Charismatic Hero (3.5/PF)

[Rakoa]

I'm looking to make a Charismatic character, not too bright, who is not a nice person. He uses his Charisma to justify to his followers that he is doing the right thing, and there are by extension, as he bleeds the people of the world dry for their coin in exchange for his services. The only problem is that I'm having trouble thinking of a reliable build that could work, given the Charisma focus I have in mind. The thing is, he is a melee type first and foremost, formidable and deadly. I do not picture him as a lightly armoured Swashbuckler or Battledancing Bard.

The second restriction is magic. He is a mundane type, first and foremost, with the skill and natural Charisma to persuade, lie, and manipulate. My knowledge of the 3.5 system is fairly extensive, and the only class I've been able to conjure up that fits this restrictions that I have admittedly set in place myself is the Crusader, which I am reluctant to use but shall do so if forced.

My question to the Playground is thus: can you think of any alternative classes or builds that can fit this character? I would be much obliged.

Note that my mastery of Pathfinder is MUCH less so, but my group does engage in the odd game of it, and so options from PF will also be considered, though won't be as likely to work out.

[DMVerdandi]

Well, In 3.5, there isn't TOO much charisma love. Or not enough really.

A class you could look into possibly is the Marshal. Also you can learn Dragon shaman auras as well with a feat. And you can also get multiple auras on at the same time.
Take a look at the handbook.

[Telonius]

Those are some tough restrictions. Crusader focused on White Raven does sound like the best fit, though something like Marshal could do it as well. Marshal Auras are (Ex) abilities, so completely non-magical. Maybe Paladin of Tyranny?

[Extra Anchovies]

Bard 1/Marshal 1/Crusader X, maybe? You end up with only cantrips, which shouldn't be an issue, and you can take Song of the White Raven to keep your Inspire Courage going.

[Rhyltran]

Those are some tough restrictions. Crusader focused on White Raven does sound like the best fit, though something like Marshal could do it as well. Marshal Auras are (Ex) abilities, so completely non-magical. Maybe Paladin of Tyranny?

I second the Paladin of Tyranny. It fits thematically and mechanically.

[Vhaidara]

Well, I have a strong recommendation from pathfinder: Warlord, from Dreamscarred Press.

Take the warblade. Make it Cha based. Include support for any combat style you choose (native access to two handed, two weapon, mobile einhander, or archery, archetypes (acfs) allow for unarmed or sword and board).

For what you have described, I'm feeling a big standard warlord. Maybe using the Bannerman archetype, if you want to emphasize leadership over personal skill. The disciplines of choice are Scarlet Throne, which is focused on mobility and a strong enabling of einhander (combine with rapier, weapon finesse, and deadly agility (dex to damage with finesse weapons) for a des based character), and Golden Lion, which is the White Raven of Path of War, but more fun (generally more usable, but nothing as badly written as White Raven Tactics).

All of this is on the d20pfsrd, but I'm on my phone, so I can't link.

[Rakoa]

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, everyone. I never paid much attention to the Song of the White Raven, and I've never even heard of Pathfinder's Warlord, but I like it quite a bit and will definitely use it if this character ends up being used in a Pathfinder game.

As for Paladin of Tyranny, it is almost perfect. If it wasn't for the code, I would use it without a second thought. As it is, though, that code is just a huge dealbreaker.

Thanks again for all the replies!

[animewatcha]

if you can keep the alignment going for paladin of tyranny, there is the heretic of the faith feat from 3.5 to give much of the code of conduct the middle finger.

[Madbranch]

Cleric (Evangelist) with Charm domain could work. Although you'll need wis as well as charisma for that one.

[The Viscount]

Hexblade isn't very strong, but it's fitting to the concept. It has quite a neat spell list, limited though it is. It is expanded in a few other books.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It won't hurt to make him almost entirely mundane with just a few magical tricks. I would go something like Paladin (of Freedom/Slaughter/Tyranny) 3/ Duskblade 1/ Fighter 2/ Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) 4+/ whatever, and trade Ride for Tumble as a class skill (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). You'll be adding your Cha bonus to your AC and your saving throws, and Dexterous Attack combined with Power Attack and a two-handed weapon is a bit silly. You won't have a +16 BAB at 20th if you get all ten levels of Arcane Duelist, and I wouldn't consider more than four levels of it to be worthwhile.

If you're going to use heavy armor, I would strongly recommend (Greater) Heavy Armor Optimization in RoS, along with Deflective Armor from that same book. If you're not slowed down by heavy armor (Dwarf, or Warforged with Adamantine Body) then you can still use Tumble, and the build has no special drawbacks for wearing heavy armor if your few Duskblade spells have no somatic components (Lesser Deflect, Swift Expeditious Retreat, True Strike).

[Rakoa]

if you can keep the alignment going for paladin of tyranny, there is the heretic of the faith feat from 3.5 to give much of the code of conduct the middle finger.


It won't hurt to make him almost entirely mundane with just a few magical tricks. I would go something like Paladin (of Freedom/Slaughter/Tyranny) 3/ Duskblade 1/ Fighter 2/ Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) 4+/ whatever, and trade Ride for Tumble as a class skill (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). You'll be adding your Cha bonus to your AC and your saving throws, and Dexterous Attack combined with Power Attack and a two-handed weapon is a bit silly. You won't have a +16 BAB at 20th if you get all ten levels of Arcane Duelist, and I wouldn't consider more than four levels of it to be worthwhile.

If you're going to use heavy armor, I would strongly recommend (Greater) Heavy Armor Optimization in RoS, along with Deflective Armor from that same book. If you're not slowed down by heavy armor (Dwarf, or Warforged with Adamantine Body) then you can still use Tumble, and the build has no special drawbacks for wearing heavy armor if your few Duskblade spells have no somatic components (Lesser Deflect, Swift Expeditious Retreat, True Strike).

Combining these two into a Paladin of Tyranny base using the Heretic of the Faith feat, I think I have exactly what I was looking for! Excellent!! :smallsmile: