DR versus non-magic physical issue

[Baptor]

Hi, DM here.

One thing that has bugged me since I started playing in AD&D is this idea of either (magic weapons are needed to hit monster) or the slightly less annoying (non-magic weapons deal less damage against monster).

In the present edition it poses the following problem. The CR of a monster is calculated based on a number of factors, but DR factors into it quite a bit a la the DMG. So creatures with DR verses non-magical weapons have significantly less hp to account for this.

My problem is that it's still an on/off switch. Either the party doesn't have them and these monsters are tough, or they do and they are easy. Maybe it doesn't annoy other DMs, maybe it's not as annoying as I feel it is.

Assuming that's not the case, here's a proposed fix.

The first is easy but changes the game significantly. No magic weapons. Instead, dole out magic weapon oil on occasion and of course there is the magic weapon spell. This makes the party use up valuable resources to take down these monsters easy. So they can make the battle easy, but it does cost them something.

Assuming you don't want to do that, you can do this. Instead of of DR versus non-magic physical, just make it DR versus physical. Then you can give out magic weapons, and instead of magic weapon oils, give out energy oils. For example, Radiant Oil or Psychic Oil. Using this oil on a weapon changes its damage type to that energy for the duration (whatever magic weapon's is), which would bypass the physical DR of the monster.

In any event, I feel like something like this is a good idea if you don't like this as-is. For me, it's just silly that by handing out one magic item you automatically negate the special ability that significantly affects CR of a great number of the creatures in the MM.

Just my 2cp, what do you think?

[Demonic Spoon]

I agree with you, and I made a post about this awhile back myself. Another solution is just to make 'bypasses damage resistance' a special weapon feature rather than something intrinsic to all magic weapons. If monsters with resistance to nonmagical weapons are common enough for this to be a problem, then your idea of consumables to break through it seems like it would work.

[Baptor]

I agree with you, and I made a post about this awhile back myself. Your solution works. Another is just to make 'bypasses damage resistance' a special weapon feature rather than something intrinsic to all magic weapons. If monsters with resistance to nonmagical weapons are common enough for this to be a problem, then your idea of consumables to break through it seems like it woudl work.

I'm glad I'm not crazy. Means alot to know someone like Demonic Spoon agrees with me. I tend to use a lot of undead/demons in my games so the issue does come up a lot. Another, even more lazy idea is just to increase the hit points and drop the resistance but that is not as fun.

[Eisenheim]

I think another set up that would make this less of an issue, and which is possible in a climate of rare magic items, is the situation where some party members have magic weapons and others don't. Maybe the fighter is carrying a magic sword, and the ranger had a magic bow, but the cleric doesn't have something yet, so she falls into a support role for this fight. The magic v. Non-magic issue can be a source of tactical depth in a situation like that.

[Demonic Spoon]

I find it a bigger problem because it means that, as a DM, you have less freedom over what kinds of things you give your players. You cannot give anyone a magic weapon of any kind (say, one with minor utility effects) without also adding on the extremely powerful rider of "ignores damage resistance".

[Baptor]

I find it a bigger problem because it means that, as a DM, you have less freedom over what kinds of things you give your players. You cannot give anyone a magic weapon of any kind (say, one with minor utility effects) without also adding on the extremely powerful rider of "ignores damage resistance".

This. If the only way I can balance the DR issue is to give one or two characters a magic weapon but no one else, then it means some characters will never get any kind of magic weapon. Could I do it? Yes. But I won't because that's kinda lame IMHO. How do I even make that kind of determination? Fighter 1 gets a magic sword but Fighter 2 doesn't? Why? What did Fighter 2 do to deserve this treatment?

If we went back to materials, like in 3.5e, it would make more sense. maybe the fighter has an adamantine axe and the rogue has a pair of mithral daggers and the cleric has a cold-iron mace. Each will be able to easily harm one kind of critter, but none of them can hurt them all.

On one hand, I am grateful for the 5e decision that there be no expectation of magic items, but on the other, I feel like its actually made my job a lot harder. In 3e it was always really easy to know if my party had too little or too much treasure and items. Now its very ambiguous. But that's really another problem for another thread.

[Vogonjeltz]

In the present edition it poses the following problem. The CR of a monster is calculated based on a number of factors, but DR factors into it quite a bit a la the DMG. So creatures with DR verses non-magical weapons have significantly less hp to account for this.

My problem is that it's still an on/off switch. Either the party doesn't have them and these monsters are tough, or they do and they are easy. Maybe it doesn't annoy other DMs, maybe it's not as annoying as I feel it is.

I haven't noticed a problem, as a player. Typically we're dealing so much damage that we burn through the monsters regardless of any resistance. Immunity might be a different matter, but we haven't (as far as I can recall) encountered anything outright immune, yet.

[Baptor]

I haven't noticed a problem, as a player. Typically we're dealing so much damage that we burn through the monsters regardless of any resistance. Immunity might be a different matter, but we haven't (as far as I can recall) encountered anything outright immune, yet.

Actually, you bring up a good point.

As a player I can see how it would not really affect you. But that is really the point. It should make a difference. If non-magic DR doesn't make a difference to you as a player, what is the point of it anyways?

Let me put it this way. Lots of monsters have energy resistances of one kind or another, like fire res or acid res or whatever. This forces magic-users to prepare several different kinds of energy attack and be careful how they dispense it.

But if energy resistance worked the same way non-magic DR works, it would be as if every magic user got a special ability around 4-6th level that negated all energy resistance. Forever.

Which leaves you to say...um well what's the point of energy resistance then?

That's my point about non-magic DR. If any magic weapon shuts it down for good, why not increase the hp of these monsters and do away with the resistance?

Hence my search for a better way. :)