Making a Professor

[SouthpawSoldier]

In 3.5, one of my favorite character designs was a Bardic Sage. Extra languages, Perform: Oration (lecture), and knowledge abuse. Designed as a translator, either a snobbish pontificating history/anthro professor or a living C-3PO clone.

Flipping through my 5E PHB, I'm finding a hard time replicating the build. Straight Bard is a little too Music focused, and Knowledge Cleric is a little to holier than thou.

Any suggestions on way to build a Bardic Sage in 5E?

[Naanomi]

I'd still do knowledge Cleric 1/lore Bard 19.

If you really can't get over the flavor of the classes, then other options include Wizard (diviner, or maybe transmuter for a more 'scientist' feel); or Old One/Book Warlock for the 'forbidden lore' type.

Sage background covers most of what you need anyways

[PoeticDwarf]

I'd still do knowledge Cleric 1/lore Bard 19.

If you really can't get over the flavor of the classes, then other options include Wizard (diviner, or maybe transmuter for a more 'scientist' feel); or Old One/Book Warlock for the 'forbidden lore' type.

Sage background covers most of what you need anyways

That also sounds the best for me

[some guy]

Definitely sage background, probably Linguist feat, maybe Keen Mind feat.


Straight Bard is a little too Music focused

Remember, any spell casting class can use a Spell Component Pouch as a spell focus, you don't need a musical instrument if you don't want it. Ask your DM if you can trade the 3 musical instrument profiencies for something else (maybe just Performance, seeing how 3 musical profiencies are mostly a flavor thing) and you have a bard without music.

[SouthpawSoldier]

Definitely sage background, probably Linguist feat, maybe Keen Mind feat.



Remember, any spell casting class can use a Spell Component Pouch as a spell focus, you don't need a musical instrument if you don't want it. Ask your DM if you can trade the 3 musical instrument profiencies for something else (maybe just Performance, seeing how 3 musical profiencies are mostly a flavor thing) and you have a bard without music.

Would you say one-for-one Language to Instrument, since Language use is largely DM dependent anyways?

I'll take another look at the Cleric/Bard combo; the same for Wizard. Generally I shy away from prepared casters, so I haven't perused those sections of the PHB as in depth as others. I may be able to adapt them to fit my idea, especially with the changes to 5e casting.

[Naanomi]

Instrament for language is probably about fair; though if you had to take the instruments and not use them much it wouldn't be a huge loss... If you take Cleric first (for shield and medium armor) you don't end up with three anyways, just one I think... Every intellectual needs to play piano/pipe organ right?

[Ralanr]

Hmm...I wonder how one characterizes a bard that doesn't play instruments, writes poetry, or is too tone deaf to do any of the things bards are usually known for?

[SouthpawSoldier]

Hmm...I wonder how one characterizes a bard that doesn't play instruments, writes poetry, or is too tone deaf to do any of the things bards are usually known for?

Didn't negate poetry, just tonal music and instruments. Don't really need tone to perform a haka (was using haka for a hybrid bard/druid/cleric to replicate kahuna), and oratory/lecture bards are more about cadence and adjusting the speech for the crowd (vernacular, context and the like).

Character provided inspiration via speeches to cohorts; describing the foe in humorous/demeaning manners (think counter to boggarts from HP); really built as a smarmy intellectual elitist.

[Ashrym]

Would you say one-for-one Language to Instrument, since Language use is largely DM dependent anyways?

I'll take another look at the Cleric/Bard combo; the same for Wizard. Generally I shy away from prepared casters, so I haven't perused those sections of the PHB as in depth as others. I may be able to adapt them to fit my idea, especially with the changes to 5e casting.

I do loremaster bards as my preferred class and archetype. Same thing with using a spell component pouch; I don't use the instrument spell focus, and may or may not reskin song of rest.

Most abilities are easy to refluff.

As a DM, I wouldn't grant 3 languages instead of 3 instruments because after the first instrument the other two are ribbon effects; IE it's still really only one tool proficiency in effect. I would allow 2 languages; one for giving up the tool proficiency, and one for giving up the additional instruments and focus as an option.

The sage background already has a professor specialty listed, and gives 2 languages for sage. Variant human with the linguist feat, sage background, and slight bard change to proficiencies sounds like what you want.

[Ashrym]

Hmm...I wonder how one characterizes a bard that doesn't play instruments, writes poetry, or is too tone deaf to do any of the things bards are usually known for?

As a story teller. It would be someone who knows old legends and stories as a common concept from stories.

D&D incorporated a lot of different concepts into the bard class, and that tends to draw attention to music but the academic historian and advisor is a typical bard archetype that stems from real-world historical roles in society and is a thing. They told stories to teach through parable or demonstrate customary precedent more than just to entertain.

In any event, without proficiency in instruments or performance all bards still perform with a bonus for jack-of-all-trades plus CHA bonus so there isn't really a non-performing who doesn't know how to keep his audience interested, when it's telling a story, teaching a lesson in an interesting way, or some other method.

[Naanomi]

Knowledge cleric gives a few bonus languags too

[some guy]

As a DM, I wouldn't grant 3 languages instead of 3 instruments because after the first instrument the other two are ribbon effects; IE it's still really only one tool proficiency in effect. I would allow 2 languages; one for giving up the tool proficiency, and one for giving up the additional instruments and focus as an option.

Yeah, I'd that would be fair.

[eastmabl]

As a DM, I wouldn't grant 3 languages instead of 3 instruments because after the first instrument the other two are ribbon effects; IE it's still really only one tool proficiency in effect. I would allow 2 languages; one for giving up the tool proficiency, and one for giving up the additional instruments and focus as an option.

I would probably give two languages on the basis that a bard might need to sing in different languages - see opera singers and world music artists. The third language takes you out of the realm of bard.

[ImSAMazing]

I'd start with the background Sage, just for the feeling.

Then choose the race Gnome, the stereotype(and the scores) for a professor.

Then go for Wizard(Diviner/Transmutator), Cleric(Knowledge) or Lore Bard.

[Naanomi]

As a cleric/bard Race wise... You are going to be MAD as heck, so I'd go with 1/2 elf or maybe Varient human with a stat boosting feat (keen mind or observant)

Half-Elf: 8/14/13/14/13/16 on a point buy covers all your multiclass needs, sets your DEX up for medium armor, sets CON up to get resiliant later, while keeping INT high as possible for professor feel

If you decide Resiliant isn't in your future drop 1 CON and put it in STR for carry weight

Feats... Two ASI are going into Charisma; leaving you 3 more.

Resilient, Warcaster, Both great for adventuring casters, Bard benefits from them to maintain buffs/Debuffs.

Observant and Keen Mind are not stellar feats mechanically but both fit the 'brainy guy' feel, and can boost up that odd WIS or push intelligence higher.

[Celcey]

If I recall correctly, it says in the PHB that you can switch tool and language proficiencies one for one.

[Ashrym]

If I recall correctly, it says in the PHB that you can switch tool and language proficiencies one for one.

It does, for background, but this is a class proficiency feature, and it's only one tool proficiency granted multiple times. The effect of extra instrument proficiencies is non-existent.

[SouthpawSoldier]

So looking at people's suggestions, and reading the relevant portions of the PHB, I'm wondering if Bard is necessary at all. The fluff of Bardic Knowledge is there in the class description, but none of the abilities really act like Bardic Knowledge; just additional skill proficiencies and more access to spells. That also reduces the MAD of the idea. I lose a bit of the crowd manipulation, but that wasn't as central to the concept as the language and knowledge effects; having Proficiency in Persuasion should be sufficient; Expertise I think is unnecessary.

With a Knowledge Cleric and Sage background, the character can already have proficiency in 6 skills by my count, with Expertise in two of them ( 4 Knowledge Cleric, 2 Background); and 4 bonus languages (+2 Knowledge Domain, +2 Sage). That covers all the skills really essential to the class concept; History (Exp.), Religion (Exp.; can be Anthropology analogue), Arcana, Investigation (substitute for double History proficiency), and 2 from Insight, Persuasion, and Medicine.

Rock Gnome and Half Elf seem the two best racial options; Half-elf adds 2 more skills and an extra language; Rock Gnome has some relevant scientific abilities as well.

Going Knowledge Cleric 1/Diviner 19 gives me an idea for the character personality as well; Jesuit analogue who isn't particularly devout, and studies the Arcane and his religion from an analytical stance, trying to find the connection between Arcane and Divine magical effects and energies, or the Weave. The Transmuter/Chemist route is related and doable, though my target was more of the Historian/Anthropologist route. Doing some random surfing of Wikipedia, I found John Murray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Courtney_Murray) ; the language and skill Proficiencies sync well with the concept of an analytical philosopher/negotiator. Build him around finding common ground between various faiths/races/cultures, and serving as a mediator/diplomat. One version of the character was a majordomo for a merchant family, instead of a professor. I can draw a little of both for this rendition.


Thoughts/suggestions?

[Ralanr]

So why not diviner or transmutation wizard?

[SouthpawSoldier]

Straight Wizard is a little light in the skills and language departments to fit the concept. No History Expertise, 2 less languages; the character concept is historian/cultural anthropologist, that can also be adapted as a translator (languages fit with cultural anthropology) or negotiator (research has led to understanding/insight of other cultures). Diviner Wizard 20 doesn't offer that, and the goal isn't to build a chemist.

[Naanomi]

Remember knowledge bard lets you buff your own skill rolls with inspiration dice, and expertise in all four knowledge skills, perception, and investigation is awesome but...

Knowledge Cleric/Diviner is a great combo, start with 1 in cleric then drive into diviner (evaluate as you approach 20 if you want to polish off with 1 more level in Cleric at the end or grab the last feat)

I assume you want all 5 intelligence skills, leaving you one free regardless of race choices... If you are moving away from the social aspect I'd just go with Perception. 1/2 elf would give you a few more and a language, but Rock Gnome or V. human with Keen Mind would probably be my choice. Remember that Rock Gnome's Artificer's Lore won't stack with expertise in History, so I'd actually lean towards human, giving you one free skill for... Acrobatics for general adventuring utility maybe?

Stats:
9/14/15/13/16/8

Monkey with specifics depending on planned feat choices (Resiliant, keen mind, etc); but my ASI would be +2 Int/+2 Int/Resiliant: Con/Warcaster/Observant (or Alert or Lucky)

[Ashrym]

So looking at people's suggestions, and reading the relevant portions of the PHB, I'm wondering if Bard is necessary at all. The fluff of Bardic Knowledge is there in the class description, but none of the abilities really act like Bardic Knowledge; just additional skill proficiencies and more access to spells. That also reduces the MAD of the idea. I lose a bit of the crowd manipulation, but that wasn't as central to the concept as the language and knowledge effects; having Proficiency in Persuasion should be sufficient; Expertise I think is unnecessary.

With a Knowledge Cleric and Sage background, the character can already have proficiency in 6 skills by my count, with Expertise in two of them ( 4 Knowledge Cleric, 2 Background); and 4 bonus languages (+2 Knowledge Domain, +2 Sage). That covers all the skills really essential to the class concept; History (Exp.), Religion (Exp.; can be Anthropology analogue), Arcana, Investigation (substitute for double History proficiency), and 2 from Insight, Persuasion, and Medicine.

Rock Gnome and Half Elf seem the two best racial options; Half-elf adds 2 more skills and an extra language; Rock Gnome has some relevant scientific abilities as well.

Going Knowledge Cleric 1/Diviner 19 gives me an idea for the character personality as well; Jesuit analogue who isn't particularly devout, and studies the Arcane and his religion from an analytical stance, trying to find the connection between Arcane and Divine magical effects and energies, or the Weave. The Transmuter/Chemist route is related and doable, though my target was more of the Historian/Anthropologist route. Doing some random surfing of Wikipedia, I found John Murray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Courtney_Murray) ; the language and skill Proficiencies sync well with the concept of an analytical philosopher/negotiator. Build him around finding common ground between various faiths/races/cultures, and serving as a mediator/diplomat. One version of the character was a majordomo for a merchant family, instead of a professor. I can draw a little of both for this rendition.


Thoughts/suggestions?

Lore bard is 8 skills, expertise in 4, and adds peerless skill.

You are probably looking at history, arcana, religion, investigation, persuasion, and insight at the very least based on your description so proficiency is possible in what you want but the negotiator / mediator is thin.

Wizard / cleric ability scores work well with the selected skills, and with expertise plus INT focus better in those 2 checks than the bard is likely to be. It might be nice more proficiencies and expertise, but the cleric 1 / wizard 19 is the stronger spellcaster, so a good choice.