Vampire Societies

[Th3N3xtGuy]

If vampires are naturally chaotic evil not counting the few vampire lords leading them. Isn't it technically impossible for them to have the aristocratic leaning if chaotic evil is "A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him". That doesn't sound aristocratic just a intelligent beast.

[Venger]

If vampires are naturally chaotic evil not counting the few vampire lords leading them. Isn't it technically impossible for them to have the aristocratic leaning if chaotic evil is "A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him". That doesn't sound aristocratic just a intelligent beast.

vampires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) can be any Evil, not just chaotic.

the reason for their hierarchical society is that your sire gets to boss you around, so you have to do what he says (and so on and o on)

plus all kinds of different people get embraced, so there'd be a gamut, all vampires wouldn't act in one way.

[Karl Aegis]

Welcome to alignment. It is dumb. Enjoy your stay.

[Red Fel]

Welcome to alignment. It is dumb. Enjoy your stay.

To qualify that, even if you don't loathe the alignment system, you should never rely on the definitions on the books, which are narrow to an absurd degree.

Not every Chaotic Evil character is a hot-blooded murderthirsty ragebusting idiot. The problem with the book definitions is that the writers had a bias, which becomes more evident in later editions. Specifically, despite the existence of Vile and Exalted options, the writers basically espoused the position that LG is "best Good" and CE is "worst Evil." So LG was described as the most awesomely Good possible, with positive adjectives aplenty; CG was described as Good with some "quirks" (read: they might be a bit naughty); LE was described as the "noblest" of Evil; and CE was described with not a redeeming quality to its name.

You can't play CE like that. If you play CE the way it's written, it's unplayable. CEs, as written, are Chaotic Stupid. They exist solely to kill, scream, and die. You can't play any alignment like a caricature if you expect it to be at all relatable.

CE can be many things; it doesn't just have to be "hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable." That's something that gets people kicked out of the table.

[frost890]

I think they are referencing the one you randomly run in to. Probably ones that have gone to long between meals. Most of the time in my worlds it takes them some time to adapt to their new existence. Learning how often they need to feed and I imagine. It would seem pretty chaotic when they first start feeding. Is the hunger always there or does it creep up on you? The ones that survive have learned to control the base impulse's. Kind of like the difference between a toddler and the parents.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

I think they are referencing the one you randomly run in to. Probably ones that have gone to long between meals. Most of the time in my worlds it takes them some time to adapt to their new existence. Learning how often they need to feed and I imagine. It would seem pretty chaotic when they first start feeding. Is the hunger always there or does it creep up on you? The ones that survive have learned to control the base impulse's. Kind of like the difference between a toddler and the parents.

Yeah that makes since it would be technically evil chaotic society because the older ones would keep the younger ones in line by force. The older ones feeling superior with a desire for civility of there non vampire past would equate a aristocratic like life. I wonder for ancient vampires if blood sucking is like developing a drug resistance. They need it to survive but the feeling of fresh blood is not like it use to be. Thus it becomes dull and meh.

[Karl Aegis]

Didn't Pathfinder have some sort of playtest where older vampires had to drain entire whales of blood every hour to stay alive? What happened to those?

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Didn't Pathfinder have some sort of playtest where older vampires had to drain entire whales of blood every hour to stay alive? What happened to those?

Don't know never played pathfinder

[frogglesmash]

I'd just like to point out that Drow have proven that Chaotic Evil creatures can create a functioning society, albeit not a very happy one.

[DeltaEmil]

Drow are neutral evil, and their society (or specifically those drow city-states that have the Lolth-priesthood as the dominant caste) is noted to not work at all except literally by the whims of their chaotic evil goddess who is crazy enough to inflict horrible punishments and stupid rules upon the drow, and at the same time suddenly randomly polymorphs devout followers of hers into driders that are to be shunned or killed whenever they come too close at destroying the city-state by following her commandments.

This is why she's only an intermediate deity in the end.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Drow are neutral evil, and their society (or specifically those drow city-states that have the Lolth-priesthood as the dominant caste) is noted to not work at all except literally by the whims of their chaotic evil goddess who is crazy enough to inflict horrible punishments and stupid rules upon the drow, and at the same time suddenly randomly polymorphs devout followers of hers into driders that are to be shunned or killed whenever they come too close at destroying the city-state by following her commandments.

This is why she's only an intermediate deity in the end.


Lotlth is the most bat-**** crazy deity even some demons make more sense then her. They don't randomly punish the only ones loyal to them for no reason.

[Lord_Gareth]

Didn't Pathfinder have some sort of playtest where older vampires had to drain entire whales of blood every hour to stay alive? What happened to those?

Third party, my book, and we fixed it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

CE can be many things; it doesn't just have to be "hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable." That's something that gets people kicked out of the table.

Hilariously most demons aren't like this. Their societies are based off some fairly simple rules, such as "the strong rule" but there are demons who lack ambition beyond their loyalty to their lords.

Best example I can think of is Pazuzu, who is intelligent, calculating, and patient. IIRC he only gets mad if you summon him when CE and the worst he does then is berate you and leave.

[Molan]

I don't think the alignment system is stupid -- I just think you have to interpret it beyond the biased text it's written in.

As for Vampires, they are chaotic evil. But they're not chaotic stupid. The strong rule the weak. They're all untrustworthy, bloodthirsty killers which is why so many vampire stories involve them eventually screwing each other over. But the strongest of them can still create a heirarchy that serves their best interests.

Being chaotic doesn't mean you're anti-rules -- just that you have no problem breaking them as soon as it's convenient.