Wars, wars and even more wars! Players of my campaign, dont read!

[ImSAMazing]

Dear Playgrounders,

I am currently doing a campaign which is based around a big war. I have in mind that the 2 factions fight each other with normal weapons, but 1 faction has access to technical better weapons and better soldiers. This faction has Warforged soldiers, but I think I also should give them better weapons/armor, because they hired almost all the smart people in the world to research for better war items. I already gave them some items, which can be found in the Spoiler below. Any other idea's?



Musket(60'/120', Long Loading(use your bonus action the round after you shoot to reload), 2d10+Dex Piercing)50GP, bullets 3 for 1 GP
Rifle(100'/150', Loading, 2d10+Dex piercing)?GP, bullets 5 for 2 GP
Spy War Armor(Studded leather but gives 13+Dex AC), 60GP
Bullet-proof jacket(-2 damage from bullets), 10 GP
Gas mask(adv. on saving throws against gas, you dont suffer effects which are about your eyesight while wearing), 30GP
Chlorine Gas(20 ft. radius sphere, moves down the lowest point. Lasts for 1 minute, when a person is in it: "DC 15 Constitution saving throw when someone starts it's turn in the sphere. On a fail, you have disadvantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks that relay on your eyesight, so does your attacks until you are out of the cloud. You also take 1d10 acid damage. On a success, you only take half the acid damage and suffer no other effects."
Heavy MG(30' cone, Recharge of 5-6, Dex save(Contested by shooter) or 2d12 damage. On a sucess only half damage and knocked prone) 100 GP, bullets 1GP/shot
Submachine Gun(10' cone, Loading, Dex save(Contested by shooter) or 1d10+Dex damage. On a successful save only half damage) 50GP, bullets 5 SP / shot

[charlesk]

Well, for starters, a rifle should have significantly more range than a musket. That's one its primary benefits.

[ImSAMazing]

Well, for starters, a rifle should have significantly more range than a musket. That's one its primary benefits.

You are true about that. What about the pricing? I priced a musket 50 GP, 1 GP for 3 bullets.

[SharkForce]

i'd say it would be easier to just represent their technological advantage by simply assuming that their production methods are vastly superior, and have their troops generally be better equipped.

an average guard has a chain shirt and carries a spear and a shield. if the advanced country is at a point where manufacturing is so easy they can give their regular guards chain mail or even splint mail and long swords, battle axes, or warhammers, they're going to have a significant advantage (let the soldiers switch between slinging their shields on their back as needed).

the average scout wears leather armour, a short sword, and a long bow. if your advanced country's scouts wear breastplates , carry a shield and a rapier, and keep the long bow, again, significant advantage. .

knights could be more likely to be mounted (advances in animal husbandry increasing the number of warhorses available) and use a shield + lance, and their mount could be barded. you could even extend that somewhat to the scouts, and give them light warhorses (probably same as regular warhorse, but maybe not as many hit dice).

another possible area to advance without needing to houserule in firearms that can shoot ~250 yards accurately (that's about where rifled muskets were good to; you could theoretically shoot 800 yards or more, but not usefully), would be in chemistry; the more advanced side might be able to use smoke bombs to cover their advance or retreat, might provide some minor poison to their scouts, might have healers (as in, people with the healer feat) with healing kits travelling with the army, and so forth.

piercing for bullets is pretty much right. technically, they're not exactly pointed, but they're moving so fast that they'll have more in common with piercing weapons than bludgeoning weapons.

[The Great Wyrm]

Muskets don't misfire 50% of the time.

To get a similar effect, you could make loading take twice as long.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Steampunk gnomes vs orcs or hobgobs

Steam powered catapult, airship, landship (tank?) manned by tieflings who can handle the heat of a steam powered tank.
http://www.projectrho.com/steamogre.jpg
Look, folks, longbows did more damage than first or second generation gunpowder weapons. A more significant technological advancement is better/cheaper steel.

How about using chlorine gas? Dropped by airships. On Orc villages/camps. Gnome war crimes, anyone?

War is about resources. One side must have a quicker victory than the other, and both sides think they can win (unless one side has an insane leader, or didn't think it would come to war). In this scenario, the orcs misjudge the tech and expected a quick victory, the gnomes can't keep up w. the cost of the tech and cant keep an army in the field vs the orcs nor win a war of attrition. Now the roles are reversed.

Stalemate it and you have WWI.

[Flashy]

How high magic is the setting? They have warforged, might they also be fielding modified humanoids/animals? Officers with warforged arms? Perhaps the high command staff are issued heat rays? Some kind of warforged cavalry?

[ImSAMazing]

How high magic is the setting? They have warforged, might they also be fielding modified humanoids/animals? Officers with warforged arms? Perhaps the high command staff are issued heat rays? Some kind of warforged cavalry?

The magic level is pretyy high.

[ImSAMazing]

Muskets don't misfire 50% of the time.

To get a similar effect, you could make loading take twice as long.

Allright, I am thinking about this: "First round: You shoot, second round: use your bonus action to reload, 3rd round: you shoot again, 4rd round: use your bonus action to reload, etc"

[ImSAMazing]

Steampunk gnomes vs orcs or hobgobs

Steam powered catapult, airship, landship (tank?) manned by tieflings who can handle the heat of a steam powered tank.
http://www.projectrho.com/steamogre.jpg
Look, folks, longbows did more damage than first or second generation gunpowder weapons. A more significant technological advancement is better/cheaper steel.

How about using chlorine gas? Dropped by airships. On Orc villages/camps. Gnome war crimes, anyone?

War is about resources. One side must have a quicker victory than the other, and both sides think they can win (unless one side has an insane leader, or didn't think it would come to war). In this scenario, the orcs misjudge the tech and expected a quick victory, the gnomes can't keep up w. the cost of the tech and cant keep an army in the field vs the orcs nor win a war of attrition. Now the roles are reversed.

Stalemate it and you have WWI.

I am going to do the Steam powered stuff, but not yet. It will take some time you know. I'll wait untill the characters have a level high enough. I know that longbows were better then guns, that's why the damage isn't way higher. Elite soldiers could make 2 shots with a heavy crossbow for 2*1d10+dex, in that way it still refers to that. Chlorine gas is a good idea.

[ImSAMazing]

How should I rule Chlorine gas?

[ruy343]

How should I rule Chlorine gas?

Typically, Chlorine gas will cause the person who inhaled it to experience inflammation of the mucosa of the respiratory system (you could think of it like an asthma attack or a severe allergy to beestings). Essentially, it becomes really hard to breathe (it's probably more difficult to exhale than inhale, but it won't feel that way to the target). A great paper on the subject can be found here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136961/) (look at the acute and high-level stuff, not chronic).

Were I the DM playing with realistic poisons (which I do all the time because I'm a chemistry/toxicology nerd), In this case I would invoke the exhaustion mechanic. For realism, a moderate-high DC Con save would be appropriate. Upon failure, the target suffers one level of exhaustion (see the Player's Handbook or DM Screen for what exhaustion means). For each subsequent save, they accumulate further levels of exhaustion, until level 6, when they die. This would make it impossible to fight in the toxic gas, and would give the desired effect of making the other side run like there's no tomorrow. However, as the respiratory inflammation sets in, their ability checks suffer, their speed is cut, etc. until they drop dead and die.

As DM, I would then modify the exhaustion mechanic in this case to allow players to recover one level of exhaustion per short rest. An extended rest would allow the target to overcome all levels. Lesser restoration should also reduce exhaustion by one level.

But for the love of all things scientific, don't let them wear a rag over their face and expect it to work. The first level of exhaustion grants disadvantage to ability checks as well, which may be related to their eyes watering. In a pinch, you could make that justification too.

The side that's using deadly gases should be looked down upon by the other sides in the conflict, because gassing soldiers is highly unethical, and can have long-term ramifications for the health of the nations involved.

Hope that helped.

[ImSAMazing]

The battle I am seeing is this:

A zappelin powered by a steam engine flies over a bunker with the PCs in it, and an emergency alarm goes off. The PCs(3 each lvl 3) had the time(and I almost made them to go there, not railroading ofcourse :smallbiggrin:) to grab a anti-bullet jacket(-2 damage from bullets), a gas mask and a musket(for stats see first post) and some bullets. A sign is with the stuff which says: "Where this all the time while in this bunker.". The zappelin drops 1 explosive bomb so the hatch of the bunker opens a bit, and then throws a chlorine bomb down. The stats of this bomb are: DC 15 Constitution Saving throw, on a fail you have disadvantage on Perception(Wisdom) checks and attack rolls relaying on your eyesight. You also get 1d10 acid damage, and you are blinded for 1 round. On a success, you get half the acid damage and you aren't blinded or have disadvantage using your eyesight. If you wear a gas mask, you have advantage on this check and you don't suffer from the non-damaging effects.

Then a group of 25 soldiers repel down, each CR 1/2. 20 Soldiers attack the other 20 soldiers in the bunker, the other 5 target the PCs. Will this be an appropriate encounter?

[ImSAMazing]

I need idea's for a better weapon for the PCs, not OP, but strong. Maybe an assault rifle? Can anyone help me making the stats for it.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I need idea's for a better weapon for the PCs, not OP, but strong. Maybe an assault rifle? Can anyone help me making the stats for it.

Stun/Flash grenades, 15' radius, detonate at start of next turn before anyone's turn (chance to run/dive/pick n throw?) 1d4 thunder and Stunned. Save DC? vs CON else Stunned TWO turns.

Denies enemy a turn or two, that's very strong.

Semiauto Shotgun/Trench Broom. Doing old broadsword damage 2d4 beyond 10', 2d6 within, no disadvantage for 5', or any range for that matter. Pump action: second shot bonus action at same target (s). Max range 80'.

Flamethrower, effects of flaming hands but with a cone of 50' with a 15' base.

Barbwire, effects as giant spider's web.

I dunno, you want more?

[ImSAMazing]

Stun/Flash grenades, 15' radius, detonate at start of next turn before anyone's turn (chance to run/dive/pick n throw?) 1d4 thunder and Stunned. Save DC? vs CON else Stunned TWO turns.

Denies enemy a turn or two, that's very strong.

Semiauto Shotgun/Trench Broom. Doing old broadsword damage 2d4 beyond 10', 2d6 within, no disadvantage for 5', or any range for that matter. Pump action: second shot bonus action at same target (s). Max range 80'.

Flamethrower, effects of flaming hands but with a cone of 50' with a 15' base.

Barbwire, effects as giant spider's web.

I dunno, you want more?
First, really thanks for helping me. Adding everything to the list.
Looks cool, maybe a machine gun or something?
And now I am currently using a scout/spy stats for playing the soldiers. Maybe custom stats?

[Kurt Kurageous]

I would invoke the exhaustion mechanic. For realism, a moderate-high DC Con save would be appropriate. Upon failure, the target suffers one level of exhaustion (see the Player's Handbook or DM Screen for what exhaustion means). For each subsequent save, they accumulate further levels of exhaustion, until level 6, when they die. This would make it impossible to fight in the toxic gas, and would give the desired effect of making the other side run like there's no tomorrow. However, as the respiratory inflammation sets in, their ability checks suffer, their speed is cut, etc. until they drop dead and die.

Hearty stamp (or cough?) of approval. The desired effect you cite is exactly the one I wanted. Bonus, the exhaustion is probably not used enough.

Ruy, you ought to write some more of this. Mustard, Chlorine, Phosgene, etc. Nerve would be awesome, but very problematic. But what do you think an early industry/chemistry society could produce/weaponize/store using wood, ceramics, bronze, brass, steel, or iron. I'm not proficient. IMHO you'd might want to include costs. A lot of lab hands would die making the stuff, and more than a few bringing it to the battlefield.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Maybe a machine gun or something?
And now I am currently using a scout/spy stats for playing the soldiers. Maybe custom stats?

Keep using these default stats unless you want important NPCs. The Guard is good enough for a rank and file conscript. Nobles could stand in for line officers with CHA (persuade) based on rank, not stats up to Captain (+2 Ensign, +4 Lieutenant, +6 Captain). Armor 'em up with assumed proficiencies. Ensign 1:10, Lieutenant 1:30, Captain 1:100. Veterans would be OP.

A WWI MG is best used to pin down large groups, break up charges, etc., not kill individuals. It is essentially a terror weapon with an area of effect. Crew of two, disadvantaged on attack roll if only one.

Area mode. All targets in 500' x 50' cone or 20'x50' rectangle. Gunner's roll contests all in target area DX (acrobatics, maybe). Gun jams on a 1, takes two turns to clear stoppage. Stationary targets are disadvantaged. All that fail take 2d12. Roll damage once to speed thing up. All in area of effect go prone if smaller than Huge and are aware/value their lives. Zombies/skeletons/incorporeal undead are probably immune. Rule how you want for raging/berzerkers. If already prone, save is advantaged. Prone targets take half damage or save for no damage.

Single target. Use standard rules for ranged attack and up the damage to 4d12. Anyone in line behind target is subject to area effects.

I imagine some kind of check to see who stays prone next turn unless rallied (persuaded) by an officer. Say, DC5 CON/CHA(intimidation) + 5 for everyone they saw get hit by the same burst? Rally is a persuasion check at voice range or visual range, perhaps advantaged if no one is hit (yet) that turn.

You will want to consider only letting the MG fire every other round (1/2) on average. It can fire one over average only if it passes a check for malfunction/overheat. The gun barrel fails on a 1,4,8,16 for firing 2,3,4,or 5 in a row respectively. Six rounds is an automatic fail. Every turn the gun doesn't fire reduces the fail roll one column to the left.

Waddya think, gang?

[ImSAMazing]

Allright, thanks for the help! I have another question, I currently have a flying zappelin as a bombdropper, but I would also like a fast assault plane(like a dive-bomber of Germany, like a Stuka).

[ruy343]

Allright, thanks for the help! I have another question, I currently have a flying zappelin as a bombdropper, but I would also like a fast assault plane(like a dive-bomber of Germany, like a Stuka).

A fast, air-based, non-propeller-driven aircraft used for divebombing? You ask for difficult things...

You can feel free to use your creativity; what we tell you won't necessarily help you much. However, perhaps one side has discovered some kind of mineral that can act as a sold-based propellant. Some NASA rockets back in the day used solid-fuel boosters to take astronauts to space. hard to shut off though.. Liquids can also be used.

Essentially, I'm advocating a rocket plane. Except, load it onto one of your zeppelins to have it make straight dive bombs.

However, you can just make up a spell that accomplishes the task as well. Maybe allow a level 4 fly spell to double or triple the fly speed that's given to the target.

Or you could do Ewok hanggliders..

[Mr.Moron]

I'd suggest renaming the gas weapon. Chlorine is too specific to the real world. Unlike a sword strike where a poor damage result can be abstracted being a glancing blow, or having poor timing etc.., two guys standing next to each other getting gassed are pretty much always going to feel the same effects. Effects that you have basically no chance to resist and are much worse than some trivial damage and possible penalties to perception checks. It stretches credibility, at least for me. "Green Croaker Extract", "Alchemical Chocking Gas" or "Activated Dragon Salts" are much easier to buy with the mechanics attached to the entry.


If you're looking to draw out the differences between Rifles/Muskets, muskets are pretty inaccurate. They could also always be fired with disadvantage for example, or only get 1/2 proficiency bonus.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I would also like a fast assault plane(like a dive-bomber of Germany, like a Stuka).

May I ask why you want a JU 87 when you have already have access to things scarier and potentially more effective/accurate, such as flying monsters that screamed as they dived perhaps ridden by magic wand users that blasted the ground with AE spell?