Hearthstone 12: Costs (1) less for every poster in this thread.

[Zevox]

Welcome to twelfth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/), so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time. :smallwink:

For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/1088-list-of-quests-and-daily-quests-in-hearthstone). Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.

And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:

GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (US)
aethernoxethernox#1948
AgentPaperAgentPaper#1193
AmberVaelAmberVael#1225
AntonokAntonok#1704
AnxeGoCorral#1879
BaelotBaelot#1149
CogwheelOmegaNixon#1123
banthesunbanthesun#1782
Dancing OwlbearOwlbear#1586
Destro YersulDestroYersul#1239
D_LordVolrock#1367
Duck999Duck999#1349
DuosDoctorDapper#1491
Firedaemon33Firedaemon#1486
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
GAADGAAD#1126
GamerlordGamerlord#1612
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GanorenasGanorenas#1457
Gray MageGrayMage#1723
GrytormGrytorm#1777
HamsteTheorules#1234
HatevahHatevah#1405
HircineIllusiveMan#1616
jindra34JinRia #1770
JohnjimcoJohnJimco#1482
KarohtKaroht#1505
KishGrazzt#1417
KradeKrade#1266
LegoShrimplegoshrimp#1722
Landis963Landis963#1789
Loreweaver15Loreweaver#1199
Lunix VandalLunixVandal#1952
MacGiollaMacGiolla#1982
MathMageMathMage#1797
mistformsquirrlmistformsqrl#1430
Mystic MuseNSFJunkblade#1400
Neon KnightVultureCrook#1434
NerociteJoeKage#1852
nhbdyNohbdy#1927
OlinserOlinser#1393
OnionbreathGiantSquid#1845
otakuryogaScootaloo#1471
Pokonicpokonic#1166
QwertystopQwertystop#1897
r2d2gor2d2go#1262
RosstinRosstin#1609
SamBurkeSamBurke#1486
ShishnarfneGruschenka#1375
Stabbity Rabbit StabityRabit#1362
TemoteiTemotei#1507
Thanatos 51-50Thanatos5150#1407
TheGlyphstoneGlyphstone#1419
The Hellbugthehellbug#1216
The_JackalTheJackal#1499
TogarthAsparag#1680
Trouble BrewingHairyPoppins#1949
UserCloneUserClone #1545
VolatarVolatar#1750
YanaRaltis#1807
ZeroNumerousZeroNumerous#1913
ZevoxZevox#1522
ZmekJadeReaver #1783


GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (EU)
AdumbrationAdumbration#2419
Avilan the GreyBeardedgeek#2355
boomwolfBoomWolf#1169
DadaScrattlebear#2863
D-naras Dinos #2811
Epinephrine_SynSilverSeraph #2931
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
Frog DragonVasemmasti#2618
FyreByrdFyreByrd#2962
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GolemsVoiceCrazyCat#29897
HewhosaysfishHeWhoSezFish#2503
Hippie_VikingHippieViking#2866
Infernally ClayWinny#1904
JormengandTrianna#2529
LionheartLionheart#2440
MurmaiderMurmaider#2273
RaddishRaddish#2730
ScionoftheVoidJayPsi#2775
ShinyRocksMoodyTuskarr#2790
SilfirSilfir#2863
SlyGuyMcFlySlGuyMcFly#2562
VolthawkVolthawk#1214
WeimannWeimann#2716
WraithIllusionist#2224
XianderXiander#2814

_____________________

Well, looks like the Mountain Giant reference won our title vote this time. Pity, I actually liked "Everyone! Get in here!" myself. Oh well.


IT looks like another adventure or expansion is on the horizon. http://www.pcgamer.com/next-hearthstone-expansion-teased-for-july-22/
Wow, that was quick. Or it feels like it, anyway. It'll be nice to see a full new card set (which I'd assume is what it will be, since we just had an adventure), but I really hope this is also when they'll add a new class, too.

[Destro_Yersul]

Someone in the link was guessing that they might add tournament mode in this expansion, since the music in some teaser clip or other was from the Argent Tournament.

[Fleeing Coward]

Clearly that just means we're getting an Argent Tournament/Lich King adventure since there isn't enough bosses in just the Lich King raid :smalltongue:

[Gandariel]

So, months have passed and dragon decks don't seem to pick up any popularity.

You see Malygos Warlock sometimes, and attempts at Dragon Paladin/Warrior/Priest have been made, but none really worked.

I haven't seen Nefarian played against me in a long time, (and let us not mention Chromaggus ).

Apparently only Emperor and Patron have been successful (and maybe some other card I'm forgetting ).

Overall I suppose the expansion was a bit of a failure. We'll see about the next one.

Edit: oh, Flamewaker and Quick Shot. Yeah, still. Only some individually good cards, (which did revive some deck archetypes) and one new deck everyone hates, but the big thing (dragon decks) is still missing

[Destro_Yersul]

I think it might be that there's still just not enough good dragons. Out of 31 new cards in Blackrock, only 8 are dragons, and 2 of those are class specific. Half of them are, I think, constructed-level good. There's more in the classic set - 9 total, most of which are legendary. Once we get some more good dragons, I expect to see the decks come back.

[Zevox]

I think it might be that there's still just not enough good dragons. Out of 31 new cards in Blackrock, only 8 are dragons, and 2 of those are class specific. Half of them are, I think, constructed-level good. There's more in the classic set - 9 total, most of which are legendary. Once we get some more good dragons, I expect to see the decks come back.
From my own attempts at Dragon decks, I think that's exactly the problem. Needing to either pad out a constructed deck with mediocre cards like Faerie Dragon or Dragonkin Sorcerer, or attempt to put Twilight Drakes into decks that aren't able to support them, or even put Azure Drakes into Paladin decks (which get less out of them due to a dearth of damage-dealing spells) is the big problem with them right now.

And actually, I think another is that one of the synergy cards, Blackwing Technician, just isn't that good. 3/5 for 3 sounds strong in theory, but I rarely found it felt strong when played in constructed. Blackwing Corruptor is obviously great, but if Fire Elemental can't keep Shaman from being the least-used class in the game, it shouldn't be surprising that he can't carry a deck all on his own.

[Kish]

We've just had the primary dragon-themed expansion, so probably this is as prominent as dragon decks will get.

[Landis963]

I shall be running an experiment this month: How much gold can I accumulate over the course of a season? As such, I will be barring myself from buying new cards or arena runs or adventure wings until August, and therefore new cards will have to come from dust. What, in your opinion, is a list of cards to auto-dust?

[Gray Mage]

We've just had the primary dragon-themed expansion, so probably this is as prominent as dragon decks will get.

I feel one good dragon card can change things up. Demonlock was very niche until Imp Gang Boss showed up.

[Hamste]

So I just played a game where I drew 11 more cards than my opponent but because I kept getting starving buzzards and they kept getting good cards I lost.

[Landis963]

A very profuse thank-you to Gandariel for walking me through disenchanting, helping me build a Zoolock deck with my newfound dust, and coaching me back onto the ladder.

[Zevox]

We've just had the primary dragon-themed expansion, so probably this is as prominent as dragon decks will get.
Very bad logic, that. Blackrock having a Dragon theme in no way means they won't release more Dragon or Dragon-synergy cards - if anything, the fact that Blackrock failed to make Dragon decks a thing when it was clearly intended to may encourage them to do exactly that. And it may well not take much to make them viable. Some of the Dragon and Dragon synergy cards from Blackrock were genuinely strong (Blackwing Corruptor, Dragon Consort, Hungry Dragon to a lesser extent) and other strong Dragons have existed for a while (Azure Drake, Twilight Drake, various legendaries). They need something more for the theme to be viable, but even one card can make or break an entire deck: see Grim Patron reviving combo Warrior for the first time since Warsong Commander was nerfed, or Miracle Rogue vanishing because Gadgetzan Auctioneer's cost got bumped up by 1. I'd expect we will see them, one day, it's just a question of when Blizzard decides to try again.


What, in your opinion, is a list of cards to auto-dust?
Everything from the Hunter class? :smallwink:

Seriously, I actually do that. And if you're new, I would recommend picking the classes you least like and just auto-disenchanting things you get from those so you can focus on the ones you do. I did that with Hunter, Rogue, and Warrior back when I started (have since ceased to do it for Rogue and Warrior), and it certainly helped. Though you may consider keeping good legendaries or epics, if you think you might one day want to play the decks they're used in, just because those are so much harder to get ahold of than commons and rares.

[Weimann]

If the next expansion is Argent Tournament or Icecrown, then I'm sure Sindragosa would be a card. Then again, another high-end legendary isn't what dragon decks need.

[Pokonic]

Given the new heroes, I can't help but think this will be in the same vein as Goblins vs. Gnomes, because the Argent Tournament would work much better as another adventure, as apposed to a entire expansion, and we already have a undead-themed expansion. Pirates vs. Ninja's seem to be the go-to choice; the main advantage to that being true, from what I can tell, would be that it could cover two of the setting's main expansions.

The 'pirates' could include various creatures associated with water in general; Northrend has the Tuskarr, Gorlocs, and Vrykul, which are walrus-people, powerful murlocs, and half giant vikings respectively. On the other hand, the 'ninjas' could easily cover much of Pandaria in general. It could be a very efficient release!

[Kish]

The Argent Tournament didn't have nearly enough bosses to qualify as an adventure.

Icecrown Citadel did, but it might have too much similarity to Naxxramas. We have an undead-themed adventure (Naxxramas); the only expansion we've had so far is Goblins vs. Gnomes.

[The Glyphstone]

I could see a full-on Snows of Northrend expansion. Undead, Vrykul, Kvaldir, Gorlocs, Tuskarr, Earthen and Iron Dwarves - lots of variety there.

And it could lead into an Ulduar adventure, which would be the Best Thing Ever.

[Destro_Yersul]

We've just had the primary dragon-themed expansion, so probably this is as prominent as dragon decks will get.

Caverns of Time involves the Bronze dragonflight pretty heavily, so we could see some more if they do that. I expect there'll be more dragon cards here and there as time goes on.

[Rosstin]

Imagine if Ragnaros, Kel-thuzad, and Sneeds were dragons. THEN Dragon Decks would work. That sounds a bit crazy but it could totally happen in the sense that, Blizzard just needs to release some good legendary dragons down the line and we could be back in business. I feel like another really good synergy card could make it happen, too.

[Mando Knight]

Imagine if Ragnaros, Kel-thuzad, and Sneeds were dragons. THEN Dragon Decks would work. That sounds a bit crazy but it could totally happen in the sense that, Blizzard just needs to release some good legendary dragons down the line and we could be back in business. I feel like another really good synergy card could make it happen, too.
A Dragon on par with El Señor Bum would make a dragon deck almost-viable all on its own.

[Zevox]

Imagine if Ragnaros, Kel-thuzad, and Sneeds were dragons. THEN Dragon Decks would work.

A Dragon on par with El Señor Bum would make a dragon deck almost-viable all on its own.
I wouldn't be sure of that at all. I don't think lack of strong late-game is Dragon decks' problem right now. If anything, it's the reverse: all of the good Dragon cards are cost 4+, and the one cheaper synergy card, Blackwing Technician, doesn't seem strong enough. (Well, there is Twilight Whelp, but its problem is that having it and another Dragon on turn 1 is kind of hard without more good Dragons in general - and much like Zombie Chow, it only really shines on turn 1, since a 2/3 for 1 much later than that rarely has a significant impact.)

[Landis963]

Everything from the Hunter class? :smallwink:

Seriously, I actually do that. And if you're new, I would recommend picking the classes you least like and just auto-disenchanting things you get from those so you can focus on the ones you do. I did that with Hunter, Rogue, and Warrior back when I started (have since ceased to do it for Rogue and Warrior), and it certainly helped. Though you may consider keeping good legendaries or epics, if you think you might one day want to play the decks they're used in, just because those are so much harder to get ahold of than commons and rares.

Can't afford to do that with more than two classes, not if I'm to wring the max amount of gold out of this month's playtime.

[Gandariel]

I wouldn't be sure of that at all. I don't think lack of strong late-game is Dragon decks' problem right now. If anything, it's the reverse: all of the good Dragon cards are cost 4+, and the one cheaper synergy card, Blackwing Technician, doesn't seem strong enough. (Well, there is Twilight Whelp, but its problem is that having it and another Dragon on turn 1 is kind of hard without more good Dragons in general - and much like Zombie Chow, it only really shines on turn 1, since a 2/3 for 1 much later than that rarely has a significant impact.)

Agreed. Even if all the 8+ cards in the game became Dragons it wouldn't matter.

There are enough solid high end Dragons: What we need is *low* cost stuff

[Grytorm]

Well, today I did something stupid. I crafted a second Steemweedle Sniper for a horrible controlish beast hunter. It runs a Core Hound and two Tundra Rhino. Note Tundra Rhino if it sticks does really scary things, it isn't really good, but it is kind of good.

[MacGiolla]

So I had one of my craziest matches ever. I am playing a warrior control dragon deck. I was playing a priest who got lore walker cho from a shredder. Emperor Thurrasian got mind controlled back and forth three times. My opponent made a pretty good move by playing off a couple of shield slams to fill up my hand before the final mind control.

A chromaggnus gave me two shield maidens that allowed me to use those shield slams to clear his board. A power word death that cho gave me helped to seal the win.

Not really doing it justice but fortunately my brother was spectating so I had a witness.

[AmberVael]

I decided to do a Hunter Arena, and scooped 7 wins with it. This makes the third time in a row I've managed 7 wins with hunter, and before that... I'm pretty sure before that was actually my first hunter arena. I guess I'm saying I don't play hunter in arena much (or in constructed, for that matter- I despise hunter) but for some reason (luck?) I seem to be doing quite decently with it.

I'm a little weirded out.

[Grytorm]

On a whim I decided to test this deck-list out. Any prediction on how far I can rise while I play this? Currently at rank seventeen.


2 Timberwolf
2 Young Dragonhawk
2 Freezing Trap
2 Haunted Creeper
2 Mad Scientist
2 Ironbeak Owl
2 Loot Hoarder
2 Eaglehorn Bow
2 Animal Companion
2 Kill Command
1 Unleash the Hounds
2 Gnomish Inventor
1 Houndmaster
2 Sludge Belcher
2 Tundra Rhino
1 Antique Healbot
1 Emperor Thaurissan

[Gandariel]

Your deck doesn't know what It wants to do.

Thaurissan is simply wrong, it's definitely the wrong kind of deck to use it. No expensive cards, no expensive combos.

Healbot has a similar feel to me. Why?

I would just remove both and add Highmanes (if you don't have them, pretty much any good offensive cards for the slot will do)

Definitely add a second Hound master. Really strong, and you have more than enough beasts to ensure he works.

Dragon hawk and Timber... well. I'll tell you that is too weak to work as a combo, but you probably already know that. :P

incidentally, those cards were important combo pieces back when UtH was very very overpowered. It used to cost 2 and say " your beasts gain +1 Attack and Charge".

Games ended on turn seven when Buzzard (several 1-cost creatures )- UtH hit.

(Buzzard was a 2-mana 2/2, by the way)

Anyways. I would add Glaivezooka for more combo. And because it's a good card

So in short, Glauvezooka, Hound master, Highmane IN. Emperor, Healbot, (whatever) out

[otakuryoga]

aye..you should never have a full hand for emperor to hit with his power

maybe change him to Loatheb (or highmane as said)

[Anxe]

I'I'd bet rank 15 for that deck.

[Zevox]

incidentally, those cards were important combo pieces back when UtH was very very overpowered. It used to cost 2 and say " your beasts gain +1 Attack and Charge".
Actually, it was cost 1 when it did that.


(Buzzard was a 2-mana 2/2, by the way)
Was it a 2/2 at some point? I only ever recall it being a 2/1.

[Pokonic]

This is currently my 'main' Warlock deck; so far, it's done very well. Would like a critique on it, of course.

Corruption
Mortal Coil x2
Darkbomb x2
Kobold Geomancer x2
Drain Life
Shadow Bolt x2
Hellfire x2
Imp-Splosion x2
Shadowflame x2
Ogre Magi x2
Twilight Drake x2
*Bane of Doom
Antique Healbot
*Azure Drake
Emperor Thaurisson
Volcanic Drake x2
Chromaggus
**Majordomo
Molten Giant x2

* Only one copy of each

** Not really the 'optimum' choice, but I lack both of the Warlock legendaries and as this deck has several ways of triggering it when I need to, it's been working fine.

[Gray Mage]

This is currently my 'main' Warlock deck; so far, it's done very well. Would like a critique on it, of course.


Way I see it, I'm not very sure what you want of of your deck. You have a lot of spell damage and spells, but few spells that can be used to kill an oponent. You have Moltens and Majordomo (so, low health desired), but no taunt giver, making you very vulnerable. You also have very few minions other then these, and all of them get at 1 HP with hellfire (or dead if one of the 5 spell damage is on the field). I don't think Azure Drakes are that good for you, as Warlock is the only class with no issues with card draw. Also, I doubt Corruption is being that good for you.

[Gandariel]

This is currently my 'main' Warlock deck; so far, it's done very well. Would like a critique on it, of course.

Corruption
Mortal Coil x2
Darkbomb x2
Kobold Geomancer x2
Drain Life
Shadow Bolt x2
Hellfire x2
Imp-Splosion x2
Shadowflame x2
Ogre Magi x2
Twilight Drake x2
*Bane of Doom
Antique Healbot
*Azure Drake
Emperor Thaurisson
Volcanic Drake x2
Chromaggus
**Majordomo
Molten Giant x2

* Only one copy of each

** Not really the 'optimum' choice, but I lack both of the Warlock legendaries and as this deck has several ways of triggering it when I need to, it's been working fine.

Assuming you lack most other legendaries, how about Nefarian? He's definitely better than Majordomo.
Corruption is too weak for constructed, get rid of it.

You have basically no minions. Only one minion costs less than 4 mana. You do have cheap *cards*, but almost no minions.
This forces your hand to be reactive instead of proactive, which is generally slower.
Handlock can afford this because they want to tap on the first turns, to play Mountain or Twilight.
You don't have Mountain Giants, so tapping on turns 2-3 is not really worth it for you.

I'm assuming you don't have Mountain Giants (in which case, i'll just direct you to a Handlock list).
Get some cheap cards. Imp Gang Boss for sure, then either FLame Imp or Zombie Chow (depending on how offensive you wanna be)

Decks which carry Molten Giants usually also play taunt-givers for the good old combo. I highly suggest you give it a try :)

[Gandariel]

Oh well, after commenting on other people, i'll post here a deck i am trying to build:

It is control hunter. Yes, i know, it's stupid. But i wanna try it.

I've played it a bit and got to rank 13 without major trouble, the deck does sorta work.
Anyone has some criticism to improve it?

1x Freezing Trap
2x Snake Trap
1x Feign Death
2x Haunted Creeper
2x Ironbeak Owl
2x Mad Scientist
2x Steamwheedle Sniper
2x Eaglehorn Bow
2x Animal Companion
2x Kill Command
2x Unleash
1x BGH
2x Illuminator
2x Piloted Shredder
2x Sludge Belcher
2x Savannah Highmane
1x Dr Boom



Recent changes:
+1 Antique Healbot
+1 Ironbeak Owl
-1 Hunter's Mark (not seeing major taunt walls, and Owl is more reliable anyways)
-1 Explosive Shot (it's not *that* good)

Then
-1 Antique Healbot
+1 Feign Death. Let's try this

Currently considering:
Glaivezooka
Ragnaros
Sunfury Protector
Tracking

[Fleeing Coward]

Not a fan of Illuminators. You just don't have enough traps to activate them consistently.
Go Earthen Ring if you really want some heals or Harvest Golem if you don't need the heals.
I'd probably go 2 freezing, 1 snake.
Also missing Quick Shots. Maybe replace the Snipers for them?

[Gray Mage]

Have you considered Sylvanas for the control hunter?

[Gandariel]

Quick shot is not good enough for me, i think. I won't usually use the effect.


Sylvanas and Rag are the big legendaries i'd put in, but i'm afraid they're too slow and i wouldn't know what to cut.

Also considering Wild Pyros and Arcane Shots...

[Gray Mage]

I'd cut the Illuminators. I don't think the health gain they give helps you that much (antique'd be better). Maybe cut one owl as well.

[Gandariel]

Illuminator plus snake trap completely destroys face hunter. Seriously.

Also, it's an OK-sized body vs aggro anyways, so it works. I would *consider* Earthen Ring over them, but not Healbot

[Joran]

So, months have passed and dragon decks don't seem to pick up any popularity.

You see Malygos Warlock sometimes, and attempts at Dragon Paladin/Warrior/Priest have been made, but none really worked.

I haven't seen Nefarian played against me in a long time, (and let us not mention Chromaggus ).

Apparently only Emperor and Patron have been successful (and maybe some other card I'm forgetting ).

Overall I suppose the expansion was a bit of a failure. We'll see about the next one.

Edit: oh, Flamewaker and Quick Shot. Yeah, still. Only some individually good cards, (which did revive some deck archetypes) and one new deck everyone hates, but the big thing (dragon decks) is still missing

Brian Kibler came to the same conclusion. http://bmkgaming.com/dragon-paladin-how-to-train-your-dragon-consort/

He mentions that if there was a Chillwind Dragon (4/5 body) or one with taunt, it might be better, but the vanilla dragons kind of suck.

Malygos warlock is pretty popular now, basically because warlock's OP; Trump just won a tournament with it. I've seen Dragon Warrior occasionally being streamed, but that doesn't seem as popular as basic Control or Patron.

[Chen]

Quick shot is not good enough for me, i think. I won't usually use the effect.

Even without the bonus effect it's strong removal for a control deck. I mean its strictly better than Dark Bomb.

You might want to consider a Sea Giant in there. Between snakes, unleash and creepers it could work decently. I'm also not convinced feign death or the illuminators are that great. Could consider houndmaster or other taunt giver in there for a bit more protection
Something like:

-1 Feign death
-1 Owl
-2 Illuminator

+1 Sea Giant
+1 Houndmaster/Sunfury protector/Defender of Argus
+2 Quick shot

[Infernally Clay]

I have two Domination quests, which overlap with Priest wins. If I can get five quick wins with that, then, it's an easy 120 gold... But it's Priest! D':

[Gray Mage]

If you have all of BRM, Krip's Dragon Priest is decent enough for quick wins in casual.

[Gandariel]

Priest is a solid class!

2x Circle of Healing
2x Chow
2x Northshire
2x PW:S
2x Shrinkmeister
2x Wild Pyro
1x Shadow Word: Pain
1x Shadow Word: Death
2x Dark Cultist
2x Injured Blademaster
2x Auchenai
1x Holy Nova
2x Cabal shadow Priest
1x Sylvanas
1x Dr Boom
1x Megadude of Choice (Rag?)
1x Mind Control

Finish up with whatever, and replace whatever you're missing with... whatever

[Grytorm]

On a whim I decided to test this deck-list out. Any prediction on how far I can rise while I play this? Currently at rank seventeen.


2 Timberwolf
2 Young Dragonhawk
2 Freezing Trap
2 Haunted Creeper
2 Mad Scientist
2 Ironbeak Owl
2 Loot Hoarder
2 Eaglehorn Bow
2 Animal Companion
2 Kill Command
1 Unleash the Hounds
2 Gnomish Inventor
1 Houndmaster
2 Sludge Belcher
2 Tundra Rhino
1 Antique Healbot
1 Emperor Thaurissan

I cut the Tharisan and the Healbot for the Savanah Highmanes. I Cut Gnomish Inventor for the second Houndmaster and I cut an Ironbeak Owl for the second Unleash

I've gotten around 20 wins with the deck and have hit high rank 12. Reached level 60 Hunter. Although it isn't the best the Timberwolfs are actually pretty good for their synergy with Unleash the Hounds. Tundra Rhino I think is decent, not great but decent.

If I was going to seriously change the deck to be something better but still more beast themed than other Hunter decks I would cut a Rhino, the Dragonhawks and the Loot Hoarders. Adding in Knife Jugglers, Web Spinners and maybe Dr. Boom?

[Mando Knight]

I'd swap the Dragonhawks out for the Webspinners anyway. Dragonhawks need a lot of setup to do anything other than just die to ping. Webspinners are still Beasts, and replace themselves with new Beasts when they die. A "free" Bloodfen Raptor or Crocolisk isn't bad, and even a Silverback Patriarch has some use when it's given to you by a Webspinner instead of taking up a deck slot, and there's some beasts that are actually good that Webspinners might hand you, like a Scavenging Hyena or a third Savannah Highmane.

[Weimann]

The new Brawl seems crazy. :smalleek:

[Chen]

Can't access the Hearthstone site from work. What is it this week?

[Weimann]

It's called the Great Summoner Competition. Whenever you play a spell, you also summon a random minion of the same cost. So you could play Pyroblast and get a free Deathwing without drawback, for an extreme example.

On that note, stuff I found out. The order of operations is Play spell > Summon minion > Spell takes effect. So if you combo into Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, the minion from playing the spell could get the buff itself. On the other hand, the minion summoned from playing Vanish does itself get returned to the hand, so that sucks.

Also, the minion that's summoned is chosen based on the cost the spell is played for. So things like Sorcerer's Apprentice and Preparation will affect the pool it is picked from. It's a pretty interesting trade-off: you get the spell out earlier, but you also get a worse minion.

[Chen]

Do you get to make your own decks? Cause man this + oil rogue seems like a disaster. Tempo mage too.

[Weimann]

Yeah, you make your own decks. I'm having loads of fun with a Rogue right now. The many 0- and 1-cost spells gives you a great Wisp-based early game, and as you say, Oil is disgusting once you hit it. Vanish sucks though, as it removes the 6-cost minion as well and forces you to play it yourself.

[Gandariel]

I tried 30-spell Priest and Rogue. Needless to say, it was a lot of fun. Another good brawl. Nice one Blizzard!

[The Glyphstone]

I found Druid to be incredibly fun as well. Innervates and Wild Growths into Power of the Wild and Soul of the Forest, with Claws/Bites/Wraths for removal. Loatheb is basically auto-include this week.

[Zevox]

I think this is yet another "play it once and be done" for me. Such RNG, and it encourages Tempo Mage. Bleh. At least it's a free pack, though.

[thirsting]

Crafted another Mind Control Tech just for this brawl. No wins yet, two losses, but this is fun!

Hmm, do Thaurissaned spells count as their original cost, or the new lower one?

[Zevox]

Hmm, do Thaurissaned spells count as their original cost, or the new lower one?
Even temporary cost decreases like Sorcerer's Apprentice cause the summoned minion to be based on the lower cost, so I'm sure Thaurissan-reduced spells would count as the lower one too.

[Chen]

Even temporary cost decreases like Sorcerer's Apprentice cause the summoned minion to be based on the lower cost, so I'm sure Thaurissan-reduced spells would count as the lower one too.

Ah that's a good thing then. Turn 4 Prep, Sprint -> Target Dummy + War Golem would be bad :P

That said turn 4, Prep, Sprint-> Target Dummy + Piloted Shredder could still be pretty bad.

[Kish]

So, Medivh's Fire Blast is purple. (I just beat him, narrowly, as Jaina.)

[Grytorm]

Murble wurble Medivh should have been a Warlock.

I know that their are good arguments against him being a Warlock, but their are still decent reasons for him to be given what I know about the lore.

(He was possessed by a demon, practiced at least a little dark magic, and helped open the Dark Portal with Guldan)

[ShinyRocks]

I was a lot luckier with that RNG than the Webspinner one. Webspinner got me Dragonhawk, Hungry Crab, Hungry Crab again and some other junk. My opponent got Kodo, Hyena, 2 x Lord of the Jungle.

But this time I kept being lucky, mostly with my Arcane Intellect getting me a Mukla. Not entirely lucky, though, summoning a Pyromancer AND making it go off immediately isn't ideal.

[Mando Knight]

I like this one better than the spider one because you can control the spells in your deck instead of having something like 20 Webspinners and 10 random spells that may or may not be useful ever.

Plus, Pyroblast into POWER INCARNATE is fun.

I don't have quite enough cards to make a good deck for the Brawl (I'm missing the Flamewakers because I don't have the last 3 wings of Naxx, for example), but it didn't take me as many frustrating losses as the Spider one.

[Kish]

I know that their are good arguments against him being a Warlock,
Are there? I sure haven't seen them.

(I've seen crappy arguments against him being one, but really, if he isn't, then no human is. Making his Fire Blast look like a Shadowbolt just drives home "even we know his class choice doesn't make any sense.")

Edited to add: There are no Flamewakers in Naxxramas. :smallconfused:

[MacGiolla]

So are people doing only spell decks or are they including some number of creatures in their decks as well? It seems like you would want to limit the number of creatures that you have as much as possible.

[Weimann]

I've found that Paladin actually gets pretty sweet tempo from the 1-cost secrets and blessings, which also provide very nice protection for the summoned minions through Get Down and Divine Shields. You can really get a zoo going.


So are people doing only spell decks or are they including some number of creatures in their decks as well? It seems like you would want to limit the number of creatures that you have as much as possible.I'm making full 30-spell decks. I've seen decks that include synergy minions like Violet Teacher and Flamewaker, but many don't.

As a sidenote, this actually makes Deathlords pretty good, since their Deathrattle won't matter.

[Zevox]

So are people doing only spell decks or are they including some number of creatures in their decks as well? It seems like you would want to limit the number of creatures that you have as much as possible.
My one time included several synergy minions: Mana Wyrm, Sorcerer's Apprentice (though in retrospect I'm less sure if she's good, due to decreasing the value of the minion gained), Mad Scientist, Flamewaker, Violet Teacher, and Archmage Antonidas. Won on the first try, so it worked once, at least.

[ShinyRocks]

Mana Wyrm is good anyway. Mana Wyrm + Coin giving Target Dummy + Arcane Missiles killing their Timber Wolf and giving you a Zombie Chow so you've got a 3/3 and a 2/3 behind a taunt on turn 1 is REALLY good.

I was getting insane value from Mana Wyrm. Also had Flamewalker, Sorcerer's Apprentice. And Mirror Entity cos I figured if people are gonna play minions, they'll be good ones, so I may as well copy them.

[Mando Knight]

Edited to add: There are no Flamewakers in Naxxramas. :smallconfused:

I meant BRM. I don't have the last two wings of Naxx, either, though.

[Gray Mage]

Murble wurble Medivh should have been a Warlock.

I know that their are good arguments against him being a Warlock, but their are still decent reasons for him to be given what I know about the lore.

(He was possessed by a demon, practiced at least a little dark magic, and helped open the Dark Portal with Guldan)

We all know who the real alt Warlock should be:
Grand Warlock Wilfred Fizzlebang of course. :smallamused::smalltongue:

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Generally for this mode, you want powerful spells, or even medium spells, simply cause 'random X minion' can be judged and underpriced, and then you value the spell as a 'battle cry'. Like, Flame Cannon, value random 2 as a 2/2, so it's Bomb Lobber for 2 mana. Recycle, random 6 mana, get rid of a big enemy minion.

Generally, you only want minions if they fall into one of the following categories.
* Minions that 'are' spells. (Ex: Mirror Image, Power of the Wild)
* Minions that give spells (Archmage Antonidas, Nefarian)
* Minions that are strong enough to out value spells (Kel'thuzad, seriously there's a reason kel'thuzad is an arena king, where decks are 'less refined') (Hells bless alarm-o-bot and enemies that ignore it in this mode)



Honestly flame wakers and sorc apprentices are bleh. Tried them, then we learned that spell cost changes change the minion granted. So mana reduced spells give wisps, and Loatheb turns the enemy's hex into Kel'thuzad.

I REALLY wouldn't put death lords in, because A, it's a minion in your deck, and you could have like, Arcane Intellect, draw 2 cards, summon a 3/3. B, the few minions enemies will run will BE stupid crap like kel'thuzad or archmage antonidas or nefarian.

[Infernally Clay]

Mind Control is totally broken in this Brawl. I stole a taunted 7/10 Cenarius with it and got Deathwing for free. :smallbiggrin:

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Mind Control is totally broken in this Brawl. I stole a taunted 7/10 Cenarius with it and got Deathwing for free. :smallbiggrin:

I was gonna say that but I figured my post was clogged enough. Also, druid mirrors in this are derpy, like, we got to turn 5 and neither of us had played a single card except maybe a wild growth on turn 4, because I'm pretty sure our entire decks are nothing but response cards.

I do wonder when they'll run out of 'good ideas' though.

[The Glyphstone]

I was gonna say that but I figured my post was clogged enough. Also, druid mirrors in this are derpy, like, we got to turn 5 and neither of us had played a single card except maybe a wild growth on turn 4, because I'm pretty sure our entire decks are nothing but response cards.

I do wonder when they'll run out of 'good ideas' though.

They're going to cycle old Brawls into the rotation, so the shelf life will be extended a bit.




So, speculation from anyone on what the themes of the Argent Tournament expansion will be?

[Ganorenas]

This brawl has been pretty fun so far. Though I cringe when I que up against Mage/Priest now, they keep getting me with lucky minion summons. /cry

[Nerocite]

I got Cho twice in one match. Let's just say it made the game a lot more interesting.

[MacGiolla]

Fun challenge so far. I ran warlock which won but twisting nether doesn't work so well.

[Landis963]

I got Cho twice in one match. Let's just say it made the game a lot more interesting.

I think I won my first bout this brawl with Flamestrike into Prophet Velen. Let's just say that was enough of a nasty surprise to get my opponent (also mage) to concede. Pity, though. I didn't even have lethal at the time. I would have wanted to see what happened.

[otakuryoga]

id like to see em do a class only brawl
only class cards allowed

[GAAD]

id like to see em do a class only brawl
only class cards allowed

That would require either a paywall or preconstructed decks - not everyone HAS 30 class cards.
Now, limiting everyone to Basic cards on the other hand... Yeti MVP

[Anxe]

This challenge was fun, but the "play Mage or lose more often" effect made me a little disappointed.

[GAAD]

This challenge was fun, but the "play Mage Druid or lose more often" effect made me a little disappointed.

Fixed that for you.

[Hircine]

This has been the best brawl so far imo. Also Priest is completely broken I'm 8/10 with it so far.

[Fleeing Coward]

This brawl is fun. VS another mage.
Unstable portal nets me Antonidas no.1, he fireball, pings that.
Flamestrike no.1 nets me Antonidas no.2, he polymorphs that.
Flamestrike no. 2 nets me Antonidas no.3, you win this one.
And all this time I had the REAL Antonidas that I tried to mulligan away in my hand from the very start that I never got to play :smalltongue:

[thirsting]

Brawl Heroic mode: win with a deck without any spells. (I'm sure someone, somewhere is trying this already)

[Chen]

This brawl is a ton of fun. Had some nice bouts of random luck with Priest. Has 1 spell power minion on the board with a bunch of 4 health creatures on his side. Was still going to holy nova and start trading down. However the holy nova produced an azure drake which thus cleared his board and made for an easy victory.

I found warrior is pretty good too. Frothing berserkers along with charge, rampage, whirlwinds and the like end up REALLY strong. I tried Paladin too but found it was much less consistent. Too many of their spells are 1 mana cost secrets which are not that great. Still had some nice plays like lay on hands into Tyrion which was a HUGE blowout :P

[Infernally Clay]

So, speculation from anyone on what the themes of the Argent Tournament expansion will be?

Divine Shields. Divine Shields everywhere.

Also, if they miss this opportunity for the Black Knight to be an enemy hero I'll be rather disappointed. Eadric and Mariel are obvious inclusions but they're not as potentially hilarious.

[AmberVael]

I've been experimenting with mage secrets in this brawl, and they can be really fun. Counterspell and Spellbender in particular catch a ton of people off guard, and are way better than normal. Everyone instinctively expects mirror entity, but I didn't even bother with that- there aren't enough creatures being run to duplicate.

[Jormengand]

Auchenai Soulpriest+Vitality Totem+Floating Watcher is the most hilarious combo ever. All thanks to the new tavern brawl!

[Landis963]

Auchenai Soulpriest+Vitality Totem+Floating Watcher is the most hilarious combo ever. All thanks to the new tavern brawl!

Wait, what? Soulpriest turns all your heals to damage, Floating Watcher buffs itself if you get damaged on your turn, Vitality totem... oh god.

Well at the very least it's more hilarious than Lightwell+Auchenai

[Gandariel]

I've been experimenting with mage secrets in this brawl, and they can be really fun. Counterspell and Spellbender in particular catch a ton of people off guard, and are way better than normal. Everyone instinctively expects mirror entity, but I didn't even bother with that- there aren't enough creatures being run to duplicate.

In my experience counterspell is terrible because everyone runs basically 30 spells, so most of them are cheap and useless stuff you wouldn't wanna Counterspell

[Destro_Yersul]

In my experience, counterspell at the right moment blocks all sorts of nasty stuff. No flamestrike for you.

[Fleeing Coward]

I experimented with Counterspell and it's actually pretty underwhelming since your opponent still gets the creature and most of them will play around it unless they're significantly behind and they have no choice so it's really just a win more card.

[AmberVael]

So uh.

I decided to do an arena run. I got a choice of some legendaries, none that really stood out, and I picked up Feugen since he has decent stats for his cost.

I just got another legendary choice. Its up between Toshley, Flame Leviathan... and Stalagg.

Do I dare?

[Lethologica]

I guess the worst that happens is he eats a silence or Polymorph equivalent.

Still, Toshley seems better on average.

[Jormengand]

Given the competition isn't that great...

You probably dare.

[otakuryoga]

That would require either a paywall or preconstructed decks - not everyone HAS 30 class cards.
Now, limiting everyone to Basic cards on the other hand... Yeti MVP

so where is the problem? brawl has used pre-constructed decks before... just last week in fact
how soon we forget the plague of spiders..........

[GAAD]

The problem is that there are more than 30 cards for each class. They can't just dump ALL of those cards in a deck; more cards in a deck would be a Brawl in and of itself. Even with that restriction, there's still a lot of room for creativity and

wait a minute.

30 random class cards. Spells and minions. That is AWESOME.

[Anxe]

Hunter seems like it'd be pretty good in that sort of Brawl.

[otakuryoga]

The problem is that there are more than 30 cards for each class. They can't just dump ALL of those cards in a deck; more cards in a deck would be a Brawl in and of itself. Even with that restriction, there's still a lot of room for creativity and

wait a minute.

30 random class cards. Spells and minions. That is AWESOME.

theres more cards they could have put into past brawl decks than they did...oh, whatever did they do?
oh, yeah, they had someone make decks...
these spells in warlock for spider week..not these
these spells in hunter for spider week..not these
etc
etc
etc

so its not an exactly mind blowing completely out of left field idea that they would go
these spells and minions for all priest deck..not these
these spells and minions for all warrior deck..not these
etc
etc
etc

[Landis963]

theres more cards they could have put into past brawl decks than they did...oh, whatever did they do?
oh, yeah, they had someone make decks...
these spells in warlock for spider week..not these
these spells in hunter for spider week..not these
etc
etc
etc

so its not an exactly mind blowing completely out of left field idea that they would go
these spells and minions for all priest deck..not these
these spells and minions for all warrior deck..not these
etc
etc
etc

At that point they may as well just use the basic decks though.

[Wraith]

Ladies and Gentlemen, good morning.

I don't have much to say about the current brawl - I'm 3/5 with what is essentially Basic Only Druid, because Innervate-> Innervate -> Ironbark does horrible things on turn 4 even without free stuff besides - as I'm still quite new to the game and don't have much in the way of points of reference.
I particularly liked the first Brawl, for what it's worth, as I'm still grinding my way through Blackrock Mountain and had just beaten Ragnaros when I was given the chance to play as him. That was... satisfying. :smallsmile:

Which segues nicely into the body of my post; I'm STILL grinding my way through Blackrock Mountain, and have hit a brick wall at Chromaggus and would wish to petition the Playground Hive Mind for advice. I've read various generic guides and deck lists online, and frankly they're worthless - apparently it's easy to beat if you just load up on super rare 500+ dust cards and simply ignore the Brood Affliction cards until you have nothing better to play, but that doesn't fly so well when you've only been playing a couple of months and you don't have a single non-Expansion Legendary to your name. :smallyuk:

Card wise, I have all of the Naxxramas rewards but am otherwise playing Pauper Heartstone. There's a few essential (or so I thought at the time) cards that I picked up early - Ironbeak Owl, Inner Fire, that sort of thing - but otherwise I'm probably going to end up disenchanting all of my Warrior/Paladin/Hunter/Warlock cards for dust to really get going on the classes that I care about. Where should I start? What do I need? And how many of my teeth am I going to grind down in frustration while getting through this thing? :smallwink:

So.... Help me, Oh-Big-Ones - You're my only hope! :smallsmile:
Illusionist #2224 (EU)

[Destro_Yersul]

Give me a moment, I'll try to throw together a cheap basic deck that beats Chrommagus.

EDIT: I am assuming you mean normal mode Chrommagus. I am also assuming you have unlocked all of Naxxramas, and all of Blackrock prior to Chrommagus.

[Zevox]

Card wise, I have all of the Naxxramas rewards but am otherwise playing Pauper Heartstone. There's a few essential (or so I thought at the time) cards that I picked up early - Ironbeak Owl, Inner Fire, that sort of thing - but otherwise I'm probably going to end up disenchanting all of my Warrior/Paladin/Hunter/Warlock cards for dust to really get going on the classes that I care about. Where should I start? What do I need? And how many of my teeth am I going to grind down in frustration while getting through this thing? :smallwink:
I don't have much time to post right now - leaving for work in just a couple of minutes - but a couple of comments on this:

Ironbeak Owl is a good tech card, but most decks will only run one of it, if any. Unless you're playing Handlock (or maybe Face Hunter, I don't play that), it's not a card I'd consider essential.

Inner Fire is a bad card. It's too difficult to set up situations where it works well: you need either a minion with substantially more health than attack on the board, or a minion on the board and health buffs (most notably Divine Spirit) in your hand in order to make it work, and if that situation doesn't present itself, it's dead in your hand. Even if it does, you get one swing with the buffed attack score, and then might just lose the buffs to silence or the minion and buffs to hard removal. I'd advise against using it.

First thing to craft, if you haven't already: Piloted Shredder. Best common in the game, used in a great many decks. You can't go wrong throwing it into a budget deck.

[Destro_Yersul]

Okay, I just wrecked Normal Mode Chrommagus' face in.

The Deck:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/ArtemistheHunter/KillinChrommagus_zpsu0ftkq2l.png

Card Sources:
Mana Wyrm and Sorcerer's Apprentice are basic set commons, Piloted Shredder is a GvG common. Total cost for a full set: 240 dust.

Zombie Chow, Mad Scientist, Duplicate, Sludge Belcher and Loatheb are Naxx. No dust cost.

Flamewaker is from Vaelastraz, whose name I probably misspelled. If you're on Chrommagus, you already have this card.

Everything else is basic set. Once your mage is past level 10, you've got all basic cards on this list.

Here's the deal: Don't worry about Brood Affliction Red or Green too much. 1 ping to the face and healing Chrommagus' face are things which you can safely ignore in favour of establishing board control. All other Brood Affliction cards should be played on the turn you get them. Don't Squander Sorcerer's Apprentice or Flamewaker: Apprentice means Brood Afflictions all cost 0 mana, Flamewaker turns them all into mini arcane missiles. Once you've got board control, game is easy mode. Might take a couple tries, depending on your draw vs Chrommagus' draw, but it's winnable.

[Gandariel]

That list looks pretty solid. Also i added you on bnet. I can give you advice on crafting etc.

Also, as a general rule, i don't really like the idea of dusting everything from a class.
I mean sure go ahead if you never ever ever intend playing that, but there eventually comes a point when you have enough cards to make decent decks, so you're not in a hurry to dust everything.

There are a lot of cards that you should just dust, but i wouldn't dust good cards from classes i don't use much.

[Grytorm]

I just had a really close game of Warrior vs Paladin. It lasted a long time, he got me down low so I had to Alexstraza myself to stay alive. We ran out of cards. We both went into fatigue and he had me if he passed the turn. But then he didn't, and gave me the win. It was pretty cool.

[Ganorenas]

They could always include the daily quests from the tournament grounds, that would shore up the number of cards they could make. A few champion cards from some races, squares from the others. End up with a few extra named creatures.

I could see both of those worms (Acidmaw and the other one), Icehowl, the snowbold minions, that magnoton(was that what they were called?).

How about the twin Valkyr, they could have a Stalagg and Fuegen thing?

[Wraith]

EDIT: I am assuming you mean normal mode Chrommagus. I am also assuming you have unlocked all of Naxxramas, and all of Blackrock prior to Chrommagus.

Pretty much - I have so few other cards worth mentioning, you might as well just go by that.


Also, as a general rule, i don't really like the idea of dusting everything from a class.
I mean sure go ahead if you never ever ever intend playing that, but there eventually comes a point when you have enough cards to make decent decks, so you're not in a hurry to dust everything.

So Paladin and Warrior, then. :smalltongue: I genuinely have no interest in either of them, and Rogue/Hunter are pretty minimal too. I'm not big on the Gotta catch 'em all! side of the game, I just need enough decent cards to be able to throw together enough vaguely-competitive decks to have fun with.


Ironbeak Owl is a good tech card, but[....] it's not a card I'd consider essential.

At the time it was the only Silence card that I could get a hold of, and I figured that it was better than nothing. I've since come to agree with you and generally just swap it out for something like Shadow Word, but like I said - at the time it seemed sensible.


Inner Fire is a bad card.

Given how many times I've been wrecked outright by an Inner Fire/Divine Spirit/Deathlord or similar on the ladder lately, and that it was essential for how I got past Majordomo/Ragnaros, it's not as unlikely as one might think. While perhaps not as valuable as I might imagine it to be, it's a card worth having since I like having my Taunts and Cleric is one of my top 2 classes, if only for the combo and Taunt/Healing shenanigans.


First thing to craft, if you haven't already: Piloted Shredder. Best common in the game, used in a great many decks.

First time out with it, on this suggestion alone, and it wrecked everything. Excellent advice, thank you. :smallsmile:


Okay, I just wrecked Normal Mode Chrommagus' face in.

If anyone asks, I'll be sure to tell them that you're a certifiable genius. :smallbiggrin: 10+ attempts with my trusty Druid and Cleric and I got no where, but this Mage managed it first try. Even with a few misplays I never dropped below 15 life, it was great fun. A thousand 'thank you's, sir.
No doubt I'll be back again for the Omnotron, but I'm feeling much more confidant now. :smallsmile:

[MacGiolla]

Also, as a general rule, i don't really like the idea of dusting everything from a class.
I mean sure go ahead if you never ever ever intend playing that, but there eventually comes a point when you have enough cards to make decent decks, so you're not in a hurry to dust everything.

There are a lot of cards that you should just dust, but i wouldn't dust good cards from classes i don't use much.

I would also agree with this but doubly so with the advent of the Brawl. I could very easily see a brawl in the future where they allowed you to use cards from other classes, so while you may never play that class you might wish you hadn't dusted a particularly good card from a class you might not play.

[Infernally Clay]

I'm sitting on 695 gold. So do I buy the Thaurissan wing or grab five packs and an Arena run?

[Mando Knight]

I'm sitting on 695 gold. So do I buy the Thaurissan wing or grab five packs and an Arena run?

The Thaurissan wing is also the Patron wing, so I'd go with that.

[Gandariel]

I'm sitting on 695 gold. So do I buy the Thaurissan wing or grab five packs and an Arena run?

I'd say get Thaurissan. Patron warrior is a stupidly good deck that will hopefully be nerfed soon (i have seen 50-damage-bursts-from-the-hand more than once now), and Thaurissan is a great card in a lot of decks (Patron, Freeze mage, Ramp)

[Chen]

If you ever plan on spending any money on the game, use that money on expansions and gold on packs. The opposite is less efficient. If you never plan on spending any money on the game, then I agree with the above and suggest getting Emperor and Patron. Funnily enough those 50 bursts from the hand are more a result of Emperor than they are the Grim patrons (and of course Frothing Berserkers).

[GAAD]

Speaking of Emperor -
Paladin VS Priest - Full Game
1. Pass/Pass
2. Minibot/Coin - Deathlord
3. Minibot into Deathlord - Argent Protector on Minibot/Northshire Cleric - Deathlord into Argent Protector - Hero Power on Deathlord
4. Minibot into Deathlord - Truesilver Champion - Face into Deathlord - Deathlord summons Emperor T two turns ahead of curve/"You have bested me"

I REALLY wanted to ride that out a bit longer than five seconds.:smallfrown:

[Zevox]

Given how many times I've been wrecked outright by an Inner Fire/Divine Spirit/Deathlord or similar on the ladder lately, and that it was essential for how I got past Majordomo/Ragnaros, it's not as unlikely as one might think. While perhaps not as valuable as I might imagine it to be, it's a card worth having since I like having my Taunts and Cleric is one of my top 2 classes, if only for the combo and Taunt/Healing shenanigans.
You're only going to see that combo at low ladder ranks - it's simply not good enough to make it beyond that. In order to make a combo like that work consistently the deck would need a powerful draw engine, like Patron Warrior or Oil Rogue. Priest can get a powerful draw engine going with the right board and Northshire Cleric + Circle of Healing, but that's too situational to be relied upon, so Priest combo decks simply don't work out to be competitive with stronger decks.

It is much better for the adventures, but that's because you can just retry however many times you need to to get the combo, and those bosses are often set up such that tactics that work against normal opponents aren't as effective against them, so big plays like that can end up a much better way to win than usual. In normal play though, you're presumably trying to build a deck that wins as often as possible against normal opponents, and Divine Spirit/Inner Fire Priest just doesn't do that. Trust me, people have had that combo since before I started playing the game (a year and a half ago, during the closed beta), and had already come to that conclusion back then, and nothing has changed it since.


First time out with it, on this suggestion alone, and it wrecked everything. Excellent advice, thank you. :smallsmile:
You're welcome. :smallsmile:

A few other suggestions for commons:

Knife Juggler - Great 2-drop, exactly the stats you want, strong effect. Good in aggressive and mid-range decks, less so in control.
Harvest Golem - Much like Piloted Shredder, but in 3-drop form. Solid for any deck type, albeit rarely seen in high-end decks anymore for a variety of reasons.
Antique Healbot - Great for control decks that want to drag the game out, sometimes for midrange.

[Destro_Yersul]

If anyone asks, I'll be sure to tell them that you're a certifiable genius. :smallbiggrin: 10+ attempts with my trusty Druid and Cleric and I got no where, but this Mage managed it first try. Even with a few misplays I never dropped below 15 life, it was great fun. A thousand 'thank you's, sir.
No doubt I'll be back again for the Omnotron, but I'm feeling much more confidant now. :smallsmile:

You're welcome. If you need more advice on Normal mode, I'm always happy to challenge myself with budget decklists.


Knife Juggler - Great 2-drop, exactly the stats you want, strong effect. Good in aggressive and mid-range decks, less so in control.

Not disagreeing, just pointing out that Knife Juggler is actually Rare.

[Zevox]

Not disagreeing, just pointing out that Knife Juggler is actually Rare.
Derp. :smallredface:

[Jormengand]

So, the current brawl made me face the mighty Millhouse Manastorm twice, but both times I imp-loded him for 4, so it was okay.

[Landis963]

I caved and bought the next wave of Naxx: the "experiment" isn't a total loss because now I'm at 0 gold, but still.

Anyhoo.

I'm currently beating my head against the wall attempting to beat the Hunter Class challenge vs. Loatheb. Does anyone have good pointers beyond "Make good trades, kill the spores, and get lucky"?

[Wraith]

I found that the best way too beat Loatheb was to not kill the spores; at least, not just at a whim.

The gimmick is to let 2 or 3 of them build up, then pop them with a cheap and fast minion (or a spell, if you have one) while you have a couple of others ready to go for face. It takes a little bit of time to get you guys in line, but it's more about sudden burst damage than about buffing one creature at a time.

[Suichimo]

So, I just can't beat normal Kel'thuzad and it is really getting to me. I'm following every single piece of advice for Paladins that I can find and I'm still losing. Either the advice I'm getting is garbage or I am, and I hope it isn't me.

[GAAD]

So, to see how the Arena Thread has helped me draft, let's do one without any help.

Rogue (because apparently I'm good at Rogue Arena)
1. Echoing Ooze, PATIENT ASSASSIN, Preparation
2. SPITEFUL SMITH, Eviscerate, Gang Up
3. SHATTERED SUN CLERIC, Salty Dog, Ironfur Grizzly
4. Ironforge Rifleman, Dalaran Mage, DEFIAS RINGLEADER
5. Windfury Harpy, Murloc Raider, LOOT HOARDER
6. Magma Rager, GILBLIN STALKER, Clockwork Gnome
7. ACIDIC SWAMP OOZE, Thrallmar Farseer, Blackwing Corrupter
8. Cold Blood, Volcanic Drake, ASSASSIN'S BLADE
9. BLUEGILL WARRIOR, Shiv, Gurubashi Berserker
10. Argent Commander, SLUDGE BELCHER, SI-7 Agent
11. DREAD CORSAIR, Nerub'ar Weblord, Stoneskin Gargoyle
12. Fen Creeper, BLOODSAIL RAIDER, Gurubashi Berserker
13. Archmage, Volcanic Drake, PILOTED SHREDDER
14. Thrallmar Farseer, Puddlestomper, ANUB'AR AMBUSHER
15. Nightblade, MAD BOMBER, Frostwolf Warlord
16. Ironbeak Owl, Vanish, MECHANICAL YETI
17. Ironforge Rifleman, Flying Machine, Anub'ar Ambusher
18. DARK IRON SKULKER, Coldlight Oracle, Violet Teacher
19. Cold Blood, Bloodfen Raptor, BACKSTAB
20. One-eyed Cheat, Arcane Golem, DARK IRON SKULKER
21. Darkscale Healer, Lost Tallstrider, DEADLY POISON
22. DRAGONKIN SORCERER, Gang Up, Antique Healbot
23. Sap, BACKSTAB, Vanish
24. DREAD CORSAIR, Nerub'ar Weblord, Puddlestomper
25. Flying Machine, EVISCERATE, Goldshire Footman
26. SPECTRAL KNIGHT, Goldshire Footman, Core Hound
27. DEFIAS RINGLEADER, Bloodsail Raider, Cogmaster
28. Bloodsail Raider, Silver Hand Knight, BLACKWING TECHNICIAN
29. Assassin's Blade, Sinister Strike, WAR GOLEM
30. Arcane Nullifier X-21, Iron Sensei, STAMPEDING KODO

So, how do you folks think I did on my picks?

[AmberVael]

2. SPITEFUL SMITH, Eviscerate, Gang Up
AUGH! MY SOUL!


9. BLUEGILL WARRIOR, Shiv, Gurubashi Berserker
I might have considered Shiv here. I dunno, its a bit of a tossup- but you already had a good number of 2 drops, it only deals one less damage, but draws a card and can reach behind taunt.


10. Argent Commander, SLUDGE BELCHER, SI-7 Agent
You have insulted the agents, and your lights will be going out shortly.


28. Bloodsail Raider, Silver Hand Knight, BLACKWING TECHNICIAN
I think Silver Hand Knight was the choice here. You have one dragon, a 2/4 isn't great, and Silver Hand Knight is a great card.

[hewhosaysfish]

22. DRAGONKIN SORCERER, Gang Up, Antique Healbot

What buffs the Sorceror? Backstab?

[Frog Dragon]

The sorcerer doesn't need buffs to be decent, since it's still a 3/5 for 4 without, which is just about on curve. Antique Healbot is not on curve, and Gang Up is a 2 mana do nothing in arena. I'd also take Dragonkin.

[Destro_Yersul]

I think Rogue is the only class in which I value Antique Healbot over a 4 mana 3/5.

[Fleeing Coward]

Always pick eviscerate.
I'd have taken SI7 over Belcher.
Agree with Destro that for Rogue Healbot is probably the right pick due to their hero power.
Silver Hand Knight is much better than technician unless you have curve pronlems.

[Gandariel]

Agree with all. I might also have taken Blood sail Raider if the curve allowed on pick 28

[Fleeing Coward]

Got to love idiots who try to bm because they believe they can't lose after a lucky summon.

Mage vs Mage, opponent gets a Antonidas from Flamestrike wiping most of my board.
Instead of doing the smart thing and fireballing my face in, he spams Thank Yous, pings himself and casts random ****ty spells like Frost Nova on an empty board and Mirror Images to fill his hand with way more fireballs than he needs. He then uses those fireballs to remove my Wisps, Mirror Images and Baron Rivendare even though I had a secret out since turn 3 that had to be Ice Block.
Fortunately for me, I had another Ice Block in hand along with 2 fireballs and he's on 18 after pinging himself while I was still at a healthy total of 27.

I go on to win with 1 health remaining after both Ice Block triggers since by the time he realized that he could actually lose the match due to his bm, I had drawn the Frost Nova/Cone of Cold I needed to lock down his creatures.

[Landis963]

Because 3 of my main classes have 40-gold quests on them today, I decided to try out a Druid T'Ramp deck. (Taunt Ramp, to be clear).


0:XX
1:
2:XXXX
3:XXX
4:XXXXXXXXX
5:XXXX
6:XXXXX
7:X
+:XX


0: Innervate x2
2: Mark of the Wild
Wild Growth x2
Wrath
3: Savage Roar
Harvest Golem
Spider Tank
4: Swipe x2
Chillwind Yeti x2
Piloted Shredder x2
Mechanical Yeti
Sen'jin Shieldmasta x2
5: Azure Drake
Druid of the Claw
Sludge Belcher x2
6: Starfire
Boulderfist Ogre x2
Maexxna
Sunwalker
7: Stormwind Champion
8: Ironbark Protector x2



Main point of the deck is to get a wall of beefy stuff that my opponent has to expend a lot of resources to deal with. Thoughts?

[Gandariel]

That's... probably the best you can do with your collection.

Try cutting one yeti and one Stormwind Champ and adding Haunted Creeper!

[Chen]

Firstly you definitely want the second wrath in there. Maexxna is likely not worthwhile. Haunted creeper is good as is Loatheb. Suggestions (in order of priority from top to bottom IMO):

-1 Maexxna
-1 Mech Yeti
-1 Stormwind Champion
-1 Spider tank

+1 Wrath
+2 Haunted Creeper
+1 Loatheb

[Landis963]

That's... probably the best you can do with your collection.

Try cutting one yeti and one Stormwind Champ and adding Haunted Creeper!


Firstly you definitely want the second wrath in there. Maexxna is likely not worthwhile. Haunted creeper is good as is Loatheb. Suggestions (in order of priority from top to bottom IMO):

-1 Maexxna
-1 Mech Yeti
-1 Stormwind Champion
-1 Spider tank

+1 Wrath
+2 Haunted Creeper
+1 Loatheb

Don't have the second Wrath, sadly. Why not the Mech Yeti? It's a Chillwind, plus you get the spare part when it dies.

[Gandariel]

Because you have plenty enough 4s already.

Also, mech Yeti is slightly worse than regular Yeti for you.

You have no special synergy with spare parts, your opponent might.

[Mando Knight]

That's a deck with enough big stuff that if you have Thaurissan, I'd try putting him in.

[Chen]

Because you have plenty enough 4s already.

Also, mech Yeti is slightly worse than regular Yeti for you.

You have no special synergy with spare parts, your opponent might.

Yes this was exactly my thoughts on the matter. As for not having a second wrath, its a common. Time to craft it up. If you're going to be playing druid at all regularly, you're going to want that second wrath.

[Landis963]

That's a deck with enough big stuff that if you have Thaurissan, I'd try putting him in.

Don't have him, don't have the gold, and even if I did, I have 4 waves of Naxx to get through before getting to him. I did craft that second Wrath though.

[Anarion]

I haven't touched Hearthstone much in a while, but I just had a 12 win arena deck and I feel like bragging. I didn't record my whole draft, unfortunately, but it was a mage deck with a lot of strong early power. I had several good 2-drops, 2 fireballs, 2 dark iron dwarves, 2 Azure drakes, and 3 arcane intellects. Almost every game involved going hard for the face, playing out cards ahead of my opponent and damaging them while they were forced to trade, then drowning them in card advantage. If I got the opponent to around 14 life and they weren't killing every single thing I played the turn I dropped it, they were done.

Win #9 was also the best single game of Hearthstone I've ever played. My opponent was a mage deck and he dropped two secrets in the middle turns, followed by mechanical yeti, then stormwind champion, which was given taunt from his spare part when he traded the yeti off on his turn. I had methodically played around every single possible mage secret, ruling out mirror image with a pandaren brewmaster, then vaporize, then counterspell, and intentionally fireballed a crappy card instead of the stormwind champion to pull out his spellbender duplicate combo so that he got two spellbenders instead of two more champions, traded two of my 2-drops for the champion, and then ground my opponent out of the game. I killed him with 2 life left.

[Gray Mage]

@Landis: I'd say take out the Savage Roar, Harvest, Maexxna, all Yetis and Stormwind Champion. I'd put another Wrath, Spider Tank, Druid of the Claw, Sunwalker, one Mind Control Tech, one Zombie Chow and two Keepers of the Groove.
If you're going to craft Druid Cards, I'd suggest Keeper or Claw first over Wrath, as they're minions, so they're more permanent on the board.

[Anarion]

If you're going to craft Druid Cards, I'd suggest Keeper or Claw first over Wrath, as they're minions, so they're more permanent on the board.

Not sure I'd agree. While it's certainly very nice to get strong minions, wrath is a card with no real equal in the generic cards at all. It's the kind of card that critically bolsters a druid's early game or gives them an immediate response option to a must-kill card in the early to mid game. You can sub a minion for one with 1 or 2 less stat points across its body and it will do less well but will still win you the game if you get it down in a good position. You can't really make a sub for wrath.

[The_Jackal]

Not sure I'd agree. While it's certainly very nice to get strong minions, wrath is a card with no real equal in the generic cards at all. It's the kind of card that critically bolsters a druid's early game or gives them an immediate response option to a must-kill card in the early to mid game. You can sub a minion for one with 1 or 2 less stat points across its body and it will do less well but will still win you the game if you get it down in a good position. You can't really make a sub for wrath.

I may provoke some argument, but if you're so low on dust that you can't afford to craft both Druid of the Claw and Wrath, that you really don't want to craft either. Not because they're not both great Druid staple cards, but because of the economics of dust. Let me put it this way: You're a free-tier player and you want to collect the best collection you can, in the shortest period of time. What's the best use for your dust? Answer: The card you're least likely to obtain from packs. If you buy sufficient packs to craft rare and legendaries, you're GOING to wind up getting duplicates of common cards, and in point of fact, will likely get many, many rares as well. So, what you want to focus on is EPIC or better power cards. For Druid, you're looking at Ancient of Lore, Ancient of War, and Force of Nature. Because if you craft a wrath today, and then get a 3rd wrath tomorrow, you just WASTED 15 dust. The odds of you getting a third Ancient of Lore or Force of Nature are a LOT longer than the odds of getting a third (or fourth, or fifth, or tenth) wrath.

[Gray Mage]

I may provoke some argument, but if you're so low on dust that you can't afford to craft both Druid of the Claw and Wrath, that you really don't want to craft either. Not because they're not both great Druid staple cards, but because of the economics of dust. Let me put it this way: You're a free-tier player and you want to collect the best collection you can, in the shortest period of time. What's the best use for your dust? Answer: The card you're least likely to obtain from packs. If you buy sufficient packs to craft rare and legendaries, you're GOING to wind up getting duplicates of common cards, and in point of fact, will likely get many, many rares as well. So, what you want to focus on is EPIC or better power cards. For Druid, you're looking at Ancient of Lore, Ancient of War, and Force of Nature. Because if you craft a wrath today, and then get a 3rd wrath tomorrow, you just WASTED 15 dust. The odds of you getting a third Ancient of Lore or Force of Nature are a LOT longer than the odds of getting a third (or fourth, or fifth, or tenth) wrath.

I see your point and I do agree to an extent, but I feel that until you have a decent deck it is valid to craft some commons or rares, as after you have such a deck you'll get gold faster than before, which can be converted into more packs or wings. So in the end it can be advantageous.

[Anarion]

I see your point and I do agree to an extent, but I feel that until you have a decent deck it is valid to craft some commons or rares, as after you have such a deck you'll get gold faster than before, which can be converted into more packs or wings. So in the end it can be advantageous.

How much does having a good deck in one class add to wins? It covers some number of extra quests, and the general quests (win 3 games, etc.). But you can win quick games with a mage aggro deck that costs practically nothing. I played the following to rank 14 in ~one week at the end of June (when I started playing this game again)

2x arcane missiles
2x ice lance
2x mirror image
1x clockwork gnome (this was just filler)
2x leper gnome
2x mana wyrm
2x frostbolt
1x acidic swamp ooze
2x amani berserker
2x loot hoarder
2x micro machine
2x sorcerer's apprentice
2x arcane intellect
2x fireball
2x water elemental
2x azure drake

Of the entire set, the drakes are the only rares, and I just pulled them from packs, didn't craft them.

[Gandariel]

The true answer to this question is probably "it depends".


First off, if you are good at Arena, just play Arena a lot, get a lot of cards, craft legendaries you're missing for your decks.

If you're not, it depends:
It *is* true that you should be crafting mostly epics and legendaries (for probability alone)

But, it is true that you want to have *fun* when you play.

For example, would you not craft 2 Doomguards to make a zoo deck?
Two Goblin Blastmages if you wanted to play Mech Mage?

The point is, find your own compromise. Play what's fun, and craft what you need for it, knowing that ideally you should be crafting legendaries and epics.

[Tyndmyr]

How much does having a good deck in one class add to wins? It covers some number of extra quests, and the general quests (win 3 games, etc.). But you can win quick games with a mage aggro deck that costs practically nothing. I played the following to rank 14 in ~one week at the end of June (when I started playing this game again)


Good deck matters a LOT. I hit golden with Mage before my worst deck hit 30 wins, and at the time, I was optimizing for rewards, so I'd cycle any 40 gold quest regardless of what class it was for, so all classes got played a fair bit.

I top out at around rank 10, though, so I haven't quite mastered deck building yet. I'm alright, but not amazing.

[Anarion]

Good deck matters a LOT. I hit golden with Mage before my worst deck hit 30 wins, and at the time, I was optimizing for rewards, so I'd cycle any 40 gold quest regardless of what class it was for, so all classes got played a fair bit.

I top out at around rank 10, though, so I haven't quite mastered deck building yet. I'm alright, but not amazing.

One good deck matters a lot. I was asking about the incremental value of an additional good deck in another class. Which is still good (and fun if you want to play that class), but in terms of completing quests, it shortens your time on completing wins X games of class A or B and that's about it.

Anyway, following my question last night I drafted the following Paladin deck
Avenge
Noble Sacrifice
Argent Squire
Southsea deckhand
Seal of Light
Explosive sheep
Shielded Minibot
Muster for Battle
Acolyte of Pain
Raid Leader
Scarlet Purifier
Thrallmar Farseer
Blessing of Kingsx2
Consecrationx2
Arcane Nullifier X-21
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Hungry Dragon
Sen'jin Shieldmasta
Silvermoon Guardian
Fen Creeper
Venture Co Mercenary
Avenging Wrath
Frost Elemental
Guardian of Kingsx2
Ravenholdt Assassin


It's nothing amazing, but the curve is pretty solid, the top end has some good finish potential, and there are a few mini-combos like thrallmar and blessing of kings or muster and cult master. The one thing I was on the lookout for and did not see at all in the entire draft was Truesilver Champion, my single favorite (in draft at least) paladin card.

And wouldn't you know it, I'm 3-2 right now. I beat two hunters and a warlock, and lost two mirrors to paladins. Both mirrors I was winning until my opponents played not one, but two Truesilver Champions in each game and completely wrecked the midgame. I am incredibly salty about this. :smallmad:

[Chen]

One good deck matters a lot. I was asking about the incremental value of an additional good deck in another class. Which is still good (and fun if you want to play that class), but in terms of completing quests, it shortens your time on completing wins X games of class A or B and that's about it.

Good decks in a couple of classes are better for progressing than one great deck. The vast majority of your gold is going to come from quests which require a variety of decks to finish efficiently (all the 60g quests are class specific ones) not just random wins unless you're playing a LOT each day. That said, even faster way to progress is getting good at arena and making your gold there which doesn't require any deck investment.

[The_Jackal]

I see your point and I do agree to an extent, but I feel that until you have a decent deck it is valid to craft some commons or rares, as after you have such a deck you'll get gold faster than before, which can be converted into more packs or wings. So in the end it can be advantageous.

I don't agree. Your gold income is gated in Arena participation and success, not constructed. In constructed, the ladder mechanism, if working properly, tries to attain equilibrium in your wins vs. losses, so the only point in playing constructed is the fulfillment of quests that you can't/don't want to complete via the Arena. My point is that you'll complete your quests in constructed in the same rate playing vs rank 20 scrubs with a bad deck as you will playing against rank 5 veterans with a good one. The period of time when you're ascending to the level at which your deck is competitive is the only variable, and that is really only relevant for a few days at the start of the month, and moreover is LESS relevant the worse your collection.

One other thing: You don't have control of which quests you're going to get, so getting ONE good deck really only lubricates your 10 gold per 3 wins trickle. And if you're really relying on that level of grind to build your collection, I'd encourage you to just drop a $20 on the damned game, and treat the Hearthstone Developers to lunch.

[Gandariel]

In unrelated news!

I am officially offering myself for free coaching to anyone that asks nicely :)

Koalifications: not many, I haven't reached Legend (but that's frankly a matter of not being willing to devote enough time to Constructed) (or using Face Hunter :P )

Still, I have a fairly large collection (pretty much all the "good" cards), a good track record in Arena (I got all my cards mostly by being able to chain arenas) enjoy helping others and have some experience in teaching (both IRL and in the game)

Hit me up whenever you see me online, and if I'm not busy I'll probably be up for it.
I only really play on EU, so if you're NA (or Asia? Do we have Asian players here?) just PM me here or something.
Can do chat or Hangout/Skype.

Seeya!

[Sian]

would like a few comments on my current deck which i brewed the other day and are slowing pushing up the ladder as i have time for.

Divine Paladin


Redemption x2
Argent Squire x2
Leper Gnome x2
Equality x2
Shielded Minibot x2
Annoy-a-Tron x2
Knife Juggler x2
Divine Favor x2
Muster for Battle x2
Blood Knight x2
Truesilver Champion x2
Consecration x2
Quartermaster x2
Sunwalker x2
Stormwind Champion x2


Only thing i'm considering is to toss the Leper Gnome for a set of Owls, but the deck seems to be able to punch through all kinds of Taunts with no major issue via Equality or Quartermaster'ed Tokens

[Chen]

would like a few comments on my current deck which i brewed the other day and are slowing pushing up the ladder as i have time for.

Divine Paladin


Redemption x2
Argent Squire x2
Leper Gnome x2
Equality x2
Shielded Minibot x2
Annoy-a-Tron x2
Knife Juggler x2
Divine Favor x2
Muster for Battle x2
Blood Knight x2
Truesilver Champion x2
Consecration x2
Quartermaster x2
Sunwalker x2
Stormwind Champion x2


Only thing i'm considering is to toss the Leper Gnome for a set of Owls, but the deck seems to be able to punch through all kinds of Taunts with no major issue via Equality or Quartermaster'ed Tokens

I think your idea for adding owls is a good one. Not sure I'd want 2 owls though. One might be sufficient. I really don't like Leper gnomes in here though. I'd think Abusive Sergeant is better, especially with all the divine shields. I'm also not in love with Stormwind Champion. I assume you don't have the big legendaries around like Tyrion, Sylvanas or Dr. Boom. I'd have replaced Stormwind Champions with them. Also is divine favor working well for you? You do have a bunch of low cost minions for fast hand dumping, but you also have muster which can make Solemn Vigil an ok alternative. Only other card that springs to mind as possibly interesting would be coghammer.

So non-expensive suggestions:
-2 Leper Gnome
+1 Owl
+1 Coghammer

Or

-2 Leper Gnome
+2 Abusive Sergeant (keeps the mana curve the same).

Expensive changes:
-2 Stormwind Champion
+1 Tyrion Fordring
+1 Dr. Boom

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So, remember how those folks were using a neural network to generate M:tG cards? Somebody's doing it for Hearthstone (http://scfdivine.imgur.com/).


http://i.imgur.com/5eQmohE.png
Why won't he go away?????

http://i.imgur.com/zcZDlVu.png
Killed by stench.

http://i.imgur.com/aQEI1kO.png
Wonderfully subtle "I win" card.

http://i.imgur.com/6YKMm1u.png
"If I'm going down, you're coming with me!"

http://i.imgur.com/FcBbpOZ.png
This seems mildly unbalanced.

http://i.imgur.com/NDRODDE.png
An amusing mashup of two very different cards.

http://i.imgur.com/DexWEjr.png
The Spork of Doom is upon you.

http://i.imgur.com/a5fXYW4.png
ALL minions.

[Destro_Yersul]

I'm a fan of the Dread Elererer. Play moonfire and win.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's Dlead Elererer to you. :smalltongue:

Also, Innervate Loop into Starfires would work, but Moonfire to Death does have a certain elegance. How long before your opponent ragequits?

[Destro_Yersul]

Turn 2 kill is new meta.

I really love the absurd cards, as well. Some of those are absolutely hilarious.

[Weimann]

I tried the new Brawl. What exactly is the gimmick here? Just a randomly made deck?

[Gandariel]

suggestions

Agree with all he said.

Plus:

Secrets. Either add 2x Mad Scientists (and an Avenge or two) or I'd say cut the Redemptions.
(And for example add those Abusives or Owls)

I would replace Sunwalker with.... Argent commander (shield, more aggressive) or Avenging Wrath (a solid finisher) (only use one of it)

2x Quartermaster is usually reserved for very control-y decks, where you can take your time and guarantee you'll get enough value out of them.
In this deck? I'd cut one.

Consider adding Blessing of Might (if you wanna be really aggressive) and Blessing of Kings.

[Infernally Clay]

New Arena draft. No idea how it'll work out but it has three Druid of the Claw, a Hogger and the 2/2 charge treants + Savage Roar combo.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, I don't like this Brawl. There is a point of too much random, and this is it.

[Gandariel]

I... just don't get the theme of the brawl.

it is just random decks?
I played some weird mech-dragon paladin, a mage with two Flame Leviathans and some wacky cards...
I mean I could understand it if there was a theme, or an idea behind it.
but just random cards? Looks bad. Probably not gonna play anymore unless there actually *is* some theme I'm missing.

[Mystic Muse]

I played until I git the one victory required for my pack and was done after that. This might be fun to stream, but with my desktop not working right now (fan is broken) that doesn't really matter.

[The Glyphstone]

I gave up in disgust after my Shaman 'theme' was apparently Every Card Has Overload. Forked Lightnings, Dust Devils, Lightning Bolts....oh, and multiple Totemic Might.

[Gandariel]

I gave up in disgust after my Shaman 'theme' was apparently Every Card Has Overload. Forked Lightnings, Dust Devils, Lightning Bolts....oh, and multiple Totemic Might.

Well at least now you have time to judge the card contest :D

[Jormengand]

So my opponent rolled up a mad scientist, ethereal arcanist, multiple secrets, and the minions to back it up (incl. 2 Flame Leviathans and Alexstrasza) and I was sitting there with nothing but a kinda spell synergy (gadgetzan, flamewalker, mana wyrm) and not nearly enough spells to back it up. Right.

EDIT: Next up, my shaman with tons of Spell Damage+1 and one damaging spell, vs priest with Kel'thuzad and other nice things.

EDIT: Two flying machines and nothing to buff them... that said, giving me a T2 Nat Pagle and a T5 Doomhammer didn't hurt. My opponent's charging Fell Reaver, on the other hand, did.

EDIT: Rogue vs paladin, pirates everywhere for the first few turns then suddenly, none. Uhm, fair enough. All my stuff's expensive, so I only get a 6/6 Edwin off. Everyone decides to get in here on turn 7, wasting a couple of opponent's cards to get rid of the damned thing before it reproduces. Enemy just manages to win with Nozdormu to the face.

EDIT: Giblin, Thrallmar, Spellstopper/hungry dragon, Abomination presents itself as my curve, though I actually hero power a leper gnome. Hunter responds to face and we go from there. Deck reveals its true colours as patron mage not long after. Eeeeevryone proceeds to Geeet eeen heeere! Geddon leads an army of patrons into face, until Deathwing kills them all and is promptly frozen by frost nova as a puddlestomper, coldlight oracle and soot spewer stand in front of him wearing their best angry faces. Injured blademaster appears, then I face past the orc and dragon. Finally.


Yeah, not doing that again.

[Mando Knight]

Yeah, I don't like this Brawl. There is a point of too much random, and this is it.

I thought it was better at generating a curve than the spider brawl, but overall, yeah. I don't like the random deck brawls.

On the other hand, the two games I played were as Paladin, and I got Tirion in the deck both times (the first time I mulliganed him away and never saw him again, the second time I topdecked him on turn 8).

[Weimann]

Yeah, this all feels a bit lame. I wish they'd just outright state the rules on the first screen so I didn't have to infer them. I was expecting a Crossroads theme, with quilboar or centaur cards or a Mankrik legendary. The format isn't hopeless, I think I can convince myself to try it a few more times, but I'm not going to get 20 wins like last week.

[Zevox]

Yeah, honestly, I haven't had a Brawl since Nefarian v Ragnaros where I actually wanted to play it more than once to get the pack, but this is the worst. Total RNG, just hope you get lucky and your cards are actually decent to good instead of garbage to bad. Not fun at all. At least the Webspinner brawl was pulling from a limited pool of cards where most don't suck, and you got some non-random cards with each deck.

[Hamste]

Fun fact I just learnt from learning a Trolden video. If you have an aurchenai soulpriest, play tree of life that then summons a Majordomo (From it being the last brawl. Not sure if this is still what happens if it was already out) you kill everything, Majordomo activates changing your hero to Rag and it is still a draw.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Yeah, the latest brawl is really not very interesting, which is a shame since I liked the last one. When I saw the name "Crossroads" and pick a class I thought it might have decks with class cards from another class (in which case not making your own would be sensible to avoid the combinations that are far too strong or too weak), which could have been interesting, but it was not to be.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, the latest brawl is really not very interesting, which is a shame since I liked the last one. When I saw the name "Crossroads" and pick a class I thought it might have decks with class cards from another class (in which case not making your own would be sensible to avoid the combinations that are far too strong or too weak), which could have been interesting, but it was not to be.

That's what I was hoping for too. Alas, it is not to be.

Till next week then.

[MacGiolla]

Really liked last weeks brawl. Not as big of a fan of this week. Maybe since I can't seem to win any games. Finally won when my opponent left, although I like to think I was in a good position in that one.

[GAAD]

...

I like it.

:smalleek:

I'll just... leave now?

[Landis963]

...

I like it.

:smalleek:

I'll just... leave now?

Nonono, you stay. If you leave I'll be alone in liking this thing. Admittedly, it doesn't quite have the visceral thrill of that sweet Nefarian Rag, or the Summoner contest one, but I kinda like it. I'm not seeing how anything but Paladin could be viable, though.

[GolemsVoice]

It's a nice incentive to try a few other classes, but aside from that it's somewhat lacking, because in the end you basically get a random deck in a normal game. I was really a fan of the spider brwal, though.

[MacGiolla]

Nonono, you stay. If you leave I'll be alone in liking this thing. Admittedly, it doesn't quite have the visceral thrill of that sweet Nefarian Rag, or the Summoner contest one, but I kinda like it. I'm not seeing how anything but Paladin could be viable, though.

On that note my first real win was with Paladin and a Tyrian Fording.

[Anarion]

On that note my first real win was with Paladin and a Tyrian Fording.

That was the first deck I tried and a Mage polymorphed him. :smallfrown:

[boomwolf]

Definition of "screwed by RNG"

Playing the brawl, got antonadius in hand, 7 mana.
Opponent plays milhouse.
Have yet to see a single spell in my deck x_x


Also, 3 ethernal archenists, yet no secrets makes me sad :(

[ShinyRocks]

I tried the Brawl as Shaman because I like Shaman, I had a Shaman quest, and my Shaman is level 58 so may as well get some wins in. It's a lot of fun.

First was a ridiculous win. Turn 1 I played Dust Devil. Opponent coin and Totem (he was Shaman too). Turn 2 played nothing, killed totem, hit face. Opponent Totem. Turn 3 kill totem, hit face, play Mukla. Opponent concedes.

Then it was a realllly long match against a Druid. Couple of cards from fatigue. I nearly had him down (2 health). He Alexstraza'd. It went on a lot longer. I finnnally ground out the win.

Then I thought, oh, I'll brawl on my US account! Get some free cards. But you have to have a level 20 hero, so I'm grinding out wins.

I've made a gimmicky Rogue Gang Up deck. Lots of draw, plus a few minions you'd be happy to have lots of: Belcher, Healbot, Boom, Ysera. Plus Chromaggus. All the cards! Rag would be there if I had it. I'm winning, but not in the way I want. In a 'I played Gadgetzan, then Preparation, then Conceal, then next turn Healbot and Conceal' and people concede before I can clone everything. :(

[Mystic Muse]

If you promise not to use emotes, I promise not to concede against the deck when I play it, assuming you're on the North America server, and have my username.

NSFJunkblade #1400

[ShinyRocks]

If you promise not to use emotes, I promise not to concede against the deck when I play it, assuming you're on the North America server, and have my username.

NSFJunkblade #1400

N'aww. Nah, this is on the EU account. My NA Rogue hasn't even unlocked all the basics.

The only emotes I ever use are 'greetings', and well played at the end/when something is genuinely well played. And very very occasionally 'oops' when my opponent does something *really* bad. I don't normally do it, because it's obnoxious.

[Destro_Yersul]

Today I Learned: If you have 6 minions out when you play MCT, and your opponent has 4+, it will destroy a random enemy minion instead of stealing it.

[ShinyRocks]

So I'm actually feeling really bad playing the lower ranks on the NA server. I generally start at about 22 each month on the European server, (I get my card back and then give up), and the very low ranks aren't *hard*, but ... the people I'm facing on NA are just terrible. And this isn't intended as a 'woo Europe, Murrica sucks!' claim or anything - I just haven't seen plays like this for a looong time.

I'm assuming they're young kids. Which also makes me feel bad. They make inexplicable decisions like Mortal Coil on a full health Water Elemental, when they could have run a 2/1 in to a Grizzly and then used it to kill and draw. Or using Drain Life on my face, when my only minion on the board is a 4/2 Stormpike Commando. Or putting Mark of the Wild on a Bluegill and running it into a Grizzly so I just 2 for 1ed. Or turn 1 Claw to the face.

I mean, this is my deck:

2 x Frostbolt
2 x Ooze
2 x Haunted Creeper
2 x Arcane Intellect
2 x Harvest Golem
2 x Grizzly
2 x Shattered sun Cleric
2 x Fireball
2 x Polymorph
2 x Yeti
2 x Sen'jin
2 x Water Elemental
2 x Stormpike
2 x Boulderfist
2 x Flamestrike

It's not a particularly good deck. There are some sub-par minions in it. It's nothing but basics and commons. And I still feel like I'm farming. I guess I just need to get up to the point where people start squishing me. I hope it comes soon.

EDIT:

Yay, I got beaten! By a Warlock who *was* farming the lower ranks.

[squab]

So I'm tempted to try out this HeathStone thing. All I really know is that it has some vague similarities to MtG. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Gandariel]

Very quick rundown:

Yes, it has many similarities with M:tG, but it's simplified in many ways, despite still remaining deep and strategic.

There are no lands: You have one "mana crystal" on the first turn, two on the second, and so on (up to the maximum of 10).

You can only act during your turn.

Minion fighting is very different: Any minion can either attack your opponent directly or attack any one of your opponent's minions. Taunt minions must be attacked first, and Stealthed minions can't be attacked (or targeted)
Health of minions does not "regenerate" at the end of turn like in M:tG, so stuff like healing and AoE spells are much more important.

There are minions (creatures), spells (sorceries / enchant creatures) and Weapons: Equipping a weapon (to your own character) allows YOU to directly attack an enemy minion.

There are nine classes:
Each class has a hero power (an ability costing 2 mana that you can use once a turn) and a set of class-specific cards.
Your 30-card deck can contain Neutral cards and your class' cards. (limit is 2x of each card, 1x for legendaries)

That's pretty much all you need to know. Try out the game and tell us how it went!

[Jormengand]

So, remember how those folks were using a neural network to generate M:tG cards? Somebody's doing it for Hearthstone (http://scfdivine.imgur.com/).

Force Reaper is actually really, really clever (Dark Iron Dwarf + Force Reaper, anyone?).

EDIT: Incidentally, I Am Murloc + Sword of Justice is hilarious.

[GAAD]

So, just had an awesome Arena game.

Playing as Rogue, versus Priest.

And the priest silences my Anub'ar Ambusher while I have another minion on board, specifically to deny the bouncing of my Dark Iron Skulker.

[ShinyRocks]

I just got my Brawl pack on the US server. I think it might be the worst pack I've ever had: Wisp, Shieldbearer, Cone of Cold, Starfall, Wisp again.

[Jormengand]

Hey, give CoC and Starfall some credit!

[Zevox]

Hey, give CoC and Starfall some credit!
Well, Starfall, anyway. If anything that one is just barely not good enough for constructed. Cone of Cold though, yeah, it's so bad even Freeze Mage doesn't want it, and their whole strategy relies in part on buying time with freeze effects.

[Anarion]

Well, Starfall, anyway. If anything that one is just barely not good enough for constructed. Cone of Cold though, yeah, it's so bad even Freeze Mage doesn't want it, and their whole strategy relies in part on buying time with freeze effects.

It's less that it's bad and more that if you add that much buying time, you run out of room for the stuff that actually kills the opponent. And since it's the least efficient of the freeze effects, it's the one that gets cut.

[Wraith]

I think that I am officially done with this week's Brawl. I would be disappointed that the developers ran out of ideas so quickly that they got to "random decks lol" in such a short amount of time, but I'm too busy being frustrated by the lack of balance between players.

It's anecdotal, but so far I've had nothing but steamroller victories or crushing defeats, relying exclusively on getting good cards before my opponent does. Or rather vice-versa... Apparently "both players get two Legendary cards" sounds fair, until you realise that in variably means that I get Bloodmage Thalnos and Tinkmaster Overspark for three games in a row, while everyone else gets a pair of King Crushes or a Hogger and then Deathwing. I don't *think* I'm playing badly, but they were not fun games. :smallmad:

Well worth me spending all that time disenchanting crappy craps to get a couple of good ones and grinding my way through Blackrock, only not to need them.... :smallfrown:

[GAAD]

That awesome moment when the druid plays FoN-SR, and has to trade everything into one of your big guys because you have lethal. 6-1 baby!

[The Glyphstone]

I just went a very rare 8-3 with what was basically a Mech Priest deck. Cogmaster, Micro Machine, Mechwarper, Shadowboxer, Harvest Gole, 3 Tinkertown Technicians, Piloted Shredder, Mechanical Yeti, and Upgraded Repair Bot, plus assorted filler.

[Joran]

I just got my Brawl pack on the US server. I think it might be the worst pack I've ever had: Wisp, Shieldbearer, Cone of Cold, Starfall, Wisp again.

Cone of Cold was pretty good in the last Brawl at least XD

For this Brawl, I kind of like it. My favorite was probably Rag vs. Nef, while last week's was also great. The only problem I had with last week's was that I was missing a couple cards that would have made decks better (Blizzards in Mage, Lay on Hands for Paladin).

This week is pretty fun for people like my wife, who's completely free to play. So for her, she has a very limited card pool so she gets to get a fairly easy win in classes she tends not to have the cards for. She also gets to play various legendaries that she doesn't have access to. The lack of any special rules makes it a little less cool, but it does give f2p players a taste of cards they won't get to play, even in arena.

[AmberVael]

Cone of Cold was pretty good in the last Brawl at least XD

For this Brawl, I kind of like it. My favorite was probably Rag vs. Nef, while last week's was also great. The only problem I had with last week's was that I was missing a couple cards that would have made decks better (Blizzards in Mage, Lay on Hands for Paladin).

This week is pretty fun for people like my wife, who's completely free to play. So for her, she has a very limited card pool so she gets to get a fairly easy win in classes she tends not to have the cards for. She also gets to play various legendaries that she doesn't have access to. The lack of any special rules makes it a little less cool, but it does give f2p players a taste of cards they won't get to play, even in arena.

You're not really talking about free to play players here so much as any player with a smaller card collection. Not only could this include people who have spent money on the game, but it might not include some people who play without paying at all, such as myself. I'm missing 30 cards in all. I'm not exactly feeling my lack of Clockwork Giant or Hemet Nesingwary here. :smalltongue:

[ShinyRocks]

I actually used Hemet in a Brawl last night! I had lethal, but my opponent had Gahz'rilla out, so I couldn't deny Hemet the chance to actually activate his battlecry on a huge beast. It's a little BM, I know, but when am I going to get that chance again?

I also lost a brawl against a rogue, partly because I had Harrison and was waiting to use his battlecry rather than just dropping him for the body. What sort of Rogue NEVER equips a weapon?

[Anxe]

The Brawl recommended a new combo to me with the legendaries. Majordomo Executus + Prophet Velen. 16 random damage shot!

[Kish]

You're not really talking about free to play players here so much as any player with a smaller card collection. Not only could this include people who have spent money on the game, but it might not include some people who play without paying at all, such as myself. I'm missing 30 cards in all. I'm not exactly feeling my lack of Clockwork Giant or Hemet Nesingwary here. :smalltongue:

Indeed. I'm almost completely free to play, and the only reason I don't have all the cards by now is that my interest in the game comes and goes.

(I'm also thrown by the "even in arena" line--your collection doesn't influence your arena picks in any way.)

[Anxe]

I think what was meant is that the Brawl gives access to more legendaries than Arena and more cards faster. Your deck in Arena is hopefully the same for 14 games. It's different every game in the Brawl. You can get three legendaries in an Arena draft, but you're honestly lucky to get one. You get two for sure in the Brawl and they change every game.

[Anarion]

Random etiquette question. I usually use the well played emote right before I concede if I've lost or on my turn when I have the win on board/guaranteed in hand. Recently, a bunch of people have been throwing out the well-played emote when it's my turn after I've played a couple minions or something and I feel like it comes across more as "you screwed up" than a friendly gesture because it's declaring that I'm done while I still have a chance to act.

Am I being too sensitive? :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

Probably. Some people use it that way in intended sarcasm, others use 'Thanks' or 'Sorry' to mock a bad play. I generally only Well Played as the conclusion to a match, win or lose, but occasionally I do use it for a genuine reversal upset that completely altered the board state - an actual good play.

[Frog Dragon]

http://i.imgur.com/QENXhK9.png

Yep. He got Savage Roar out of Nefarian and then proceeded to kill me with that+UTH.

This falls under "I ain't even mad". :smalltongue:

[Anarion]

Probably. Some people use it that way in intended sarcasm, others use 'Thanks' or 'Sorry' to mock a bad play. I generally only Well Played as the conclusion to a match, win or lose, but occasionally I do use it for a genuine reversal upset that completely altered the board state - an actual good play.

I've had it used once when I did something legitimately cool, which was in that 12-win mage arena deck I posted about last week. When I pulled out the double secrets from the other guy to avoid giving him triple stormwind champions in the late game, he gave me a well-played. I just specifically dislike someone saying it when I'm not actually done yet, hold your horses, darn it!

I don't really mind thanks/sorry, especially if randomness happens in either a really good or bad way. I'll give people a sorry as well if, say, their mad bomber kills their own imp master or something.

[The Glyphstone]

Good news: I unpacked another Legendary for my collection.
Bad news: It was Gazh'rilla. Oh well.



Also, a very weird Brawl I just had. My deck had Maexna, Illidan, Baron Geddon, Antonidas, Beast...I don't think I drew a single non-legendary minion, just legendaries and spells.

[Anarion]

I'm quite confused by this brawl. I played a Druid who played Cenarius. Then on the next turn, he played Cenarius. No bounce or copy cards were involved. He just somehow had two of the same legendary in his brawl deck.

[ShinyRocks]

I'm quite confused by this brawl. I played a Druid who played Cenarius. Then on the next turn, he played Cenarius. No bounce or copy cards were involved. He just somehow had two of the same legendary in his brawl deck.

Yep. This brawl is entirely random. I played a Pally who dropped Ragnaros. Then I Thoughtstole a Ragnaros from his deck, so I knew he had to have 2 Ragnarotes.

I played my Ragnaros. Then he played his NEXT Ragnaros. I had 2 minions with 9 health on the board, so I was surviving the sniping and my Rag took out one of his. I'd almost turned it around, and then he dropped Deathwing.

And I *still* almost had it, because I had him at like 4 health while I was on 25, so he had to waste his Deathwing turns on clearing my minions rather than going face.

And then he topdecked Blessed Champion to smash my face for 24 and pop me with his other minion.

[Chen]

I'm quite confused by this brawl. I played a Druid who played Cenarius. Then on the next turn, he played Cenarius. No bounce or copy cards were involved. He just somehow had two of the same legendary in his brawl deck.

Its completely random. No deckbuilding rules in place. I completely demolished a warlock I played against as Paladin. Dropped Tirion on turn 8. He blows like 2 cards and 2 minions to kill Tirion. Next turn, play another Tirion. He doesn't insta concede and passes the turn. Next draw another Tirion. He conceded after that one :P

[Jormengand]

Y'know, I love Jaina's attack quote. It's just a pity she barely ever says it unless you use a blingtron or unstable/sneed's->Tirion.

[Gandariel]

Or Cho/Nefarian => Muster or Upgrade
Or sylvanas/Entity/MCT => Tirion

[Anxe]

Or the infamous Sneed's -> Blingtron -> Brewmaster combo.

[Frog Dragon]

So, there was a purported leak (http://imgur.com/a/1rr7L) in the hearthstone reddit about a new expansion. Namely, Legendary Fiola Lightbane, a 6 mana 6/7 with Divine Shield... who gains Divine Shield at the start of your turn.

Yeaah.... I hope this one is fake. Boom was somewhat excusable (even if I still stand by my assessment that he is overpowered) because War Golem is a weak card, even if you're starting out, but budget decks actually use ogre and are happy with him. The primary thing that sinks ogre is that raw stats stop being able to justify a card in high-end constructed around the 5-6 mana mark. There should not be a neutral card with more stats than the ogre, AND good card text. That is textbook powercreep. Ogre is not an obsolete card.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hm. I'm hoping on a stat tweak.

Maybe they're trying to make Rend a more valuable card? Still a bad decision to have the only counter for a pretty powerful card as a conditional Legendary that's locked behind an Adventure.

[Hamste]

You wouldn't even use Rend if this became popular, you just use more spells like siphon soul, power word: death and polymorph. Of course this is a 6/7 (It would be a lot worse but still way over powered at a 7/6). Also I called (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19270582&postcount=851) something similar to that in the star wars themed create a card. It was a 2/7 but it's ability activated each turn.

[Mystic Muse]

Yeah, Rend isn't going to suddenly become useful because of one overpowered Legendary.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

You wouldn't even use Rend if this became popular, you just use more spells like siphon soul, power word: death and polymorph. Of course this is a 6/7 (It would be a lot worse but still way over powered at a 7/6). Also I called (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19270582&postcount=851) something similar to that in the star wars themed create a card. It was a 2/7 but it's ability activated each turn.
Right, yeah, what I mean is that Rend isn't able to target Boulderfist, which is literally the only upside that Boulderfist would have over this hypothetical card.

[Anxe]

It could work as a noncollectible legendary like Thaddius. While the leak pictures it in the card collection, its possible that's just how it appears when they are still in the testing phases for the card.

[Gandariel]

I call BS on that card. It's fake.

And if it is not, it's a bad decision on Blizzard's part.

I was trying to decide whether the card is overpowered or not: Sylvanas is always the benchmark here.
And... Yeah, it's really strong. Maybe on par with Sylvanas. much stronger body, more resilient to silence, slower ability.
...
Or maybe even stronger than Sylvanas.
Huh.
Anyways, i'm pretty sure it's fake, so thinking about it is not really important.

[Chen]

Fjola Lightbane was one of the Twin Valkyrs so it's at least thematically correct. I think its stats are both at least 1 too high. A 5/6 with that ability might be ok, though still very strong. Maybe even 4/6, though then I'm not so sure it'd be that much better than Sunwalker, since it lacks a taunt. I'm not sure how often the regenerating divine shield would actually come into play.

Interestingly there's a 7 mana cost card called Fordragon Blades and a 3 mana cost one called Aura Mastery in that pic too.

[Pokonic]

Hm. I'm hoping on a stat tweak.

A tweak to 4/7 could make it more reasonable.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Two thoughts occur to me, regarding this discussion.

One, "Cards Are Allowed To Be Bad" ~Hearthstone Development Team

Two, everyone thinking Flame Leviathan was fake when it was first leaked.

The major issue with this 6/7 divine shield card is that it is 'really' slow, but almost cannot be removed through mere damage, so in anything resembling a control matchup without poly/syl/death/etc it's really 'really' hard to remove, and always trades super well.

Also that it's strictly better than boulder fist ogre, but blizz has to make money somehow.

[The Glyphstone]

And let's not forget that Dr. Balanced Boom is a Legendary who is strictly better than the neutral War Golem, and Blizzard considers him to be okay. So there is definitely a factor in their thinking that Legendary status (one per deck instead of two) is apparently worth an upgrade over a non-legendary counterpart.

[Frog Dragon]

The Dr. Boom precedent does concern me, and is the primary reason I'm giving any credence to the idea that it might be real.

It bears reiterating though that upstaging War Golem is not the same thing as upstaging Boulderfist Ogre. The former is not worth running in even a commons-only budget deck, whereas ogre is actually a pretty decent card that just falls to the general issue of stats not being enough by themselves to justify playing a high mana cost card. If removal was slightly less prevalent, ogre might be a legitimate choice, while war golem would not be, primarily because it was already upstaged in its role by other high-stat high-cost drops that were overall better for their cost (such as ogre).

[Chen]

If no one plays ogre than whats the harm in making something better than it? It'll never compete with it in arena and if you're playing budget commons only this new card has no real impact anyways. It's stats still do seem too high, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure I'd run it over Sylvanas or Thaurissan anyways. I mean its definitely better than Sylvanas against an empty board, but against any type of board presence it's not nearly as good.

[Kish]

Same stats as ogre, I see. So the Legendary bonus is strictly the Divine Shield.

My advice is to console yourself that budget decks won't be running a Legendary anyway, because I can pretty much guarantee you that Blizzard's design model states "a Legendary should be better than the closest comparable common of the same cost" and does not state "a Legendary should be equal in value to the closest comparable common of the same cost, unless it's a crappy common, in which case it's allowed to be better."

(It could yet turn out to be fake just because it's not proven real, but that card is not evidence of its fakeness. The name "Fordragon Blades" is closer to being evidence that it's fake--not very close, just closer--simply because I don't remember any particular blades being associated with Bolvar in WoW.)

[Hamste]

The inherent problem is power creep. Power creep is nearly unavoidable in these type of games because if they don't release better cards they make not nearly as much money and the meta starts to stagnate. However you want the power creep to be as little as possible while still being positive. If a new card is as good as the old cards new decks can form, if a new card is better than the old cards it might be included in many decks and the meta evolves to make room for it, if a new card is much better than others cards or very innovative entire decks focused around the card might shift the entire meta (For example Patron Warrior, the grim patron is very good in warrior and much better than any other card that could be in that slot. ) and finally if the new card is Dr. Boom levels of strength it is included in almost every deck and creates a whole new meta where people run big game hunter and either play decks that have no minions over 7 attack or play decks that have Dr. Boom in it. Power creep must continue to happen in order for the game to not stagnate but large jumps like this one and Dr. Boom represents is bad for the game as a whole because it needs to escalate.

[Infernally Clay]

I love my deck. Went up against a Freeze Mage. Didn't go so well for them. Wanted to see how long I could keep Thaurissan alive.

http://i.imgur.com/O8HhsqJh.jpg

[Hamste]

I love my deck. Went up against a Freeze Mage. Didn't go so well for them. Wanted to see how long I could keep Thaurissan alive.

http://i.imgur.com/O8HhsqJh.jpg

Is that what it looks like on a tablet or phone?

[Chen]

(It could yet turn out to be fake just because it's not proven real, but that card is not evidence of its fakeness. The name "Fordragon Blades" is closer to being evidence that it's fake--not very close, just closer--simply because I don't remember any particular blades being associated with Bolvar in WoW.)

Fordragon blades I believe was a polearm (presumably two bladed) that dropped off Anub'arak in WoW. I seem to recall wanting them either on my Feral druid or Hunter at the time.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Dr. Boom precedent does concern me, and is the primary reason I'm giving any credence to the idea that it might be real.

It bears reiterating though that upstaging War Golem is not the same thing as upstaging Boulderfist Ogre. The former is not worth running in even a commons-only budget deck, whereas ogre is actually a pretty decent card that just falls to the general issue of stats not being enough by themselves to justify playing a high mana cost card. If removal was slightly less prevalent, ogre might be a legitimate choice, while war golem would not be, primarily because it was already upstaged in its role by other high-stat high-cost drops that were overall better for their cost (such as ogre).
Indeed. Though I would've preferred that they just buffed War Golem (they did tweak Novice Engineer, so there's precedent for tweaking neutral cards) and I do think Boom should be weaker, I think that Boulderfist is a different case. If they want to introduce an alternative to Boulderfist Ogre, it should be an alternative with a tradeoff, not a strictly better alternative.

I guess technically the other benefit that Ogre has is that you can have two of them. :smalltongue:

[ShinyRocks]

I think it's also worth comparing this to Force Tank MAX - lose 1 Attack (which isn't necessarily bad, because of BGH), pay TWO less Mana, and have the Divine Shield refresh itself.

FTM is fairly decent (especially in Arena) because its Divine Shield makes removing something with that much health difficult. 7/7 for 8 is bad, but the Shield makes it ok. Shielded Minibot is good, even though 2/2 for is below par. But somehow this isn't paying any stat cost at all for a renewing Shield? Something seems off to me. Obviously legendaries get to have special effects, but the stats seem way off for the cost and such a strong ability.

They'll probably 'nerf' it to a 4/7 with Shield and make Priests cry.

[Kish]

Fordragon blades I believe was a polearm (presumably two bladed) that dropped off Anub'arak in WoW. I seem to recall wanting them either on my Feral druid or Hunter at the time.
Ah. Well then. I'll be surprised if it's fake and surprised if it gets nerfed anytime soon.

[Joran]

I think it's also worth comparing this to Force Tank MAX - lose 1 Attack (which isn't necessarily bad, because of BGH), pay TWO less Mana, and have the Divine Shield refresh itself.

FTM is fairly decent (especially in Arena) because its Divine Shield makes removing something with that much health difficult. 7/7 for 8 is bad, but the Shield makes it ok. Shielded Minibot is good, even though 2/2 for is below par. But somehow this isn't paying any stat cost at all for a renewing Shield? Something seems off to me. Obviously legendaries get to have special effects, but the stats seem way off for the cost and such a strong ability.

They'll probably 'nerf' it to a 4/7 with Shield and make Priests cry.

Force Max is basically a War Golem for 1 extra mana for Divine Shield. I could see this legendary being 6/7 with Divine Shield for 7 and then add the Divine Shield restoration ability as the legendary text. It also slots into the aforementioned dead zone of 7 drops that's only occupied by Dr. Balanced.

Edit: The other thing is that a card may need to be this overstated to see play without having any kind of deathrattle or immediate impact on the board. I remember thinking Trogzor was going to be OP and he doesn't see play.

[Gandariel]

I know last time all those legendaries were true...

But this one looks like a really badly designed card, so i'm still saying it's fake. Or at the very least that it will be changed before being released
Also... (http://i.imgur.com/tHwaZG2.jpg)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I know last time all those legendaries were true...

But this one looks like a really badly designed card, so i'm still saying it's fake. Or at the very least that it will be changed before being released
Also... (http://i.imgur.com/tHwaZG2.jpg)
too OP blizz plz nerf

[Infernally Clay]

So potentially we might see a 6/7 for 6 with renewable Divine Shield? The closest we have to that is the Cobalt Guardian, so I'm not actually sure if we'll get something like that since you'd pay one mana more for 4 more health and drop the reliance on deck synergy.

Curiously enough it'd be more defensive than offensive since the Divine Shield is renewed at the start of your turn, meaning you can't actually run it into anything because it won't have that shield during your enemy's turn.

[Hamste]

So potentially we might see a 6/7 for 6 with renewable Divine Shield? The closest we have to that is the Cobalt Guardian, so I'm not actually sure if we'll get something like that since you'd pay one mana more for 4 more health and drop the reliance on deck synergy.

Curiously enough it'd be more defensive than offensive since the Divine Shield is renewed at the start of your turn, meaning you can't actually run it into anything because it won't have that shield during your enemy's turn.

I would argue the exact opposite, you don't want the shield to be there on your opponent's turn because you will almost certainly break the shield with a higher attack than your opponent will meaning the vast majority of the time you will be the one breaking the shield.

[Landis963]

I would argue the exact opposite, you don't want the shield to be there on your opponent's turn because you will almost certainly break the shield with a higher attack than your opponent will meaning the vast majority of the time you will be the one breaking the shield.

But Divine Shield necessitates that the opponent use an extra instance of damage (attack, spell, hero power, whatever) specifically to take out the shield. Which can play merry havoc with trying to figure out how exactly to get rid of that 7 defense monster that's smacking you in the face for 6 a turn. Especially if there's no assassinate or shadow word deaths or whatever to fall back on. (Also, that plus taunt is bazonkers broken)

[Hamste]

The thing is, if you kill a thing by whacking it with your divine shield you have in all likelihood removed an instance of them attacking. It is essentially the same thing as if they attacked it but you get to choose who attacked instead of the opponent, hence why it is better for you to break the shield and not the opponent.

[Murmaider]

Before you get crazy ideas about alleged card leaks you should watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Xx3cGlCCI

The only thing that's missing is card text in Chinese or Russian.

[Fleeing Coward]

There's currently no card that comes in between Emperor and Frost Elemental in your collection though so if this is a fake, it is one really good fake that had alot of effort put in.

I'm going to say that it's most likely real but I'd be surprised if it wasn't tweaked abit more stat or cost wise before release.

[Hamste]

There's currently no card that comes in between Emperor and Frost Elemental in your collection though so if this is a fake, it is one really good fake that had alot of effort put in.

I'm going to say that it's most likely real but I'd be surprised if it wasn't tweaked abit more stat or cost wise before release.

It could have replaced a gold one.

[Fleeing Coward]

The guy that posted would need to have crafted golden Thaurissan, have none of the other craftable 6 drop golden cards earlier in the alphabet, be under level 57 mage and under level 51 warlock.
The collection you're looking at seems to be consistent with a test realm account with every non golden card.

[Gandariel]

Or he could have just modified the image to show those cards.

Still, thinking about it, it *could* be real. Kinda sad thing, though. Hope they nerf it.

[Murmaider]

The guy that posted would need to have crafted golden Thaurissan, have none of the other craftable 6 drop golden cards earlier in the alphabet, be under level 57 mage and under level 51 warlock.
The collection you're looking at seems to be consistent with a test realm account with every non golden card.

But the Hammer of Wrath is golden.

I wouldn't even have argued that it was fake, if it didn't fit exactly what Kripp said a week earlier in the video I posted.

[Fleeing Coward]

But the Hammer of Wrath is golden.

I wouldn't even have argued that it was fake, if it didn't fit exactly what Kripp said a week earlier in the video I posted.

Like I said, there is a slight chance it's fake but the attention to the little details makes it an incredibly good fake if it is.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm holding onto my dust in anticipation forcthe new set. GvG made me make four epics instead of a legend, because I wanted to do silly things with Recombobulator, and therefore wanted Cabal Shadoe Priests to go along woth them.

[Murmaider]

Like I said, there is a slight chance it's fake but the attention to the little details makes it an incredibly good fake if it is.

Attention to detail? You mean because it's in correct alphabetical order? Or because it's themed after an expansion everyone was already expecting? If it wasn't an elaborate fake we would not even talk about it.

Pictures taken with a phone off of a screen are doubly suspicious, because it's probably impossible to tell if it was photoshopped.

All the card leaks from GvG that then later were confirmed, were actual screenshots. The supposed leaks we got before Black Rock Mountain came out, which were taken in the same manner as Fjola, all turned out to be fake.

[Fleeing Coward]

It's the fact that it's a phone photo off the screen and looks dodgy that makes it more believable for me funnily enough.

If someone wanted to "leak" something to hype the announcement, something controversial is alot more likely to draw attention than straight screenshots since everyone expects those to be fake.

[Mando Knight]

It's the fact that it's a phone photo off the screen and looks dodgy that makes it more believable for me funnily enough.

If someone wanted to "leak" something to hype the announcement, something controversial is alot more likely to draw attention than straight screenshots since everyone expects those to be fake.

It's easier to hide flaws behind poor quality. On the other hand, something as standardized as Hearthstone's card design is easy enough to convincingly fake via "screenshot" that it wouldn't really be necessary.

[The Glyphstone]

I was one of the people who insisted Flame Leviathan was a fake, so I'm not going to pass judgement this time around.

[Mystic Muse]

I actually HAVE a Flame Leviathan and continue to insist that it isn't real. :smalltongue: