Good archer?

[PoeticDwarf]

I'm not going to use this. But how can you make an archer with the most damage.
I mean then, in one round, but also over the course of more rounds.

Maybe 3 paladin (for a magic weapon) 10/12 bard (swift quiver) 2 fighter (action surge, archery style) and 3 assassin with expertise in stealth.

With 12 bard you just have 3x ASI. But you just go variant human with the sharpshooter feat. And you can still have 20 DEX, 14 CON and 18 CHA. So not even the worst.

I don't think this is very optimal, and there are way better archers, I think. But if you go nova you still can go for 4 attacks, all with +12 to hit (with sharpshooter !!!) and every attack 1d8+15 damage. If your surpise it are cricital hits, and with action surge you do even more. With other (stolen) bard spells archery isn't his only ability. Maybe a way to get more rolls, so you do with auto crit more?

Now he CAN have with action surge 16d8+120 if he surprises, what he does if he steals pass without trace and goes for +27 stealth. And in normal 1v1 his damage is 4d8+60. That is't bad if you have +12 to hit. But without the paladin and bard feature. It becomes 2d8+30 with +8 to hit...
As I said, he isn't optimal.

[Sigreid]

Something to keep in mind is rate of fire. For example, a fighter can make a devastating archer, but at level 20 will empty a quiver in 5 rounds, 3 if he pushes himself with action surge. So in addition to over all damage you might want to consider damage per shot. Ammo supply is really the archer's weakness.

[GiantOctopodes]

I'm not going to use this. But how can you make an archer with the most damage.
I mean then, in one round, but also over the course of more rounds.

Maybe 3 paladin (for a magic weapon) 10/12 bard (swift quiver) 2 fighter (action surge, archery style) and 3 assassin with expertise in stealth.

With 12 bard you just have 3x ASI. But you just go variant human with the sharpshooter feat. And you can still have 20 DEX, 14 CON and 18 CHA. So not even the worst.

I don't think this is very optimal, and there are way better archers, I think. But if you go nova you still can go for 4 attacks, all with +12 to hit (with sharpshooter !!!) and every attack 1d8+15 damage. If your surpise it are cricital hits, and with action surge you do even more. With other (stolen) bard spells archery isn't his only ability. Maybe a way to get more rolls, so you do with auto crit more?

Now he CAN have with action surge 16d8+120 if he surprises, what he does if he steals pass without trace and goes for +27 stealth. And in normal 1v1 his damage is 4d8+60. That is't bad if you have +12 to hit. But without the paladin and bard feature. It becomes 2d8+30 with +8 to hit...
As I said, he isn't optimal.


Paladin 2/ Fighter 2 / Bard X is always going to win for single target, single round damage due to blowing all his spell slots on divine smite. If you allow for a *guarantee* of surprise, Assassin 3 suddenly becomes a worthwhile dip (though even then it's arguable due to loss of spell slots cutting down sustained damage.

If you allow for poison damage, Eldritch Knight with self cast haste will top the single class, single target damage rounds, especially for sustained damage. If not, Elemental Weapon will substitute admirably, and the single target will keep him on top.

If you allow for multiple targets, the question becomes how many targets, and how spread out, and under niche situations a Ranger with Volley and Horde Breaker will top the charts. Maybe with a few levels of Sorcerer to throw in a quickened fireball, depending on the number of targets.

Honestly regardless of the *method* of damage dealing, whether ranged or melee, with any other limitations thrown in, the same builds *always* win them, in both the single class and multiclass categories. It's a shame really, but I don't think you'll find any surprises here.

Edit:

Something to keep in mind is rate of fire. For example, a fighter can make a devastating archer, but at level 20 will empty a quiver in 5 rounds, 3 if he pushes himself with action surge. So in addition to over all damage you might want to consider damage per shot. Ammo supply is really the archer's weakness.

Not really. You're allowed Str x 15 lbs of equipment, and it's only 1lb for 20 shots. 15 lbs of ammo (1/8th of your carrying capacity at MOST) gets you 300 shots, which even at 6 attacks per round (4+haste+bonus action, the most sustained you can do) gets you 50 rounds of combat. More, since you can recover ammo, and on top of that it's able to be crafted quickly and easily and costs virtually nothing to replace. I've never seen ammo availability a concern in any game I've played yet, at least.

[Sigreid]

I thought smite only applied to melee attacks?

[GiantOctopodes]

I thought smite only applied to melee attacks?

aha, absolutely correct! Take them off the list then, and you're left with Fighter 20 as the king archer, bar none.

Edit: The reason Bard 10+ loses out is it precludes the 3rd attack from Fighter, trading 1 more attack every round for the ability to do two attacks as bonus actions rather than 1 (basically, 1 more attack every round). It also requires concentration, which precludes using Haste (if your damage per attack is high enough for it to be justified) which adds an extra attack as well, on top of the one Fighter 11 gets, or Elemental Weapon or similar (if your damage per attack is low enough for it to be justified). For nova damage as well, since Action Surge provides two full attacks, doubling the 3rd attack granted by Fighter 11, but not doubling the extra attack from Swift Quiver, it just falls further behind. Fighter 20 gets a 4th attack and two Action Surges, along with EK providing self cast haste or Elemental Weapon, just putting it out of reach of anything else within the parameters described.

[Naanomi]

Depends on what you mean by archer. A long-bow using long ranged type is a lot different than a hand crossbow focused mid-range quick shot.

Ranger, bard, fighter, and rogue are all in the running as componants, but how you put them together can vary depending on weapon and strategy of choice

[GiantOctopodes]

Depends on what you mean by archer. A long-bow using long ranged type is a lot different than a hand crossbow focused mid-range quick shot.

Ranger, bard, fighter, and rogue are all in the running as componants, but how you put them together can vary depending on weapon and strategy of choice

Sadly not, at least not in the parameters given. "Most damage", without a specification of including multiple targets (which could put the Ranger in contention) is pretty cut and dry. If using feats, Crossbows will always deal more damage than Bows thanks to Crossbow Expert not having an equivalent in Bows. Since Sharpshooter ignores penalties based on range, unless it's completely out of range that won't take effect either, and since Fighter has more ASIs than others, he can have both of those while still having as many ASIs as the other classes have available. Bard and Rogue, even if you grant the Rogue auto sneak attack every round, just can't keep up due to lower number of attacks.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't many other reasons to choose Ranger, Bard, Rogue, or whatever else (even Barbarian Archer can *work*, and they can be fantastic with thrown weapons), but in white room scenarios like this one with just you and one target trying to max damage, there is sadly a clear winner and it's not even that close.

[Gurka]

Not really. You're allowed Str x 15 lbs of equipment, and it's only 1lb for 20 shots. 15 lbs of ammo (1/8th of your carrying capacity at MOST) gets you 300 shots, which even at 6 attacks per round (4+haste+bonus action, the most sustained you can do) gets you 50 rounds of combat. More, since you can recover ammo, and on top of that it's able to be crafted quickly and easily and costs virtually nothing to replace. I've never seen ammo availability a concern in any game I've played yet, at least.

Ammo has definitely been a concern in several games I've been in, so it does happen. Also, with my group, we're not limited in carry capacity by mere weight. We also use common sense. 300 arrows is LOT. They are light weight objects, but take a lot of space to contain. It's the same reason that even though they can handle the weight, by the rules, I don't let the fighter just wander around with a fully packed armoire on his back. By the rules it's doable, but after a certain point it becomes ridiculous.

Both as a player and as a DM, I've been part of siege situations, attrition campaigns, days or weeks long survival scenarios. It's not the standard game-type situation, but they have also made for some of the most tense and entertaining sessions we've had as well. Then again, my group has never been the "lets go find a dungeon, look for something scary, and hit it until it's hitpoints go down to zero!" type.

[ImSAMazing]

There is a smite that works, searing I believe. If you classify an ranged attacker as Archer, you can fluff a Warlock that he shoots his spells thru a bow. That means 4d10+20 at-will with maxed out Charisma when you are lvl 20(17 works to). If you use Hex(which you will), you will deal 4d10+20+4d6 damage which is a lot. Hexed Scorching Ray is even better, 18d6 damage 4 times a short rest. A dip in Assassin for bonus action hide, expertise in Stealth and auto-crit on surprise will help to.

[PoeticDwarf]

I thought smite only applied to melee attacks?

I'm a paladin for the magic weapon (+4 attack rolls)

[PoeticDwarf]

There is a smite that works, searing I believe. If you classify an ranged attacker as Archer, you can fluff a Warlock that he shoots his spells thru a bow. That means 4d10+20 at-will with maxed out Charisma when you are lvl 20(17 works to). If you use Hex(which you will), you will deal 4d10+20+4d6 damage which is a lot. Hexed Scorching Ray is even better, 18d6 damage 4 times a short rest. A dip in Assassin for bonus action hide, expertise in Stealth and auto-crit on surprise will help to.

I want an archer. There aren't lv. 1 ranged spells and the lv. 2 slell is branding smite

[Ramshack]

20 Fighter is incredibly strong in this regard, 4 Attacks an action, with Ranged Weapon Feat for the -5 +10 and +2 Attack Archer style you can easily push 4dx + 60 depending on the bow you're using and any magical properties assuming a 20 dex. If you're using a Cross Bow you can also use your bonus action for an extra shot. for an additional 1dx +15, if action surge both rounds thats 9dx +135 2 rounds in a row again not counting any magical weapon properties etc. You can also gain an 18-20 crit range with champion, trick shots with battlemaster or if you take EK you can haste yourself for yet another shot each turn.

Valor Bard is also a strong option, 20 dex, full spell casting 2 attacks around and swift quiver for 2 more shots with a bonus action. You can still take the -5+10 archery feat, lose the +2 attack from fighter (though 3 fighter, 17 bard is a strong multi class option) but you cant get a bonus attack with crossbows since you're using your bonus action through swift quiver. You also can't gain haste on your own since you're using your concentration on swift quiver.

Ranger can do the same thing as a bard and 3 fighter, 17 ranger multiclass is strong too but also gains bonus die from collosus slayer but loses the full casting support of the bard. Same feat options and spells exist for the ranger as with the bard too.

The last is a the Archer Rogue, a 3 Fighter, 17 Rogue works here too, but you get 1dx +10d6 +15, you can also take the -5 +10 archer feat and cross bow feat for a bonus attack. If you take arcane trickster you can haste for an extra attack too. If you go assassin your first attack can auto crit and do double damage is nice.

For pure sustained damage though I don't think anything beats either a Champion Fighter for the 18-20 crit range or Eldritch Knight 20 for an extra attack with haste. I think the Champion fighter has the highest mathmatical damage but the EK gains some added utility and an extra shot.

[GiantOctopodes]

I'm a paladin for the magic weapon (+4 attack rolls)

Hrmm, that's actually somewhat promising. Here, let me run some numbers for you:

Eldritch Knight 20 (if Poison applies and / or is permissible for this thought experiment, and assuming no pre-venomed arrows. Going with Wyvern venom since they're called out as a possible mount, and thus that should be relatively easy to acquire in significant quantities at 20th level)

Round 1: Casts haste (action), uses haste Use an Object action to envenom 3 bolts, uses Action Surge to generate a second action, uses the Attack action to fire 4 bolts (3 of which are envenomed) using his Heavy Crossbow, uses a bonus action to fire a 5th bolt, all of which have Sharpshooter applied.

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x2 = 5d10+21d6+75 damage (average 176 assuming all hit)

Round 2: Uses Haste action to envenom 3 bolts, uses Action and 2nd Action granted by Action Surge to attack, uses bonus action to attack, for a total of 9 attacks, 3 of which are envenomed

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x6 = 9d10+21d6+135 damage (average 258 assuming all hit)

Round 3 and subsequent rounds: Haste to envenom, action and bonus action for 5 attacks total, 3 envenomed

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x2 = 5d10+21d6+75 damage (average 176 assuming all hit)

Now, if poison is ineffective against the enemy in question, or if it's unavailable, or whatever else, swap out the damage bonus there for Elemental Weapon, which provides 1d4 damage per hit, resulting in 115 damage on the 1st (and 3rd and subsequent rounds), and 207 damage on the 2nd round.

The Paladin, meanwhile, has no more than 2 attacks before Action Surge goes into effect, so assuming the same tactics, he gets 3d10+21d6+45 damage in the first round (135) and all subsequent rounds (no 2nd action surge to boost the 2nd round damage). he's only doing 76% of the damage, which means he needs to hit 130% as often to make up for it. Doable, assuming high enough monster ACs, but making up for that 2nd round means that the combat would need to drag on forever (depending on how much of a gap you have, which is predicated on the monster needing a 10+ to hit, thus having an AC of 19 or higher) it would take far too long to make up for the lost ground.

However, if poison is ineffective, the Paladin 3 / Bard 17 can use Elemental Weapon in a 7th level or higher slot, resulting in the palty damage of (1d10+3d4+15)x3 = 84 damage per round, but you would be attacking at an attack bonus of 6 higher than the Eldritch Knight (a total bonus of +15 with Sharpshooter vs +9 for the Eldritch Knight) which depending on the enemy's AC would *absolutely* make up for the difference.

Now, that is of course predicated on it being a non-magical weapon in the first place. If you allow, however, something like an Oathbow, well, the Eldritch Knight goes back to absolutely dominating the conversation. So at least, against poison immune enemies where no magic weapons are handy, the Bard/ Paladin can put up a very strong showing indeed!

Edit:


For pure sustained damage though I don't think anything beats either a Champion Fighter for the 18-20 crit range or Eldritch Knight 20 for an extra attack with haste. I think the Champion fighter has the highest mathmatical damage but the EK gains some added utility and an extra shot.

Only if Poison does not come into play (otherwise Haste is essential to maxing DPR). It also helps a lot to have an Oathbow or some other form of auto advantage, as otherwise it's just a 10% increase in the chance to crit, and since crits don't double poison damage or static modifiers, it's a 15% overall (10% greater) chance to get a relatively paltry +1d10 damage. Now, if it's a Half Orc, with an Oathbow, getting a nearly 20% greater chance (27.75% chance vs 9.75% chance) of dealing an extra 2d10+3d6 damage (average 21.5 additional damage) is something worth considering, as it's equivalent to over 4 damage per attack in additional damage, and even with relatively low numbers needed to hit the Eldrick Knight just can't keep up.

[Tarvil]

IMO, pure Battlemaster is very good Archer. Many attacks, cool "special arrows" from Battlemaster. Take "Magic Initiate" for Hunter's Mark and you'll have very potent ranged combatant.

[Ramshack]

Hrmm, that's actually somewhat promising. Here, let me run some numbers for you:

Eldritch Knight 20 (if Poison applies and / or is permissible for this thought experiment, and assuming no pre-venomed arrows. Going with Wyvern venom since they're called out as a possible mount, and thus that should be relatively easy to acquire in significant quantities at 20th level)

Round 1: Casts haste (action), uses haste Use an Object action to envenom 3 bolts, uses Action Surge to generate a second action, uses the Attack action to fire 4 bolts (3 of which are envenomed) using his Heavy Crossbow, uses a bonus action to fire a 5th bolt, all of which have Sharpshooter applied.

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x2 = 5d10+21d6+75 damage (average 176 assuming all hit)

Round 2: Uses Haste action to envenom 3 bolts, uses Action and 2nd Action granted by Action Surge to attack, uses bonus action to attack, for a total of 9 attacks, 3 of which are envenomed

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x6 = 9d10+21d6+135 damage (average 258 assuming all hit)

Round 3 and subsequent rounds: Haste to envenom, action and bonus action for 5 attacks total, 3 envenomed

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x2 = 5d10+21d6+75 damage (average 176 assuming all hit)

Now, if poison is ineffective against the enemy in question, or if it's unavailable, or whatever else, swap out the damage bonus there for Elemental Weapon, which provides 1d4 damage per hit, resulting in 115 damage on the 1st (and 3rd and subsequent rounds), and 207 damage on the 2nd round.

The Paladin, meanwhile, has no more than 2 attacks before Action Surge goes into effect, so assuming the same tactics, he gets 3d10+21d6+45 damage in the first round (135) and all subsequent rounds (no 2nd action surge to boost the 2nd round damage). he's only doing 76% of the damage, which means he needs to hit 130% as often to make up for it. Doable, assuming high enough monster ACs, but making up for that 2nd round means that the combat would need to drag on forever (depending on how much of a gap you have, which is predicated on the monster needing a 10+ to hit, thus having an AC of 19 or higher) it would take far too long to make up for the lost ground.

However, if poison is ineffective, the Paladin 3 / Bard 17 can use Elemental Weapon in a 7th level or higher slot, resulting in the palty damage of (1d10+3d4+15)x3 = 84 damage per round, but you would be attacking at an attack bonus of 6 higher than the Eldritch Knight (a total bonus of +15 with Sharpshooter vs +9 for the Eldritch Knight) which depending on the enemy's AC would *absolutely* make up for the difference.

Now, that is of course predicated on it being a non-magical weapon in the first place. If you allow, however, something like an Oathbow, well, the Eldritch Knight goes back to absolutely dominating the conversation. So at least, against poison immune enemies where no magic weapons are handy, the Bard/ Paladin can put up a very strong showing indeed!

Edit:


Only if Poison does not come into play (otherwise Haste is essential to maxing DPR). It also helps a lot to have an Oathbow or some other form of auto advantage, as otherwise it's just a 10% increase in the chance to crit, and since crits don't double poison damage or static modifiers, it's a 15% overall (10% greater) chance to get a relatively paltry +1d10 damage. Now, if it's a Half Orc, with an Oathbow, getting a nearly 20% greater chance (27.75% chance vs 9.75% chance) of dealing an extra 2d10+3d6 damage (average 21.5 additional damage) is something worth considering, as it's equivalent to over 4 damage per attack in additional damage, and even with relatively low numbers needed to hit the Eldrick Knight just can't keep up.

All good points, There are several strong options and I think the player really needs to decide what works best for them. Poison is a good thing to consider, but I'm just using class specific rules, anyone can really buy poisons or magical items etc.

For my Money I'd choose EK Fighter as I think it offers amazing sustained damage, self buffs and spell utility. Second choice is followed by Bard, because even though you wont deal as much sustained damage, 9th level spells is pretty boss plus some clever uses of your inspiration die etc.

But pick something that fits your play style. 5e isn't really about optimization (yet) and all classes can contribute in a campaign.

[farahgondal]

Good archer

http://wetakepic.com/images/2015/07/05/archer.jpg

[coredump]

Hrmm, that's actually somewhat promising. Here, let me run some numbers for you:

Eldritch Knight 20 (if Poison applies and / or is permissible for this thought experiment, and assuming no pre-venomed arrows. Going with Wyvern venom since they're called out as a possible mount, and thus that should be relatively easy to acquire in significant quantities at 20th level)

Round 1: Casts haste (action), uses haste Use an Object action to envenom 3 bolts, uses Action Surge to generate a second action, uses the Attack action to fire 4 bolts (3 of which are envenomed) using his Heavy Crossbow, uses a bonus action to fire a 5th bolt, all of which have Sharpshooter applied.

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x2 = 5d10+21d6+75 damage (average 176 assuming all hit)

Round 2: Uses Haste action to envenom 3 bolts, uses Action and 2nd Action granted by Action Surge to attack, uses bonus action to attack, for a total of 9 attacks, 3 of which are envenomed

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x6 = 9d10+21d6+135 damage (average 258 assuming all hit)

Round 3 and subsequent rounds: Haste to envenom, action and bonus action for 5 attacks total, 3 envenomed

Total damage: (1d10+7d6+15)x3 + (1d10+15)x2 = 5d10+21d6+75 damage (average 176 assuming all hit)


Assuming 7 encounters a day of 3 rounds each, between short rests, you are talking about 32,400gp of poison a *day* for this build. Even if you did somehow own a wyvern, and could milk it yourself, and it didn't try and kill you... you still need to successfully pull out 27 doses a day to keep up.

Also, what am I missing. How are you getting a bonus attack each round?

[Ramshack]

Assuming 7 encounters a day of 3 rounds each, between short rests, you are talking about 32,400gp of poison a *day* for this build. Even if you did somehow own a wyvern, and could milk it yourself, and it didn't try and kill you... you still need to successfully pull out 27 doses a day to keep up.

Also, what am I missing. How are you getting a bonus attack each round?

Think he is assuming crossbow expert for the bonus attack.

[GiantOctopodes]

Assuming 7 encounters a day of 3 rounds each, between short rests, you are talking about 32,400gp of poison a *day* for this build. Even if you did somehow own a wyvern, and could milk it yourself, and it didn't try and kill you... you still need to successfully pull out 27 doses a day to keep up.

Also, what am I missing. How are you getting a bonus attack each round?

Nah, you use Giant Serpent Venom for petty encounters, you save the Wyvern Venom for when it counts. Owning a wyvern? Totally doable, they talk about raising one from an egg for a mount. Not killing you? Well, if it just tries to kill you, it wouldn't be a very good mount, right? The milking of it, it's tough to say exactly how often you would be able to do so (it's one of those things entirely at DM discretion and not defined in the books), but that's what downtime is for- while they're practicing their petty metalworking, you're extracting tens of thousands of GP of poison while your Wyvern pal sleeps.

Due to the insane valuations on poison, it's both a) unrealistic to obtain any long term quantities of poison through purchasing, so you've basically got to milk it yourself, and b) the most profitable activity in the game to milk venom from poisonous creatures, even if just Giant Poisonous Snakes, as a single dose of it has the same value as over Half a Year of money making from the other methods provided in the DMG, with Wyvern venom (one dose!) selling for roughly as much as full plate, off of something that can be freely (!) harvested from such creatures. If they're anything like real life, milking anywhere from once a week to once a day is well within reason, and then a Giant Poisonous Snake farmer with a total herd size of 1 is making conservatively 10,000 GP a year (nearly 30GP a day, more than what is made crafting magic items) from harvesting venom, and as you've indicated, demand should be *insane* due to how potent it is and how quickly supplies can be burned through, so finding a seller should not be an issue.

The long story short is that the DMG prices for poison are *way* off, and any DM who chooses to stick with them should not have venom able to be harvested. Any DM who does want them to be harvested should seriously re-evaluate the valuations on them, maybe making them *not* more expensive than a magic item for a single dose. I do not propose to speak as to your ability to obtain such resources in any given campaign, but in white room scenarios like this, it leads the pack in damage and thus cannot be ignored.

Not saying it's easy to sustain that damage mark, just that it's possible :-)

Edit: Oh yeah, and naturally, Crossbow Expert is indeed the source of the bonus attack. Sorry, should have specified that.

[zinycor]

I would go ranger, mainly because most of their spells are plavored towards archer very nicely.

[Sigreid]

I would go ranger, mainly because most of their spells are plavored towards archer very nicely.

Rangers are cool, but for the question asked I'm going to stick with the fighter. There are classes that under specific circumstances can out damage them but fighters are tops for consistent under any circumstances damage. As long as he has arrows, he's going to maintain a high damage output with no need for spells, poisons, surprise or advantage.

[GiantOctopodes]

Rangers are cool, but for the question asked I'm going to stick with the fighter. There are classes that under specific circumstances can out damage them but fighters are tops for consistent under any circumstances damage. As long as he has arrows, he's going to maintain a high damage output with no need for spells, poisons, surprise or advantage.

Not that any of those things hurt to have, of course :smallsmile:

[Sigreid]

Not that any of those things hurt to have, of course :smallsmile:

No, certainly not. Every adventurer or warrior should be aiming for every edge they can get. A fair fight is a stupid idea. :belkar:

[coredump]

Edit: Oh yeah, and naturally, Crossbow Expert is indeed the source of the bonus attack. Sorry, should have specified that.

Let me rephrase the question.... how are you getting a bonus attack each round with a heavy crossbow?

And no, it is not reasonable to do a comparison based on needing a super expensive poison dozens of times a day. If you want to claim a fighter is the best archer, you need to do it with the fighter's capabilities.

Otherwise its a Ranger Hunter... you just make sure you are always fighting lots of enemies closely packed.

If you have to make wild and unreasonable assumptions, the comparisons are meaningless.

[Malifice]

I like BM Fighter 12, Assassin Rogue 5, Hunter Ranger 3. Wood Elf: Feats: Sharpshooter, Crossbow expert. ASI: All to Dex (then whatever, or take Resilient: Wis, Lucky or Mobile) Weapon of choice hand crossbow.

Key class + racial features: Archery and defense fighting style, extra attack (2), action surge, superiority dice (5d10), sneak attack +3d6, assassinate, uncanny dodge, expertise (stealth, perception), Colossus slayer (+1d8), cunning action, 35' move, mask of the wild. Key spells: hunters mark. Key manouvers: Menacing attack, precision attack, pushing attack.

Churns out excellent damage at all levels. Variant human gives extra damage at the 1-3 range (although those levels are over fairly quickly) at the cost of mark of the wild and the extra 5' movement.

Nova strike at 20th level, Dex 20 without assassinate or crits:

17d6+105+5d10+1d8 (plus pushing over cliffs or outside of melee range with pushing attack or giving them the frightened condition stopping them moving towards you with menacing attack. precision attack used to land any sharpshooter hits that miss).

With surprise +assassinate (stealth +17 and mask of the wild):

34d6+105+10d10+2d8

Can kite with ease thanks to cunning action and 35' base move. Solid defense with defense fighting style, indomitable, second wind, uncanny dodge. Good OOC and scouting utility with ranger/ rogue skills and expertise.

Magic bow and arrows (stack) for solid DPR increase.

[Dralnu]

Huh. My playgroup has totally forgotten about weight limits in arrows for almost a decade now. I wonder if that's a thing that I should bring back.

[Sigreid]

Let me rephrase the question.... how are you getting a bonus attack each round with a heavy crossbow?

And no, it is not reasonable to do a comparison based on needing a super expensive poison dozens of times a day. If you want to claim a fighter is the best archer, you need to do it with the fighter's capabilities.

Otherwise its a Ranger Hunter... you just make sure you are always fighting lots of enemies closely packed.

If you have to make wild and unreasonable assumptions, the comparisons are meaningless.

Well, for my part I was basing it on fighter Dex 20 and sharpshooter. 4 attacks per round at +15 damage each for +60 before the first die is even rolled, or +120 damage before roll on a action surge Admittedly assuming all hit). If you use a hand crossbow so you can use your bonus action, that goes up to +75/+135 before the roll. To even approach that a hunter ranger has to have a special circumstance (lots of enemies close together) or burn spells. and each + to the bow adds 4-9 additional damage. Depending on the style of the campaign or the pacing these can come up a lot or rarely. As a side note, the +1d8 for hitting a wounded opponent affects only one attack per round. I don't think that's fair, but It's the design.

Anyway, with no tricks and no special setup the fighter is the archery damage dealer. That being said, the ranger's tricks are absolutely part of the class and should be considered. I've just not seen a ranger in action as an archer so I can't accurately say how they play out outside a white room. All I can say for certain is that the fighter isn't penalized by anything but incapacitation or running out of ammo.

[Sigreid]

Huh. My playgroup has totally forgotten about weight limits in arrows for almost a decade now. I wonder if that's a thing that I should bring back.

As someone said earlier the real issue isn't the weight, it's the bulk. If you find yourself in a Cabela's or Big 5 or something go look at the archery section and see how much room a quiver of 20 arrows would take up and think about how many of those bundles you could strap to yourself before they become awkward and hampering. Of course a Quiver of Elonia or whatever it is can help considerably and that should be number 1 on any archer's wish list.

[Ashrym]

My preference is battlemaster archer, followed by hunter archer. Hunter's prey, hunter's mark, and the fighting style are worthwhile on the ranger.

As for acquiring wyverns, there are trained riding wyverns when the group gets to the giant's castle in HotDQ that require DC 10 animal handling checks. Those are potential party property.

Edit: regarding ammo, half is recoverable after combat so 3 rounds of combat don't deplete the quiver, normally, but 2 quivers is easy enough to carry and a spare supply on a pack animal left at camp.

Actually running out might mean a temporary weapon change. It's only long dungeons at high enough level to shoot 4+ per turn where a person might eventually run into issues.

[GiantOctopodes]

Let me rephrase the question.... how are you getting a bonus attack each round with a heavy crossbow?


Aha, good catch, sorry. Indeed it would need to be a hand crossbow, so it'd be 2 less damage per attack (166, 240, 166 respectively)



And no, it is not reasonable to do a comparison based on needing a super expensive poison dozens of times a day. If you want to claim a fighter is the best archer, you need to do it with the fighter's capabilities.


Who are you to determine what is reasonable? The OP asked what the highest damage Archer is, Poisons are commonly available. The Fighter is the best equipped to take advantage of that. I even prefaced the section with "if Poison applies and / or is permissible for this thought experiment, and assuming no pre-venomed arrows", followed it up with "Now, if poison is ineffective against the enemy in question, or if it's unavailable, or whatever else", proceeded to do exactly what you indicate I "need" to do and did comparisons only using self contained abilities, and then move on to postulate on how the presence or absence of magic items would impact that.

And by the way, I don't "need" to do anything of the sort. I was working off the OP's stated criteria, and postulated on how different variables might impact the situation from the start. If the OP had said "best archer, excluding poison" I would agree with you, but no such exclusion was made. And how is "free" (when being milked, the reason I went with Wyvern Venom and not, let's say, Purple Worm poison) super expensive? And who says this Archer needs to do his damage dozens of times per day? Look, if you want to make your own thread postulating who is the "best archer" (which is not what the OP asked for, they asked for most damage) within a given criteria, feel free.



Otherwise its a Ranger Hunter... you just make sure you are always fighting lots of enemies closely packed.

No kidding.


If you allow for multiple targets, the question becomes how many targets, and how spread out, and under niche situations a Ranger with Volley and Horde Breaker will top the charts.




If you have to make wild and unreasonable assumptions, the comparisons are meaningless.
I disagree that it's a "wild and unreasonable assumption", in the first place, and second of all, if you disagree with that part of my breakdown, ignore it! It is a part of a more comprehensive answer which breaks down the impact that different variables have on the answer to the OP's question. The part of my post you failed to quote breaks down exactly how it goes if poison is *not* a factor. So if that's the part of my post that deals with the impact Poison has on the answer, and proceeds to break down how various classes can take advantage of that, and holds those same assumptions common across the classes being compared, how are the comparisons meaningless?

And in terms of the assumptions, are you saying that it is impossible to tame a Wyvern? That flies in the face of the Monster Manual. Are you saying it's impossible to milk Wyverns for venom? That flies in the face of the DMG rules on poison. So how would ready access to that be a "wild and unreasonable" assumption in the first place?

Look, it's one thing to point out errors in my math. Every single one of my damage figures is 2 points too high per attack, that's a legitimate point and one I missed (I don't play a crossbow wielder, it's been a while since I looked at crossbow expert). But in terms of saying that my comparisons are meaningless? No duh. Everything we do and discuss on here is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It's a thought experiment, and unless it was your thought experiment (and unless you and EnderDwarf are the same person, it wasn't) then I don't see how you can possibly tell me I performed that experiment wrong, especially for providing a more complete answer and *not* blatantly ignoring the materials an archer can use to increase their damage, when the discussion is how an Archer can do the most damage possible.


I like BM Fighter 12, Assassin Rogue 5, Hunter Ranger 3. Wood Elf: Feats: Sharpshooter, Crossbow expert. ASI: All to Dex (then whatever, or take Resilient: Wis, Lucky or Mobile) Weapon of choice hand crossbow.

Key class + racial features: Archery and defense fighting style, extra attack (2), action surge, superiority dice (5d10), sneak attack +3d6, assassinate, uncanny dodge, expertise (stealth, perception), Colossus slayer (+1d8), cunning action, 35' move, mask of the wild. Key spells: hunters mark. Key manouvers: Menacing attack, precision attack, pushing attack.

Churns out excellent damage at all levels. Variant human gives extra damage at the 1-3 range (although those levels are over fairly quickly) at the cost of mark of the wild and the extra 5' movement.

Nova strike at 20th level, Dex 20 without assassinate or crits:

17d6+105+5d10+1d8 (plus pushing over cliffs or outside of melee range with pushing attack or giving them the frightened condition stopping them moving towards you with menacing attack. precision attack used to land any sharpshooter hits that miss).


I'm not seeing how you get 17d6. Normally your numbers for your builds make total sense (you really opened my eyes to what Paladins can do), but here, I get the 7 attacks, +15 x7 for sharpshooter and dex, 5d10 superiority, 1d8 colossus slayer, 3d6 sneak attack (which I don't know where you're getting the advantage for this, but I'm not too worried about that), and 7d6 weapon damage. But where did the other 7d6 come from? I know I must be missing something, I just haven't sorted it out yet.

[PoeticDwarf]

I would go ranger, mainly because most of their spells are plavored towards archer very nicely.

A bard can steal the spells, and have spells like swift quiver at level 10...

[zinycor]

A bard can steal the spells, and have spells like swift quiver at level 10...

Yep, however i would still go ranger because of the thing s the hunter archetype gives

[coredump]

Who are you to determine what is reasonable? .
Before you spend another 6 long paragraphs on this.... its pretty simple. If the solution you come up with relies on using 30K gp *per day* to achieve those resuilts.... it is not reasonable. Especially if its dozens of doses of a rare and illegal item.

Other unreasonable suggestions

A ranger that only shoots at large groups of targets closely packed.

A merchant that spends 30K gp a day to hire 15,000 archers to help him out

A Druid who has a DM that allows him an ancient dragon as a companion

A Barbarian with an unlimited supply of Arrows of Slaying

Any Gnome with a DM that gives him access to a Gnomish Gatling ballista

etc

etc

If you think a fighter is the best archer, cool... then show that. But anything that relies on >30K gp a day to 'work' is not reasonable. Anything that relies on a DM to be super generous in many ways, is not a reasonable comparison.



H
Now, if poison is ineffective against the enemy in question, or if it's unavailable, or whatever else, swap out the damage bonus there for Elemental Weapon, which provides 1d4 damage per hit, resulting in 115 damage on the 1st (and 3rd and subsequent rounds), and 207 damage on the 2nd round.
.

Okay, if we assume we are not blowing through 30K a day in poison, that leaves Elemental Weapon. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with Haste, since they are both concentration. Plus, they are both 3rd level, which means can't sustain it at all. Combined with the Heavy/Handbow issue, I think we are left with

Damage: 1D6+5+10
4 attacks per Attack Action, 1 attack per Bonus action, 1 attack per Haste action

Assuming 7 encounters a day, 3 rounds each, 2 Short rests, and casting Haste 4 times a day (Max for EK20) we get

21 rounds, 27 Actions, 23 Attack Actions for 92 attacks, 4 Cast a Spell actions, 21 bonus actions for 21 attacks, 12 Haste actions for 12 attacks for a total of 125 attacks of 1D6+5+10 for daily sustained damage.

Single round without pre-buff is 9 attacks, with haste pre-buffed would be 10 attacks.

Looking at all of the creatures >CR15, we get an average AC of 20. Assuming Archery style, 20 Dex, level 20.... +13 Attk means 7+ to hit, which gives us a total of 1,062.5 hp of damage for the adventuring day. The Nova damage would be 76.5 or 85 hp depending on pre-buffing.

Does that sound about right? Do you want to stick by this as your "King Archer", or do you have another selection?

[GiantOctopodes]

Okay, if we assume we are not blowing through 30K a day in poison, that leaves Elemental Weapon. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with Haste, since they are both concentration. Plus, they are both 3rd level, which means can't sustain it at all. Combined with the Heavy/Handbow issue, I think we are left with

Damage: 1D6+5+10
4 attacks per Attack Action, 1 attack per Bonus action, 1 attack per Haste action

Assuming 7 encounters a day, 3 rounds each, 2 Short rests, and casting Haste 4 times a day (Max for EK20) we get

21 rounds, 27 Actions, 23 Attack Actions for 92 attacks, 4 Cast a Spell actions, 21 bonus actions for 21 attacks, 12 Haste actions for 12 attacks for a total of 125 attacks of 1D6+5+10 for daily sustained damage.

Single round without pre-buff is 9 attacks, with haste pre-buffed would be 10 attacks.

Looking at all of the creatures >CR15, we get an average AC of 20. Assuming Archery style, 20 Dex, level 20.... +13 Attk means 7+ to hit, which gives us a total of 1,062.5 hp of damage for the adventuring day. The Nova damage would be 76.5 or 85 hp depending on pre-buffing.

Does that sound about right? Do you want to stick by this as your "King Archer", or do you have another selection?

You do know that I wasn't using haste with the elemental weapon build, right? Haste was used for the "use an object" action, not the extra attack. I mean, haste is only one attack, which is 1d6+15 at most, thus 18.5 * hit percentage. When you have 5 attacks per round already, the extra +1 attack (more reliable hits) and 1d4 damage is a superior option, since it's an extra 12.5 damage *and* better hit percentage. Your to hit figures fail to incorporate sharpshooter, and you assume the Eldritch Knight stops casting spells when he runs out of "haste" (elemental weapon, seriously- against AC 20 opponents, 5 attacks at 1d6+1d4+15 with a 50% hit rate is 51.75 expected DPR, whereas 6 attacks at 1d6+15 with a 45% hit rate is 44 DPR, more than 10% lower) he stops casting spells. What happened to his 2nd level slots of Magic Weapon? There is virtually nothing in your "analysis" that is correct. It also assumes that at 20th level, he has not a single magic item?

More importantly, what's your build? If you want to compare expected battle performance, feel free to toss out your contender any time.

[coredump]

You do know that I wasn't using haste with the elemental weapon build, right?
Your to hit figures fail to incorporate sharpshooter,
you assume the Eldritch Knight stops casting spells when he runs out of "haste" he stops casting spells. What happened to his 2nd level slots of Magic Weapon?
There is virtually nothing in your "analysis" that is correct. It also assumes that at 20th level, he has not a single magic item?

1) No I didn't, because you never said anything about that. You said to 'swap out the poison damage for Elemental weapon', since you had already made a number of rules mistakes in the thread, I had no way of knowing if this was another one. Which brings up the next problem. *HOW* are you casting Elemental weapon? It isn't a wizard spell.
2) I most certainly did factor in the SS extra damage and the -5 on attack
3) He cast all the spells you mentioned in your 'build'. I am not the EK expert, nor the person declaring him the "King Archer, bar none". If you want to use other spells, just mention them.
4) Apparently everything about the analysis was correct, except the parts you never mentioned.... And I utilized the exact same number of magic weapons that you did.... Seems that was how you wanted it, since you mentioned using Elemental Weapon, and now Magic Weapon.

Of course, now that you say you don't want Haste, and you can't cast Elemental weapon.... not sure how much is left of your build concept, nor what you will want to do next.

So.... lets try using Haste 4 times, and then using Magic Weapon for the final 3 encounters. And since it lasts 1 hr, lets be nice and assume it is always pre-buffed, and you never fail concentration. (Of course, we also assumed you never lose concentration with Haste either.) So that brings up the daily damage to a healthy 1125hp.

Does that sound about right?

[GiantOctopodes]

1) No I didn't, because you never said anything about that. You said to 'swap out the poison damage for Elemental weapon', since you had already made a number of rules mistakes in the thread, I had no way of knowing if this was another one. Which brings up the next problem. *HOW* are you casting Elemental weapon? It isn't a wizard spell.
2) I most certainly did factor in the SS extra damage and the -5 on attack
3) He cast all the spells you mentioned in your 'build'. I am not the EK expert, nor the person declaring him the "King Archer, bar none". If you want to use other spells, just mention them.
4) Apparently everything about the analysis was correct, except the parts you never mentioned.... And I utilized the exact same number of magic weapons that you did.... Seems that was how you wanted it, since you mentioned using Elemental Weapon, and now Magic Weapon.

Of course, now that you say you don't want Haste, and you can't cast Elemental weapon.... not sure how much is left of your build concept, nor what you will want to do next.

So.... lets try using Haste 4 times, and then using Magic Weapon for the final 3 encounters. And since it lasts 1 hr, lets be nice and assume it is always pre-buffed, and you never fail concentration. (Of course, we also assumed you never lose concentration with Haste either.) So that brings up the daily damage to a healthy 1125hp.

Does that sound about right?


If you most certainly did factor in sharpshooter, how exactly is he hitting on a 7+? +5 Ability, +6 Prof, +2 Archery -5 Sharpshooter = +8, he's hitting on a 12+.


+13 Attk means 7+ to hit,

It sure looks like you missed a minus 5 there.

So that's a no, then? No build? Nothing at all to contribute? I thought not.

[coredump]

If you most certainly did factor in sharpshooter, how exactly is he hitting on a 7+? +5 Ability, +6 Prof, +2 Archery -5 Sharpshooter = +8, he's hitting on a 12+.

It sure looks like you missed a minus 5 there. No, it means you made an assumption, were told you were wrong, and then decided to double down on the same erroneous assumption.

The Fighter needs a 7+ to hit, just like I said.
Then if he chooses to use SS he will need a 12+ to hit; it isn't always a good idea to use it. As I said, it was factored in.
Or did you expect the damage to be *even lower*?? Because if I factor it in *again* the damage will be much less.

So, have we finally hit upon an error-free version of the Archer King? Is this the bar that needs to be beaten?

[GiantOctopodes]

Nope. The Archer King is the following:

Eldritch Knight 20, lord of vast tracts of lands upon which Purple Worms roam free. He routinely makes the rounds, harvesting venom from them, and as such has a completely unlimited supply of Purple Worm Poison. He wields an Oathbow and wears Bracers of Archery, has an unlimited number of Arrows of Slaying, keyed to all the creatures he will encounter throughout the day. All of those arrows of slaying are coated with Oil of Sharpness before the relevant combats. An Ioun Stone of Mastery circles his head.

Having +7 (Prof) + 5 (ability) + 2 (Archery Fighting Style) +3 (Oil of Sharpness) -5 (Sharpshooter) he ends up with a +12 to hit, which means he hits the DMG recommended AC for creatures with a CR equal to his level (19) on a 7+. Always having Advantage from the Oathbow, that means he hits 91% of the time. When he hits, assuming they have a Con save of +10, he deals 1d8 (Longbow) + 3d6 (Oathbow) + 5 (Dex Mod) + 10 (Sharpshooter) + 3 (Oil of Sharpness) + 2 (Bracers of Archery) + 6d10x.3 (Arrow of slaying no save) + 3d10x.7 (Arrow of Slaying Save) + 12d6x.4 (Purple Worm Poison no save) + 6d6x.6 (Purple Worm Poison Save) damage, or 85.85 expected damage per hit.

He uses Haste before the beginning of every encounter he can, has his Unseen Servant already out and ready to assist, and uses both his Haste action and the Unseen Servant's Use an Action ability on his bonus action to envenom 6 arrows per round, providing more than is consumed and allowing a surplus to be created which is exhausted when using Action Surge. Assuming your 7 encounters of 3 rounds each, he has 6 action surge attacks, 4 actions spent casting haste, and 17 actions spent on attacking, resulting in a meager 92 total attacks. 92*.91*85.85 = 7187 total expected HP damage over that period.

Edit: And just for fun, his expected DPR is 312.5 (85.85*4*.91). Note that I've ignored both crits and crit failures, since it's not worth my time, but with auto advantage those definitely scale up the DPR and expected HP damage, inflating them beyond currently quoted numbers.

[PoeticDwarf]

Yep, however i would still go ranger because of the thing s the hunter archetype gives

So you mean the lv. 11 (and lv. 15) feature. I don't see how a ranger is better at lv. 10 or before.

He is at lv. 5 (extra attack) maybe better, but not on other levels.

[PoeticDwarf]

Nope. The Archer King is the following:

Eldritch Knight 20, lord of vast tracts of lands upon which Purple Worms roam free. He routinely makes the rounds, harvesting venom from them, and as such has a completely unlimited supply of Purple Worm Poison. He wields an Oathbow and wears Bracers of Archery, has an unlimited number of Arrows of Slaying, keyed to all the creatures he will encounter throughout the day. All of those arrows of slaying are coated with Oil of Sharpness before the relevant combats. An Ioun Stone of Mastery circles his head.

Having +7 (Prof) + 5 (ability) + 2 (Archery Fighting Style) +3 (Oil of Sharpness) -5 (Sharpshooter) he ends up with a +12 to hit, which means he hits the DMG recommended AC for creatures with a CR equal to his level (19) on a 7+. Always having Advantage from the Oathbow, that means he hits 91% of the time. When he hits, assuming they have a Con save of +10, he deals 1d8 (Longbow) + 3d6 (Oathbow) + 5 (Dex Mod) + 10 (Sharpshooter) + 3 (Oil of Sharpness) + 2 (Bracers of Archery) + 6d10x.3 (Arrow of slaying no save) + 3d10x.7 (Arrow of Slaying Save) + 12d6x.4 (Purple Worm Poison no save) + 6d6x.6 (Purple Worm Poison Save) damage, or 85.85 expected damage per hit.

He uses Haste before the beginning of every encounter he can, has his Unseen Servant already out and ready to assist, and uses both his Haste action and the Unseen Servant's Use an Action ability on his bonus action to envenom 6 arrows per round, providing more than is consumed and allowing a surplus to be created which is exhausted when using Action Surge. Assuming your 7 encounters of 3 rounds each, he has 6 action surge attacks, 4 actions spent casting haste, and 17 actions spent on attacking, resulting in a meager 92 total attacks. 92*.91*85.85 = 7187 total expected HP damage over that period.

Edit: And just for fun, his expected DPR is 312.5 (85.85*4*.91). Note that I've ignored both crits and crit failures, since it's not worth my time, but with auto advantage those definitely scale up the DPR and expected HP damage, inflating them beyond currently quoted numbers.
This guy has oil of sharpness, arrow of slaying, oathbow, purlple worm poison.
Of course he does this amount om damage.

[zinycor]

So you mean the lv. 11 (and lv. 15) feature. I don't see how a ranger is better at lv. 10 or before.

He is at lv. 5 (extra attack) maybe better, but not on other levels.

I never said he would be better, just that i like them as archers.

[GiantOctopodes]

This guy has oil of sharpness, arrow of slaying, oathbow, purlple worm poison.
Of course he does this amount om damage.

True! Yet he could be a level 20 Wizard shooting a hand crossbow once a round from 100 feet with 10 dex, hitting only on a 19 or 20 with disadvantage (1% of the time) and thus dealing .035 damage per round. He would still be exceeding the damage dealt by Coredump's current proposal.

If you want to provide limitations, such as GP limits, magic item limits (quantity, rarity, or some combination thereof, or even choose which magic items are and are not used by him), or any other limitation please feel free. Until then, you asked for "most damage", and regardless of how improbable it is for the fighter to have access to such resources, it's not impossible, so until and unless such limits are established the question is not "why did I give him so much stuff", but "did I miss anything that could increase his damage further?".

[coredump]

Nope. The Archer King is the following:

Eldritch Knight 20, lord of vast tracts of lands upon which Purple Worms roam free.

Snip a whole bunch of absurd conditions.....
And you still get it wrong. If you are going to use absurd conditions then the Ranger still wins because you just 'assusme' his targets are all crammed closely together. He can easily get several dozens attacks per round with the same oathbow, etc...


This guy has oil of sharpness, arrow of slaying, oathbow, purlple worm poison.
Of course he does this amount om damage.Nah, he knows he is being silly will all of those conditions and magic. He just got stuck because he made some outlandish claims and then made multiple rules errors when trying to prove his point. Apparently its easier to be silly than either admit a mistake, or to correctly support the original claims.


So you mean the lv. 11 (and lv. 15) feature. I don't see how a ranger is better at lv. 10 or before.

He is at lv. 5 (extra attack) maybe better, but not on other levels.
I'm not that familiar with Bards. What about them makes you feel they are good archers before level 10? Granted at 10 they can get Swift Quiver, but even that only helps for 2 encounters a day. On first look, I don't see any way for a Bard to keep up with a Ranger for levels 1-9.
Are you assuming Valor or Lore bard?

[GiantOctopodes]

And you still get it wrong. If you are going to use absurd conditions then the Ranger still wins because you just 'assusme' his targets are all crammed closely together. He can easily get several dozens attacks per round with the same oathbow, etc...


Half true. First, that's been stated as being true from the third post in this thread onwards. Never has it been specified that anyone cares about multiple target damage, nor how many targets are there, or how they are spaced. Thus the assumption it's a single target. Second, a Ranger on his own lacks any means to *keep* targets all together. So even if you get one round of Volley with the maximum possible targets (4 per square, 12 squares = 48 targets) there is nothing which the Ranger has which allows him to keep all of them in that area of effect on subsequent rounds. So whatever you may think of the items I've outfitted the fighter with, his damage is based on him, not on creating a giant barrel and stuffing it with fish to create an arbitrary (and useless) high total HP damage figure. Third, even with all that damage (and it's not really all that- one attack per target, two on one target, no ability to add poison since you lack haste) the ranger does less damage to a specific target than the fighter deals. Even the target he hits twice, that's at most what, 56.45 damage per attack? (1d8+5+10+3+2+3d6+(6d10*.3)+(3d10*.7)=56.45) With a whopping two attacks on one target, at the same 91% hit rate, he's only dealing 102.73 damage per round to the target in question, less than a third of the damage the fighter is dealing to the same target.

For what it's worth, the max total HP damage the Ranger in question does per round is 2517.1 damage per round, or across the same 21 round span, assuming the targets just sit there waiting for it, 52859.2 total HP damage for the day. Unless I've missed something (always possible), that figure likely represents the highest possible HP damage an archer can deal across the scenario posited (7 encounters, 3 rounds each, 2 short rests). However, the single target damage remains a paltry 2157.3 HP damage, more than 5k less than the fighter.

(By the way, your build of "ranger" burns through, with that setup, over 1000 arrows of slaying, and over 200 oils of sharpness, in the course of your adventuring day, for a total of between 6,195,000 and 61,950,000 GP of magic items consumed)

Further edit:
Darn it all, I did miss something, quite a few things. There is no reason the tiny creatures he's targeting have to be on the ground, so targeting the middle of a cloud of tiny creatures fully inhabiting all possible spaces, he's hitting 32 total squares (cubes, at this point, 12 per layer for the middle two layers, 4 on top and on bottom) for 256 total targets. He also lacks advantage on all but one of the targets, so he has a 70% hit rate across all targets other than the one who is his sworn enemy, and fails to deal the extra 3d6 damage to any of them. As such, it's 45.95 damage per attack for 255/257 attacks, at 70% accuracy, plus 2 attacks at 56.45 damage per attack and the 91% accuracy of course. As such, it's (45.95*.7*255 = 8202 total HP damage per round, for 172,243.5 total HP damage to non-main targets throughout the day. Adding back in the 2157.3 he does against the main target, you've got 174,400.8 total HP damage. He consumes 5397 arrows of slaying and 1085 oils of sharpness, for 32,410,000 GP to 324,100,000 GP worth of magic items while doing so. There we go, that should be more on target.

Edit:


I'm not that familiar with Bards. What about them makes you feel they are good archers before level 10? Granted at 10 they can get Swift Quiver, but even that only helps for 2 encounters a day. On first look, I don't see any way for a Bard to keep up with a Ranger for levels 1-9.
Are you assuming Valor or Lore bard?

Swift quiver is inferior to haste, which they can grab at 6 if a college of lore bard, or if a college of valor bard they get their 2nd attack. Discounting for a moment horde breaker (which only applies when you have adjacent targets) both schools have the same two attacks a Ranger has. The archery fighting style is the only advantage the Ranger has over the bard when facing a single target, at all levels. A College of Valor bard gets greater invisibility as a 4th level spell, granting auto advantage, which is far superior to the +2 to attack the archery style represents. Being able to switch between having more attacks than a Ranger if the target is easy to hit (with two attacks + haste) from 10th level on, and having auto advantage if they're hard to hit from 7th level on is certainly advantageous. However, going Ranger 3 / Bard X provides the best of both worlds, granting the Bard Horde Breaker, and the Archery fighting style. Since the Ranger doesn't get swift quiver until 17th level, even delaying haste until 13th level still means they beat the Ranger to the max number of attacks they can reach (4, 2 normal, 1 haste, 1 bonus action -or- 2 normal, 2 bonus action with swift quiver) as well as being able to do it a far greater number of times per day. The Ranger 3 / Bard X also still gets 9th level spells, if you care about that kind of thing.

So in short, certainly the Ranger has the advantage if there are multiple targets bunched up (go figure), but ignoring for a moment that the Bard can just drop a fireball in that scenario and deal far more damage to the targets involved across a wider area, against a single target they only have the +2 attack from Archery style, and gain their 2nd attack 1 level earlier. Important advantages, to be sure, but the Bard Archer is hardly useless for those levels.

[Ashrym]

The ranger also has hunter's mark.

Archery fighting style, hunter's prey, and hunter's mark are all advantages before 10th level plus additional archery themed spells.

Bards aren't superior archers. Haste or swiftquiver part time doesn't really cover it.

[GiantOctopodes]

The ranger also has hunter's mark.

Archery fighting style, hunter's prey, and hunter's mark are all advantages before 10th level plus additional archery themed spells.

Bards aren't superior archers. Haste or swiftquiver part time doesn't really cover it.

Ah, but a Ranger 3 / Bard X would have Archery fighting style, hunter's prey, *and* hunter's mark. He trades volley for high level spell slots to deal with bunched up opponents, and is a bit delayed (mainly hurting him between levels 5 and 9), but otherwise does just fine for himself, and from 9th level onwards I'll take a Ranger 3 / Bard X archer over a Ranger X+3 archer any day, personally. Mainly for the other benefits that come with being a bard, certainly, but when it comes to archery they're no slouch.

[coredump]

Half true. First, that's been stated as being true from the third post in this thread onwards. Never has it been specified that anyone cares about multiple target damage, nor how many targets are there, or how they are spaced. Thus the assumption it's a single target. Haha.... so we should assume that 'multiple target' is bad, but 'unlimited poison expense and access' is hunky dory. Convenient that...

Second, a Ranger on his own lacks any means to *keep* targets all together. Likewise, a fighter has no way of guaranteeing an oathbow, or unlimited gold, or unlimited poison, or whatever else you claim.








Swift quiver is inferior to haste
How is one extra attack better than 2 extra attacks?,

which they can grab at 6 if a college of lore bard, or if a college of valor bard they get their 2nd attack. Discounting for a moment horde breaker (which only applies when you have adjacent targets) both schools have the same two attacks a Ranger has.
Except the Ranger doesn't have to waste an action to get that second attack, and cant lose it from taking damage.

The archery fighting style is the only advantage the Ranger has over the bard when facing a single target, at all levels.
Except for Hunter's Mark, and Collosus slayer, or things like Ensnaring Strike or Lightning Arrow.

A College of Valor bard gets greater invisibility as a 4th level spell, granting auto advantage, which is far superior to the +2 to attack the archery style represents. Sure is, but also takes an action, requires concentration, and is only helpful a limited number of times.



So in short, certainly the Ranger has the advantage if there are multiple targets bunched up (go figure), but ignoring for a moment that the Bard can just drop a fireball in that scenario and deal far more damage to the targets involved across a wider area, against a single target they only have the +2 attack from Archery style, and gain their 2nd attack 1 level earlier. Important advantages, to be sure, but the Bard Archer is hardly useless for those levels.
+2 attack, Hunters Mark, Collosus slayer, 2 attacks without a spell.... you seem to keep forgetting a few advantages.

[GiantOctopodes]

How is one extra attack better than 2 extra attacks?,

+2 AC? Double movement speed? The ability to use your bonus action for things like casting spells (such as lightning arrow)? Not to mention, if using crossbow expert, it's (regular attacks) + 1 (bonus action) + 1 (haste) vs (regular attacks) + 2 (bonus action). It is not an increase in the number of attacks at all, it simply allows the *same* number of attacks while using weapons other than hand crossbows (netting at most +2 damage per attack) while costing you severely in flexibility and additional effects, being 5th level vs 3rd, and on top of that, has a non-magical ammo stipulation, so it can't be used with your envenomed arrows, magical arrows, or whatever else.



Except the Ranger doesn't have to waste an action to get that second attack, and cant lose it from taking damage.

How does a college of valor bard waste an action getting that second attack, or lose it from taking damage?



Except for Hunter's Mark, and Collosus slayer, or things like Ensnaring Strike or Lightning Arrow.
Sure is, but also takes an action, requires concentration, and is only helpful a limited number of times.

You're seriously arguing for Ensnaring strike being a compelling advantage? And in terms of spells like Ensnaring Strike and Lightning Arrow, both " Sure is, but also takes an action, (may) requires concentration, and is only helpful a limited number of times", except in this case it's far more true, since the Ranger has *far* fewer spell slots to use those spells.



+2 attack, Hunters Mark, Collosus slayer, 2 attacks without a spell.... you seem to keep forgetting a few advantages.


So in short, certainly the Ranger has the advantage if there are multiple targets bunched up (go figure), but ignoring for a moment that the Bard can just drop a fireball in that scenario and deal far more damage to the targets involved across a wider area, against a single target they only have the +2 attack from Archery style, and gain their 2nd attack 1 level earlier. Important advantages, to be sure, but the Bard Archer is hardly useless for those levels.

The multiple targets bunched up presumes they chose horde breaker. You cannot have both horde breaker and colossus slayer. This is the quote you were supposedly responding to with that remark. Need I say more?