I'm looking for a Sci-Fi RPG, what do you recommend?

[SirWiffleston]

I've run mostly Superhero and Fantasy RPGs in the past, but one genre that I can't seem to find a system I like for is Sci Fi. I'm looking a system to run a soft science/space opera adventure, with the following traits:


Competent ship combat
I prefer class based to point based character creation/levelling, though this isn't a deal breaker
Preferably without a setting, or if it has one, one that is easily stripped away.
Not a universal system. I know GURPS has a dedicated fanbase that thinks it can run everything, but everytime I make a thread like this there's always someone trying to preach the GURPS gospel to me. I don't want to craft a rule set, I want to be able to take the game and run with it
Rules of middling complexity. I like having some crunch to the game, more so than something like World of Darkness or Burning Wheel. That being said, I don't want an arcane mess of tables and 10000 different subsystems, because some of my players will just not be able to wrap their heads around it.


I've tried the following games, and not been satisfied with them for varying reasons.



Star Wars Saga Edition: I liked the characters, but my groups never seem to be able to detach the system from the setting, and the rules never felt good enough
Eclipse Phase: Not a fan of the setting, not a fan of the rules.
Dark Heresy: I actually really liked playing the game, but it doesn't suite the style of game I'm after, and it would be a lot of work to strip the setting from the rules


So does anyone know of a system they'd like to recommend? Thanks for the help in advance :smallbiggrin:

[Comet]

Stars Without Number (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition). Take old school D&D, add the skill system from traveller and top the thing off with an extensive system for creating and developing an active, living sandbox world.

And it's free. There are also some supplements available, one of which is all about ship combat, I think. Definitely worth checking out, especially since you wanted a class based game.

[Anonymouswizard]

I know you said not universal, but have you considered Fate? It's narrative, so the difference between personal and vehicle combat might be which stress boxes are used (hint, it's the ships for spaceship combat) and which skills are used.

[aspekt]

Star Frontiers + Knight Hawks for Star Frontiers.

Traveller original black box system or the Mongoose Press version of the same.

[golentan]

Star Frontiers + Knight Hawks for Star Frontiers.

Traveller original black box system or the Mongoose Press version of the same.

Seconding Traveller, I prefer the Mongoose edition but the 1st edition is also good. I think the only requirement listed it doesn't hit is the Class Based: Character creation runs on guided randomness where you make decisions on what you want to pursue, but life gets in the way sometimes (you apply to join careers, for example, but if you can't find work you can choose to drift around the universe for a while or register for the draft, and sometimes disaster strikes and dumps you into play with a pension and a missing arm from when your ship took heavy fire on your third tour with the navy and it got hit by some molten steel).

[Maglubiyet]

Star Frontiers + Knight Hawks for Star Frontiers.

Wow, Star Frontiers...now there's a blast from the past! Don't remember how robust that system was, but the 80's wasn't known for its great game systems. Will have to dig that out of storage.

Traveller definitely has all the things asked for by the OP, including a well-defined premade universe.

Savages Worlds sci-fi is nice too. Crunchy but easy to learn with a bunch of tech, races, and decent rules for ship-to-ship.

[SirWiffleston]

Stars Without Number (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition). Take old school D&D, add the skill system from traveller and top the thing off with an extensive system for creating and developing an active, living sandbox world.

And it's free. There are also some supplements available, one of which is all about ship combat, I think. Definitely worth checking out, especially since you wanted a class based game.

Thanks :smallsmile:. I've been reading through the rules quickly after waking up. How important are the supplements to running the game, and which ones would you recommend?

[SirWiffleston]

Seconding Traveller, I prefer the Mongoose edition but the 1st edition is also good. I think the only requirement listed it doesn't hit is the Class Based: Character creation runs on guided randomness where you make decisions on what you want to pursue, but life gets in the way sometimes (you apply to join careers, for example, but if you can't find work you can choose to drift around the universe for a while or register for the draft, and sometimes disaster strikes and dumps you into play with a pension and a missing arm from when your ship took heavy fire on your third tour with the navy and it got hit by some molten steel).

I've been told Traveller a few times, but the randomness is character creation puts me off (I hate randomness in character generation, I like players being able to have full control, and start on an equal footing). How important/big is this to the game?
I was also told the system is extremely crunch heavy, is this the case?

[kyoryu]

I know you said not universal, but have you considered Fate? It's narrative, so the difference between personal and vehicle combat might be which stress boxes are used (hint, it's the ships for spaceship combat) and which skills are used.

He wants crunchier than Burning Wheel. So, I don't think Fate's a good candidate.

[aspekt]

http://i.imgur.com/1Ys19HY.jpg

[golentan]

I've been told Traveller a few times, but the randomness is character creation puts me off (I hate randomness in character generation, I like players being able to have full control, and start on an equal footing). How important/big is this to the game?
I was also told the system is extremely crunch heavy, is this the case?

Mongoose Traveller has an optional point buy system. But traveller default chargen is FUN, I really hope you'll at least consider it, you usually wind up with a real CHARACTER, you know? And the balance point is that the limits of the human condition actually remain limits: An inexperienced pilot will get you on the ground slower, but they'll get you there Nine-hundred and Ninety Nine times out of a Thousand, and by the thousandth they're probably not an inexperienced pilot anyway. Sure, using the point buy system you can have people start with the same number of numbers on their paper, but watching firefly do people believe that Simon is balanced with River, and would him being "balanced" make him any more or less important to the plot?

Also, almost all of the crunch is optional. Core mechanic is 2d6 + Ability Modifier (should be pretty familiar to anyone who knows DnD, though the range of bonuses is different) + Skill Rating, try to beat 8. Difficulty assigned by the Referee. Piloting a starship? 2d6 + Skill, beat 8. Hacking into a computer? Beat 8. Punching a guy in the face? STILL BEAT 8. Though there he can modify the difficulty by trying to parry. Still, as is true for real life, it's just not possible for a human being to parry a bullet... So cover and Armor and being the first guy to start shooting is important.

Then, yeah, there are tables that tell you how far you can go in a given time. It's pretty easy though, you find your ship's speed (1-6 gravities, integers only), you find the rough distance... And you read off how many hours it takes to fly there in normal circumstances.

It only gets complicated when you're building something complex, like a custom starship (which they provide quite a few standard designs which should be sufficient for any party) or rolling up a planet or something (but even then it's step by step), or if you start including the optional subsystems outside of the core book. Once the prep is done, it's usually good for many many sessions, often the whole campaign, though, and play runs smooth and fast in my experience.

[Telok]

Well the common misrepresentation of Traveller is the lol-random death during char gen. It turns out that's an option the player can choose.

I found Traveller characters surprisingly balanced and quite interesting. The more skilled characters are also generally older and physically less robust. You don't absolutely have a weapon skill to contribute in combat (building combat robots, directing trained animals, and a mining laser mounted on an electric wheelchair are things I've seen) although you may want to implement damage control duties during spaceship combat and limit what JOAT 5 means.

You can get a crummy character out of the system but the rules never say that you have to keep characters or play the first one you roll up. Plus the rules are simple enough that a hobbyist programmer, scripter, or spreadsheet expert can automate them in less than a day.

[hifidelity2]

How about SpaceMaster - its basically rolemaster in space - OK lots of tables that need to be consulted but then I just print them and hand them out
It has a supplement - StarStrike for ship combat

[Anonymouswizard]

How about SpaceMaster - its basically rolemaster in space - OK lots of tables that need to be consulted but then I just print them and hand them out
It has a supplement - StarStrike for ship combat

I nearly got to play that, but the maths-phobic (and writing-phobic, as well as back story phobic) player put his foot down and refused to play anything that complex. Or which did not revolve around killing. He ended up running the worst zombie game I ever played, but it was science fiction because the (never revealed in-game, despite investigating this being the concept I gave for my character) origin for the zombies with magical powers was UFOs!

But yeah, if you love your basic maths, Space Master is a decent bet. It is more complex than GURPS though (which only gets complex if you want a decent magic system :smallsigh:). I believe GURPS just needs 3/4 books to do Space Opera now, but unless you like the system just go for Stars without number, Traveller (the latest edition is pure rules, but very dense, I got GURPS because it was just easier to understand everything), or even Space Master.

Mutants and Masterminds could do everything if you treated spaceships as characters, but it would be a very different feel.

-Anonymouswizard finally giving some decent input.

[Maglubiyet]

After looking at your system requirements again (sorry, I thought you wanted prefab setting), let me recommend Savage Worlds again.

The Savage Worlds Science Fiction Companion plus the core rules give you everything you need to play a solid space opera RPG. You could even do it fine with just the core rules, but the Companion will save you some work.

[Digitalelf]

You might try Alternity. The system is pretty generic, and even though the sourcebooks have the "Star*Drive" logo on them (which is a pretty generic sci-fi setting), the setting stuff can be striped away with no problems.

You can find the quick star rules on PDF HERE (http://www.alternityrpg.net/downloads.php) for free.

[Comet]

Thanks :smallsmile:. I've been reading through the rules quickly after waking up. How important are the supplements to running the game, and which ones would you recommend?

The supplements aren't required at all, the core game should have everything you need. If you like spaceship combat, though, Skyward Steel (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/88169/Skyward-Steel-Naval-Campaigns-for-Stars-Without-Number?manufacturers_id=3482) might be interesting to look at. It's all about running a naval campaign with ship-to-ship combat galore.

[Knaight]

Rules of middling complexity. I like having some crunch to the game, more so than something like World of Darkness or Burning Wheel. That being said, I don't want an arcane mess of tables and 10000 different subsystems, because some of my players will just not be able to wrap their heads around it.

I'm going to guess that if you have played Burning Wheel, it's without the heavier rules, as the crunch level is really, really high in that game- certainly nowhere near WoD. Nothing you listed comes close, and if you embrace the crunch, you might like something Burning Wheel styled.

This is nice, because there's a game called Burning Empires, which is basically an application of Burning Wheel style mechanics to a setting along the lines of Dune. It's also a bit crunchier, which should work for you.

[Eisenheim]

I feel like some of your listed desires are working against each other here. Most of the systems I know that have an easily removed settings are universal systems, or attempt to be.

I have two recommendations, depending on what you mean by crunch.

Fate, which has several space-based iterations to look at for specialized rules, is low on math, but I don;t think of it as low on crunch. It doesn't have a lot of different subsystems, but the ones it has work very well for a variety of things, and it can be easily modified for your own preferences. Bulldogs is a space adventure fate game from an earlier, crunchier version of fate, so that might be a good fit.

Cortex Plus is the system used for the firefly and BSG roleplaying games, but I think there is a generic version out as well. It's good, though I find it a bit swingy, and it certainly does have some detailed space combat available in those iterations.

[Mutazoia]

A good go-to for me has always been the Star Wars D6 rule set (they re-released it as a generic rule set al-la GURPS. Same rules, just stripped out the Star Wars references and added some fantasy rules to boot.) It's quick and easy to learn, easy to run, and with the Star Warriors game (can be played as a separate ship combat game, or used in conjunction with the regular RPG rules), you can get some pretty awesome ship combat, from dog fights to large scale fleet actions. (The Star Warriors game even has a pretty nasty set up for dog fighting in an asteroid field.)

[Saladman]

Stars Without Number (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition). Take old school D&D, add the skill system from traveller and top the thing off with an extensive system for creating and developing an active, living sandbox world.

That was my first thought on reading the OP. Traveller is my own personal favorite, because I don't care for classes in my sci fi and I do like the semi-random option in Traveller, but Stars Without Number is a very well executed game. The back end of SWN draws on Traveller anyway, but with the advantage of having learned from Trav, so if anything it's more streamlined about getting to the same point.


Thanks :smallsmile:. I've been reading through the rules quickly after waking up. How important are the supplements to running the game, and which ones would you recommend?

I think what's more useful than getting all the supplements is sitting down with the core book and going through Crawford's system with tags for setting up a sandbox. The back end GM tools are where Crawford really shines - and that's not knocking his base games either, it's just the GM section is really good.


How about SpaceMaster - its basically rolemaster in space - OK lots of tables that need to be consulted but then I just print them and hand them out
It has a supplement - StarStrike for ship combat

I've got that box floating around somewhere. I've never gotten to play or run it, and I'd actually like to. :smallannoyed:

I know when I played Rolemaster, it played surprisingly fast and light. And I mean not just "fast for Chartmaster ha ha" but actually objectively fast compared to other rpgs. But that was under a GM who had the system down cold, who did the same thing you did handing out copies of charts (at least for our weapon and crit charts), and who primarily used the generic moving and static maneuver charts rather than looking up the custom ones most of the time. But I can imagine *master games going a lot slower if everyone there is new to the system, which may be the case here.

[JellyPooga]

I'm going to put my oar in for (Mongoose) Traveller as well here; it seems to me to be what you're looking for.

My first instinct was to suggest GURPS (it does Sci-Fi extremely well) or FATE (which does anything well), but both fail your criteria.

Traveller, though; it has a simple enough system that those who struggle with system-mastery can just roll with it and get something fun, but also enough gaming-the-system for those who enjoy power-play or optimisation to get a kick out of exploring all the options. The Third Imperium setting is pretty much laid out for you on a platter and there are more than enough splat books, if you want them, to go to town on particular aspects of the game. In addition, it's such an open-ended game that you can play anything from a gritty dirt-side-army combat-fest to a socialite space opera and everything in between, including (but not limited to) android slave rebellions, cyberpunk/shadowrun, Firefly-esque "classic Traveller" games, Star Trek "exploration" games and so on and so forth.

The random nature of character creation can easily be mitigated with houserules like "roll twice, pick what you want", "roll the dice, then choose the table", "roll the dice, then pick which is the tens die and which is the ones die", "you've got X re-rolls for char gen" and so forth.

Even going with the standard "almost completely random" char-gen, though; I've found that it's very rare for a player to be unhappy with their character...it might not be the character they wanted at the start, but inevitably the story-like (and hazardous) process produces something that they feel like they've earned and can identify with, often even more-so than the character they first envisaged!

[thirdkingdom]

I'll throw out another recommendation for SWN. The basic book is free (http://http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition). I'm in an excellent and long running SWN pbp game (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?698159-Stars-Without-Number-Back-in-Black) over on rpg.net, if you want to get a feel for the game, although you'll have to be logged in to view it.

[aspekt]

The West End Games (WEG) d6 system mentioned predates even their own Star Wars game I believe. It almost seems they created d6 as kind of a response to GURPS.

It's light but crunchy in all the right places for a skill based game. Your character can literally perform any action in the game if you want. They just won't be good at every action in the game.

The ability to grab a speeder bike, with no direct experience driving one, while running from the law or the bad guys, or both, and, most importantly by RAW, have an actual chance to pull it off, makes the game more easily cinematic without surrendering your dice for your narrative, or vice versa.

[Dizlag]

I've been enjoying Fantasy Flight's Star Wars RPG for Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion. Force and Destiny will be coming out soon, but tonight I will be running the Force and Destiny Beginner's Box adventure for my group. I've used this system seamlessly to run Savage World's Slipstream campaign setting with a Firefly class ship from the Serenity RPG. =)

And from your list (your text in italics)...


Competent ship combat - Yes, very fun ship combat and we've actually fused the X-Wing miniature's game rules into this system as well
I prefer class based to point based character creation/levelling, though this isn't a deal breaker - You choose a race, a class, and a specialization for that class giving you a "Talent Tree" for passive and active bonuses/abilities. You spend your XP to buy up better skills and talents as you earn it. Very slick.
Preferably without a setting, or if it has one, one that is easily stripped away. - Yes, it's Star Wars but that can be easily stripped away and reskinned as I've done it with my Slipstream/Firefly homebrew
Not a universal system. - This system is not universal as it was built with Star Wars in mind.
Rules of middling complexity. - The narrative dice system seems a bit complex at first, but once you've created a few dice pools and figured out the results, it is very elegant way to cooperatively tell a great story. When they've added on new rules with supplements, DM kit, etc, the new "rules" have effortlessly been adapted.


I really can't say enough about this system. It's become my new favorite and every time I play it, I enjoy it more and more.

Enjoy!

Dizlag

[neonchameleon]

Cortex Plus is the system used for the firefly and BSG roleplaying games, but I think there is a generic version out as well. It's good, though I find it a bit swingy, and it certainly does have some detailed space combat available in those iterations.

Just to (de)clarify. The BSG RPG and the original Serenity RPG were produced using the Cortex system - which is a pretty trad and rules-medium RPG. And just on aesthetic grounds I dislike any system that has a possible stat value of d12+d2.

Firefly uses Cortex Plus. It's fast, it's swingy, its evocative, it has space combat, and everything is going to go gloriously and spectacularly wrong. If you want a game that can go anywhere from Firefly to Ghost Busters it's great - but if you want something dead serious and gritty with character death find something else. (The setting is pretty easy to strip out).