Preventing the teleportation function of wish

[Darkweave31]

Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

So this is a rather potent function of wish assuming you can easily beat the will and SR of the target. Doesn't matter where they are, dead magic plane or otherwise, they are uprooted and placed wherever you want.

What are some ways of countering this?

Some I've thought of:

Shapechange, or otherwise, into a golem with magic immunity. Since wish is SR: yes, you are now immune, unless they can remove the SR with supernatural spell or something...

Psionic Elder Brain simulacra with the divert teleport power to redirect you back to your current location.

This won't work, since wish doesn't belong to the Teleportation subschool/subdiscipline.

Craft contingent spell wish to wish you back from wherever you were wished.

Sanctuary with a high enough DC to reliably beat the caster's will.

Spellblade (I think that's what it was called) keyed to wish... maybe?

[Kraken]

Always making sure you'll be able to get away is a start. Shapechange has various forms that will simply allow you to plane shift away on your next action. A more desperate option would be invoke magic -> dimension door -> celerity -> plane shift. Alternatively, some domains give dismissal as a 4th level spell, so you could possibly ue dismissal with invoke magic instead.

[Bronk]

Always making sure you'll be able to get away is a start. Shapechange has various forms that will simply allow you to plane shift away on your next action. A more desperate option would be invoke magic -> dimension door -> celerity -> plane shift. Alternatively, some domains give dismissal as a 4th level spell, so you could possibly ue dismissal with invoke magic instead.

I'm not sure... the wisher could dimensional lock the area. They would be able to wish you in despite local conditions, and you wouldn't be able to get out without using a wish yourself.

[Werephilosopher]

If epic magic is available to you, then wish is probably the least of your worries you can devise an epic spell that makes you immune to wish and specifically doesn't count as a "local condition."


Psionic Elder Brain simulacra with the divert teleport power to redirect you back to your current location.

This won't work, since wish doesn't belong to the Teleportation subschool/subdiscipline.


Craft contingent spell wish to wish you back from wherever you were wished.

This is probably the most feasible option.

[Rubik]

Immunity to Wish via spell blade would likely be the cheapest. Add it to a poison ring if you want something you can keep on your person at all times without being too bothersome -- a spell bladed longsword is all fine and good, but it's hard to keep equipped while at a fashionable soiree or during a bath, after all.

[Psyren]

Immunity to magic works like unbeatable SR. Since SR explicitly applies to the transport travelers use of Wish, you'll be unable to beat that target's SR and it will fail.

[Rubik]

Immunity to magic works like unbeatable SR. Since SR explicitly applies to the transport travelers use of Wish, you'll be unable to beat that target's SR and it will fail.That leaves (Su) and (Ex) forms of Wish, such as those granted by genies, psionic characters with Supernatural Transformation (Psionics), and Ravenloft's devices.

Unfortunately, Contingent Wishes set for counterspelling don't work on those, either.

[Psyren]

Actually, genies' wishes are spell-like, and so will be subject to immunity as well. The only real source of Su Wish is Zodars, which is why Tippy relies on them so heavily (and which are 3.0 anyway and so require "minor adjustments" to make it to 3.5 intact; replacing the "u" in Su with a "p" could count as minor.)

Su Psionics relies on a very dubious reading of the word "innate" to function and Devices are third-party, so I don't really see a need to counter them.

[Rubik]

Actually, genies' wishes are spell-like, and so will be subject to immunity as well. The only real source of Su Wish is Zodars, which is why Tippy relies on them so heavily (and which are 3.0 anyway and so require "minor adjustments" to make it to 3.5 intact; replacing the "u" in Su with a "p" could count as minor.)You're right about genies. Oops.


Su Psionics relies on a very dubious reading of the word "innate" to functionIt requires reading the passage in the rules that explicitly calls psionics "innate." There's no dubiousness about it, unless you consider "some spells and powers have XP costs" or "dragons are of the Dragon type" to also be "dubious."

[Story]

The only real source of Su Wish is Zodars, which is why Tippy relies on them so heavily .

There are other ways. For example, Dweomercheater.

[Psyren]

It requires a literal reading of the passage in the rules that explicitly calls psionics "innate." There's no dubiousness about it, unless you consider "some spells and powers have XP costs" or "dragons are of the Dragon type" to also be "dubious."

Do you mean this passage...


Creatures with psionic powers generally emulate the manifesting ability of a particular psionic class. When such a creature takes levels in that same class, it can stack its innate psionic powers and its class power progression together.

...which states a clear separation between "innate psionic powers" and "class power progression," implying that psionics from your class are not innate?

So Su Psionics are fine if you can find a creature that gets Reality Revision from its race and not its class - but only for that creature.

[Rubik]

Do you mean this passage...

...which states a clear separation between "innate psionic powers" and "class power progression," implying that psionics from your class are not innate?

So Su Psionics are fine if you can find a creature that gets Reality Revision from its race and not its class - but only for that creature.You mean the "clear separation" that says that all psionics is innate?


A psionic character is blessed with a form of innate ability that enables him or her to use mental power to achieve goals or perform tasks that nonpsionic characters can accomplish—if they’re even capable of doing them at all—only by using gross physical skills such as brute strength or raw agility, or by using intellect or force of will distinct from the natural power of the mind itself.

[Psyren]

You mean the "clear separation" that says that all psionics is innate?

Putting the fact that your quote is flavor-text aside, "a form of innate ability" is hardly the same as saying "all psionic powers from your class progression are innate."

[Darkweave31]

This won't work, since wish doesn't belong to the Teleportation subschool/subdiscipline.


Good catch, striking it out.



As for the innate psionics argument, I know there have been a lot of debates about it before, but for the purpose of this thread I think it's enough to say that there are several ways to get supernatural wish to bypass a golem's magic immunity... For that matter possibly spellblade too since I think it specifies spell and not supernatural ability. Let's keep it on track.

[ShurikVch]

Wish teleportation allow a Will save; use the Moment of Perfect Mind :smallwink:

[Zombimode]

Wish teleportation allow a Will save; use the Moment of Perfect Mind :smallwink:

While that can work, keep in mind that Moment of Perfect Mind requires a immediate action and there are restrictions on how and when you can use those. Ie. you normally can't use MoPM while flat-footed.

[nedz]

You can simply undo this with another Wish.

[ShurikVch]

Ie. you normally can't use MoPM while flat-footed.Uncanny Dodge, Mark of Stars, Natural Cunning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm), Foresight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm)

[Vaz]

If epic magic is available to you, then wish is probably the least of your worries you can devise an epic spell that makes you immune to wish and specifically doesn't count as a "local condition."


What spell seeds allow that?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Uncanny Dodge, Mark of Stars, Natural Cunning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm), Foresight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm)The flat-footed issue is less troublesome than the use limitations. You get one immediate action per round, and you have to recover MoPM after using it. Better to pump your will save to the stratosphere and nab the Pride domain (and other luck abilities if you're feeling especially paranoid about your dice).

[Chronos]

If you can manage to be a swarm somehow, this is one of the many immunities it gives you. Swarms are immune to any effect that targets a set number of creatures, and Wish targets one creature/level.

[Darrin]

Weirdstone (PGtF p. 124) prevents all teleportation within a 6-mile radius, including wishes. It's one of the few ways to shut down part of the teleportation network in a Tippyverse.

[Psyren]

Weirdstone (PGtF p. 124) prevents all teleportation within a 6-mile radius, including wishes. It's one of the few ways to shut down part of the teleportation network in a Tippyverse.

It says it blocks "conjuration (teleportation)" spells, but I don't see anything about it stopping Wish's Transport Travelers (which lacks both of those descriptors.)

[Rubik]

If you can manage to be a swarm somehow, this is one of the many immunities it gives you. Swarms are immune to any effect that targets a set number of creatures, and Wish targets one creature/level.Does that include buffing effects? Because that would be bad. Morphing into a swarm as needed would be better, but it'd be difficult to do so reactively to a Wish.

Nabbing spell immunity through other means (such as that of a golem or helmed horror) would grant you immunity to regular Wish, though not Supernatural or Extraordinary Wishes.

[Darkweave31]

Does that include buffing effects? Because that would be bad. Morphing into a swarm as needed would be better, but it'd be difficult to do so reactively to a Wish.

Nabbing spell immunity through other means (such as that of a golem or helmed horror) would grant you immunity to regular Wish, though not Supernatural or Extraordinary Wishes.

Contingent shapechange into a swarm could work then, right?

[Zombimode]

Uncanny Dodge, Mark of Stars, Natural Cunning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm), Foresight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm)

Uncanny Dodge just lets you retain your Dex and Dodge bonuses to AC while flat-footed, it doesn't remove any other effects of the flat-footed condition. So this won't help.

I'm not familiar with Mark of the Stars, the other two options work, of course. Please note that I didn't said "MoPM is useless!". Instead I pointed out issues in using MoPM is this context. Issues that can be overcome, but issues nontheless.

[Werephilosopher]

What spell seeds allow that?

Ward and Mythal both allow protection against specific spells. Specifically disregarding the epic spell as a "local condition" would require an ad hoc adjustment, of course.

[ShurikVch]

I'm not familiar with Mark of the StarsIt's a feat from Dragonmarked, which make you immune to be "surprised or flat-footed"; required Siberys dragonmark

Please note that I didn't said "MoPM is useless!". Instead I pointed out issues in using MoPM is this context. Issues that can be overcome, but issues nontheless.True.

[Jack_Simth]

So this is a rather potent function of wish assuming you can easily beat the will and SR of the target.Big assumption, but ignoring that...

Doesn't matter where they are, dead magic plane or otherwise, they are uprooted and placed wherever you want.

What are some ways of countering this?

Some I've thought of:

Shapechange, or otherwise, into a golem with magic immunity. Since wish is SR: yes, you are now immune, unless they can remove the SR with supernatural spell or something...

Psionic Elder Brain simulacra with the divert teleport power to redirect you back to your current location.


Craft contingent spell wish to wish you back from wherever you were wished.

Problem: Wherever you end up, it's still required that the wish be capable of firing when you're there. So if you're Wished into a dead magic zone, you're Crafted Contingency can't fire once you are there, and if it fires before you are there it doesn't matter, as you're just yanked away from wherever the contingent Wish put you to where your adversary chose.

The way to pull this off is a Wish-capable creature with a Contingent Celerity. Make an Ice Assasin of a Solar (or a Simulacrum of a heavily-advanced Solar), use polymorph any object to turn it into something that looks like a familiar, Craft the contingent spell for a Celerity on the fake Solar keyed for if you vanish without casting a spell, and have the fake Solar have standing orders that it Wish you to the fake Solar's location if the contingent spell goes off.


Sanctuary with a high enough DC to reliably beat the caster's will.

Spellblade (I think that's what it was called) keyed to wish... maybe?
Arguably, yes. Arguably, no.

[Segev]

Craft Contingent Greater Teleport back to your sanctuary if you're Wished somewhere.
Craft Contingent Mage's Disjunction centered on you if the above fails for any reason.
Use the Tinfoil Hat trick to make sure you're not Wished into an AMF.
If the disjunction goes off, get out of there with a teleport immediately. Its purpose was to ensure that any magics designed to kill, maim, mutiliate, imprison, trap, impede, or soulbind you are crushed, leaving you free to do so. If necessary, use celerity to ensure that you can act in the instant the disjunction finishes so that any environmental harm is prevented from being done to you before you get out of there.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Uncanny Dodge just lets you retain your Dex and Dodge bonuses to AC while flat-footed, it doesn't remove any other effects of the flat-footed condition. So this won't help.

I'm not familiar with Mark of the Stars, the other two options work, of course. Please note that I didn't said "MoPM is useless!". Instead I pointed out issues in using MoPM is this context. Issues that can be overcome, but issues nontheless.If you somehow have the Scout's version of Uncanny Dodge, it prevents the flat-footed condition entirely. Of course, this is not the Uncanny Dodge you can acquire via the Primal [X] line of spells, so it either requires dipping Scout 2 or some higher-order shenanigans.

[ben-zayb]

If you can manage to be a swarm somehow, this is one of the many immunities it gives you. Swarms are immune to any effect that targets a set number of creatures, and Wish targets one creature/level.
Yeah, I've been in this situation just days ago while shapechanged as a deathraven swarm. Fortunately, shapechange can easily change forms once a round.