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View Full Version : Star Wars: Miraluka and Prostheic Eyes



gom jabbarwocky
2015-07-02, 01:11 PM
I'm about to run a Star Wars d20 game, and I just thought of something kind of twisted - the Miraluka are a species of alien who are outwardly identical to humans except they have no eyeballs. They "see" using the Force. However, while I can't recall ever seeing cybernetic eyes in the movies, in the RPG, characters can get them. What would happen to a Miraluka that got cybernetic eyes? Heck, in SW, you could probably clone someone a set of fresh organic eyes, optic nerve and all, and just ram that into their skull.

I'm thinking that maybe it wouldn't work, since if the Miraluka have no eyes or optic nerve, they might not have the requisite brain architecture to accept such an implant. On the other hand, obviously they have the ability to visualize stuff in their brains, since they can still "see", just with ESP, so maybe it would work... and considering SW in general doesn't give a whit for scientific accuracy, I doubt neuro-anatomy has the answer here.

And if it did work, what kind of effect would it have on the Miraluka? Would they go crazy from the alien sensory input? What impact would it have on their natural abilities, if any? How do you adjudicate something like that if a Miraluka PC decides to try it?

* I wasn't sure if this belonged in the more specific d20 forum, since while I thought of this because of the d20 SW game, I'm pretty sure that the specific system isn't terribly relevant.

JustIgnoreMe
2015-07-02, 01:45 PM
I think it wouldn't work. Cyber eyes are meant to replace eyes that already exist or once existed, not to give a creature an entirely new sense.

If I remember rightly, the Blind flaw in Shadowrun 3E expressly says that cyber eyes can't cure it.

That's not to say that it's impossible to grant a Miraluka sight, but it should be about as easy as giving a human echolocation.

Trekkin
2015-07-02, 07:51 PM
What would happen to a Miraluka that got cybernetic eyes?\
And if it did work, what kind of effect would it have on the Miraluka? Would they go crazy from the alien sensory input? What impact would it have on their natural abilities, if any? How do you adjudicate something like that if a Miraluka PC decides to try it?


The straightforward answer is that it wouldn't work, simply because the Miraluka don't have anything to plug the cybereyes into, so to speak; whatever they've got generating their Force sight probably can't be electrically stimulated into replicating the effect of photons hitting retinas. You might allow a brain implant to figure out an analogue, but those have side effects.

I suspect it might make for a better game if you allowed it, though -- and played to the full the effects of having two different eyesights. Suddenly the Miraluka can see color and can't see through solid objects; it would be like if we could see static electricity but couldn't see through liquids. It's certainly possible to get used to, but it would take a considerable amount of recovery time and training to correctly interpret the new signals.

And even afterwards, there's always the opportunity for an exigency the software doesn't cover suddenly messing everything up. It might be an interesting source of sudden crises.

gom jabbarwocky
2015-07-03, 11:38 AM
I think it wouldn't work. Cyber eyes are meant to replace eyes that already exist or once existed, not to give a creature an entirely new sense.

If I remember rightly, the Blind flaw in Shadowrun 3E expressly says that cyber eyes can't cure it.

That's not to say that it's impossible to grant a Miraluka sight, but it should be about as easy as giving a human echolocation.

Yeah, that was my initial thought, too. But then again, the way the rulebooks describe the Miraluka's "Force sight", it's effectively the same as being able to see in most respects (I call it "Daredevil Syndrome" - when a character is supposed to be blind but has some other ability that basically functions exactly like being able to see anyway). It wouldn't be a gameplay balance issue, like if you took the blind flaw and then just bought it off with some gizmo, it would be more like, yeah, giving a sighted human echolocation. Or like giving an ambulatory person an extraneous third leg - it certainly wouldn't make walking around any easier!

Also, while I agree that saying it just plain wouldn't work would make the most sense, it's also the most unsatisfying.:smalltongue:


The straightforward answer is that it wouldn't work, simply because the Miraluka don't have anything to plug the cybereyes into, so to speak; whatever they've got generating their Force sight probably can't be electrically stimulated into replicating the effect of photons hitting retinas. You might allow a brain implant to figure out an analogue, but those have side effects.

I suspect it might make for a better game if you allowed it, though -- and played to the full the effects of having two different eyesights. Suddenly the Miraluka can see color and can't see through solid objects; it would be like if we could see static electricity but couldn't see through liquids. It's certainly possible to get used to, but it would take a considerable amount of recovery time and training to correctly interpret the new signals.

And even afterwards, there's always the opportunity for an exigency the software doesn't cover suddenly messing everything up. It might be an interesting source of sudden crises.

I like the idea that in order to work it would require some additional tinkering with the interface, but that shouldn't be too big an issue for any half competent outlaw tech or the like to figure out. I guess the biggest issue would be the Miraluka trying to figure out how to "see" in two ways at the same time. I kind of prefer to think that if a character doesn't have the discipline to handle it, they might go bonkers, but that's a tad melodramatic.

Kantaki
2015-07-04, 01:45 PM
The real question is why would a miraluka want Cyborg eyes. I really doubt that they would be better than their innate force sight, even if they would work
With could be possible, the last time I looked miraluka were a offshot of Star Wars humans and should still have eyeholes were normal humans have them (and half-miraluka have eyes).
Connecting the eyes to the brain could be difficult but if the miraluka only wants to pass as a human that should work.

Yora
2015-07-05, 06:24 AM
They clearly are near-humans, which I believe means in Star Wars that they are related. Since they otherwise are pretty much identical to humans in every way we can tell,it's most likely that their brains still have the necessary parts to process visual signals. Hooking up the eyes should likely be possible. In recent years it has become possible to restore healing through implants to people who were born completely deaf and the brain is still able to adapt to it. Though I don't know how well those people are able to make sense of what they hear. Wouldn't be surprised if depth perception would be very poor.

But I agree that the real question for Miraluka would be why they would want it? They are not impaired in any way, I believe.

Gadora
2015-07-05, 07:18 AM
It's worth noting that Star Wars systems generally have some penalty to Force use accrued by cybernetics, so you're not only running into the issues of getting it set up correctly—you're likely putting a damper on their 'normal' Force sight.

gom jabbarwocky
2015-07-05, 04:53 PM
But I agree that the real question for Miraluka would be why they would want it? They are not impaired in any way, I believe. I'm assuming that the procedure would be involuntary...

I totally forgot that humans and Miraluka could, theoretically, interbreed... it's been a long time since I read the KoToR comics, so Krynda Draay, half Miraluka, also a lady with fully functional eyeballs. This does lead me to assume that prosthetic eyes could actually work.


It's worth noting that Star Wars systems generally have some penalty to Force use accrued by cybernetics, so you're not only running into the issues of getting it set up correctly—you're likely putting a damper on their 'normal' Force sight. Yeah, I can't imagine a Miraluka willingly undergoing that kind of surgery. It's interesting you bring up this point, but I can't imagine that cybernetics are that debilitating to one's ability to use and sense the Force - Darth Vader barely had enough of his original fleshy self to fill up a briefcase, but he could still use rock the Force like a BA. Luke's ability to use the Force didn't seem too hampered by his robo-hand, either. However, I agree that a Miraluka would have reason to fear that the procedure would actually harm their ability to use the Force and would not, generally, go through it under ordinary circumstances - or, at least, in being less dependent on the Force, it would hurt their relationship with it.

Gadora
2015-07-06, 12:53 AM
Yeah, I can't imagine a Miraluka willingly undergoing that kind of surgery. It's interesting you bring up this point, but I can't imagine that cybernetics are that debilitating to one's ability to use and sense the Force - Darth Vader barely had enough of his original fleshy self to fill up a briefcase, but he could still use rock the Force like a BA. Luke's ability to use the Force didn't seem too hampered by his robo-hand, either. However, I agree that a Miraluka would have reason to fear that the procedure would actually harm their ability to use the Force and would not, generally, go through it under ordinary circumstances - or, at least, in being less dependent on the Force, it would hurt their relationship with it.

It apparently comes up in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, in the "big no" scene. I know it comes up in the WEG d6 books and WotC's d20 books. And, according to the Wookieepedia page on cybernetics (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cybernetics), it also comes up in post-NJO stuff.


"The Sith Lady Lumiya also received extensive amounts of prosthesis after crashing her starfighter following a dogfight with Luke Skywalker. It was her claim that high levels of prosthesis dampened an individual's sensitivity to the Force, though others, like Darth Plagueis, thought otherwise. This, she claimed, had stopped Darth Vader from attaining the full potential of a Sith Lord and was also stifled her attempts to achieve a mastery of the dark side of the Force."

That said, it's easy to ignore, if it doesn't fit your vision of the setting. But if you're looking for a reason as to why this wouldn't work, this may be handy.

Plus1Sword
2015-07-06, 01:55 AM
Darth Vader barely had enough of his original fleshy self to fill up a briefcase, but he could still use rock the Force like a BA. Luke's ability to use the Force didn't seem too hampered by his robo-hand, either.

Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are also the most naturally Force-gifted creatures in the entire Star Wars universe(Legends or "Canon"). To compare the average Miraluka(or Force-Sensitive in general) to Darth Vader is like comparing the average high school basketball player to Lebron James. Sure, Joe Shmo might be athletic, but's it's simply not the same thing.

The main issue of the idea(at least biologically) isn't whether it's possible, but rather whether or not it would cause a stimulus overload. A large portion of Star Wars cybernetics were noted to cause mental issues with the users, people like Lobot became less and less human while pilots would get better reflexes but also have life-threatening daredevil personalities emerge as a result. Others weren't so lucky, and couldn't handle the overflow of stimulus, putting their bodies into shock or even provoking insanity from things happening too fast.

Fluff-wise most Miraluka wouldn't feel the need to undergo such a process, unless they were in a Kyle Katarn type situation where they were being hunted because of their Forceful nature and wanted to disconnect themselves from the Force, making them rely on more natural senses.

gom jabbarwocky
2015-07-06, 11:32 AM
Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are also the most naturally Force-gifted creatures in the entire Star Wars universe(Legends or "Canon"). To compare the average Miraluka(or Force-Sensitive in general) to Darth Vader is like comparing the average high school basketball player to Lebron James. Sure, Joe Shmo might be athletic, but's it's simply not the same thing.

Fair enough. My EU knowledge isn't terribly broad, so as far as I was aware, the sample size of Force-users with cybernetic implants consisted of only a few data points (Luke, Vader, uh... sometimes Bao-Dur, and I guess Malak had that weird mandible-thing going on).

Ninjaxenomorph
2015-07-06, 12:40 PM
I think that's an issue left up for debate. Mechanically, I know that having prosthetics makes it slightly easier to fall to the Dark Side; with the old WEG D6 mechanics, prosthetics only slightly affected them, but enhancements definitely made it easier.