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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Mord-Sith Class V1.1



ViridianIIV
2015-07-03, 01:23 AM
Hello, this is my very first foray onto this website, and my first class made using the 5e system as well so please excuse any hiccups I may have committed! First off this is a themed class, meaning I've made it to mesh with a preconceived character type and tried my best to use the 5e rules to best mimic the class. I am interested in opinions about the balance of the class but would like to keep the class feeling as it is. If it comes down to ditching a feature because its overpowered, unless a more suitable feature that fits the feel of the class can be conceived, I will attempt to rebalanced the feature rather than start again.

All that being said this is my very first class and is as much a learning experience as intended for actual play. So please feel free to let me know what you think I did wrong, and what you think I did right.

Without further ado, the Mord-Sith!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3xUBy0mqeG1QnFpTUtQdGJDX0E/view?usp=sharing

Edit: An overall gimping of the class to improve balance. Some features have been moved around. I'd not previously been aware of just when magical items were expected to be in your possession and certain features have been adjusted to more accurately represent where the class should be at the same level. As before, don't hesitate to let me know what you think I'm very interested in having this balanced

Flashy
2015-07-03, 02:27 AM
Capture Magic is crazy OP. It's a no-save counter to any spell in the game that doesn't even cost the user's reaction? No 1st level character should be able to flat out ignore two 9th level spells a day. This is the best paladin dip in the universe. It's actually better than most class capstones.

Watchful Eye recharges on an encounter basis, which isn't a thing in 5e. Abilities are at will, recharge on a short rest, or recharge on a long rest. I'm also not sure what moving someone five feet is supposed to do since it just exchanges the regular attack for an opportunity attack as the target leaves the threatened space.

Debilitating Capture is making the already too strong Capture Magic much stronger. This should probably be replaced outright with the standard 5th level Extra Attack feature.

The improved weapon proficiency is probably fine. I'm not a fan of classes with free magic weapons, but since this seems designed for a specific world I'd say a +1 weapon as a 7th level feature is likely okay. Lose the bonus action attack part and it's probably fine.

Eagle Eye is probably fine? This class is starting to throw a lot of non-concentration buffing around though.

Improved Armor Proficiency is nuts. A free set of +2 armor and a free +2 weapon at 10th level is grossly overpowered in a system that doesn't expect you to have either. The +stat feature on the magic items is also a concept that no longer exists in 5e. Magic items now set your stats to specific values rather than giving small bonuses (Headband of Intelligence sets your int to 19, for example).

The Breath of Life is fine. A little weak, if anything.

Pain Mastery is crazy. Flat damage reduction from all sources period forever is nuts in an edition that only has type resistances. Since it's such a late feature resistance to all physical or all elemental damage might be okay. The psychic immunity should also be made resistance, if not flat out removed.

The class needs serious rewriting to bring it into balance and a number of features need to be reworked so that they fit with the edition.

ViridianIIV
2015-07-03, 02:58 AM
Capture Magic is crazy OP. It's a no-save counter to any spell in the game that doesn't even cost the user's reaction? No 1st level character should be able to flat out ignore two 9th level spells a day. This is the best paladin dip in the universe. It's actually better than most class capstones.

It actually is on reaction. I'd just failed to write that into there until I was reading over it just now, but I've already been thinking about making the whole thing on a save... that being said, this is what Mord-Sith do, they ignore Magic completely... all the time, I just put a limit on it because obviously free magic immunity is no good in a game... but I don't really feel like 2 per long rest is all that OP? I've been playing a 2-player game recently and felt like abilities with a limit like this are sort of rarely used, and as long as the DM doesn't telegraph what the spell is you may not choose to ignore the spell until it is to late? But I'm interested in hearing your thoughts for workarounds.


Watchful Eye recharges on an encounter basis, which isn't a thing in 5e. Abilities are at will, recharge on a short rest, or recharge on a long rest. I'm also not sure what moving someone five feet is supposed to do since it just exchanges the regular attack for an opportunity attack as the target leaves the threatened space.

Debilitating Capture is making the already too strong Capture Magic much stronger. This should probably be replaced outright with the standard 5th level Extra Attack feature.

I'm certain I've seen abilities that recharge per encounter, but I'll definitely consider changing it to a short rest and up the count by one or two. It was also my understanding that pushing or pulling does not result in attacks of opportunity, only a forced movement does. I'l rework this if that isn't the case.

I can always swap the attack features of the archetype to level five. Capture Magic does require restructuring some.


The improved weapon proficiency is probably fine. I'm not a fan of classes with free magic weapons, but since this seems designed for a specific world I'd say a +1 weapon as a 7th level feature is likely okay. Lose the bonus action attack part and it's probably fine.

Where does it get a bonus action attack? It should not be getting any extra attacks.


Improved Armor Proficiency is nuts. A free set of +2 armor and a free +2 weapon at 10th level is grossly overpowered in a system that doesn't expect you to have either. The +stat feature on the magic items is also a concept that no longer exists in 5e. Magic items now set your stats to specific values rather than giving small bonuses (Headband of Intelligence sets your int to 19, for example).

Gotcha. I'll muck with the stats and put them in line with 5e norms. When would be an acceptable point for characters to have +1 weapons and armor? I've not got that far into a game yet to know for sure.


Pain Mastery is crazy. Flat damage reduction from all sources period forever is nuts in an edition that only has type resistances. Since it's such a late feature resistance to all physical or all elemental damage might be okay. The psychic immunity should also be made resistance, if not flat out removed.

Psychic immunity absolutely should be set to psychic resistance but it IS only resistance to physical damage? Elemental damage does normal damage.

Thank you for your input!

ViridianIIV
2015-07-03, 08:41 PM
Updated! (See top post for details)

Alerad
2015-07-06, 08:48 PM
Hi, nice to see another Goodkind fan here :smallbiggrin:

As Flashy pointed out, some features feel a little overpowered.

I want to share my attempt at the Mord-Sith which I posted around here few months ago:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpmPBxaJU3mVmwtUXc5YU01OVE/view

For balancing the features there were a couple of things I was mindful about:
Making a class is much more difficult than making a path, so I designed the Mord-Sith as s Rogue archetype and compared it to the other 3 archetypes.
3rd level: You gain proficiency in 1 skill (for comparison Assassin gets 2 tools)
3rd level: You get Charm (for comparison so does Arcane Trickster, and can do it twice/day). With hours casting time it pretty much means once a day.
3rd level: You can create your own Agiel. It actually does less damage, but it can deal psychic damage, bypassing resistances. Also, at your DM's abjuration, it can count as magic item.
The extra damage comes from your Sneak Attack feature which is already (mostly) balanced.
9th level: You get an improved version of Counterspell, 4 levels earlier than Arcane Trickster (I'm not sure they get to choose Counterspell, but they get 3rd level spells at 13)
You can only perform it once per long rest.
13th level: You get Suggestion, which at this level is not that strong. The plus side is it lasts for several days and doesn't require concentration.
17th level: Your Counterspell upgrades to Spell Thief (same as Arcane Trickster), but you can do it 3 times between long rests.


As for your class, there are couple of observations you can work on:
Capture magic - Cha Mod / 2 rounded down is very little. Most other classes use Ability modifier or 1 + Ability modifier, always at least 1. If you want to use it less often just start with 1/day and give one or two more uses later, based on character level progression.
It is effectively a Counterspell at level 1 which is way too early. Wizards get it at level 5. Also countering Magic Missile and Power Word Kill has the same chance for success, which isn't very balanced.
Watchful Eye - +1 AC is probably ok. You can probably make it +2 AC and have it require concentration, like Shield of Faith. Does moving your ally prevent the damage? Also, as Flashy pointer out there are no encounter-based recharges in 5e. It's either short or long rest, with some high level features (Bardic Inspiration, Battle Master) giving you 1 use for free when you roll for Initiative and don't have any left.
Improved Weapons - gaining +1 magic weapon at 5 is probably fine. For +2 I'd say level 11th is a better milestone.
Improved Armor - I'm not sure many DM will be happy with this, I for one wouldn't be. Depends on your campaign but surely having a +2 weapon and +2 armor level 11 can easily put you before any other players. They also increase one ability to 19. It's like a rare armor and uncommon item in one. The abilities are also very beneficial to your class (Dex for AC/Saves, Con for HP/Saves, Cha for attack/damage/spell DC).
Pain Mastery - resistance itself is ok. Damage reduction at this level will be 9 or 10 (You *will* have 20 Charisma because all your skills require it, and you can get 19 Con from your armor). This means that a Fighter with a longsword (1d8+5) will do an average of NO damage against you (maybe 1-2 if they took the Duelist fighting style or have a magic weapon).
Dominating Capture gives your spellcasting opponent NO options for the first 3 rounds in combat (more if they fail the Stun save). Some CR 20 bosses have ONE 9th level spell.

I haven't checked the paths yet, but you can work on your base features first. Or, make it a path itself (rogue, fighter, paladin - Mord-Sith are kind of devoted).

sephorth
2016-08-16, 02:42 PM
Mord-sith are op by nature. Looks great though. Definitely adding this to my list of classes to try