How would you stat Vulcans in 3.5?

[gadren]

In my 3.5 campaign, there is quite a bit of interplanar visitors.
There is one NPC that most assume is an oddly-behaved half-elf, but is in fact a Vulcan from the Star Trek universe.

Which raises the question, how would you stat a Vulcan with 3.5/PF mechanics?

They appear to be stronger and hardier than humans, and more intelligent. The obviously seem to suffer in the charisma department.

Thoughts?

[atemu1234]

If I recall correctly, a race in Expanded Psionics Handbook was inspired at least in part by them.

[gadren]

It's somewhat similar, but doesn't really reflect a Vulcan.

[Saintheart]

I don't know how you'd stat them out exactly, but they'll have at least bonuses to INT and STR, minuses to CHA, and some sort of Stunning Fist attack which can be resolved as a melee touch attack and which will cost them an absurd amount of Level Adjustment to have :smallbiggrin:

[SowZ]

They're triple the strength of humans. I remember in a TOS episode, I think it took six crewman to tackle Spock. They are significantly stronger than Klingons and Humans. Honestly, it should realistically be something huge like +8. +10 if we use lifting as a metric, but I can live with +8. Anything less is not doing them justice for balance reasons. Even an average Vulcan seems to have nearly superhuman levels of strength. They could lift you with one hand easily and toss you. Spock can take a sturdy metal canister and crush it easily and it is supposed to be quite a feat. They have ludicrous strength, attributed in part to Vulcan's intense gravity.

The Vulcan metabolism seems better able to mediate wounds, but other than that they don't seem bigger or particularly more resilient. I wouldn't give big Con bonus, +2, but they are more survivable so maybe succeeds on a 16 or higher on Stabilization checks, (which seems odd that they survive wounds a bit better seeing as they have ridiculously high blood pressure but whatever,) and they deserve a +2 Fort Save vs. Poison and Heat.

Vulcans have good coordination and incredible reflexes, so +2 Dexterity and Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat seems appropriate.

They would probably get a decent Will save bonus due to their emotional control and psychic ability/their zen-like nature. I'd say +4. This should maybe apply to mind-effecting only.

There is some natural Psionics stuff going on for sure. But it seems specific applications have to be learned, it is not automatic and takes some time to master all the various disciplines, so Wild Talent as a bonus feat covers this.

A Vulcan has a very sharp memory and natural abilities at meditation, so +5 to Autohypnosis makes sense. The senses of a Vulcan are also unmatched, especially hearing, so +2 Spot and +4 Hearing makes sense.

+2 Wisdom from all their zen-ness and situational awareness.

Vulcan's can go very long periods without food or water or sleep and can digest most foods without trouble. They can go longer without breathing, too, and require less Oxygen in general.

Drugs shouldn't work on Vulcans or else have a reduced effect. Another symptom of ridiculous metabolism, (which should mean they require more food, especially considering how much energy this super being should require, but whatever.)

Society on Vulcan emphasizes logic and knowledge a lot, and sharp memory allows for memory retainage, but there is little evidence that Vulcan's are significantly smarter in raw intellect. Vulcan genius and Human genius are about on par. And once Human and Vulcan technology reached the same level after First Contact, Human tech seemed to advance a little faster. I honestly wouldn't give more than a +2 Int, maybe +4, and a +2 bonus on all knowledge skills to represent intense and well rounded schooling.

They are super off putting and intentionally suppress their own identity. Vulcans are not only unsociable, they are trained not to value their own ego and sense of self. Typically less creative for art, but with glaring exceptions. -4 Charisma is appropriate.

Stunning Fist can easily be refluffed as the Nerve Pinch and given as a bonus feat. If the Vulcan gains the Stunning Fist feat, instead of gaining the benefits of Stunning Fist, +2 to the DC of Nerve Pinch. Treat Nerve Pinch as Stunning Fist for all feats or abilities that synergize with Stunning Fist. When using Nerve Pinch against an opponent that would be vulnerable to your Sneak Attack, (whether or not you have Sneak Attack,) treat the DC as +2.

-5 to bluff checks as Vulcans really, really hate lying.

Now, as for LA, do you want what I think this should be LAed at, or what Wizards would probably have pegged it at? Yes, it gets a lot of stuff, but none of it synergizes all that well unless you are playing a Psionic Fist. Which, if you are, you really don't need anything else to limit your power. And I really believe in keeping LAs low. Because either you are playing a caster, in which case losing caster levels is bad enough that you are probably making a sub-optimal choice even if the LA is low, or you are playing a warrior, in which case I don't mind giving you a bump.

[Ashtagon]

I don't think the Vulcan grip is a thing all of them know. Spock probably has the Stunning Fist feat, or some variant on it.

According to the Prime Directive RPG (by ADB), Vulcans are...


Stronger than humans
Demonstrate less leadership (PD uses this for more than pure "leadership"; it's almost a Charisma substitute)
Very very much more logical (essentially, Intelligence for pure science skills)
Show much less intuition (governs creative skills that D&D keys off Charisma, such as Perform, and artistic uses of Craft)
More disciplined (this is the ability that governs psionics, Survival skill, and "Will saves")
Other abilities (Accuracy, Speed, Technical Knowledge, General Knowledge, Perception) same as human


They are also the only PC race able to take any of the psionic skills or the Vulcan nerve pinch skill.



There are in fact a d20 (both "D&D" and "d20 Modern" versions) and GURPS versions of Prime Directive as well. In that version, they get +2 Str, +2 Int, -4 Cha to abilities. Also a +4 bonus to Fort saves against heat-based attacks, and +4 to Will saves against fear-based attacks, +2 bonus to a couple of skills, two bonus feats (new to PD), and a penalty on intentionally lying.

I'd probably keep the ability score modifiers, get rid of the defence against heat based attacks (not reflected in background material), grant a +4 bonus to saves against any emotion-based effect (not just fear, and not specific to Will), and rule that Vulcans always take a -4 penalty on Bluff checks in social situations, reflecting their habitual truthfulness.

To reflect their psionic heritage, something similar to what the "psionic races" get in XPH.

[Honest Tiefling]

...Why do Vulcans have a penalty to charisma? They are one of the founding members of the Federation, and Spock's father was a diplomat! Now, the -5 to bluff checks makes sense, but their sense of logic is to supposed to be used for peaceful resolution. Also, they have cultural dress and Spock plays an instrument, so I am wondering where the lack of intuition comes from.

[torrasque666]

Word of advice, don't use Spock as an example for Vulcan abilities as he's not a pure Vulcan but a Vulcan/Human hybrid.

[Venger]

If I recall correctly, a race in Expanded Psionics Handbook was inspired at least in part by them.

Are you talking about elans?

[Ashtagon]

...Why do Vulcans have a penalty to charisma? They are one of the founding members of the Federation, and Spock's father was a diplomat! Now, the -5 to bluff checks makes sense, but their sense of logic is to supposed to be used for peaceful resolution. Also, they have cultural dress and Spock plays an instrument, so I am wondering where the lack of intuition comes from.

First, you have to remember, the Vulcan race is more than just Spock and his old man. "Spock plays an instrument and his daddy was a diplomat" matters for nothing when determining the stats for an entire race. If when we saw scenes of the planet Vulcan, crowds were joyously strumming lyres and hand-harps in the background the way Londoners grimly read their free newspapers to avoid eye contact, you'd have a point.

Second, you have to remember that those stats in Prime Directive are based on Vulcans from the SFB universe, which has an odd licensing agreement (basically, original series only, no named "iconic" characters, and with creative licence allowed where it does not contradict original series source material). Regarding "Intuition", which you called out, you have to bear in mind that this is the name of the game attribute, and as such it doesn't quite have the same meaning as the plain English word (see also: D&D "Wisdom").

So it would seem that where Vulcans learn music, they mostly learn it by rote, and while a human might cheerfully improvise and create new tunes, unless you were the Vulcan equivalent of Beethoven, you'd only ever learn the Vulcan 'classics', and learn to play them to mechanical perfection. Vulcan art is probably similarly stagnated. Their logic works great for science, but not creativity. Their logic works great for science, and they have a racial knack for psi, but their difficulty in being flexible with the truth frustrate them in matters of diplomacy.

[Honest Tiefling]

I actually meant more the source for the ruling. I haven't seen all of the TOS episodes, but I am wondering what about their culture doesn't work for that and where it got mentioned. But you are right, Spock and his father are going to be aberrant, and bad examples. I just don't remember many times they went to Vulcan outside of Amok time, which...I don't think is going to be indicative of their culture, really, since that doesn't happen frequently.

[SowZ]

Spock isn't stronger than average for his race. He is probably more creative than average because of his human ancestry. Other Vulcans, like Tuvok, also have ludicrous strength. Even Spock's father seems somewhat unlikeable and probably doesn't have the strongest sense of identity, but the occasional Vulcan with decent charisma doesn't mean there shouldn't be a significant penalty. Vulcan As a diplomat, he is probably someone with excellent charisma for his species. If Spock's father is an example of a charismatic Vulcan, that speaks poorly to the average charisma of the race.

Stat disparity between the core races in D&D is usually pretty small because the difference in ability between those races is noticeable, but not nearly as big as the gap between humans and Vulcans.

[Telonius]

Charisma has a lot to do with being naturally likeable. A high-charisma person is going to be able to convince you to do what they want you to do. Sarek and (to a much lesser extent) Spock seem naturally aloof. Sarek even seems abrasive. He is a skilled Diplomat, but - using D&D terms - it seems more like he's invested a whole bunch of skill points in it rather than being naturally good at it.

[Lord Vukodlak]

...Why do Vulcans have a penalty to charisma? They are one of the founding members of the Federation, and Spock's father was a diplomat! Now, the -5 to bluff checks makes sense, but their sense of logic is to supposed to be used for peaceful resolution. Also, they have cultural dress and Spock plays an instrument, so I am wondering where the lack of intuition comes from.

Because Vulans would substitute intelligence for charisma in diplomacy rolls.


Charisma has a lot to do with being naturally likeable. A high-charisma person is going to be able to convince you to do what they want you to do. Sarek and (to a much lesser extent) Spock seem naturally aloof. Sarek even seems abrasive. He is a skilled Diplomat, but - using D&D terms - it seems more like he's invested a whole bunch of skill points in it rather than being naturally good at it.

That 70's Show gives a good example of charisma. In regards to the horrible advice Casey gives Fez, namely skipping second base and going straight for third. Donna says.
"Well, the words are wrong, but they sound so good coming out of his mouth."

[Segev]

I'd give them a +2 to Str and a -2 to Wis (Vulcan Logic is...actually not "logic" so much as a philosophy which encourages subborning intuition to intellect), and possibly a +2 racial bonus to saves vs. mind-affecting effects to reflect their rigid mental discipline of their emotions.

Despite it being a 5th-level power, I'd probably also give them a racial ability to use mind probe (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindProbe.htm) as a spell-like ability, but requiring a minute "casting time," with touch range, and allowing the subject to ask a question to which he gets an answer for each question the vulcan successfully gets answered. A racial feat would allow Psionic Suggestion and another would allow Mind Seed to be used in conjunction with this.

In all, this probably still amounts to a +0 or +1 LA race, simply because as powerful as mind probe can be, the requirements above are not going to make it useful often enough to really bump the race's balance around, considering how little else they get.

[RolkFlameraven]

+2 STR, +2INT, -2 WIS -2 CHA. Mind meld would be something similar as what Segev said above while the nerve pinch would be a racial feat of some kind (that Soong type androids can also take).

They would be naturally psionic and heat/radiation resistant. Give them powerful build as their 'high strength' only ever seem to show up in grapples anyway.

There would be a stigma against lying but they can 'exaggerate' instead if needed. And they would be encouraged to fallow the path of logic but neither of those is something they HAVE to do, just something they where raised to do.

Pon Farr could be something very interesting to see in play but that only happens ever seven years so shouldn't really come up unless that is the type of game you are playing.

Romulans would be similar but I almost feel like the INT and CHA should be swapped with them, as well as they loose out of being Psionic, Remans would be stronger, psionic but with a bigger CHA neg I would think; maybe +4 STR -4 CHA? Maybe give them a +2 WIS as well?

[Bullet06320]

Remans would be stronger, psionic but with a bigger CHA neg I would think; maybe +4 STR -4 CHA? Maybe give them a +2 WIS as well?

I don't recall anything about Remans being psionic any where, been awhile tho. mostly being used as slaves and shock troops

Vulcans are also long lived, probly use the same base age as dwarves

[KillianHawkeye]

Just because there are Vulcan diplomats, and the Vulcans prefer peace to war, doesn't mean they are naturally inclined towards diplomacy. While somebody did point out that the Vulcans were founding members of the Federation, it's only because of affable Humans who came along and helped them settle their long-standing dispute with the Andorians. In fact, the whole reason that Federation headquarters is on Earth is because it was our idea in the first place.

I would probably give them a -4 to Charisma to balance against their higher Strength and Intelligence.