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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next My better weapons list for D&D 5E



Epicbob
2015-07-05, 08:39 AM
Using a slightly altered version of the Boostpoints weapon creator (mostly because it was intended for 3e), I made this list so we can have a *much* better selection of weapons. Except for the dart, ranged weapons are left untouched.

EDIT : I made a couple of adjustments based on feedback.

EDIT II : I put the item weight since I changed it on a couple of items. Also, The Light hammer and Handaxe were moved to the Martial list. The martial list lacks variety within the light selection and the simple list is good enough to spare a few weapons.

The Pike has a new ability. It stacks the Reach and Long property. This means that it can hit targets out to 15 feet but has disadvantage within 5 feet.

While Reach increases range by 5 feet without penalty, Long gives disadvantage within 5 feet.

This way, you now have a reason to carry a giant 18 lb. stick.


Club 1 sp 1d4 B 2 lb. Light, thrown (range 20/60)
Dagger 2 gp 1d4 P 1 lb. Finesse, light
Sickle 1 gp 1d4 S 2 lb. Finesse, light

Javelin 5 sp 1d4 P 2 lb. Thrown (range 40/120)
Mace 5 gp 1d6 B 4 lb. Versatile (1d8)
Spear 1 gp 1d4 P 3 lb. Reach

Greatclub 2 sp 1d10 B 10 lb. Two-handed
Quarterstaff 2 sp 1d6 B 4 lb. Reach, two-handed

Crossbow, light 25 gp 1d8 P 5 lb. Ammunition (range 80/320), loading, two-handed
Dart 5 cp 1d4 P 1/4 lb. Light, thrown (range 20/60)
Shortbow 25 gp 1d6 P 2 lb. Ammunition (range 80/320), two-handed
Sling 1 sp 1d4 B - Ammunition (range 30/120)


Handaxe 5 gp 1d6 S 2 lb. Light, thrown (range 20/60)
Light hammer 2 gp 1d4 B 2 lb. Thrown (range 40/120)
Scimitar 25 gp 1d6 S 3 lb. Finesse, light
Shortsword 10 gp 1d6 P 2 lb. Finesse, light

Battleaxe 10 gp 1d8 S 4 lb. Thrown (range 20/60)
Flail 10 gp 1d6 B 2 lb. Reach
Longsword 15 gp 1d8 S 3 lb. Versatile (1d10)
Morningstar 15 gp 1d8 P 4 lb. Versatile (1d10)
Rapier 25 gp 1d8 P 2 lb. Finesse
Trident 5 gp 1d6 P 4 lb. Reach
Warpick 5 gp 1d8 P 2 lb. Thrown (range 20/60)
Warhammer 15 gp 1d8 B 4 lb. Versatile (1d10)
Whip 2 gp 1d4 S 3 lb. Finesse, reach

Glaive 20 gp 1d8 S 6 lb. Reach, two-handed
Greataxe 30 gp 1d12 S 6 lb. Two-handed
Greatsword 50 gp 2d6 S 7 lb. Heavy, two-handed
Halberd 20 gp 1d10 S 6 lb. Heavy, reach, two-handed
Lance 10 gp 1d8 P 6 lb. Long, ride
Maul 10 gp 2d6 B 10 lb. Heavy, two-handed
Pike 5 gp 1d8 P 18 lb. Heavy, long, reach, two-handed

Blowgun 10 gp 1d1 P 1 lb. Ammunition (range 25/100)
Crossbow, hand 75 gp 1d6 P 3 lb. Ammunition (range 30/120), light, loading
Crossbow, heavy 50 gp 1d10 P 12 lb. Ammunition (range 100/400), heavy, loading, two-handed
Longbow 50 gp 1d8 P 4 lb. Ammunition (range 150/600), heavy, two-handed
Net 1 gp - 3 lb. Entangle, thrown (5/15)

PotatoGolem
2015-07-05, 12:17 PM
Seems odd to me that you can throw a warhammer but not a dagger. Also that a dart deals as much damage as a handaxe.

Wartex1
2015-07-05, 01:08 PM
Also, the Reach property lowers a damage die by 2 levels. That Trident should be 1d4 like the Whip. Finesse doesn't alter damage dies by the way.

PotatoGolem
2015-07-05, 01:26 PM
Also, the Reach property lowers a damage die by 2 levels. That Trident should be 1d4 like the Whip. Finesse doesn't alter damage dies by the way.

How do you figure? All the PHB heavy reach weapons are 1d10- that's only one step down from 2d6/1d12.

Wartex1
2015-07-05, 01:38 PM
It's two steps down from 2d6, as it would go 2d6 -> 1d12 -> 1d10.

The fact that the whip is 1d4 supports this, as a rapier, which has the same special properties without Reach, is 1d8, which is two steps up.

Sindeloke
2015-07-05, 01:59 PM
Saying 2d6->1d12 is an entire step is not balanced.

1d4->1d6->1d8->1d10->1d12 is a balanced progression. With every single step, the average damage increases by 1, the maximum damage increases by 2.

1d12->2d6 is not remotely the same thing. The average damage goes up by 0.5 and the maximum damage doesn't change. The minimum damage rises by 1. This is basically half as powerful as going from 1d10 to 1d12.

The best way to balance weapons is to find some traits worth a .5 increase in damage and some traits worth a 1 increase and make sure neither type is used to counteract the other.

(And to try very hard to avoid damage increases past 1d12, because then you have to start choosing between ridiculous things like "1d10+1d4" or making the jump all the way to 2d8 and either way you've broken the 1-pt advancement again.)

unbeliever536
2015-07-05, 03:21 PM
Saying 2d6->1d12 is an entire step is not balanced.

1d4->1d6->1d8->1d10->1d12 is a balanced progression. With every single step, the average damage increases by 1, the maximum damage increases by 2.

1d12->2d6 is not remotely the same thing. The average damage goes up by 0.5 and the maximum damage doesn't change. The minimum damage rises by 1. This is basically half as powerful as going from 1d10 to 1d12.

The best way to balance weapons is to find some traits worth a .5 increase in damage and some traits worth a 1 increase and make sure neither type is used to counteract the other.

(And to try very hard to avoid damage increases past 1d12, because then you have to start choosing between ridiculous things like "1d10+1d4" or making the jump all the way to 2d8 and either way you've broken the 1-pt advancement again.)

Except the 2d6 also has a significantly better probability distribution. Low damage generally hurts more than high damage helps. Frankly, I think it's a bigger jump than from 1d10 to 1d12.

PotatoGolem
2015-07-05, 04:14 PM
Except the 2d6 also has a significantly better probability distribution. Low damage generally hurts more than high damage helps. Frankly, I think it's a bigger jump than from 1d10 to 1d12.

I'm not sure where you're getting this from. Except in a corner case where an enemy is just above your minimum damage, low damage is about as bad as high damage is good. Also, there are things that benefit more from d12 than 2d6- most notably the half-orc racial and the barbarian Savage Critical. 2d12 is a better crit than 3d6. I think GWF is better with d12 as well- you have a much better chance of really improving your rolls.

PotatoGolem
2015-07-05, 04:19 PM
It's two steps down from 2d6, as it would go 2d6 -> 1d12 -> 1d10.

The fact that the whip is 1d4 supports this, as a rapier, which has the same special properties without Reach, is 1d8, which is two steps up.

But now you're ignoring weapons that don't fit this. The greataxe is d12, but is otherwise functionally identical to the maul and greatsword. I'mnot sure that the whole "base damage plus calculated steps up and down" is how the designers calculated damage in general, but it definitely doesn't seem to support having d12 as the step below 2d6. And that wasn't how it was calculated in past editions, which had explicit rules for increasing/decreasing die sizes. I know 5e isn't 3.x, but that seems like a needless change (and I don't see it being supported in the rules).

Steampunkette
2015-07-05, 04:19 PM
Maybe, but 2d6 with GWF has a higher average.

Ralanr
2015-07-05, 05:08 PM
Maybe, but 2d6 with GWF has a higher average.

Which is kinda the strength of a melee class.

Epicbob
2015-07-05, 06:56 PM
Great to see that my topic is stirring up debates. :)

Originally, I did try to avoid using the 2dx damage rolls but it left me too little wiggling room for my tastes. I would have to experiment some more to see if a 5-step die system can work.

For the Dagger, I decided not to make it a throwing weapon because it was overshadowing the Darts. Otherwise, I would have had to make it a martial weapon. Just pretend the Darts are Kunai or something. ;)

I nerfed the Handaxe because it pretty much made every other weapon obsolete.

As for Finesse, I count it as a -1 to the damage die because it allows you to dump STR. Considering the other stats are arguably a lot more influential, that's a great advantage.

And for what it's worth, I ran a simulated die roll in Excel comparing 1d12 to 2d6. From what I observed, the 2d6's slightly better consistency gave it an edge over the 1d12 when several rolls are executed over time. In short fights, however, it's pretty close.

EDIT : Turns out it wasn't too hard to implement a simpler dice progression. I posted a 2nd list for those interested.

Ogrillian
2015-07-06, 12:34 AM
Speaking of the dart, why did they replace shuriken with the chopstick of doom? And is it counted as simple weapon to be used with martial arts?

Lvl 2 Expert
2015-07-06, 02:23 AM
What I don't like about the 5e weapons list is the lack of choices. The handaxe is the best light weapon, no downsides. (I also don't like that weight and cost are just all over the place, a warhammer weights exactly as much as a light hammer, yeah right, but that's not too interesting game mechanically speaking.)

This list is better in places, the choice between a 1d4 light thrown weapon and a 1d6 light non thrown weapon is interesting, but at the same time the problem seems to still carry through to this list a little. Want a thrown weapon? Get a warpick, because I could totally imagine someone throwing that. It has by far the best damage together with the warhammer and is cheaper than it as the tie-breaker. The range you'd get on the light hammer doesn't even begin to compensate, which in turn means the interesting choice between the light hammer and the handaxe (or interesting for rangers at least) kind of disappears. If you don't have a really good reason to go for a light weapon in your search for something thrown, warpick.

And it's kind of hard to make a balanced list including many interesting choices, I certainly don't have my own list ready as a suggestion. Every choice you change affects other choices. If I'd suggest making the light hammer a light weapon and giving the handaxe 1d6 damage (because you know, that's how it was and you totally didn't change that for a reason, but bear with me here), that might make things more interesting for people looking for a light thrown weapon (range or damage) or a thrown weapon in general (damage or a light weapon), but it murders the interesting choice you've set up for people looking for a light weapon (finesse not an issue) the same way the 5e list does, by giving the handaxe range over the swords, but no drawbacks.

What I do like in 5e is that the list is shorter then in 3.5. There were too many weapons on that list to even theoretically give them all interesting pro's and con's, so half of them would be clearly an inferior choice anyway, which is bad news for anyone who specifically wants that weapon for fluff reasons. I'm glad you kept that part in. And in general your list is probably better balanced than the 5e list, even if not necessarily more realistic.

O, and I like the fact that your club is throwable. Large stereotypical cavemen clubs are nice, but light throwing clubs are way cooler.


Speaking of the dart, why did they replace shuriken with the chopstick of doom? And is it counted as simple weapon to be used with martial arts?
Probably to limit the fluff and story reasons for not using it. If you're not playing a ninja going around throwing shuriken feels like the kind of silly thing you'd only do in a roleplaying game, while darts feel more setting neutral. I guess they're simple weapons because darts, thrown or fired from atlatl's, have been part of the hunters arsenal for as long as we know. Many martial arts weapons are pretty simple. The dagger and the quarterstaff/bo are on the simple list, for good reason. That a weapon is easy to get started with does not mean it can't be hard to truly master.

Epicbob
2015-07-06, 06:23 AM
What I don't like about the 5e weapons list is the lack of choices. The handaxe is the best light weapon, no downsides. (I also don't like that weight and cost are just all over the place, a warhammer weights exactly as much as a light hammer, yeah right, but that's not too interesting game mechanically speaking.)

This list is better in places, the choice between a 1d4 light thrown weapon and a 1d6 light non thrown weapon is interesting, but at the same time the problem seems to still carry through to this list a little. Want a thrown weapon? Get a warpick, because I could totally imagine someone throwing that. It has by far the best damage together with the warhammer and is cheaper than it as the tie-breaker. The range you'd get on the light hammer doesn't even begin to compensate, which in turn means the interesting choice between the light hammer and the handaxe (or interesting for rangers at least) kind of disappears. If you don't have a really good reason to go for a light weapon in your search for something thrown, warpick.

And it's kind of hard to make a balanced list including many interesting choices, I certainly don't have my own list ready as a suggestion. Every choice you change affects other choices. If I'd suggest making the light hammer a light weapon and giving the handaxe 1d6 damage (because you know, that's how it was and you totally didn't change that for a reason, but bear with me here), that might make things more interesting for people looking for a light thrown weapon (range or damage) or a thrown weapon in general (damage or a light weapon), but it murders the interesting choice you've set up for people looking for a light weapon (finesse not an issue) the same way the 5e list does, by giving the handaxe range over the swords, but no drawbacks.

What I do like in 5e is that the list is shorter then in 3.5. There were too many weapons on that list to even theoretically give them all interesting pro's and con's, so half of them would be clearly an inferior choice anyway, which is bad news for anyone who specifically wants that weapon for fluff reasons. I'm glad you kept that part in. And in general your list is probably better balanced than the 5e list, even if not necessarily more realistic.

O, and I like the fact that your club is throwable. Large stereotypical cavemen clubs are nice, but light throwing clubs are way cooler.


Probably to limit the fluff and story reasons for not using it. If you're not playing a ninja going around throwing shuriken feels like the kind of silly thing you'd only do in a roleplaying game, while darts feel more setting neutral. I guess they're simple weapons because darts, thrown or fired from atlatl's, have been part of the hunters arsenal for as long as we know. Many martial arts weapons are pretty simple. The dagger and the quarterstaff/bo are on the simple list, for good reason. That a weapon is easy to get started with does not mean it can't be hard to truly master.

Assuming you're talking about the Mace, it's not a light weapon. Although, you make a good point with the hammer. Thankfully, the only other non-light bludgeoning weapon is the Flail so I could just make it Versatile instead.

For the Handaxe, there's no way I could give it 1d6 and keep it a light throwing weapon. It would basically be a Martial weapon comparable to the Shortsword and Scimitar.

About the War Pick, you can't really compare the Light Hammer to it because they're in different proficiency classes. I do, however, think that the Light Hammer could perform differently so that it's not merely a more expensive Javelin.

Kryx
2015-07-06, 01:52 PM
Why does the net do 1d10 damage? That makes no sense.

Epicbob
2015-07-06, 02:06 PM
Why does the net do 1d10 damage? That makes no sense.

Because it's a +5 Constricting Net of the Boa King. :smallsmile:

Seriously, though, it really does say 1d0. As in, it deals no damage.

JNAProductions
2015-07-06, 02:48 PM
You should probably just list that as 0. 1d0 is unnecessarily confusing.

Epicbob
2015-07-06, 05:20 PM
You should probably just list that as 0. 1d0 is unnecessarily confusing.

I listed it as a dash.

I was looking at the Handaxe and I thought that maybe 1d4 is a little low for the 5 gp price tag. I was juggling with the idea of either taking away the Light property or moving it to the Martial table. Would it conflict with any of the rules or class preset equipment?

Epicbob
2015-07-07, 01:08 PM
I made some more imposing changes.

First, I ditched the 2d4 damage altogether. I could pretty much accomplish what I wanted without the added complexity.

The Handaxe and Light Hammer were returned to their old spot as Martial weapons since the selection of Light weapons was quite lacking.

Also, the Pike now has an ability to justify its massive weight.