DND Wizard in ASoIaF!

[Xar Zarath]

Hi there all! We all know what happens if a 3.5e wizard comes to Westeros...everyone dies period. So instead let’s see what happens in this scenario

Wizard is pure specialist, only cantrips are exempted from this (i.e abjurer only has access to abjuration spells and no other magic not even universal spells. Cantrips are still usable) Proficient with weapon (Your choice: but only one weapon)

Wizard is human, is immediately started at E6 (for now), can produce magic items but only school specific (i.e evokers can only create items with evocation magic) Also no shenanigans (wish, genies, Pazuzu, the lot!)

So how does a…survive? (see below)

Pure Abjurer 6 (only abjuration spells)

Necromancer 6 (only necromancy spells)

Conjurer 6 (only conjuration spells)

Transmuter 6 (only transmutation spells)

Illusionist 6 (only illusion spells)

Evoker (only evocation spells)

Diviner (only divination spells)

Enchanter 6 (only enchantment spells)

Let’s see who survives the game of thrones the longest! (Remember its E6 only!)

[Thealtruistorc]

Considering that the series already has a pair of high-level clerics (Melisandre and Thoros), I envision a wizard would be treated similarly. The diviner would likely be very useful, being able to portend things from a distance ("don't go to the wedding"), although the transmuter and conjurer would be powerful enough to significantly aid whatever faction they choose to join (people are terrified of dragons, imagine what fighting angels or eldritch demihumans would be like for them). The evoker would probably go down fighting, blasting people before an errant arrow nails him or somebody stabs him in the back. Abjurer could work for a small group of soldiers, but would wane in larger groups. Likewise with the necromancer, who could incapacitate people (remember, shivering touch comes online at 5th level) but would have to single them out.

But I think that the most potent wizards by far would be the enchanter and illusionist. Control is everything in ASoIaF, and nobody can manipulate people like these two. Screw with informers, take control of a lord, in general just mess with people's perceptions, and you are well on your way to the iron throne.

[defiantdan]

For survival under any circumstances I would put my bet under a few of them. conjurer is my first pick. Throwing down monsters to fight for you if only for 6 rounds is quite helpful as is the creation line plus all the battlefield control, it's a wonderful jack of all trades (even better if you make this a Shaper psion which I would prefer to a specialist wizard). My next picks would be enchanter or diviner. Namely charm person and augury will allow you to avoid most if not all hazardeous scenarios though you will never actually beat much in combat. Anything after E6 and the bets all go to Transmutation and Conjuration the game will fall apart just like any other normal D&D game with just that spell list, summon monster line + shapechange busts all the chops. Necro, evo and Abjurer are all basically useless regardless of level.

[Xar Zarath]

What level is Animate Dead? If it's available you can have a small undead force although that will kinda be tough to conceal since necromancer will only have access to necromancy spells.

Have to agree. Enchanters will thrive here. Charms, hypnotism maybe dominate? will bring everyone under control. Heck if you have Varys and Littlefinger under your spells, life will be very sweet.

[Xar Zarath]

I wonder how long a Diviner or Abjurer would survive? if they knew how to use weapons...would they survive long?

[Extra Anchovies]

What level is Animate Dead? If it's available you can have a small undead force although that will kinda be tough to conceal since necromancer will only have access to necromancy spells.

It's level 4 on the Sor/Wiz list. However, it's level 2 on the Death Master list, and since they're both arcane casters I'm sure there's a way to get it on the Wizard list at that level.

[atemu1234]

I'd put good money on the conjurer. Though there'd be no reason for him to leave his house, ever...

[Xar Zarath]

It's level 4 on the Sor/Wiz list. However, it's level 2 on the Death Master list, and since they're both arcane casters I'm sure there's a way to get it on the Wizard list at that level.

Wouldn't E6 make it difficult to get it?

[Xar Zarath]

I'd put good money on the conjurer. Though there'd be no reason for him to leave his house, ever...

with a max of 6 rounds which equals to about maybe a minute? or so...how? I mean unseen servants are good and he'd still be able to control the battlefield but still...

[Extra Anchovies]

Wouldn't E6 make it difficult to get it?

I answered that in my first post :smallconfused:

It's level 4 on the Sor/Wiz list. However, it's level 2 on the Death Master list, and since they're both arcane casters I'm sure there's a way to get it on the Wizard list at that level.

A 1st- or 2nd-level Wizard with Precocious Apprentice can pick up Animate Dead from the Death Master list. However, they lose the ability to cast it via the feat when they get 2nd-level spells, and I don't think they get to write it down in their spellbook.

I'm now wondering what ways there are to get off-class spells onto the Wizard list. That's a question worthy of its own thread.

[Bad Wolf]

Either Conjurer or Transmuter would conquer the world in under six months. Not sure about the others. If it was at least one more level, Necromancer would rocket ahead. Evoker might actually be useful, for once.

[kalasulmar]

Mechanics don't matter in Westeros, only the level of sheer "WTF?" reaction that Neckbeard can get from readers. Their survivability would be based on personality and circumstance.

The longer that trolling goes on, the more I am convinced that Neckbeard based the whole series on an RPG party of ruthless, opportunistic murderhobos. Most of the things that happen sound like stories out of one of the Bad Player Horror Stories threads.

[Randomguy]

An abjurer would probably do pretty well for themselves. Protection from Arrows, Reverse Arrows, Endure Elements, Arcane Lock, Alarm and Explosive Runes would all be useful. Magic items of Protection from / Reverse Arrows and Endure Elements would be game-changing, Explosive Runes could be used to letter-bomb people.



Either Conjurer or Transmuter would conquer the world in under six months.

How, exactly? They'd both do well, loads of useful spells to make into items, and they'd be great in an adventuring party, sure, and they'd be able to give their side an edge in combat with buffs / battlefield control, but as far as I can tell there's nothing THAT powerful.

[BWR]

Re: Transmutation and Conjuration, yeah, without access to higher than 3rd level spells they aren't quite so good strategically. Tactically (at least small scale), Conjuror is still amazing, what with grease, web, stinking cloud, glitterdust and more.
Enchanter would be strong. Not a lot of beings with immunities to mind affecting effects or ways to counteract such things and I don't get the feeling most people in Westeros have a terribly great Will save in any case. A careful and clever Enchanter could work his way up to the top in not too long.

[Silva Stormrage]

Wightpocolpyse is still possible for a necromancer or really anyone who picks up Fell Drain. So thats a thing, though a wizard has a more difficult time controlling the lead wight. :smalltongue:

Not too familiar with the setting though so I am not sure how much that matters.

[Arbane]

Wightpocolpyse is still possible for a necromancer or really anyone who picks up Fell Drain. So thats a thing, though a wizard has a more difficult time controlling the lead wight. :smalltongue:

Not too familiar with the setting though so I am not sure how much that matters.

They already have one coming.

[Thealtruistorc]

The longer that trolling goes on, the more I am convinced that Neckbeard based the whole series on an RPG party of ruthless, opportunistic murderhobos. Most of the things that happen sound like stories out of one of the Bad Player Horror Stories threads.

That's how actual warfare works; people can and will die unceremoniously if they slip up (read Machiavelli's "The Prince" if you haven't already. A good book on the topic). Everything terrible that has occured in the series mirrors some event(s) that have taken place in real fights for empires, be it Rome or England or France or innumerable other places (seriously, name one non-supernatural event from the books or show and I'll find something identical in a history textbook). Some people survive events they shouldn't have, and many others die with ambitions unfulfilled (though Martin has gotten more lenient in killing people nowadays).

(Also, Martin sort of took on the premise of a war-bred murderhobo with Victarion Greyjoy, and actually offers some interesting insights into its implications).

[Xar Zarath]

Either Conjurer or Transmuter would conquer the world in under six months. Not sure about the others. If it was at least one more level, Necromancer would rocket ahead. Evoker might actually be useful, for once.

At level 6 I wonder how they would realistically conquer the world? I mean in a battle, they would hold much of the battlefield for some time but after...stray arrow or strong fighter could take 'em down.

[atemu1234]

At level 6 I wonder how they would realistically conquer the world? I mean in a battle, they would hold much of the battlefield for some time but after...stray arrow or strong fighter could take 'em down.

Shadowpocalypse.

[5ColouredWalker]

Shadowpocalypse.

Yes, I'm sure he'd love to 'rule' a world filled with 6 int undead, with them being the only life-form other than him.
He'd rule it until he died of starvation, so for a whole 3 weeks, give or take a few.

Looking at actual spells from levels 1-3, I think the Enchanter would do best, using Charm Person to buy him the time he needed to dipplomance people. Sure, various other wizards can be nasty in combat, but you really want to be everyone's friend so that you don't get stabbed in your sleep or poisoned.

That, and you have the ability to start with a cohort, and it's always nice to have a bodyguard, be it another wizard or a meatshield.

[KnightOfV]

"No matter how subtle the wizard a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."- Steven Brust

I see most wizards scaring the hell out of the big players, winning a battle or two with giant fireballs, or summoned monsters.... then just immediately getting killed by a faceless man or poisoned wine as those in power do not like sharing. Powers are nice, but very few main characters get killed in straight up battle. I'd give best odds to the one that uses his magic the least, saving it for key moments and making friends with someone already in power rather than claiming it for themselves. There are things as scary as an E6 wizard in that world. Dragons. Armies. Wildfire. White Walkers. Faceless men. Poisoned food, skinwalkers, dire wolves, giants. The wizard needs to find their place with some allies FAST or their as good as dead faster than they can say 'magic missile'.

Mellisandra has survived as long because she made friends with a major player, uses her magic carefully, (scry and die tactics), and as the most recent book shows, is one hell of a bluffer working around the limits of her magic. And she has a bit of everything (conjuration: shadow baby, divination: avoided assassination by Davos, Necromancy: raise dead?? ~maybe~ abjuration: endure elements) She pretty much is a non specialist E6 wizard.

[Thealtruistorc]

"No matter how subtle the wizard a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."- Steven Brust

I see most wizards scaring the hell out of the big players, winning a battle or two with giant fireballs, or summoned monsters.... then just immediately getting killed by a faceless man or poisoned wine as those in power do not like sharing. Powers are nice, but very few main characters get killed in straight up battle. I'd give best odds to the one that uses his magic the least, saving it for key moments and making friends with someone already in power rather than claiming it for themselves.

"Wizards are all well and good, but blood and steel win wars"
-Victarion of House Greyjoy, A Feast for Crows (why has nobody else quoted this yet?)

This sums it up perfectly. Powerful as any one caster may be, they are a drop in the bucket during large-scale conflicts. Stannis and Beric Dondarrion can both attest to this, given that both have powerful casters on their side and are using them to great effect while still losing the war. Tywin Lannister became the most powerful man in Westeros not because he had any advantages, but because he knew how to play the cards he was dealt (the same applies to Roose Bolton, Olenna Tyrell, and Walder Frey to a lesser degree). A warlord who knows what he is doing can outmaneuver even a combined force of these wizards, because he has the foresight and rationale to understand they are a legitimate threat and will devise a strategy to play to their weaknesses.

Best way to deal with the conjurer: keep him in an area where his summons can be routed and any attempt to flee can be noticed and thwarted. For a transmuter, simply employ archers. Assassins work for pretty much all of them save the abjurer (who can likely be confined if attacked head-on). There are answers to low-level wizards that can be employed in a mundane environment.

Also, any attempt at shadowocalypse will be shut down by the Red Priests and/or faceless men before you can say "Scry and Die." These guys have been preparing for an undead attack and have the power to see events before they happen.

[Xar Zarath]

Now that I see a pure specialist can only survive for so long...what about a generalist wizard but still E6? Would such a wizard have a more fighting chance?