Pyromancer

[PoeticDwarf]

How can you make the best (lv. 20) pyromancer.
A wizard or a red/gold dragon sorcerer sounds great, but a light cleric isn't bad either. Maybe a multiclass?
It's good enough for me if he just knows enough fire spells. Of course he is a fire genasi, or maybe red/gold dragonborn.

Any ideas?

[Ralanr]

Fiend warlock that uses tome or chain pact?

[Paeleus]

Red/Gold Dragonborn Sorcerer with Red/Gold Dragon Ancestry as the archetype. Pick up Elemental Adept (fire, of course) feat. Spam firebolts, Scorching Ray, and Fireball all day.

[Ramshack]

Red/Gold Dragonborn Sorcerer with Red/Gold Dragon Ancestry as the archetype. Pick up Elemental Adept (fire, of course) feat. Spam firebolts, Scorching Ray, and Fireball all day.

literally doing this ins a campaign right now. 2 Fighter/18 Sorcerer Gold Dragon Sorcerer.

Feats Eelemental Adept, Medium Armor Mastery and War Caster

Metamagic Twinned, Quicken, Careful, Extended.

Walk around with a 20 AC In Medium Armor and a Shield.

Cast Firebolt, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Burning Hands etc.

Action Surge on Hand for potentially 3 spells in a single round.

[HoarsHalberd]

literally doing this ins a campaign right now. 2 Fighter/18 Sorcerer Gold Dragon Sorcerer.

Feats Eelemental Adept, Medium Armor Mastery and War Caster

Metamagic Twinned, Quicken, Careful, Extended.

Walk around with a 20 AC In Medium Armor and a Shield.

Cast Firebolt, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Burning Hands etc.

Action Surge on Hand for potentially 3 spells in a single round.

I have no idea how that works. Did you roll stats and get at least a 17 in Charisma? Or do you not have maxed out charisma? And remember with action surge not to use quickened spell or you can only use two cantrips with the bonus action spell.

[Naanomi]

With the EE list there are a ton of fire spells and cantrips, though not the best optimization to take them all still fun.

Again not the best optimization but consider Fire gensai

[PoeticDwarf]

literally doing this ins a campaign right now. 2 Fighter/18 Sorcerer Gold Dragon Sorcerer.

Feats Eelemental Adept, Medium Armor Mastery and War Caster

Metamagic Twinned, Quicken, Careful, Extended.

Walk around with a 20 AC In Medium Armor and a Shield.

Cast Firebolt, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Burning Hands etc.

Action Surge on Hand for potentially 3 spells in a single round.

It's good, but not the best pyromancer. Because the fighter multiclass isn't really bad. But it isn't a really pyromancer.

You can better go for 18 gold dragon sorcerer/two light cleric.

[Ramshack]

I have no idea how that works. Did you roll stats and get at least a 17 in Charisma? Or do you not have maxed out charisma? And remember with action surge not to use quickened spell or you can only use two cantrips with the bonus action spell.

Started variant human,so I should end up with 5 feats still.

[Ramshack]

It's good, but not the best pyromancer. Because the fighter multiclass isn't really bad. But it isn't a really pyromancer.

You can better go for 18 gold dragon sorcerer/two light cleric.

I'm sure more can be done to optimize but it's simple and effective. Strong Damage, good defenses.

[PoeticDwarf]

I'm sure more can be done to optimize but it's simple and effective. Strong Damage, good defenses.

That's true, but I didn't want a damage machine or someone with a high defense.

I'm more looking for just a build with many fire spells and a fluff (light cleric etc.):smallwink:

[GiantOctopodes]

Evoker Wizard gets my vote, mainly because a) they have tons of fire spells from a very diverse list, and b) they can cast all their fire spells and not hit allies with it, shaping the flames and truly proving themselves as a "master" of fire. Sorcerer is also great. I would avoid Cleric because even with the expanded spell list they miss out on awesome spells like fire storm (the only one Sorcerers get that Wizards do not), Incendiary Cloud, Fire Shield (the one Wizards get that Sorcerers do not) and others.

[Ramshack]

Evoker Wizard gets my vote, mainly because a) they have tons of fire spells from a very diverse list, and b) they can cast all their fire spells and not hit allies with it, shaping the flames and truly proving themselves as a "master" of fire. Sorcerer is also great. I would avoid Cleric because even with the expanded spell list they miss out on awesome spells like fire storm (the only one Sorcerers get that Wizards do not), Incendiary Cloud, Fire Shield (the one Wizards get that Sorcerers do not) and others.

I agree, my vote is still Dragon Srocerer, then Evocation Wizard and then Light Cleric. All options need to take the Elemental Adept Fire Feat, War Caster and Spell Sniper are other good options.

But nothing says to me fire master like being able to Quicken or Twin multiple fire spells in a single round, taking the Careful Metamagic allowing your allies to automatically save also fits thematically with being able to control the flames to help avoid your allies, granted not as effectively as the evocation wizard could though. Then again the wizard can't quicken or twin spells. With the sorcerers limited spell selection you can literally just take all fire damage spells for the flavor and not have all the extra spells that a wizard or cleric would (which, utility may be good for optimization, but it takes away from the thematics in this case)

[GiantOctopodes]

I agree, my vote is still Dragon Srocerer, then Evocation Wizard and then Light Cleric. All options need to take the Elemental Adept Fire Feat, War Caster and Spell Sniper are other good options.

But nothing says to me fire master like being able to Quicken or Twin multiple fire spells in a single round, taking the Careful Metamagic allowing your allies to automatically save also fits thematically with being able to control the flames to help avoid your allies, granted not as effectively as the evocation wizard could though. Then again the wizard can't quicken or twin spells. With the sorcerers limited spell selection you can literally just take all fire damage spells for the flavor and not have all the extra spells that a wizard or cleric would (which, utility may be good for optimization, but it takes away from the thematics in this case)

All valid points! My biggest thing that I'm not excessively fond of with Sorcerers is the draconic bloodline, I think. You gain resistance to fire, which if you're a tiefling, dragonborn, or fire genasi, you already have. You gain your ability mod on damage rolls (same as an Evoker wizard), flying (admittedly cool), and an expensively large number of sorcery points ability that either gives the most useless effect in 5e (charmed) or frightened, effectively usable 1/day per target. I think I'd rather go with a Favored Soul Light Domain sorcerer, personally, getting better proficiencies, an extra attack, more spells known (including a bunch of fire spells!), the same awesome flying ability, and HP regeneration whenever you use fire spells. How cool is that!

Now, giving up +Cha to damage rolls is a heckuva thing, true. It just feels like, to me, for an elementally themed character the +Cha to damage is the *only* thing they get that is a substantial benefit out of the entire Draconic Sorcery line, which is probably why I'm not super keen on it personally. That said, +Cha to damage on, for example, Scorching Ray, with a possible 10 rays going out for a total of +50 damage, is no joke, and even though most attacks won't scale as well, it's certainly not bad, wrong, or underpowered in any way to go Draconic Sorcerer, I'm sure they're a blast! I would just recommend talking with your DM at minimum about how, if at all, the redundant abilities (mainly the resistance) can be tweaked to still provide a benefit to your character, assuming you're playing a "traditional" pyromancer race.

[Naanomi]

Evoker Wizard has the advantage of having stats to fit a Fire Gensai!

A distant fifth for a fire-character would be a Moon Druid who spends his time as a Fire Elemental. (Red DragonSorcerer->Evoker Wizard->Light Cleric->Fiend Warlock->Moon Druid). Heck, with Druid taking feats to be a tank; you have a full fire-themed party there!

[Ramshack]

Evoker Wizard has the advantage of having stats to fit a Fire Gensai!

A distant fifth for a fire-character would be a Moon Druid who spends his time as a Fire Elemental. (Red DragonSorcerer->Evoker Wizard->Light Cleric->Fiend Warlock->Moon Druid). Heck, with Druid taking feats to be a tank; you have a full fire-themed party there!

Also good points

[Paeleus]

Another class that could fit the bill is an elemental monk, taking all the fire disciplines and reflavoring another. This would be the closest to a firebender from the last airbender tv series, though doesn't seem up to par with other options laid out in this thread.

Also, I can't help but suggest talking to the DM to see if your pyro-caster (all the other non-Druid options) can pick up the Druid spell Flame Blade at the expense of only taking fire spells from your class's spell list. Just a thought, but it seems to fit exceptionally well thematically and sounds pretty equivalent exchange-y.