Magic Initiate Spell Help

[TheOOB]

I'm playing a Life Cleric devoted to Eldath in my current campaign, and I decided to take Magic Initiate(Druid) as my first feat. I'm defiantly getting Shillelagh as one of my two cantrips, and rocking a 10 strength and 14 dex with no intent to raise either, so I need it to get a good use out of divine strike. I could use some advice/suggestions on what to take with the others. Thorn Whip or Druidcraft was my thoughts for the other cantrip, and Entangle, Longstrider, or Animal Friendship was my thought for the 1st level spell, but I'm not sure.

[SharkForce]

entangle is one of the few spells in the game that targets strength saves. i'd go with that, personally. it is also just a really impressive spell in general, as well.

[Naanomi]

entangle is one of the few spells in the game that targets strength saves. i'd go with that, personally. it is also just a really impressive spell in general, as well.
Magic Stone has a lot of potential as well to me

[Zevox]

Entangle or Animal Friendship seem flavorful for the 1st-level spell, since Eldath is a very pacifistic goddess - non-lethal ways of dealing with opponents. Entangle would be more generally useful one, but you might prefer Animal Friendship for flavor I suppose.

Similarly, Druidcraft seems an appropriate cantrip to my mind, providing a bunch of small flavorful abilities for a more nature-oriented Priest. You're already getting Shillelagh as a combat cantrip, so I don't see a huge reason to get another, personally. Although I admit I do just really like flavor cantrips in general myself, so maybe that's just me.

[Ashrym]

Frostbite from Elemental Evil is almost a duplicate of vicious mockery in effect (d6's, cold damage, CON save), or guidance and take a different cleric cantrip. I would take goodberry for the 1st-level druid spell.

[darkscizor]

I'm agreeing with Ashrym on the Goodberry spell for your 1st level. If your DM just has to keep track of rations and you players don't like carrying all that heavy food, then giving up to ten people each food for a day (and 1HP) is worth a lot. Unless I can't get it without a great expense of power as a character, I tend to aim for Goodberry as soon as possible in my games.

[Naanomi]

I'll third goodberry. Goodberry, shillelagh, magic stone is my trio for clerics

[TheOOB]

I should note, I have the outlander feature and I'm a water genasi(so I can cast creat/destroy water) and I'm trained in survival, so food/water is not an issue. Also I already confirmed with my DM, no magic stone+divine strike, so that isn't that good. I'm leaning to druidcraft and entangle.

[Giant2005]

At this point it is fairly redundant but I am going to also encourage the choice of Goodberry. As far as I am concerned, it is the only valid choice.
Even if food isn't an issue, turning all of those spare spell slots into Goodberries each night will prevent you from ever having to cast another out-of-combat healing spell.

[TheOOB]

At this point it is fairly redundant but I am going to also encourage the choice of Goodberry. As far as I am concerned, it is the only valid choice.
Even if food isn't an issue, turning all of those spare spell slots into Goodberries each night will prevent you from ever having to cast another out-of-combat healing spell.

You can only cast a spell from magic initiate once before a long rest(unless there is a ruling I am unaware of), and I'm a life cleric, Prayer of Healing heals an average of 16 hp per party member with a second level slot, and cure wounds and average of 10.5 to a single target with a first level slot. Out of combat healing is not something I lack.(I have 16 wis for the above examples).

[Giant2005]

You can only cast a spell from magic initiate once before a long rest(unless there is a ruling I am unaware of), and I'm a life cleric, Prayer of Healing heals an average of 16 hp per party member with a second level slot, and cure wounds and average of 10.5 to a single target with a first level slot. Out of combat healing is not something I lack.(I have 16 wis for the above examples).

The errata changed the ability to allow you to cast the spell with your regular spell slots. And yeah your out of combat healing is decent if you are willing to spend the spell slots on it but it is better to not have to spend the spell slots on it.

[Strill]

At this point it is fairly redundant but I am going to also encourage the choice of Goodberry. As far as I am concerned, it is the only valid choice.
Even if food isn't an issue, turning all of those spare spell slots into Goodberries each night will prevent you from ever having to cast another out-of-combat healing spell.

Goodberry is a waste. Even with the Life cleric perks, it still doesn't match up to the efficiency of Prayer of Healing.

[Giant2005]

Goodberry is a waste. Even with the Life cleric perks, it still doesn't match up to the efficiency of Prayer of Healing.

If you finish the day with 4 unspent spell slots, that is 48-120 HP of healing (Depending on how your DM rules it) you don't need to spend spell slots on the next day. You are better off healing people with yesterday's leftover spell slots than wasting some of today's.

[PoeticDwarf]

I'm playing a Life Cleric devoted to Eldath in my current campaign, and I decided to take Magic Initiate(Druid) as my first feat. I'm defiantly getting Shillelagh as one of my two cantrips, and rocking a 10 strength and 14 dex with no intent to raise either, so I need it to get a good use out of divine strike. I could use some advice/suggestions on what to take with the others. Thorn Whip or Druidcraft was my thoughts for the other cantrip, and Entangle, Longstrider, or Animal Friendship was my thought for the 1st level spell, but I'm not sure.

Animal friendship, lots of uses, maybe not the best spell, but you don't want to use your action for entangle. Animal friendship is also good for roleplaying.

You don't need druidcraft, but for roleplaying it can be good, if you don't have a real reason, thorn whip is usefull in some situations. (attacking from below for extra fall damage) But you aren't going to use that much, so my suggestion is guidance for some higher ability checks.

[Dimolyth]

I should note, I have the outlander feature and I'm a water genasi(so I can cast creat/destroy water) and I'm trained in survival, so food/water is not an issue. Also I already confirmed with my DM, no magic stone+divine strike, so that isn't that good. I'm leaning to druidcraft and entangle.

My first thought about Cleric of Eldath was Shape Water, actually, not Druidcraft. For water genasi, personally, ability to cast Shape Water is the reason of taking Magic Initiate feat.

[SharkForce]

The errata changed the ability to allow you to cast the spell with your regular spell slots. And yeah your out of combat healing is decent if you are willing to spend the spell slots on it but it is better to not have to spend the spell slots on it.

specifically, the errata changed the ability to use other spell slots to "only if you are the same class as your magic initiate feat". so, yeah, it's 1 goodberry per day now.

unless your DM doesn't use errata. but even then, i'd still prefer entangle. it is *really* good (but goodberry is also a very nice spell).

[Giant2005]

specifically, the errata changed the ability to use other spell slots to "only if you are the same class as your magic initiate feat". so, yeah, it's 1 goodberry per day now.

Have they errata'd the Errata or something? My version of the errata doesn't say anything about that.

[Zevox]

But you aren't going to use that much, so my suggestion is guidance for some higher ability checks.
Guidance he can get from his Cleric cantrips anyway. Better to use Magic Initiate on things he otherwise can't get I'd say.


My first thought about Cleric of Eldath was Shape Water, actually, not Druidcraft. For water genasi, personally, ability to cast Shape Water is the reason of taking Magic Initiate feat.
:smallconfused: Um, Water Genasi get Shape Water automatically.

[CNagy]

Have they errata'd the Errata or something? My version of the errata doesn't say anything about that.

Before the errata, there was a tweet saying that if you multiclassed into the same class that you took initiate in, you could cast that 1st level spell from your spell slots as well--effectively increasing the number of spells you know, because Spell Initiate says you "learn" the spell. This was a weird ruling because for all other magic, you can cast any spell you know from any class with any spell slots that you get from any other class.

The errata has made it a lot more simple: you learn the spell and are granted 1/day casting of it through Magic Initiate. That limit does not apply to casting the spell with your slots, so you can end up casting it multiple times per day.

[Slipperychicken]

If you finish the day with 4 unspent spell slots, that is 48-120 HP of healing (Depending on how your DM rules it) you don't need to spend spell slots on the next day. You are better off healing people with yesterday's leftover spell slots than wasting some of today's.

-If each berry is affected by life disciple, then it should heal (1 + [2*spell level]) = 3 per berry, which for ten berries is 30 hit points total.

-If life disciple only adds to one berry per spell, then it'll be 3 for one berry, and 1 for the other nine, so 12 hit points per casting.

-Prayer of Healing is a 2nd level spell. Assuming six creatures who need healing, wisdom 18, and level 4, you can use it to recover an average of 2d8+8 = 17 hit points per creature, for about 102 hit points on average.


So I guess it is sensible to save up healing with goodberry, after you're certain that party members will be topped off by the end of a long rest.

[TheOOB]

-If each berry is affected by life disciple, then it should heal (1 + [2*spell level]) = 3 per berry, which for ten berries is 30 hit points total.

-If life disciple only adds to one berry per spell, then it'll be 3 for one berry, and 1 for the other nine, so 12 hit points per casting.

-Prayer of Healing is a 2nd level spell. Assuming six creatures who need healing, wisdom 18, and level 4, you can use it to recover an average of 2d8+8 = 17 hit points per creature, for about 102 hit points on average.


So I guess it is sensible to save up healing with goodberry, after you're certain that party members will be topped off by the end of a long rest.

An aside, I could see a ruling that the Life Domain doesn't affect Goodberry(it triggers when a spell restores HP, and the spell doesn't it creates items). I could also see a ruling that each person only gets the life boost once, as it triggers when you use a spell, not each time the spell triggers.

Regardless, healing is not something I'm short on so I'm going to use that spell to expand my options not get more of what I'm already good at.

[Naanomi]

Healing is nice, especially as a way to not waste unused spellslots; but don't discount the food aspect. Locked in prison to rot? In a dungeon where survival won't get you food? Sneaking around and don't want to risk being seen foraging? Want to feed the starving refugees? Paranoid about poison in the food after angering the assassin guild? Goodberry is a good answer to all of these.

[coredump]

The errata does NOT say you can use your slots. It lessens a restriction on casting, it does not give any permission.
If you use MI to learn a Druid spell, and you also have permission to use slots for Druid spells, then you may use slots for the MI Druid spell. You only get such permission from being a Druid.
It still works just like JC explained it in Sage Advice.

[CNagy]

The errata does NOT say you can use your slots. It lessens a restriction on casting, it does not give any permission.
If you use MI to learn a Druid spell, and you also have permission to use slots for Druid spells, then you may use slots for the MI Druid spell. You only get such permission from being a Druid.
It still works just like JC explained it in Sage Advice.

Right. Spellcasting as a feature is unique to each class that gets it. So, yeah, back to 1/day for Initiate.

[Giant2005]

The errata does NOT say you can use your slots. It lessens a restriction on casting, it does not give any permission.
If you use MI to learn a Druid spell, and you also have permission to use slots for Druid spells, then you may use slots for the MI Druid spell. You only get such permission from being a Druid.
It still works just like JC explained it in Sage Advice.

You can use your spell slots to cast any spell you know. Magic Initiate adds the level 1 spell to your spells known. Even prior to the Errata you could use your spell slots to cast the spell, it was just pointless because the feat had an absolute limit of one cast per day regardless what you were using to cats it (So you may as well use the free spell slot that could only be used for that one spell).
The Errata amended the once per day limitation to applying solely to that extra spell slot. You can now cast that spell as many times as you like with regular spell slots.

[CNagy]

You can use your spell slots to cast any spell you know. Magic Initiate adds the level 1 spell to your spells known. Even prior to the Errata you could use your spell slots to cast the spell, it was just pointless because the feat had an absolute limit of one cast per day regardless what you were using to cats it (So you may as well use the free spell slot that could only be used for that one spell).
The Errata amended the once per day limitation to applying solely to that extra spell slot. You can now cast that spell as many times as you like with regular spell slots.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Spellcasting in each class only gives you the ability to prepare and cast the spells from your class list. Magic Initiate doesn't give you a slot, if it did then that would be evidence that you could prepare the spell--instead you get to cast the spell 1/long rest. The individual spellcasting classes have different wordings for their Spellcasting feature; the Cleric's Spellcasting feature, for example, specific states that you can cast Cleric spells. All Spellcasting features direct you to that class's specific spell list. Druid Spellcasting isn't going to let you cast a spell that exclusively belongs to Bards, and Magic Initiate doesn't let you prepare any spells--it lets you learn cantrips and a 1st level spell, the former which you can cast at will and the latter 1/long rest. The errata makes it clear that if you can otherwise cast that 1st level spell because it is on one of your class lists, then the feat isn't preventing you from using your slots to do so.

[coredump]

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Spellcasting in each class only gives you the ability to prepare and cast the spells from your class list. Magic Initiate doesn't give you a slot, if it did then that would be evidence that you could prepare the spell--instead you get to cast the spell 1/long rest. The individual spellcasting classes have different wordings for their Spellcasting feature; the Cleric's Spellcasting feature, for example, specific states that you can cast Cleric spells. All Spellcasting features direct you to that class's specific spell list. Druid Spellcasting isn't going to let you cast a spell that exclusively belongs to Bards, and Magic Initiate doesn't let you prepare any spells--it lets you learn cantrips and a 1st level spell, the former which you can cast at will and the latter 1/long rest. The errata makes it clear that if you can otherwise cast that 1st level spell because it is on one of your class lists, then the feat isn't preventing you from using your slots to do so.

Yep... for further clarification (or support) I suggest checking out the Sage Advice column that discusses this exact situation.