Keeping the Party Together

[Draco_Lord]

I have plans to start a new campaign fairly soon, and I am looking for a way to keep the party together. As a little prelude, and so I could understand the PCs that will be playing, we ended up running a session. And... the party kind of hates each other in character. All in character, no real play conflict, so that isn't the issue. The issue is that they don't have any real in character reason to stay together. Half the party ended up being captured by orcs, the whole party was meant to be, but thanks to some done good dice rolls and solid planning three of them left the rest behind and ran into the forest. They do plan on rescuing the others, but after that a couple might try to wander off.

The general plot was going to be, they are in an orc jail. Orcs try to kill them, as a show of power and to gain favour with their gods, revealing the Big Bad of the campaign, Orc War chief who plans to invade the country next door, I had thought they would all be from that country, but then they ended up using some pretty varied backstories. They would escape, and end up running into a group of soldiers, there to find one of the PCs who is the daughter of a general of the soon to be invaded Country. Her father would assign her to an outpost, looking to keep an eye on her, and give her some military training. The rest of them... I was thinking of trying to hire them to help, or hope that the PC would do so themselves.

There is also talk about an ancient Civ with a lot of power, and the Orcs looking for it, to use in their war.

That said, what other tactics can I use to try and keep them together, forge some kind of friendship, encourage them to care about that original country, or just give them a reason for revenge.

One idea was cursing them. Having the adviser to the Orc War Chief cast something on them to debilitate them, but not cripple them, give them something that they hate, annoys them, but won't stop them from fighting effectively, and doing what they wish as they please.

Any other ideas people have would be great, and I'd love to hear them!

[Red Fel]

That said, what other tactics can I use to try and keep them together, forge some kind of friendship, encourage them to care about that original country, or just give them a reason for revenge.

One idea was cursing them. Having the adviser to the Orc War Chief cast something on them to debilitate them, but not cripple them, give them something that they hate, annoys them, but won't stop them from fighting effectively, and doing what they wish as they please.

Any other ideas people have would be great, and I'd love to hear them!

Let me start by saying that if your PCs don't have a reason to stay together early on, they're not likely to gain one as the game progresses, barring metagame by the players. I strongly encourage you, for future reference, to suggest that your players collaborate on characters, and weave their backstories together if possible.

Now, onto suggestions.

1. Do not force them. If you use your power as DM to force party cohesion, you'll get blowback. The players will resent your heavy-handedness and will focus more on bypassing their situation than advancing the plot.

2. Do give them a common cause. Quests are one thing. Common hatreds are another. Few things can truly bring people together as much as mutual hatred. Bring in NPCs they can all agree need some serious murdering, and they may just learn to get along while ridding the world of a pest.

3. Do give them time to get to know each other as people. Constant combat encounters turn the game into a number engine; the PCs won't have any opportunity to go their separate ways, but they won't really learn to get along, either. Instead, give scenarios and opportunities where each PC has the opportunity to shine, and to share the spotlight with the party. This allows the rest of the party to appreciate each PC's usefulness and personality in turn, and gives the PC in question a chance to prove his loyalty and value to the party. Also, don't be afraid to offer periodic "down time" episodes, brief periods at a tavern or around a campfire, where the PCs can talk and learn about each other.

4. Do keep the plot moving. Part of what ruins party cohesion is a feeling of listlessness or uselessness. As long as the party feels that they're accomplishing something, and that they're doing it together, they can hold together well. A little downtime is good; too much downtime, or too much of a feeling of futility, and they can question their mission. And if the mission falls apart, so too might their reasons for collaborating.

But the best thing you can probably do, in the future, is encourage some shared backstory before gameplay starts.

[Draco_Lord]

Due to the nature of the group, they should get along once they spend some time together, or at least unite to some degree.

What I would like some advice on is creating that NPC who they all want to kill. Preferably in the form of an Orc War Chief or Orc Witch Doctor kind of person. Which is kind of why I like the idea of a curse, brand, or something the orcs use to keep their prisons in check, or that they gain when they make their escape attempt.

At the very least I kind of want a way to make an NPC really hateable, while keeping him away from them, sort of. If they tried to fight either the Chief or Witch Doctor head on they will lose, and lose badly, as both are high level, either 15 or 20 (Deciding on how far I want this campaign to go).

Though I want to say thank you for your replies, I think this is the second or third time you have posted a reply to one of my questions, and every time you have been really helpful, and given me a lot of good direction to follow.

On a side note, since you are kind of a master of evil, what is a good way to lure about three PCs into a trap? It would make my life so much better if I could get them imprisoned as well, but I would hate to DM fiat that, I would prefer to do it fairly. The trap setters are Orcs, and they are in a dessert wasteland kind of environment.

[Trasilor]

I have plans to start a new campaign fairly soon, and I am looking for a way to keep the party together. As a little prelude, and so I could understand the PCs that will be playing, we ended up running a session. And... the party kind of hates each other in character. All in character, no real play conflict, so that isn't the issue. The issue is that they don't have any real in character reason to stay together. Half the party ended up being captured by orcs, the whole party was meant to be, but thanks to some done good dice rolls and solid planning three of them left the rest behind and ran into the forest. They do plan on rescuing the others, but after that a couple might try to wander off.

The general plot was going to be, they are in an orc jail. Orcs try to kill them, as a show of power and to gain favour with their gods, revealing the Big Bad of the campaign, Orc War chief who plans to invade the country next door, I had thought they would all be from that country, but then they ended up using some pretty varied backstories. They would escape, and end up running into a group of soldiers, there to find one of the PCs who is the daughter of a general of the soon to be invaded Country. Her father would assign her to an outpost, looking to keep an eye on her, and give her some military training. The rest of them... I was thinking of trying to hire them to help, or hope that the PC would do so themselves.

There is also talk about an ancient Civ with a lot of power, and the Orcs looking for it, to use in their war.

That said, what other tactics can I use to try and keep them together, forge some kind of friendship, encourage them to care about that original country, or just give them a reason for revenge.

One idea was cursing them. Having the adviser to the Orc War Chief cast something on them to debilitate them, but not cripple them, give them something that they hate, annoys them, but won't stop them from fighting effectively, and doing what they wish as they please.

Any other ideas people have would be great, and I'd love to hear them!

I am a little confused as to why the characters hate each other. One group got captured, one did not. It's not like the one group sold the other group to the orcs, they just got lucky and ran away.

Allow the PC's that ran away the opportunity to retrieve their captured friends, allow the captured friends the opportunity to break free.

Unfortunately, you made a classic mistake: railroading.

The story required the PC's to be captured, then exposed to the BBEG then escape.

I have never played a game where capturing PCs resulted in a favorable outcome. When a PC is captured, the player feels a complete loss of control over their character. Unfortunately, this has very much to do with aspect of being captured. The captors control those they have captured. While this works for novels, in RPGs it feels very frustrating as it takes away the one thing players have control over: their character.

Of the few times that I have captured the PCs (poor planning / poor rolls) I make it almost cartoonishly easy to escape: one guard, distracted guards playing dice, informative NPC who knows the guards schedule, binding with rope (or other easily cut material), using horrible locks (only if a rogue with open lock skill is present), etc. The point is that escape is easy quick.

If I need BBEG or some other Evil NPC to reveal spoilers, it happens in front of the bound PCs almost immediately.

The point is to get control of characters back to the players.

If you wanted that scene, it should have been part of the pregame narrative (i.e. You begin in the orc village, captives as a result of Jaggof the Incompetent falling asleep on his watch.... Then it's up to the PCs on what they do (wait, break free, join the orcs, etc).

One possible solution is to OOC. Remind players that you want this to be a cooperative game. You do not want to run a separate game for each player. You expect them to work together (for the most part) throughout the campaign. This is much easier if the players are your friends and not just a bunch of people you meet at the local hobby shop.

For your campaign, I suggest:

Revealing the plans of invasion sooner rather than later (perhaps in the conversation guards are having in front of the captured prisoners).

Introduce two sets of NPCs. One group (or individual) are working as a spies to find out everything they can about these invading orcs. The other group (or individual) are there to extract the spies. The captured PCs meet one group of NPCs while the PCs that got away meet the another group.

[Draco_Lord]

Hate might be a little strong. Most like, they just don't want to work together if they don't have to. It really involves stubbornness, one being a very angry half orc, and slight clash. It can turn into rivalry, I just want a way to keep them together long enough for that to happen.

That said, Spies and Extraction team actually works rather perfectly. Gives them both a thing to do, a reason to travel together, and away for me to get them to where I want them to go.

And yeah. Plans to invade are going to be said right away, well, not exactly for the PCs, but for the players, in a big speech, then a party, and then talk about killing the slaves for fun. Giving the PCs time to figure out a way to escape, along with the helpful spies. While the other can work to help them with it, providing distractions, and son on.

[Mendicant]

I would get the captured PCs on the move as quickly as possible. Conversations about evil plans and whatnot can be had by orcs as the PCs sneak their way through the camp. Don't keep them in a cage while you describe the BBEG's plans and the party and the partier's plans for the PC party.

[bean illus]

I like the idea of weaving their back stories together. Marry one of the players sister/niece/mom to another players brother/nephew/dad. Have those two kidnapped by the orcs and enslaved.

If these characters have not seen these NPCs in a while then you can plot twist retroactively, and the captured PC can find their family members already enslaved. The free PCs find their family member is captive through testimony of escaped slaves?

Characters are forced to save siblings, but either sibs die and PCs hate BBEG forever, or live but have a curse until etc.c.c....

Just thoughts.

[Segev]

Three things that are nearly guaranteed to make PCs and their players hate an NPC:

1) The NPC betrays them when they were relying on his fidelity
2) The NPC kills an NPC they all care about
3) The NPC steals prized gear


In all three cases, it is, to some extent, personal.

An NPC who embarasses them and makes mock of their abilities is also likely to earn ire, particularly if they do it from a distance.



Also, in the future, don't be afraid to TELL players your expectations. "You're all from neighboringKingdom; and were captured by orcs. Tell me how this came about," is a perfectly acceptable way to tell them how to start generating their PCs. Now, it's on them to decide not just whether they know each other yet based on their shared nationality, but how they came to be captured by the orcs.

The very start of the game is the time you can railroad the hardest with the least blowback. Start them in the situation you need, and make it the players' job to tell you how they got there.

After that, don't count on anything being done by or to the PCs the way you think it will. Be ready to plan for any possible response or result. This isn't has hard as it might seem, usually; "they get captured or they don't" is binary; you don't need to have different overall plans based on how they got captured. And if they get half-and-half captured/not, as here, you have ways to move things forward for both groups.

[Karl Aegis]

Tell us more of this war chief. Is he as insane as you have made him out to be?

[Draco_Lord]

The War Chief isn't actually insane. Not sure if he is meant to be, he is also the villain, so he is kind of meant to hate the Party anyways.

[GreyBlack]

Here's an idea: put some form of ancient curse on them, like a Mark of Justice.

Think about it: all of them are cursed such that, if they are ever more than a mile from each other or ever intentionally harm each other, the mark activates. This makes the group an enemy (the guy who cursed them) and gives them a common cause (remove the mark). This way, they will have to work together and, perhaps, gain a grudging respect for one another.

[Maglubiyet]

Here's an idea: put some form of ancient curse on them, like a Mark of Justice.

Think about it: all of them are cursed such that, if they are ever more than a mile from each other or ever intentionally harm each other, the mark activates. This makes the group an enemy (the guy who cursed them) and gives them a common cause (remove the mark). This way, they will have to work together and, perhaps, gain a grudging respect for one another.

This smacks of heavy railroading. People tend to resent being forced into anything.

Making the bad guy a smug bastard who needs to be taken down a peg or two is probably enough to unite the party. If he personally has insulted and/or injured the party and gloatingly gotten away with it, then it's almost a guarantee.

[Trasilor]

My PCs tend to hate the villain who keeps showing up. They tend to hate the fact the bad guy has contingency plans for when he is losing - like flying away :)

[Ferronach]

I like the idea of weaving their back stories together. Marry one of the players sister/niece/mom to another players brother/nephew/dad. Have those two kidnapped by the orcs and enslaved.

If these characters have not seen these NPCs in a while then you can plot twist retroactively, and the captured PC can find their family members already enslaved. The free PCs find their family member is captive through testimony of escaped slaves?

Characters are forced to save siblings, but either sibs die and PCs hate BBEG forever, or live but have a curse until etc.c.c....

Just thoughts.

I second this.

They could come across the BBEG doing unspeakable things (no need to elaborate unless you and the PCs want to) to a woman who (perception roll of yes) looks a lot like one of the party members who got away. When the captured ones escape they can save her and bring her to the other guys or better yet, they can meet up with the other guys and ask if the one has a sister and then say how they need to gho back and take out these "evil" orcs.

Make a glue of hate, repulsion and a mutual "offended-ness" (for lack of a better term).

[atemu1234]

My PCs tend to hate the villain who keeps showing up. They tend to hate the fact the bad guy has contingency plans for when he is losing - like flying away :)

My players need to get used to my villains not dying when they think they do- or escaping. Honestly, they almost murdered me after they went after a Dry Lich BEFORE getting the phylacteries done. I had to introduce like fifty NPCs to make it work after they did that. Including unveiling another factor before I had meant to.

However, my group has given me a favourite line of mine

They were trying to figure out whose turn it was to pay for pizza (we all pitch in, but someone usually pays for most of it) and one of them pointed out that I haven't paid for pizza in a while and said:
"He should pay!" (A sentiment I agree with, but at that point I was broke)
And then another one of my players said, "He's the DM, he pays in sanity."

[Yahzi]

There is only one solution: rocks fall, everybody dies. Then draw up a new party with a reason to stick together.

I once ran a GURPS campaign where people were free to make up whatever characters they want, thinking I had a hook so strong I could wield any party into a single entity. (It was the curse variety: they are all standing on a subway platform, just a group of random strangers: the door opens and a strange man gasses them: when they wake up they - and only they - can see squids in suits walking around in the crowd ala They Live!).

It didn't work. By the second session they were throwing dynamite at each other.

My next campaign, they all had to be members of the same Baron's household. One was his daughter, two were his sons, another one was his court wizard. That worked fantastically.

[Mystral]

Let those that want to wander out of the adventure do so. Then, let them create new characters with a real reason to stay with the other dudes.

[bean illus]

I like the idea of weaving their back stories together. Marry one of the players sister/niece/mom to another players brother/nephew/dad. Have those two kidnapped by the orcs and enslaved.

If these characters have not seen these NPCs in a while then you can plot twist retroactively, and the captured PC can find their family members already enslaved. The free PCs find their family member is captive through testimony of escaped slaves?

Characters are forced to save siblings, but either sibs die and PCs hate BBEG forever, or live but have a curse until etc.c.c....

Just thoughts.


Let those that want to wander out of the adventure do so. Then, let them create new characters with a real reason to stay with the other dudes.

I support these sorts of ideas, not the TPK sorts.

[paranoidbox]

I've been reading a lot of C.J. Sansom so this is kind of influenced by this, but giving them someone to hate could be the following:
A traitor to the Country-About-To-be-Invaded. Now, of course, they might not care about the country yet. But the traitor shows up in the Orc camp and verbally slams the characters and insults them in the most snobbish way, looking down on them through his nose and sneering at their predicament, before going back to the Orc Chief to discuss traitory business.

Then you can initiate your escape plan, possibly with that spy team and extraction team. The spy NPC's don't know about the traitor and need the characters to give their account of the invading orc shenanigans at one of the larger camps/cities of the Country-About-To-be-Invaded. Perhaps the NPC's offer them a reward to tag along just to give them a bit of incentive.

Once there, they see the traitor, next to the King. Oh, it's on now! They're gonna stomp him good.... except he's a high ranking official and he flat out denies everything. Why would he be a traitor? He's Lord So-and-So, Earl of Such-and-Such. Now stop this foolishness and tell us about the orcs, peasants! From there, you can introduce politics if you want. A rival lord believes them but is having trouble getting evidence, a plot to assassinate the Queen, or the discovery (and threat) of a super weapon that is being developed by the traitor's men. Or just some random missions that will eventually route the orc armies and make them heroes. HEROES OF THE REALM! HUZZAH! HUZZAH!

...

... I lack sleep.

[Draco_Lord]

I've been reading a lot of C.J. Sansom so this is kind of influenced by this, but giving them someone to hate could be the following:
A traitor to the Country-About-To-be-Invaded. Now, of course, they might not care about the country yet. But the traitor shows up in the Orc camp and verbally slams the characters and insults them in the most snobbish way, looking down on them through his nose and sneering at their predicament, before going back to the Orc Chief to discuss traitory business.

Then you can initiate your escape plan, possibly with that spy team and extraction team. The spy NPC's don't know about the traitor and need the characters to give their account of the invading orc shenanigans at one of the larger camps/cities of the Country-About-To-be-Invaded. Perhaps the NPC's offer them a reward to tag along just to give them a bit of incentive.

Once there, they see the traitor, next to the King. Oh, it's on now! They're gonna stomp him good.... except he's a high ranking official and he flat out denies everything. Why would he be a traitor? He's Lord So-and-So, Earl of Such-and-Such. Now stop this foolishness and tell us about the orcs, peasants! From there, you can introduce politics if you want. A rival lord believes them but is having trouble getting evidence, a plot to assassinate the Queen, or the discovery (and threat) of a super weapon that is being developed by the traitor's men. Or just some random missions that will eventually route the orc armies and make them heroes. HEROES OF THE REALM! HUZZAH! HUZZAH!

...

... I lack sleep.

That is actually awesome! I am so taking the idea of a traitor, I'm thinking the son of the King, well one of them. Probably around the 12th or so. As this is an elvish kingdom that son is unlikely to get much of anything, and the greedy brat wants to rule over something, even if he has to use some orcs to do it. He also believes the Orcs don't have the ability to win without him, and with everyone else dead, he can betray them and rule over everything himself.

A super weapon, well three, are already in the works. But instead of being developed it is from an ancient civ, and is going to be in the form of a Giant Mecha, all leading up to a big battle between armies, and a giant mech. Before attacking the BBEG himself, which now can be a number of people. Which is great! They can't kill all of them by pure luck.

[paranoidbox]

That is actually awesome! I am so taking the idea of a traitor, I'm thinking the son of the King, well one of them. Probably around the 12th or so. As this is an elvish kingdom that son is unlikely to get much of anything, and the greedy brat wants to rule over something, even if he has to use some orcs to do it. He also believes the Orcs don't have the ability to win without him, and with everyone else dead, he can betray them and rule over everything himself.

A super weapon, well three, are already in the works. But instead of being developed it is from an ancient civ, and is going to be in the form of a Giant Mecha, all leading up to a big battle between armies, and a giant mech. Before attacking the BBEG himself, which now can be a number of people. Which is great! They can't kill all of them by pure luck.

Glad to have been of help! That sounds like a good hook already :-)

Good luck on your adventures.