A bit of guidance

[LyphenThymes]

Hey there. My apologies if I'm in the wrong spot. Been a good while since I've engaged actively in any kind of online forum. I've read the forum rules and don't intend on being a pest or causing any problems. I'm primarily here to find a group of people that can kindly and intellectually guide me through the basics. I'm not completely ignorant to the 3.5 system but I will admit it's been quite a few years since I last was able to play. Mainly right now I'd like to get some help creating a character, and if anyone can help me make/sort out my previous character sheets that would be appreciated greatly. Many thanks.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Hey there. My apologies if I'm in the wrong spot. Been a good while since I've engaged actively in any kind of online forum. I've read the forum rules and don't intend on being a pest or causing any problems. I'm primarily here to find a group of people that can kindly and intellectually guide me through the basics. I'm not completely ignorant to the 3.5 system but I will admit it's been quite a few years since I last was able to play. Mainly right now I'd like to get some help creating a character, and if anyone can help me make/sort out my previous character sheets that would be appreciated greatly. Many thanks.

Sure, I think we'd be happy to help.

What system are you using, and what sources are allowed? Are there any houserules? What kind of game are you playing, and what type of character are you interested in creating? The more information you can give, the more effectively we'll be able to assist you. If you can give us, say, an archetype - I'm interested in being a pirate! - or a more specific build stub - I'm looking at going Swift Hunter, what are the best Scout/Ranger break points? - we can start to give specific and direct advice. As far as resources go, I'd start with the Wizards of the Coast site and with the d20 SRD (d20srd.org).

[LyphenThymes]

Alright allow me to be more specific. It's been about 10 years since I last played. I've recently been reacquainted with d&d and now am extremely interested in learning as much as I can so I could eventually dm. I started with 3.5 edition and do have the books. But I want to get advice from folks that know for sure about the rules so my characters are constructed correctly.

[LyphenThymes]

I'd like to start out with a ranger. Any suggestions on how to go about making him useful, like with feats or possibly multiclassing him. I'm curious to know the advantages and disadvantages of doing so as well.

[Red Fel]

Okay, a Ranger. That's something one can work with.

There are handbooks out there, of course. This one (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4621.0) is nice, although if you ask me it overemphasizes archery. D&D 3.5 does a rather poor job of supporting the bowman, and the Ranger suffers for it.

You can optimize into a particular role, of course. Beefing up your animal companion is one method, attempting to justify two-weapon fighting is another, ranged combat is another. There are even ways to make the Ranger into a semi-respectable caster, if that's your goal. Be advised that people often refer to the Ranger's ability to be a "switch-hitter" - in other words, even though you might optimize him for ranged combat, he can still pick up a weapon and go into melee in a pinch.

I will say that, in the grand scheme of things, Ranger is a class that suffers. It tries to be too many things. There are other classes that accomplish something similar, such as Scout, that may suit your needs if you're open to "Ranger the concept" as opposed to "Ranger the class."

So, what is it about the Ranger that strikes your fancy?

[LyphenThymes]

I like that the ranger gets a familiar and that he can sufficiently use marksman weapons while maintaining the ability to use a bladed weapon such as the kukri. I'm also seeing the benefit of being able to cast healing magic in an emergency. It just feels to me like a ranger could be developed into a deadly efficient character if one took the time to do it right.

[nedz]

I have played the other kind of Ranger Switch hitter.

Guisarme with Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip then Quickdrawing into TWF, with Imp Buckler Defence, for full attacks. It worked quite well but, even at high level, Rangers get very few spells per day — so you need wands.

Dipping a level of Cleric can help — just choose domains which give you useful abilities — or swap them for Devotion feats.

[Chester]

Champion of the Wild is a variant Ranger that drops spell casting to improve combat. If you're worried about healing in an emergency, you can pick up a healing belt for cheap.

[nedz]

Champion of the Wild is a variant Ranger that drops spell casting to improve combat. If you're worried about healing in an emergency, you can pick up a healing belt for cheap.

Going the other way
Druid 3 / Fighter 1 / Prestige Ranger 15 gets you BAB 19 and Druid 10 casting
Druid 6 / Prestige Ranger 14 gets you BAB 18 and Druid 13 casting
Also there are a number of Ranger ACFs which can make you more Rangery, e.g. Deadly Hunter (UA, p 58) which gets you lots of things including Track — which is a pre-req for Prestige Ranger

Druid 20 is stronger, of course.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Wildshape Ranger is my favorite - and generally considered the best - Ranger variant.

If you like the fluff of Ranger but don't necessarily want to be a caster, why not consider the ranged Barbarian from UA? You lose Rage and gain the Archery style from the Ranger class. Granted, this will be pretty darn weak; Archery isn't particularly good. But hey, that might be the game you're in.

[LyphenThymes]

So far I haven't been able to find anyone around me that plays. Maybe you could break down for me all the capitalized acronyms? I don't mean to sound unintelligent, but I am literally starting from scratch. Maybe you could see me as a beginner again, with very little knowledge as to how and what I'm doing, but also recognize that I'm very eager to learn and play in the correct fashion.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Here's a resource for you: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary

Other than that...

AB - attack bonus
BAB - base attack bonus
AC - armor class
CL - caster level
xdy - X number of Y-sided dice
ECL - effective character level
LA - level adjustment
HD - hit die (hit dice)
RHD - racial hit die
Ex - extraordinary ability
Su - Supernatural ability
SLA - spell-like ability

A lot of abbreviations that you see will be book titles - BoED is the Book of Exalted Deeds, PHB is the Player's Handbook.

[LyphenThymes]

Here's a resource for you: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary

Other than that...

AB - attack bonus
BAB - base attack bonus
AC - armor class
CL - caster level
xdy - X number of Y-sided dice
ECL - effective character level
LA - level adjustment
HD - hit die (hit dice)
RHD - racial hit die
Ex - extraordinary ability
Su - Supernatural ability
SLA - spell-like ability

A lot of abbreviations that you see will be book titles - BoED is the Book of Exalted Deeds, PHB is the Player's Handbook.

Ahh.. now that helps a great deal. Much thanks to you quicklyrainbow that will also help to decipher much of what I've been reading in other posts. Are there any other types of PC's that are similar to the ranger? And could someone please explain the different ranger types that have been posted already? What makes them better or worse than the average ranger?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

If what appeals to you about the Ranger is archery focus + combat versatility, the animal companion and utility spellcasting, then you've pretty much hit on the essence of Ranger-ness. Don't really worry too much about variants until you get a good handle on the basics.

Have a look-see at the Ranger Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4621.0) at Brilliant Gameologists. That ought to give you a great introduction to the basics of the class.

[Red Fel]

Ahh.. now that helps a great deal. Much thanks to you quicklyrainbow that will also help to decipher much of what I've been reading in other posts. Are there any other types of PC's that are similar to the ranger? And could someone please explain the different ranger types that have been posted already? What makes them better or worse than the average ranger?

Well, first off, the Ranger "types." Many of these refer to alternative class features (ACFs) - basically, they're options available in some books that allow you to swap out certain class features for others. This (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1151316) is a list of alternate class features for various classes - scroll down to see the Ranger list. For example, Quickly has mentioned the Wild Shape ACF from Unearthed Arcana (UA), which gains a limited form of the Druid's Wild Shape class ability and the Barbarian's Fast Movement, but loses its combat style feats.

Another "type" of Ranger is the Swift Hunter Ranger, so named for the Swift Hunter feat, which allows levels of Ranger to stack with levels of the Scout class for the purpose of calculating various class features. Scout, as mentioned, is a very Ranger-like class, which benefits from hit-and-run tactics and gains a form of precision damage, like a Rogue's Sneak Attack, called Skirmish. As an added bonus, Swift Hunter allows Skirmish damage to apply to your Favored Enemy, even if that enemy might ordinarily be immune to precision damage.

Yet another "type" uses the Prestige Ranger class, which originated in UA and can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger). It treats the Ranger class as a Prestige Class (PrC), allowing you to effectively tack Ranger abilities on top of a non-Ranger class, such as Druid or Cleric.

The advantages really depend on what you want to do. There is no "best" way to play most classes (although there are many ways that are more effective than others). For example, Nedz posted several builds using the Prestige Ranger PrC on a Druid chassis. Druids are "Tier 1" classes - that is, they're capable of doing virtually anything in the game, generally better than other classes designed to do that thing, and possess several game-breaking spells and abilities. (By comparison, the average Ranger is somewhere between Tiers 3 and 4, capable of doing one thing quite well, or several things moderately well.) Using Druid as a base gives you access to many of the Druid's more powerful abilities and spells, while still functioning like a Ranger.

As a rule, members of these forums will gravitate towards suggesting methods that involve Tier 1 classes, since they can do pretty much anything you want to do and do it well, unless you expressly rule them out.

[frogglesmash]

Are you aware of JaronK's tier system for classes (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0)? It's a useful little tool you should check out just to give you an idea of what you're working with when making a character build. It's also used quite frequently on most d&d forums so knowing what people are talking about is also nice. There's also some tier system's for prestige classes (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1573.0) and templates (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044), but they're not as widely used as the first one.

[LyphenThymes]

Alright then. Much thanks to you again quicklyrainbow and to all of you whom have contributed positively to my re education. I'll just have to immerse myself in the sources provided so far to gain a greater understanding of the game. I will definitely be posting more questions here. Maybe someone could go over the creating of a ranger character with me. Like from the start.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

There's no substitute for just playing. If you have a gaming/hobby store in your area, mosey your way down there and see if there's anything going down.

[atemu1234]

Druid 20 is stronger, of course.

As is Wizard into Rainbow Servant, but did he really ask for that?

[nedz]

As is Wizard into Rainbow Servant, but did he really ask for that?

No, it was just a caveat against the expected interventions of other posters. :smallsigh:

[jiriku]

From the start, you'll want to determine the ability score generation method. Your DM normally picks this. Methods are listed on pp.169-170 of the Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG). I recommend method 1, 2, or 4. As a ranger, you'll typically want to put your best scores in Strength, Dexterity, with good Constitution, and a Wisdom of 12 or so is helpful for getting your feet wet with ranger spells (you'll need a 14 Wisdom to cast the highest level of ranger spells, but you can always improve your starting Wisdom later, as you adventure). Intelligence and Charisma are not important abilities for most types of rangers.

By far the biggest decision to make, is to plan out your character's future development (commonly called your 'build'). D&D heavily rewards you for planning character growth in advance, and a lot of options will be closed off for you if you don't think ahead. For example, if you suddenly decide that you want the Spring Attack feat (Player's Handbook p.100) when you reach 6th level, you can't have it -- you need to have both Dodge and Mobility before you can choose Spring Attack. However, if you'd planned ahead, you could have selected Dodge as your 1st level feat, Mobility as your 3rd level feat, and you'd qualify to get Spring Attack as your 6th level feat. Deciding where to focus your character growth is up to you, but you can get a lot of good advice by asking specific questions here on the forum. For example, if you start a thread asking "how can I make my ranger animal companion as useful as possible?", we'll serve up a huge number of options for you to consider.

Back to your character. Your character starts with maximum hit points at 1st level, so you'll have 8 hit points, plus extra hit points equal to your Constitution bonus. You only roll the die to determine hit points at levels 2+.

You'll get one feat at 1st level, and (6 + your Int bonus) x 4 skill points. Your feat and skill choices will largely be determined by the build you're interested in -- feats enable or improve specific character attributes, while skills open up options for interacting with the game world.

You'll get either 6d4*10 gold pieces (gp), or a flat amount of 150 gp to buy your starting equipment. Your DM normally tells you whether to roll or take the flat amount. You'll want to buy some basic armor, probably leather armor, a melee weapon, a ranged weapon with ammunition (or perhaps a few throwing weapons), and a dagger for just in case. Perhaps you might invest in a guard dog as well. I usually try to get by with minimal equipment right out of the starting gate and start saving towards masterwork armor and weapons, which are not quite affordable for a starting character.

[LyphenThymes]

jiriku many thanks, that is by far the most detailed answer I've received. The other posts have been extremely helpful and very informative and I'm appreciative. But I must say that the page numbers and book references are priceless. It's going to take a bit of reading to absorb all of this information, but I will prevail. Many thanks to all involved!