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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class Houserules for my campaign - Sorcerer



KoDT69
2015-07-05, 01:56 AM
I just want to get some opinions on what I have done with the Sorcerer base class for my current game, and see what you all think.

Basically, I added the Warlock class abilities of Eldritch Blast and the Invocations to the Sorcerer. I also grant every 5th level a bonus "class feature" which can be anything granted by a Prestige Class, but it would have to be one in which they could have qualified for the PrC (or close enough depending on the feature's power). The point of this is to allow a full progression in the base class with a decent mix of extra abilities, and customizing super cool things without PrC'ing out. I think that is a more elegant solution than "level dipping" to get a cool ability or 2.

I will defend my free-floating "class feature" selection with the following statement of opinion, my opinion, which runs my campaign that the players are very happy with:

I hate Prestige Classes in general. I get why they did it, but I disagree with the implementation. The base classes should have had open slots to add these types of features in the first place and could have been revised to do so, but they didn't do that. Players are free to use and abuse them in my games, but should not be required to know how to game the system to get a useful character. Some are OK, like I get Archmage or Red Wizard of Thay, in their own right make sense, but you all know there are 10 level PrC's that only make sense to take a level or 2.

nonsi
2015-07-05, 04:12 AM
I just want to get some opinions on what I have done with the Sorcerer base class for my current game, and see what you all think.

. . .

I will defend my free-floating "class feature" selection with the following statement of opinion, my opinion, which runs my campaign that the players are very happy with:

I hate Prestige Classes in general. I get why they did it, but I disagree with the implementation. The base classes should have had open slots to add these types of features in the first place and could have been revised to do so, but they didn't do that. Players are free to use and abuse them in my games, but should not be required to know how to game the system to get a useful character. Some are OK, like I get Archmage or Red Wizard of Thay, in their own right make sense, but you all know there are 10 level PrC's that only make sense to take a level or 2.


I don't know how long since you started using this option of flexible PrC features, but you should be aware that it would significantly enhance the party's overall power level.
Just note that it could be highly abuseable in the hands of practiced minmaxers.

Anyway, for an outside evaluation and critique, it could help if you specified how the other classes (or characters in general) benefit from this rule and once in how many levels you allow it (and starting from which level).





Basically, I added the Warlock class abilities of Eldritch Blast and the Invocations to the Sorcerer. I also grant every 5th level a bonus "class feature" which can be anything granted by a Prestige Class, but it would have to be one in which they could have qualified for the PrC (or close enough depending on the feature's power). The point of this is to allow a full progression in the base class with a decent mix of extra abilities, and customizing super cool things without PrC'ing out. I think that is a more elegant solution than "level dipping" to get a cool ability or 2.


EB - definitely. The Sorc. was intended primarily as a blaster by the game designers.
Invocations - only if the Warlock is not part of your campaign (and it's no secret that I find the Warlock's known invocations amount to be way too low). I believe a better alternative would be to boost the Sorc's known spells a bit.

Both options (each and/or conbined) won't elevate the Sorc. to Tier-1, so no worries there.

KoDT69
2015-07-06, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the constructive input. I had a few other things that I guess should be mentioned as well.

Sorcerers gain new spell levels as a Wizard. I see no real reason why the "natural talent" would be lagged behind the "studied talent", if anything it should have been the other way around.

Sorcerers do not suffer that BS metamagic timing penalty, same reason as above.

I also gave them an extra spell known at each level and +4 skill points.

All in all, does this beat a Wizard? Still no. But it does make a fun and interesting character that has a lot of options and endurance!

Submortimer
2015-07-06, 10:28 PM
Sorcerers do not suffer that BS metamagic timing penalty, same reason as above.


This is open for potential abuse. Prepared casters cannot add metamagic effects to thier spells on the fly; they must prepare the metamagic version of their spell in advance. Spontaneous casters CAN change their spells on the fly, but they take longer to cast. I would look VERY carefully at this, and make sure it's not being taken advantage of.

nonsi
2015-07-06, 11:11 PM
This is open for potential abuse. Prepared casters cannot add metamagic effects to thier spells on the fly; they must prepare the metamagic version of their spell in advance. Spontaneous casters CAN change their spells on the fly, but they take longer to cast. I would look VERY carefully at this, and make sure it's not being taken advantage of.

@KoDT69 - I tend to agree with this observation. That's why I've eliminated the Sorc-Wis separation in my 3.5 overhaul codex.
Also, you didn't specify how the open slots for PrC abilities work in your game (starting level and frequency).

KoDT69
2015-07-09, 10:12 PM
@ nonsi - I understand the potential abuse, but the rules for taking these open class features are thus:

1. DM Approval is expressly required. - This should either limit or prepare me for cheese levels if any.
2. The player must meet the prerequisites for the PrC that the ability is taken from, or at least close enough. If ability X is by RAW not attainable until 8th level for example, then that will still apply even if I waive any useless feat tax.
3. All class features are not equal or balanced. They know this going in and so do I :smallwink:
4. The Sorcerer class gains an open class feature at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.

These abilities are for the sole purpose of allowing cool abilities without deviating from the base class. I believe that it will create simpler characters with a broader spectrum of abilities. The overall power level of the PC's has gone up I think a considerable amount, but not gamebreakingly so. The characters have a higher power potential than the players have skill to use them. They are all new to D&D, except 1 guy who played in the last campaign I DM'd 8 years ago. They are mostly going for flavor. My Sorcerer player is taking Sneak Attack for his first feature because that's his character's type of attitude.

nonsi
2015-07-10, 12:40 AM
4. The Sorcerer class gains an open class feature at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.


And what do the other classes get?
And how do PrC-abilities interact with multiclassing?

KoDT69
2015-07-10, 07:24 AM
I will make another thread for the full change list, but in general full casters get a class feature every 5th level. Melee classes gained basically 5 to 10 feats spaced over the 20 levels and 5 to 8 open class features.

I assume the multiclassing question is really asking if the open features can be used as prerequisites for PrC's to which I would say yes. Otherwise they are like any other feature in that if a 4th level Sorcerer multiclasses to Cleric for whatever reason then he will not gain the feature because Cleric 1 does not grant one.

nonsi
2015-07-10, 08:37 AM
I will make another thread for the full change list, but in general full casters get a class feature every 5th level. Melee classes gained basically 5 to 10 feats spaced over the 20 levels and 5 to 8 open class features.

I assume the multiclassing question is really asking if the open features can be used as prerequisites for PrC's to which I would say yes. Otherwise they are like any other feature in that if a 4th level Sorcerer multiclasses to Cleric for whatever reason then he will not gain the feature because Cleric 1 does not grant one.

Are you using core/official base classes (tweaked to whatever degree), or homebrew classes?
I'd really like to see what the classes in your gameworld look like.

KoDT69
2015-07-10, 09:08 PM
I amusing the 3.5 SRD core classes as a base. I will give the complete rundown of core classes in a new thread. I hope the tables can copy/paste properly!

On a side note nonsi, I appreciate your feedback and interest in the big picture.

KoDT69
2015-07-10, 10:19 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427076-KoDT69-s-total-base-class-change-like-we-needed-another!&p=19518179#post19518179