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Sandrock
2007-04-28, 09:24 AM
Since the start of comic 443 to 445 I seen most of the comments about reactions to Roy's death. My view of comic 445... ya nice song, lovely, brought tears to my eyes and was nice to see everyone else in the middle of the battle.

Away from the bard/Sword-Guybrush class, the Rouge, and the Cleric...to Belkar.

:vaarsuvius: Is it just me or did a lot of people expected for Belkar to go all "GOD! I can't believe I didn't kill him?" When Roy fell down onto the ground and died? it just seemed to me that a lot of the forum goers just expected him to be a jerk and ether stab him in the head and complain that he didn't get the XP that Roy had. I mean...reading the Comic's forum...I found not ONE person that put down that Belkar would be sad...not...ONE. The best I could see was a close up to Belkar crying then out with him yelling he didn't get to kill Roy. Which in fact makes me sad and probity would have made Elan sad as well.

Yes he is Chaotic Evil. While I don't play DnD let me look at this by my view point. Chaotic Evil...Chaotic...Chaos? Is he evil just to cause problems for everyone? But ya what ever...Wiki - "These characters will commit any act to further their own ends bla bla Most prefer to work alone bla bla delusional murderer who kills in a vain attempt..." ya I get it. But Belkar has been...non-Chaotic Evil for a few things.

I mean he liked a person of non-Lawful/Chaotic Good quality's (Lord Shojo). He gets along with Elan when he's not annoyed by having the needed XP to level up or when Elan makes a joke probity at the expense of Roy.

Okay ya...the whole little dragon class thing Oracle said he will cause the death of one of the fallowing. Miko Miyazaki, Miko's "stupid horse" (Windstriker), Vaarsuvius, Roy or the Oracle himself. So if all but one died your probly gonna say "gasp _____ is gonna be killed by Belkar...anyway here...just read my score card on these targets.

Miko Miyazaki - while not killed...she lost her class...right now if I remember she has a few skills in Monk and one other class.
Windstriker - While not dead....Miko can no longer summon it in her current class's. But..its gone...maybe for good.
V - Not dead, not close, and well alive.
Roy - um....ya the ring of jumping 20+ thing...it did cause the death of him getting to the litch guy. Doseint cause of death have a round limit? I think they went like 10+ rounds before Roy died...so it could have counted. I was more expecting a stright out kill but it fits the bill. [this part of the post has been edited since I though he asked who he would kill...not cause the death.]
Oracle - Alive...we guess.

Also lets be reminded that the Oracle was said to be tricky by Roy. In other words all Belkar could kill is someone named Oracle or an other person named Roy and so forth. Thus he did kill that name...but was the Oracle nice to him or as evil as Oracles can be?

Just short...Belkar can be Sepharoth Vordamort Evil for all I care and still be sad by Roy's death since they hanged around for a long time. "Ya sure I was gonna bump him off...but...sniff...I'm not complaining I didn't do it...I miss Roy..." miss for not able to make fun of him or for an other reason yes...but for not killing him...no. Proof in comic 445 is this. He stops on top of his pile of dead hobgoblins, faces Elan when he sings. Yes he killed that class hobgoblin, but did he look like this :furious:+ :amused:. No...he was this :frown:. Since when dose he ever kill with a frown. A kick to a already dead body yes...but never a sad frown.

I rest my case.

jindra34
2007-04-28, 09:38 AM
Not kill, cause the death of... and we are NOT discussing the word cause!

Sandrock
2007-04-28, 09:44 AM
...well shoot. just shows how much IQ points I got. Hmmm...well away from that point...double shoot.

EvilElitest
2007-04-28, 09:46 AM
That was a pretty rambling speech right there, what is your point?
from,
EE

Sandrock
2007-04-28, 09:49 AM
Short - Belkar is evil, ya. But dose everyone really expect him to be mad at one of his team mates death just because he didn't cause it. It's really a bit of a rant and I went a little too V into it I think.

mikeejimbo
2007-04-28, 09:49 AM
Even Chaotic Evil people can have friends and feel sad when they die.

And just because they're your friends and you'd feel sad when they die, doesn't mean that sometimes you feel like killing them anyway.

factotum
2007-04-28, 11:54 AM
Even Chaotic Evil people can have friends and feel sad when they die.

And just because they're your friends and you'd feel sad when they die, doesn't mean that sometimes you feel like killing them anyway.

You don't even need to be Chaotic or Evil to consider killing your friends--I bet Roy has considered killing Elan on more than one occasion! You're just a bit more likely to give in to those urges when you're CE.

Gaelbert
2007-04-28, 01:27 PM
Despite the fact that Belkar and Roy have been together for a long time, Roy is also the meatshield and has led the party to treasure and XP. Belkar should be upset for losing such a valuable resource.

EvilElitest
2007-04-30, 11:37 AM
Short - Belkar is evil, ya. But dose everyone really expect him to be mad at one of his team mates death just because he didn't cause it. It's really a bit of a rant and I went a little too V into it I think.

that makes sense
from,
EE

SteveMB
2007-04-30, 11:40 AM
Windstriker - While not dead....Miko can no longer summon it in her current class's. But..its gone...maybe for good.
So she has to find another horse. Perhaps even a notably stupid one....

That said, I think Roy's death satisfies the prophecy.

Pronounceable
2007-04-30, 12:20 PM
I think that's because of Elan's song. He's a rather high level bard, I'm sure he can magically inspire sadness. Belkar has a bad will save, but Elan probably got some hefty bonus on his perform check.

I really don't think Belkar would in any way be unhappy about Roy's (or anyone's for that matter) death.

Rai Thunder
2007-04-30, 12:38 PM
Roy was the closest thing to a friend that Belkar had.

Enough said.

Lizard Lord
2007-04-30, 01:10 PM
Roy was the closest thing to a friend that Belkar had.

Enough said.

I thought that was Elan.

They would team up to tease Roy, and Belkar agreed to save Elan from the bandits because he "made him laugh". (At least that was one the reasons.) Not to mention he seemed angry when he realized Nale had secretly replaced Elan.

Rai Thunder
2007-04-30, 06:03 PM
I thought that was Elan.

They would team up to tease Roy, and Belkar agreed to save Elan from the bandits because he "made him laugh". (At least that was one the reasons.) Not to mention he seemed angry when he realized Nale had secretly replaced Elan.

It's a fair point that Belkar enjoyed Elan's company from time to time, but had little respect for him. However, Roy has taken responsibility for him, and even tried to get him set free.

Brickman
2007-04-30, 09:15 PM
I predicted Belkar would be upset about Roy's death in a sense besides "I didn't get to stick in the knife." I mean, Belkar may redefine chaotic, but he followed Roy around, obeyed his orders, and appeared to respect him, before and after the mark. Roy did plenty of nice things for him and stood up for him (he got him out of jail for that murder twice and stood up to Miko repeatedly, among other things), and if Belkar hadn't felt some attachment to him there's no reason he couldn't have just stabbed them in their sleep and run off with all their gold until the mark was added. Belkar liked Roy, and while he may try to not admit/show it to his fellow party members (in the same way that Haley put on an act of being more greedy than she was--though I don't understand how making yourself look more extremist gains you respect from friends who aren't), I know/knew he'd be upset.

brian c
2007-04-30, 09:22 PM
I thought that was Elan.

They would team up to tease Roy, and Belkar agreed to save Elan from the bandits because he "made him laugh". (At least that was one the reasons.) Not to mention he seemed angry when he realized Nale had secretly replaced Elan.

Well, I think Belkar is smart enough to realize that Nale wanted to kill all of the OOTS, including Belkar himself. He was mad because Nale would have killed him, not out of any particular feelings for Elan.

Elliot Kane
2007-04-30, 09:26 PM
It's Elan's song that Belkar is reacting to. We don't have the faintest idea yet how he'll react to the actual death itself if at all.

wootdavid
2007-04-30, 09:47 PM
I would have to agree that technically Belkar caused Roy's death by giving him the ring of jumping.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-01, 07:28 AM
Even the Hobgoblins were sad at Elan's song... Maybe Elan is secretely a Dirgesinger... no... wait...

Belkar is sad but then he copes with his sadness by killing a goblin. He might be sad at the loss of a comrade but he's sad in a CE manner.

Snake-Aes
2007-05-01, 07:43 AM
I would have to agree that technically Belkar caused Roy's death by giving him the ring of jumping.
Specially added the fact he gave him the ring out of a bet

Baalzebub
2007-05-01, 08:01 AM
I would have to agree that technically Belkar caused Roy's death by giving him the ring of jumping.

Yeah, maybe that's why Belkar reacted like that.

SteveMB
2007-05-02, 07:47 AM
Belkar liked Roy, and while he may try to not admit/show it to his fellow party members (in the same way that Haley put on an act of being more greedy than she was--though I don't understand how making yourself look more extremist gains you respect from friends who aren't), I know/knew he'd be upset.
True; at the very least Belkar seems to have decided that he's better off sticking with the OotS.

(As for the Haley thing, I think she's covering for the fact that she's trying to raise her dad's ransom because her trust issues prevent her from letting the rest of the party know about that.)

holywhippet
2007-05-02, 11:53 PM
I think Belkar's selfishness is mostly in terms of short term goals. He doesn't seem to have much interest in things past immediate gratification. Booze, hookers and killing things are his only real interests. He gets along with Elan and with Shojo because he like the chaotic type things they do. Belkar basically explains his motivations in this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0212.html

He was no long terms plans or particular thoughts about good vs. evil, he just does whatever he feels like at the time.

Silverlocke980
2007-05-04, 02:56 AM
I think that Belkar just doesn't care. He didn't get to kill Roy- which doesn't mean he doesn't have a whole list of other people he can still kill.

Starting with all the hobgoblins near him. Sexy shoeless god of war!