Help out a new DM in LMoP

[Spike440]

Hi. I'm brand new to D&D and am running a game with 5 friends (all new too) in LMoP. They're playing the 5 pregens. Hoping the forum can help me out with a few questions.

The party are currently in the Tresendar Manor and have released the prisoners from the cells. Before they started this dungeon they went to the Sleeping Giant Inn and burned it down. This took me by surprise but it was morning so I had no Redbrands there. I had the dwarven proprietor flee in a tunnel and enter the Manor, which made the party follow. I'm thinking of having the dwarf be a guard in the armory which they are about to find. I expect they'll pretend they're new recruits to get the weapons and armour there but I'm wondering how the dwarf should be prepared in case they go to combat. Would it be a better idea to have a monster as a guard? Also, would it make sense to have some loot for the halfing rogue in a locked box with thieves cant on it? The pregen bio talks of the rogue being betrayed to Glasstaff. Maybe the dwarf was the traitor?

Also, how should I deal with characters changing? The rogue is meant to be true neutral but has been playing it really differently (trying to extort high prices, threatening villagers, maiming prisoners during rest, attempting to seduce pretty much any women, including the 18yo prisoner girl: very Belkar which is weird because he doesn't know Oots). How do I deal with this? Should I alter his alignment?

Similarly the noble fighter has taken to arson as a solution to many problems. Should I encourage them to play more to their characters or change the character traits?

Thanks for any help.

[Millface]

Hi. I'm brand new to D&D and am running a game with 5 friends (all new too) in LMoP. They're playing the 5 pregens. Hoping the forum can help me out with a few questions.

The party are currently in the Tresendar Manor and have released the prisoners from the cells. Before they started this dungeon they went to the Sleeping Giant Inn and burned it down. This took me by surprise but it was morning so I had no Redbrands there. I had the dwarven proprietor flee in a tunnel and enter the Manor, which made the party follow. I'm thinking of having the dwarf be a guard in the armory which they are about to find. I expect they'll pretend they're new recruits to get the weapons and armour there but I'm wondering how the dwarf should be prepared in case they go to combat. Would it be a better idea to have a monster as a guard? Also, would it make sense to have some loot for the halfing rogue in a locked box with thieves cant on it? The pregen bio talks of the rogue being betrayed to Glasstaff. Maybe the dwarf was the traitor?

Also, how should I deal with characters changing? The rogue is meant to be true neutral but has been playing it really differently (trying to extort high prices, threatening villagers, maiming prisoners during rest, attempting to seduce pretty much any women, including the 18yo prisoner girl: very Belkar which is weird because he doesn't know Oots). How do I deal with this? Should I alter his alignment?

Similarly the noble fighter has taken to arson as a solution to many problems. Should I encourage them to play more to their characters or change the character traits?

Thanks for any help.


This is a classic pitfall with an entirely fresh group... they don't play characters, they play the most impulsive version of themselves and behave in a way that they never could in real life but always thought might be, you know, kinda fun.

Character development is key for fixing this, and you don't really get that with pregen. Having each player think up a character full with background, hobbies, and long and short term goals are a very good way to keep them in check. As the DM it's also up to you to know who their characters are supposed to be. The more you all know about them the more gently you can nudge them if they go off course.

"Rogue, your background has you having been a prisoner for some time, are you treating them like this because you're jaded about it? Or would you maybe be more sympathetic?"

Don't tell them how to play their characters, but don't be afraid to encourage them to think in their character's shoes at all times instead of their own by asking them questions about some of the things they decide to do. Every player should be able to justify every action his character does in a way that makes sense with his back story, personality, alignment, and goals. If not to the whole party then at least to you as the DM.

I realize you already started with Pregens so its really no going back for now but that's a major cause of the disconnect between their alignment and their actions. Maybe ask them each if there is anything about their Pregens they'd like changed? From alignment to background, if the guy playing the rogue wants to play evil and you hand him neutral he's going to play it evil anyway, you know?

As far as the stuff specific to the module, I'm not sure because I've never played or read it. You certainly can't have players running around burning down property without all kinds of intervention from the guard/other nearby adventurers. Being evil is one thing, being reckless is another. Don't be afraid to introduce consequences for these behaviors.

[Spike440]

Thanks that's really helpful. I expect now that they've played and enjoyed it, they might roll up their own characters for the next campaign.

The dwarven cleric and the Mage have spent some time with me filling out their characters and it's worked out really well. It's really the rogue that I'm stumped over. Can I change his alignment to match the way he wants to play it? How can a mostly good party work with a chaotic evil member? The starter set doesn't give much guidance.

[Shining Wrath]

Chaotic evil people tend to wind up dead if they are not either powerful or careful. How do you think the player would respond to the rogue getting some lethal blowback from someone he tries to abuse? Shopkeeper pulls a heavy crossbow from under the counter and shoots him in the face when his intimidate check fails sort of stuff.

[Millface]

Thanks that's really helpful. I expect now that they've played and enjoyed it, they might roll up their own characters for the next campaign.

The dwarven cleric and the Mage have spent some time with me filling out their characters and it's worked out really well. It's really the rogue that I'm stumped over. Can I change his alignment to match the way he wants to play it? How can a mostly good party work with a chaotic evil member? The starter set doesn't give much guidance.

First of all if it's a pregen and he didn't get to choose it to begin with then yes, you can change it, especially this early on.

Having said that... CE is very, very difficult to properly play with a group of good players and even if that might be what he thinks he wants, the reality of it isn't as glamorous. It reads as "Do what you want!" but that's not how the world works, fantasy or not. Lawful Evil can be hidden, you can plot and have a plan for an ultimate goal in mind and just act good until the opportunity strikes.

Chaotic Evil is impossible to hide because it's impulsive by nature. I would encourage him to try something else, even if you have to pick a different class and character idea altogether. Your options are to be realistic and have the rogue most likely be arrested or killed in retribution or to let him break your game by doing whatever he wants whenever he wants. Not good options. CE is best left for exclusively Evil parties.

Lastly, that's great that you're taking one on one time with your players. It's very important as a DM to keep communication open and free, and to encourage them to be excited and come to you with their ideas. If they don't come to you regularly just to chat about the game and characters I would encourage you to go to them, just to ask how they feel about the session and their character.

[Ramshack]

Well keep in mind during that adventure the party is pretty much Kill on Sight unless they are disguised and wearing red brand uniforms. So tricking the armory guards could be hard without them taking the necessary precautions. Additionally I think an alternative place for the dwarf would be meeting with Glassstaff and reporting the destruction of the Inn etc. Did the players escort the freed prisoners out of the manor? If they failed to clear the path out properly the prisoners could always run into more redbrands get recaptured and have the alarm raised for intruders etc.

As for your players being destructive and what not, as others said this is a very common problem with new players. I know just about everyone uses their first character to act on all their heinous thoughts. It might be an interesting study on human behavior one day. Still the best way as others have said is to either encourage players to think about their backgrounds make them think about their motives and goals. If you think someone is acting contrary to their backgrounds ideals, bonds goals etc ask them about it. If it persists make sure they understand their are consequences to their actions. Jail for getting caught stealing, perhaps villagers, shop owners fighting back against intimidation tactics, have a nobleman they insulted or wronged put a bounty on their heads, have people refuse to sell them goods or allow them to stay in inns because of their ****ty reputation.

That being said you can also reward correct role playing positively, inspiration points is a way to do this, have villagers give them free room and board, have people they helped pool reward money or offer them a place to hide, or even lie to guards or corrupt officials on their behalf, discounts on armor, weapons and supplies etc.

[JAL_1138]

As a pure tangent, this is an area where I think the crazy lethality of low-level AD&D had an edge. If you tried to be a wantonly-destructive, impulsive player at first level in AD&D, you usually died outright in the first unnecessary fight you picked, no matter who or what it was with. Even if it was a housecat, or a barnyard goat, or a single-digit number of squirrels. Anybody with a weapon, or worse, a weapon and a level of Fighter, taking them one-on-one, or un a group the same size as the party? Be ready to roll a new character; your chances are 50/50 at best. A bar fight could turn into a TPK in a hurry.

Back in my day, dagnabbit, git off my lawn, dadgum whippersnappers, etc., etc., so on and so forth. [/old_coot]

I'd say just don't pull any punches on the consequences of impulsive, destructive actions. Explain why they're happening, though, in a logical way in-universe. Make sure not to be or even seem vindictive. "The NPCs are people too, and they'll act and react like people would. The enemies are intelligent beings, and will act and react as such. If you do X, they're likely to do Y." Shining Wrath's suggestion of having a shopkeeper pull a crossbow in response to a failed intimidation attempt is a good one, as are Ramshack's suggestions.

[Sigreid]

First of all if it's a pregen and he didn't get to choose it to begin with then yes, you can change it, especially this early on.

Having said that... CE is very, very difficult to properly play with a group of good players and even if that might be what he thinks he wants, the reality of it isn't as glamorous. It reads as "Do what you want!" but that's not how the world works, fantasy or not. Lawful Evil can be hidden, you can plot and have a plan for an ultimate goal in mind and just act good until the opportunity strikes.

Chaotic Evil is impossible to hide because it's impulsive by nature. I would encourage him to try something else, even if you have to pick a different class and character idea altogether. Your options are to be realistic and have the rogue most likely be arrested or killed in retribution or to let him break your game by doing whatever he wants whenever he wants. Not good options. CE is best left for exclusively Evil parties.

Lastly, that's great that you're taking one on one time with your players. It's very important as a DM to keep communication open and free, and to encourage them to be excited and come to you with their ideas. If they don't come to you regularly just to chat about the game and characters I would encourage you to go to them, just to ask how they feel about the session and their character.

I'd recommend suggesting chaotic neutral. The character can be "all about me" but still understand that being too crazy turns people against you and being a good friend to loyal comrades increases his ability to do as he pleases without suffering extreme consequences.

[Malifice]

I'd recommend suggesting chaotic neutral. The character can be "all about me" but still understand that being too crazy turns people against you and being a good friend to loyal comrades increases his ability to do as he pleases without suffering extreme consequences.

I second this.