How to make money?

[ImSAMazing]

Dear Playgrounders,

I am wondering if there are good ways to make money in D&D(adventuring and clearing dungeons etc and robbing doesn't count). Maybe starting a bank or a global market? Maybe starting a new Wall Street?

SO what I ask for is: do you have any idea's/plans to make money in D&D?

[kaoskonfety]

If murder/plunder doesn't count I'm not sure I understand the question.

Either that's how I'm making money or I'm not playing D&D.

More seriously most of the D&D games I've been in/run did not have the economy/society in place to support 'serious' financial shenanigans. Either its all kinda abstract/gamified or its too medieval fantasy - serfs and kings - Noble or not, wealth and power not tied to coins but to land, favours and the crown (land is not for sale, plate mail is not for sale and in many places weapons are not for sale).

[Person_Man]

In the original D&D game run by Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz's character Robilar become the owner the the Green Dragon Inn (in the city of Greyhawk), which was where all the characters originally met and adventure hooks were handed out. (Which was not a quite a cliche at the time, since they were the first people doing it in an RPG which was in the process of being invented). So I would suggest that your character should simply buy whatever the epicenter of adventure/money happens to be in your campaign.

You might also want to check out Adventurer Conqueror King, which is a D&D retroclone game that focuses on building status, trade, wealth, and real estate at higher levels (instead of demigod reality altering magic). It'd be easy to port many of its ideas into 5E.

[Ace Jackson]

Well, if your druid is not averse to economics on principle so much as over-use or mismanagement of resources...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402800-The-Druid-Orchard-Manager&p=18933806#post18933806

Alternatively, I think I heard about some exploits involving transmutation wizards turning gold to wool for a short time to weave a garment out of literal gold threads.

As for wall street, maybe if you could make a magic item of cantrip sending reliably? But that would only be a bare baseline, you'd need people to buy into the idea as well.

And as for power being tied to the land, depending on just how your game is run, once you get powerful enough, you could just squat down on a piece of land and say "mine" for a farm to start, after paying taxes once or twice, upgrade to a stone bunkhouse and hire some farm hands, rinse and repeat in the directions you like, be it towards a castle or a freeholder's town, until either an actual local noble gets mad and tries to boot you off, or the king does, if the king does, and rallies the all the lords of the land, you might be in trouble. If the lord does, and if you set yourselves up so that the lord doesn't have to much political power, and his actual classed supporters are of a reasonably lower level then you, you can probably beat him back if your party does the heavy lifting with support from your peasant archers. The king wants his vassals to be able to take care of their own business, so he doesn't have to, if you can beat a nobleman, have loyal peasants of your own, and that nobleman isn't owed too many favors by too many people, then the king may well choose the stronger vassal for his wars, you.

[kaoskonfety]

And as for power being tied to the land, depending on just how your game is run, once you get powerful enough, you could just squat down on a piece of land and say "mine" for a farm to start, after paying taxes once or twice, upgrade to a stone bunkhouse and hire some farm hands, rinse and repeat in the directions you like, be it towards a castle or a freeholder's town, until either an actual local noble gets mad and tries to boot you off, or the king does, if the king does, and rallies the all the lords of the land, you might be in trouble. If the lord does, and if you set yourselves up so that the lord doesn't have to much political power, and his actual classed supporters are of a reasonably lower level then you, you can probably beat him back if your party does the heavy lifting with support from your peasant archers. The king wants his vassals to be able to take care of their own business, so he doesn't have to, if you can beat a nobleman, have loyal peasants of your own, and that nobleman isn't owed too many favors by too many people, then the king may well choose the stronger vassal for his wars, you.

This is decidedly possible, if risky - some lords will gladly take the strongest contender, some will see your behaviour and wonder if they are next, some (most?) will see it their duty to defend their vassal, from you. It turns into a politic/favours game. Know the king and be on his good side, send presents/bribes etc. It can work... but ... overthrowing the local knight/count/duke/king to take his land and titles probably counts as plunder.

[rollingForInit]

1) Marry someone who's rich
2) Get it bestowed upon you as a reward (e.g. turned into a noble by a king)
3) Start an enterprise, produce and sell goods and/or services. Or invest in other enterprises.

1) and 3) is generally how people gain wealth. I guess in our world there's also lottery.

[GiantOctopodes]

In our D&D campaign we're making money hand over fist living the life of traders. After all, if we're going from point A to point B, may as well engage in mercantile endeavors while we're at it.

Now, we're in a nautical campaign based in an archipelago, so it's easier for us than it might otherwise be, but a wagon train or large cart isn't a terrible way to get around, and even a few tons at a time allows for *some* bonus cash to be earned on the side, without really going out of your way to do anything differently.

Generally speaking, I find that anything that involves getting money from peasants is far more trouble than it's worth (you can't get blood from a stone and all that), and most heavy hitters monetarily are already heavily invested in things and are fiercely opposed to increased competition. Where you can make money with minimal fuss is the middle men, supplying goods for small businesses in moderate quantities.

Individual classes also have their own money making styles, too, of course. If you're a Wizard, suddenly the sky is the limit. Peddling use of your magic can earn you tons of money, peddling people the ability to copy spells from your tome can earn you tons of money, peddling end results and then using magic to attain them can earn you tons of money. Rogues just need to find someone wealthy, and suddenly they can become wealthy too :smallwink:. Bards can perform, Clerics and Druids can do what Wizards can do to lesser extents, as can Sorcerers with the right spell selection, really it's just Rangers (who don't need any money anyway, it defeats their whole living off the land schtick), Monks, Barbarians and Fighters who don't have easy cash potential.

[Sigreid]

Sadly, it's pretty much up to your DM because what little rules they have in the DMG for entrepreneurial pursuits are designed to be a hobby that drains your resources. If you're lucky, you'll have a week where you break even.

[Warwick]

Sadly, it's pretty much up to your DM because what little rules they have in the DMG for entrepreneurial pursuits are designed to be a hobby that drains your resources. If you're lucky, you'll have a week where you break even.

Was that deliberate? Or was it the usual RPG designers cannot into math?

[-Jynx-]

So you wanna make some mad loot right? Lemonade stand.

But peddle hard drugs on the side, start killing off the competition. Become drug lords, profit. What is this the sims? You plan on bar-tending as a wench at the local tavern for money? Boring! OPEN A BROTHEL. DO WHAT YOU M- F- IN WANT!! Beat up kids for their milk money if you have to.

[Sigreid]

Was that deliberate? Or was it the usual RPG designers cannot into math?

I believe it was deliberate too keep you adventuring. Really, it's one of the few truly stupid decisions the made.

[Slipperychicken]

Sadly, it's pretty much up to your DM because what little rules they have in the DMG for entrepreneurial pursuits are designed to be a hobby that drains your resources. If you're lucky, you'll have a week where you break even.

Since your business only gets less profitable (relative to time spent) the more you run it*, you can do quite well if you're allowed to run a shop for 1-day intervals. Perhaps you can open up shop for 1 day, shut your doors, then start up a new business the next day, shutter it that night, then repeat ad nauseum for the entire downtime. That gets you an expected value of 16.205 gold per day (this value is 16.857 for a farm or hunting lodge, which have lower maintenance costs), and a negligible degree of risk compared to the returns you're getting.


*The profitable outcomes on the business table are not greatly impacted by time spent running the business, while the negative outcomes only increase. Running a business for 30 days gets you a total expected profit of 38, which is a per-day value of 1.267, and some risk (10% chance to wind up losing 30 gold, 20% chance to break even and waste a month). This is a hideous waste of time compared to simply shutting your doors after the first day and finding something better to do with your life (like starting a new business!).


tl;dr: Keep a list of 100 or so business ideas that can take place in a shop, hunting lodge, farm, or small temple (those have the lowest upkeep), try a different one each day of downtime, and laugh at the poor sod who's earning peanuts running the same business every day. The eclectic entrepreneur wins the day in D&D.

[Warwick]

I believe it was deliberate too keep you adventuring. Really, it's one of the few truly stupid decisions the made.

I haven't read the DMG; do the writers at least make this explicit, or is there some poor table of mathematical illiterates somewhere who can't figure out why all their investments keep failing?

edit: is this the same section where they meant to say construction takes four times as long if the party isn't there breathing down the workers' necks, but accidentally said it takes forever instead?

[Sigreid]

I haven't read the DMG; do the writers at least make this explicit, or is there some poor table of mathematical illiterates somewhere who can't figure out why all their investments keep failing?

edit: is this the same section where they meant to say construction takes four times as long if the party isn't there breathing down the workers' necks, but accidentally said it takes forever instead?

They don't say "Here's how to screw your players out of their cash" but the odds are so far against you even breaking even that it's not well hidden. If I recall right, the down time activity that is most likely to end up with you actually making some money is carousing as you might get a windfall from your drinking, gambling and whoring.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that having a stronghold or even a house is just a drain on your cash. There is nothing in there about making it at least self sustaining. To me this is bad design because owning chattels and setting down some roots is one of the key things that helps keep the game from going all murder-hobo.

[Battlebooze]

Put your expertise in performance like my Bard did, then buy a bar and hold concerts for nobles and adventurers. :)

[Sigreid]

Put your expertise in performance like my Bard did, then buy a bar and hold concerts for nobles and adventurers. :)

That's one of great many ideas, but if your DM goes "by the rules" you'll still loose money most of the time. It's crazy, poorly thought out, and should be erratta'd or replaced with a book specifically on owning and managing property like Strongholds was.

Edit: Now that I think about it, the source book they really need is one on campaign world economies.

[Slipperychicken]

That's one of great many ideas, but if your DM goes "by the rules" you'll still loose money most of the time. It's crazy, poorly thought out, and should be erratta'd or replaced with a book specifically on owning and managing property like Strongholds was.

That is strictly untrue. Even if you only run the business for a day (only adding 1 to the d100 roll), it's a 39% chance to get a negative return. If you run the business for 30 days, that chance goes down to 10% (and even then you only lose half the upkeep).

[ImSAMazing]

The question is, what is the best way to make money so you can pay to build a Palice(500.000 GP as stated in the DMG)?

Drugs might work, maybe selling gunpowder or something?

[Gurka]

First the disclaimer: No activity in D&D will be profitable until/unless the DM wants it to be. Thus no matter how good or bad you idea is, it's success is dependent on you pitching it to the DM, and their willingness to let you accumulate wealth. That said:

Best way to make money in D&D, is the same way you make money anywhere else:

1) Find either goods or services that are in high demand, and charge a premium for them. Ideally this is something which you can MAKE at the start, as to minimize costs.

2) Identify and eliminate your competition (No, that doesn't mean kill them, but yes, it CAN mean kill them), so that you may fix the market at a profit point which you're comfortable with.

3) Delegate the running of the business to competent NPCs who fear/respect you, allowing you to maintain cash flow while investing minimal personal time.

4) Diversify: Repeat steps one through three as needed. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.



As to goods and services, the best place to start is always Vice. Whores, booze, drugs. There's always a market for them in a town/city of significant size, and even in a medieval/fantasy setting, well crafted wine and liquor is worth a lot of money to people with expensive taste, and the income to justify it. Also, liquor is typically very cheap to produce, though for many types, it need be aged for quite some time before it's worth top dollar.

Running a brothel incurs the cost of the building, which isn't all that expensive, and from there you simply offer the girls (and boys) a place to ply their own trade; you offer protection and a nice establishment, attracting better clientele, they give you 50% off the top.

Otherwise, who's in your area? Soldiers? They like the above options, plus good boots, armor, weapons.

Nobility? They like the above plus fine garments and art.

Common folk? They like the above too, but don't typically have the money it takes for you to get rich off of.

[Coidzor]

Get all of the diviners interested in the area in question in on a South Seas Bubble? (https://youtu.be/k1kndKWJKB8)

[PoeticDwarf]

Dear Playgrounders,

I am wondering if there are good ways to make money in D&D(adventuring and clearing dungeons etc and robbing doesn't count). Maybe starting a bank or a global market? Maybe starting a new Wall Street?

SO what I ask for is: do you have any idea's/plans to make money in D&D?

Starting a bank sounds for me the best idea to make money in D&D 5e, but you already said that.
If you have a job, you just earn less than one gold piece per day. So that doesn't count I think.

[Sigreid]

The question is, what is the best way to make money so you can pay to build a Palice(500.000 GP as stated in the DMG)?

Drugs might work, maybe selling gunpowder or something?

Rather than running a business, getting payed by kings to enhance their crops with bless plant/control weather. Make them pay for prosperity.

[Slipperychicken]

One idea I had a while back is selling fake magic items, fake poisons/potions (actually just colored liquids), and such. Use your deception skill and Nystul's Magic Aura, and you can do some pretty convincing fakes. After all, who will really notice a +1 to AC from a ring of protection, and how will someone know the difference between a fake poison and a successful saving throw? You could even fake spellbooks or inactive stat-tomes if you have a good forgery skill. If you're running with the normal rules for selling magic items, and are careful to avoid getting caught, this can be immensely profitable.

[Clistenes]

By the rules, you can explicitly make cloth (linen, cotton, wool, silk) out of raw materials using Fabricate. Silk is a luxury item, and may be too difficult to craft with Fabricate, but the rest are common materials. Linnen offers the greatest profit per casting.

You can probably do other stuff that is labor-intensive but not too difficult: Press olives or seeds into oil, make paper from cotton or hemp, make candles from wax, make soap from fat, or refine copper, tin and lead from raw minerals. I think you would get the greatest profits per casting from paper-making, followed by oil-pressing.

You could Teleport to far removed places and trade in gold, silver, platinum, gems, silk and spices. You could Plane Shift to trade with the Higher Planes. If you had a Holding Bag or Portable Hole your profits per casting would be enormous.

[snowman87]

Start a casino. The house always wins.

[Sigreid]

Learn the clone spell and sell really rich people their youth back.

[tyler.h.law]

Wizard with Arcana skill... Copy spells a bunch of times, sell them as magic items.

First level spells = 50gp+2 hours.

Sell for 100gp. As you level up, you can sell rarer spells. Also, snag a wizard school and sell those for more because, "I am an expert in this kind of magic" and you make them for cheaper.

[Unoriginal]

Please don't necro a three years old thread.

[ErHo]

Since your business only gets less profitable (relative to time spent) the more you run it*, you can do quite well if you're allowed to run a shop for 1-day intervals. Perhaps you can open up shop for 1 day, shut your doors, then start up a new business the next day, shutter it that night, then repeat ad nauseum for the entire downtime. That gets you an expected value of 16.205 gold per day (this value is 16.857 for a farm or hunting lodge, which have lower maintenance costs), and a negligible degree of risk compared to the returns you're getting.



Reminds me of Dark Sun Merchant class. You would travel with everything and only set up shop every week or more.

[Sigreid]

Reminds me of Dark Sun Merchant class. You would travel with everything and only set up shop every week or more.

Eh, since the thread has popped back up...if you invest in Cha and the right skills gambling can be a very profitable down time.

[R.Shackleford]

In the original D&D game run by Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz's character Robilar become the owner the the Green Dragon Inn (in the city of Greyhawk), which was where all the characters originally met and adventure hooks were handed out. (Which was not a quite a cliche at the time, since they were the first people doing it in an RPG which was in the process of being invented). So I would suggest that your character should simply buy whatever the epicenter of adventure/money happens to be in your campaign.


On this same topic, this is why I like titles, deeds, and other non-monetary rewards in which can become money.

As a DM and player, plots of land or an abandoned building will typically be a reward and not just money.