Lets break a guarded vault

[ImSAMazing]

Dear Playgrounders,

I have a question. I am currently playing a lvl 14 Wizard in the FR, Sword Coast(the coast with Waterdeep and Neverwinter). I stored some stuff in the bank of Neverwinter, and I have a question. The vault is ofcourse enhanced with anti-teleportation magic etc, so how are we going to break in? The guards can be taken care of easily, but what is the smartest plan?

[zinycor]

Dear Playgrounders,

I have a question. I am currently playing a lvl 14 Wizard in the FR, Sword Coast(the coast with Waterdeep and Neverwinter). I stored some stuff in the bank of Neverwinter, and I have a question. The vault is ofcourse enhanced with anti-teleportation magic etc, so how are we going to break in? The guards can be taken care of easily, but what is the smartest plan?

What are the other PCs, what is your school of magic?

[SharkForce]

if it's your stuff, why don't you just ask for it?

[ImSAMazing]

Well, let's go for it that I will do the job alone. I am an Artificer lvl 14.

It isn't my stuff, I just hired a vault so I have some place to start.

[SharkForce]

does it need to look like you didn't break in when you're done?

[ImSAMazing]

does it need to look like you didn't break in when you're done?

Doesn't matter. I have a army to protect me and an escape route ready. They won't find me.

[Gurka]

To give much of an opinion, I'd need to know more about the vault itself.

That's got to be your first step: to case it, and determine what security is in place. What the vault doors and walls are made of, and how thick they are.

How many guards are there on premises?

What alarms (mechanical or magical) are present, and what kind of response do they prompt (Is it a paunchy rent-a-guard in one-size-too-small chainmail, still bleary eyed from his nap on duty, the city guard, or the best trained and equipped NPCs money can buy?). Also what is their response time? 10 minutes to mobilize, 15 minutes travel time? At the ready and able to teleport in within 2 minutes?

Figure out if the merchandise is magically tagged for tracking. Won't do to have the establishment come knocking on your door next morning.

Once you get in, and get the goods, how are you getting them out? If it's not small enough to fit in your backpack, you're gonna have to worry about logistics. If it's around a half billion, then you're gonna need bags of holding, and lots of them, or small items worth a ton.

Have a long-range and long-term exit strategy planned, if you don't want to get caught sometime after the fact. That means some semi-permanent anti-scrying spells, and preferably a change in locale of at least a few hundred miles, maybe more.

What kind of goods are you stealing? Currency, or items of high intrinsic value? Either way (but particularly if the latter) you'll need to have a fence prepared to liquidate your newly found assets without raising suspicion. Keep in mind that if you're trying to sell stolen goods that are identifiable as such (not all are, though), you're usually only going to get a fraction of their full value.

If this is connected to your earlier question about how to afford a palace... It's gonna be a bit conspicuous when somebody robs the bank, stealing (I'm guessing) around 500,000 cash, and oh funny coincidence this nobody over here just commissioned the most expensive structure that the Masons guild has ever built. Now, robbing a bank is probably the fastest way to get tons of money, but maybe not the best way.

Good luck all the same though!

[Shining Wrath]

You're an artificer? Think out of the box, your class is powerful.

Don't break into the vault. Shrink the entire vault, levitate it into your Bag of Holding, exit stage right. Once you've got the vault home, crack at your leisure.

Or dig a tunnel beneath it with move earth, use Passwall from below, loot at will. They probably won't even know you were there.

[Steampunkette]

Go Shadow Depository on it.

Make sure your vault is near the one you need to get to. Hire some patsies to distract the guards and generally make things chaotic. Get through the vault using Passwall or by breaking down the door while witnesses are away.

Then smuggle the stuff out through unrelated to the chaos patsies, Portable Holes, Bags of Holding, or even Leomund's Secret Chest type shenanigans.

[Gurka]

Go Shadow Depository on it.

+1 for Farscape reference.

[ImSAMazing]

For everyone, We are talking about the vault of Neverwinter. So make a plan to get into the vault (s) safely and then grab most loot as possible and get out safely.

Also, is there a way Passwall could be blocked?

[ImSAMazing]

? Please, I'd like some more idea's.

[SharkForce]

etherealness can get you past a lot of obstacles.

disintegrate can be used to remove annoying obstacles, such as a vault door, quickly.

fabricate can be used to craft secret doors out of walls (if you have appropriate proficiency).

various wall spells can provide very effective delays.

magic jar can be useful for getting access to places, for example by disguising yourself as a maintenance worker or cleaning crew member (you can also use more standard diguise options, but if the place has anti-teleport spells, they probably have some method of spotting illusions).

mass suggestion can be used to setup things in advance, if the bank doesn't do regular checks to see if their employees have a spell on them.

polymorph can give you access to some forms that offer burrowing.

a lot of it depends on more than just location. we're not asking where the bank is. we're asking what they're doing to protect their vaults. so your first step should be to gather information, because from the sound of it you have next to none, which means you can't really make any plans and have any expectation that they'll work. this is not the sort of thing where you should just bum rush it. do some legwork first.

[Mellack]

The Neverwinter Bank does not have any default stats/description that I know of. This means we cannot give you any serious ideas until you find out more about the protections it has. It could be as simple as sneaking in under invisibility to absolutely impossible with walls of force and contingency antimagic zones. You have to get a lot more information.

[ImSAMazing]

i know this details:
- Protection from teleportation into the vault and out the vault(Probably that lvl 6 spell I can't remember)
- Protection from Interplanar travel(So no Etherealness)
- Anti-Scrying protection(Probably the same spell as the 1st)
- There must be a lot of money in there
- There are "Magic" Police who like to taser you using Hold Person. I can escape from them, so that isn't a problem(Found out by robbing a normal person)
- The walls are made of metal

[Kerilstrasz]

I have low info at this point.. but..
i would approached this the mundane way of thinking (using magic to speed things)

- hire a locksmith
- go with him invis and crack the safe (you can always have him explained to you what the problem is while cracking the safe, like that annoying pin that can't get it to move up, and help him by magically moving it)
- you said you have a way out

for any reason this wont work

- hire a conjurer
- go with him invis and have him conjure extremely acidic or metal melting substances to destroy a wall of of the safe
- you said you have a way out

for any reason this wont work

- you can't teleport someone/something inside or out of the vault.. how about teleporting the vault somewhere else? or just its door? or its locking mechanism? or the door's hinges?

for any reason this won't work

- impersonate the owner and ask for its contents (Harry potter style.. that scene that Hermione went as Bellatrix Lestrange to the bank)

for any reason this won't work

- trick/blackmail someone working there into opening it for you

can't think anything else at the moment.. but take this as guides and wok a plan on/around these

[ImSAMazing]

I have low info at this point.. but..
i would approached this the mundane way of thinking (using magic to speed things)

- hire a locksmith
- go with him invis and crack the safe (you can always have him explained to you what the problem is while cracking the safe, like that annoying pin that can't get it to move up, and help him by magically moving it)
- you said you have a way out

for any reason this wont work

- hire a conjurer
- go with him invis and have him conjure extremely acidic or metal melting substances to destroy a wall of of the safe
- you said you have a way out

for any reason this wont work

- you can't teleport someone/something inside or out of the vault.. how about teleporting the vault somewhere else? or just its door? or its locking mechanism? or the door's hinges?

for any reason this won't work

- impersonate the owner and ask for its contents (Harry potter style.. that scene that Hermione went as Bellatrix Lestrange to the bank)

for any reason this won't work

- trick/blackmail someone working there into opening it for you

can't think anything else at the moment.. but take this as guides and wok a plan on/around these
Great idea's.






However, there isn't just 1 vault, which makes it even more hard.

[XmonkTad]

i know this details:
- Protection from teleportation into the vault and out the vault(Probably that lvl 6 spell I can't remember)
- Protection from Interplanar travel(So no Etherealness)
- Anti-Scrying protection(Probably the same spell as the 1st)
- There must be a lot of money in there
- There are "Magic" Police who like to taser you using Hold Person. I can escape from them, so that isn't a problem(Found out by robbing a normal person)
- The walls are made of metal

The spell's name is forbiddance.

Ok, then here are a few more ideas:
- Gaseous Form can get you through a lot of things, is only a third level spell, but requires concentration. If you can make a trip into the vault where all you do is poke holes in things, then you could gas in and out at will later.
- Mind Blank is a spell you definitely want. However, it's an 8th level. Nondetection can work well for you too. It stops traps that rely on magic sensors from going off on you. I think it stops magical alarms from noticing you too, but I could be wrong (alarm is abjuration, not divination).
- Loot transport essentially requires a portable hole or something like that.
- More information is awesome. Kidnap and charm some people.
- Fabricate only cares about tool proficiency if you're trying to make something complicated out of the raw materials. If you just want to turn a metal wall into a pile of metal, that isn't too difficult.

[Gurka]

There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns. You already know some, so time to figure out if there's anything else that you DON'T know about yet.

Find an off-duty guard, hit him with a charm spell, ply him with some liquor, ask him some questions about security and response.

Find an off-duty clerk/banker, apply same technique, find out about bank policy and routine. You need to know if there are cash deliveries or drop-offs at any particular times (might be good targets, or might represent added security), make sure that the vault is not time locked. The first known time-lock dates back to the 1600's, so it's entirely possible they could have one in a D&D setting, and if they do, then mundane entry is a waste of time, unless you breach the wall/ceiling/floor. FYI a time-lock safe can only be opened at certain times each day; even bank personnel would not be able to change that.


- Fabricate only cares about tool proficiency if you're trying to make something complicated out of the raw materials. If you just want to turn a metal wall into a pile of metal, that isn't too difficult.

If the DM allows you to use fabricate in this way (which is clearly not the spell's intent, but depending on how you define "raw material" it is viable), then you can use it to effortlessly breach anything that isn't inherently spell resistant.

Also, don't bother trying to hire a locksmith, since any actual locksmith with a practicing business would turn you down in a heartbeat, and if you try it he might turn you in. A Thief you could almost certainly hire, though he'd almost certainly want a large share of the take. If you're not too worried about ethics, you can certainly kill anybody who doesn't want to go along with the plan, but I got the idea from an earlier post that you didn't want to go the murder/death/kill route.

[Shining Wrath]

The easiest way into a vault is to be a person allowed access to the vault. You aren't. You can find someone who is.

First, artifice something that will cast Suggestion on the bearer when triggered. The trigger is someone saying an unlikely phrase to the bearer. Supply the bearer with several bags of holding.

Know (as suggested above) what the bank's routine is. Find a time when there's only a couple of people in the bank (they probably like two man rules). Supply each of them with one of your special Suggestion buttons and the bags of holding.

Use Sending or equivalent to trigger the Suggestions on the two workers - which is, of course, that they should enter the vault(s), fill them with the most valuable things they can find quickly, and place them outside the back door, where you are waiting Invisible and Silent. Walk away with a dozen Bags of Holding, each full of loot.

[Sigreid]

Kidnap someone who is authorized to get in. Simulacrum steals the goods. Poor guy is the fall guy.

[LordVonDerp]

Dress up as a Vault-Tec inspector?

[Gurka]

Dress up as a Vault-Tec inspector?

You know what, I've been able to walk straight into secure bank areas unchallenged, just because I had my work shirt on and a tool bag. Granted, I WAS actually supposed to be there, but the people at the counter I walked right past didn't know that.

Carry a tool bag and look like you know where you're going and an awful lot of people just want to stay out of your way. Especially if you look a bit pissed.

[ImSAMazing]

You know what, I've been able to walk straight into secure bank areas unchallenged, just because I had my work shirt on and a tool bag. Granted, I WAS actually supposed to be there, but the people at the counter I walked right past didn't know that.

Carry a tool bag and look like you know where you're going and an awful lot of people just want to stay out of your way. Especially if you look a bit pissed.
Might work, but I don't think so.


Dress up as a Vault-Tec inspector?
Don't think that company exists.


Kidnap someone who is authorized to get in. Simulacrum steals the goods. Poor guy is the fall guy.
How does Simulacrum steal the goods?

The easiest way into a vault is to be a person allowed access to the vault. You aren't. You can find someone who is.

First, artifice something that will cast Suggestion on the bearer when triggered. The trigger is someone saying an unlikely phrase to the bearer. Supply the bearer with several bags of holding.

Know (as suggested above) what the bank's routine is. Find a time when there's only a couple of people in the bank (they probably like two man rules). Supply each of them with one of your special Suggestion buttons and the bags of holding.

Use Sending or equivalent to trigger the Suggestions on the two workers - which is, of course, that they should enter the vault(s), fill them with the most valuable things they can find quickly, and place them outside the back door, where you are waiting Invisible and Silent. Walk away with a dozen Bags of Holding, each full of loot.
The problem is, that an Artificer can only "artifice" items from Magic Item Table a & b.

There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns. You already know some, so time to figure out if there's anything else that you DON'T know about yet.

Find an off-duty guard, hit him with a charm spell, ply him with some liquor, ask him some questions about security and response.

Find an off-duty clerk/banker, apply same technique, find out about bank policy and routine. You need to know if there are cash deliveries or drop-offs at any particular times (might be good targets, or might represent added security), make sure that the vault is not time locked. The first known time-lock dates back to the 1600's, so it's entirely possible they could have one in a D&D setting, and if they do, then mundane entry is a waste of time, unless you breach the wall/ceiling/floor. FYI a time-lock safe can only be opened at certain times each day; even bank personnel would not be able to change that.



If the DM allows you to use fabricate in this way (which is clearly not the spell's intent, but depending on how you define "raw material" it is viable), then you can use it to effortlessly breach anything that isn't inherently spell resistant.

Also, don't bother trying to hire a locksmith, since any actual locksmith with a practicing business would turn you down in a heartbeat, and if you try it he might turn you in. A Thief you could almost certainly hire, though he'd almost certainly want a large share of the take. If you're not too worried about ethics, you can certainly kill anybody who doesn't want to go along with the plan, but I got the idea from an earlier post that you didn't want to go the murder/death/kill route.
Clearly doing this, the first part at least.

The spell's name is forbiddance.

Ok, then here are a few more ideas:
- Gaseous Form can get you through a lot of things, is only a third level spell, but requires concentration. If you can make a trip into the vault where all you do is poke holes in things, then you could gas in and out at will later.
- Mind Blank is a spell you definitely want. However, it's an 8th level. Nondetection can work well for you too. It stops traps that rely on magic sensors from going off on you. I think it stops magical alarms from noticing you too, but I could be wrong (alarm is abjuration, not divination).
- Loot transport essentially requires a portable hole or something like that.
- More information is awesome. Kidnap and charm some people.
- Fabricate only cares about tool proficiency if you're trying to make something complicated out of the raw materials. If you just want to turn a metal wall into a pile of metal, that isn't too difficult.

Thnx, great idea's!

[Inevitability]

As for useful magic items you could craft:

-Dust of Disappearance for concentrationless invisibility.
-Dust of Sneezing and Choking can be used to incapacitate any guards for a short time, regardless of their health at the time.
-Wand of Secrets/Magic Detection can detect most traps.
-Down a bunch of Potions of Resistance for resistance to most nonphysical damage.
-Alchemy Jug can produce an unlimited supply of acid. Use it to destroy locks.
-Elemental Gems can create great meat shields/distractions/spies. Note that they do require concentration, though.
-Bags of Holding let you store the loot.


I hope these help. :smallsmile:

[Sigreid]

Might work, but I don't think so.




How does Simulacrum steal the goods?



Thnx, great idea's!

Simulacrum is of the guy authorized to walk in.

[PoeticDwarf]

As for useful magic items you could craft:

-Dust of Disappearance for concentrationless invisibility.
-Dust of Sneezing and Choking can be used to incapacitate any guards for a short time, regardless of their health at the time.
-Wand of Secrets/Magic Detection can detect most traps.
-Down a bunch of Potions of Resistance for resistance to most nonphysical damage.
-Alchemy Jug can produce an unlimited supply of acid. Use it to destroy locks.
-Elemental Gems can create great meat shields/distractions/spies. Note that they do require concentration, though.
-Bags of Holding let you store the loot.


I hope these help. :smallsmile:
Where can you see the artificer class, are these all in the DM guide???

I don't think so, where can I see these, where the artificer class is?

[SharkForce]

Where can you see the artificer class, are these all in the DM guide???

I don't think so, where can I see these, where the artificer class is?

artificer is here (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf).

the items are in the DMG. not sure if they're in tables A and B though.

[Shining Wrath]

Simulacrum is of the guy authorized to walk in.

It's also a level 7 spell, but a good idea.

[ImSAMazing]

My current plan, we have 3 teams.

Team 1: Goes outside the bank and justs start to rob people and punch them so the cops go after them. They keep doing this until all the cops in town are going after them.

Team 2: Hires a vault(did that already about a week ago), and puts it full with gunpowder, really full. Than ignites it and takes cover. After that he tries to get some stuff of the exploded vaults.

Team 3: Hires a vault, and uses acid to get thru the walls, and use gaseous form to travel really easy. Grabs as much stuff he can and puts it in portable holes and bag of holdings. Then regroups with Team 2 and flies away.

[Mellack]

Team 1. How many people are in this group? Or more importantly, how many cops are there? How tough is this team that they can hold off all of the police of a major city? Do the town police even guard the vault? I would expect a high-level vault would have a private security force in addition to city guard. How are the team members expected to get away?

Teams 2 & 3. Have you scouted the defenses of the bank as suggested? Will gunpowder and acid destroy the walls, or do they have something like walls of force separating vaults? What is the banks response to damage? It may summon Solars if there is any breech of the vaults as far as you have told us. Do you have a map of the vaults? What is in the ones next to vault you plan to blow? Will the explosion allow you to get in or just collapse it? Will the valuables survive the explosion (gold) or be destroyed (art)?

If you want this to work, preparation is really going to be key.