Weakest characters you have seen from non-beginners?

[Dr TPK]

It's a very, very tough call, but I'd say that a certain (elven?) cleric/sorcerer who wanted to become a mystic theurge might win this one. It was about 7th-level character, more or less, and mostly throwing around magic missiles. He did heal his companions a bit, so that was ok, but otherwise I was stunned how useless these mystic theurges can be, especially before they reach the first level of the PrC. In my humble opinion, mystic theurge could be the greatest trap ever invented.

[Karl Aegis]

A warrior who owned a set of glamoured armor. They spent most of their time disguised as an ovine.

[nedz]

There are various, well known, early entry tricks for MT — but yes, without those, MT is weaker than a single class caster.

That said casters have a high ceiling and a low floor in terms of power. I suspect that it would have been possible to play an MT, without early entry, more strongly than the Magic Missile and Cure Light Wounds caster you saw.

I have seen Wizard played poorly — preferred spells: Magic Missile and Fireball, even at mid-levels.

[ComaVision]

I haven't seen many bad builds by non-beginners but I have seen a lot of really good characters played very poorly by non-beginners.

[marphod]

Define Weakest.

Combat abilities, RP opportunities, ability to not die at the drop of a hat?

One campaign I'm in, another PC is playing an Old Human Monk 1/Cleric 1. Not the height of combat effectiveness, and given the first class level was Monk, didn't start out that well either. On the other hand, the character is in a High RP, low combat game, so it isn't a big deal.

I've been in many a game where the character is a weak set of stereotypical characteristics pasted-on to a set of numbers.

I had a whole lot of fun playing a frequently-drunk Pathfinder Fighter with 7 Con a few years ago. he had really-bad self-preservation instincts and was pretty much a glass tiger -- if he got hit for any significant damage, he was pretty much toast. 20 Dex, 18 Str, 16 Int, 14 Cha, and 8 Wis (I had ridiculous dice rolls for stats and was going for fun, over power). If he won initiative and could avoid getting hit, he was devastating.


(OOC, the DM's dice luck was idiotically bad and I did know this beforehand. The game was for a modified Castle Ravenloft module and ran 20-ish session. My character got hit maybe once a session, at least until our Paladin was turned).


In my experience the 'weakest' characters are those of players who are only grudgingly present. They're not invested in the game, and their character's utility goes out the window.

[Spore]

TWFing ranger with small cat companion (whom she didnt stat out or fight with until 2 YEARS into the campaign). Fights were usually over when she was in position to attack. Her strengths (skill monkey, fast movement and TWFing) are either obsolete because of spells (just scry on your BBEG instead of trying to get his footsteps in dirt that has been rained on heavily), annihilate each other by default (TWFing and movement) or risk her life (Dex build with Con 10 as second melee character).

Also we all said we'd make stronger characters (due to a lack of magical items) and thusly she is in a party with a Str Magus (unholy burst damage), an Ubercharger (formerly Bear Shaman Druid), an Fighter/Wizard/Arcane Archer who deals much damage each round from any position available and an Evangelist Cleric who buffs our attack and damage numbers to ludicrous numbers.

She pales in comparison to printed encounters, to the group and to the setting. Good thing she roleplays decently and gets the d10 from rangers (as well as permanent spell slots of Breath of Life and Hero's Sacrifice in order to protect her).

[KoDT69]

I once DM'd a game in which the Monk player got so sick of being useless that he made a jump check to dive into a red dragon's open mouth as it breathed fire...

In case you were wondering, everyone at the table agreed that he was useless. :smallwink:

[Marlowe]

Fighter 2/Bard 1 with:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (heavy repeating crossbow)
Rapid Reload (heavy repeating crossbow)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Far Shot

And not enough ranks in any one Perform skill to use any Bardic abilities.

Dude had been playing for almost a quarter of a century.

The icing was him describing this character as a "front-line fighter".

[HungryJack619]

There are always the obvious ones. I saw a sorcerer that only picked the fire versions of any of his combat spells. Which is fun until he's fighting a demon or devil.

I saw a gnome ranger that intended to be the tank, except he did it by giving himself low AC and 20 Constitution, but he also did almost zero damage because his strength was in the toilet.

The ever classic tale where you start a level 3-ish campaign and you have the one character who is utterly useless and all you hear from the player is "just wait until I prestige at level 9," except he never lives until level 9.

I've seen a Half-Orc Bard...

[Telok]

Uttercold assault necromancer.
Player > Build > Class.

The first serious fight we engaged in with him he sent his max HD zombie dragon down a 5x5 hallway with orders to kill everything and then cast Invisibility. Five rounds later his dragon was destroyed and he had finished his buff routine. He started to melee with maximized Combust spells. He killed a mook, hurt an enemy Crusader, and died. His death healed the Crusader.

[paranoidbox]

Straight paladin. Fought with sword and shield, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword (used one-handed), Power Attack, Divine Might, no Battle Blessing.

[Hrugner]

Every once in awhile one of our regular players decides it would be fun to really pump up the AC and or saves at the cost of everything else on a martial character. These characters always end up being fun to role play, as you're stupid invincible and don't have to worry about upsetting the wrong person, but they fail at progressing the story or ending combats.

I fear the day we all show up with the defense boosted martial.

[arixe]

I had a sprite arcane archer that got one shot by a shadow i spent weeks making him and the dm didnt tell me there were goint to be str sapping monsters so i died in the first room in 10 min

[Spore]

I had a sprite arcane archer that got one shot by a shadow i spent weeks making him and the dm didnt tell me there were goint to be str sapping monsters so i died in the first room in 10 min

That's no terrible character just bad luck.


There are always the obvious ones. I saw a sorcerer that only picked the fire versions of any of his combat spells. Which is fun until he's fighting a demon or devil.

That reminds me of our sorcerer. The DM told us that the campaign would be undead focussed. So we should be decent at killing them. It won't be exclusively Undead but they will appear. He played a Con 8 Half-Fey Fey Bloodline Sorcerer (PF). Focussed on mind-affecting spells. We BEGGED him to at least get some buff or damage spells. He eventually took Magic Missile which filled his turns.

Another example of a greatly played character that was oh so useless in fights (it depressed him to the point where he left the game).

[Honest Tiefling]

There are always the obvious ones. I saw a sorcerer that only picked the fire versions of any of his combat spells. Which is fun until he's fighting a demon or devil.

Do I know you? Because this was one of my first characters. I was also trying to qualify for Dragon Discple because I thought that being half-dragon was cool. I think the DM offered half-casting progression, but still.

[LoyalPaladin]

The weakest character I've ever seen was a fighter whose goal was to combat magic, but he really just ended up doing nothing for an entire campaign. Good times...

[ComaVision]

I once DM'd a game in which the Monk player got so sick of being useless that he made a jump check to dive into a red dragon's open mouth as it breathed fire...

In case you were wondering, everyone at the table agreed that he was useless. :smallwink:

lol I too have played with a suicidal monk but he was a new player. We started at level 1 and he didn't understand why I warned against the class. By level 7, he was deliberately going prone at the enemies feet and asking for the DM to kill him (which was actually his second death but he accepted a reincarnation after the first death).

[SimonMoon6]

The only times I've seen notably weak characters from non-beginners have been the times when I'm trying not to out-shine everyone, so I make a weaker character than I might otherwise. For example, one time I tried making a cleric/rogue (not a typical multi-class and for good reasons) who was able to qualify for an obscure prestige class that didn't increase spellcasting but did give SLAs which would *almost* make up for it (but not really). Another time I made a 3.0 psion.

In both cases, the DM was one of those jerks who is determined to make sure that any ability you have doesn't work. A psion who focuses on mind-affecting stuff? Okay, no creature you ever encounter will be vulnerable to those. A rogue whose only use is UMD and SLAs that the prestige class lets the DM pick? Okay: no creatures vulnerable to sneak attack, no magic items (and way below WBL), and I'll pick the crappiest SLAs that I'm allowed to pick.

So, I retired that cleric/rogue and made a single-classed Cleric archer (3.0 version) who didn't rely on the wealth we weren't getting. He even had Profession (beggar). But he was a *strong* character.

I'm currently in a Pathfinder game, joining a group of people who've been playing together for a while, so I didn't want to show up with anything too impressive (I didn't want to overshadow anyone), so I made a monk (tetori archetype that focuses on grappling). I got to grapple some ghosts in the first encounter and then died in the second encounter.

[Zirconia]

When D&D 3.0 very first came out, we had someone try a Monk. To be fair, when the game had just come out, it wasn't as obvious that Monks were bad, and class choices were pretty constrained (PHB only, obviously). It was rolled hit points, and he had a total of 8 hit points at 5th level. He bravely sacrificed himself in a delaying action to get the rest of us away from an encounter. . .

Same game, a different guy had a Rogue/Sorcerer with Mage Armor and Magic Missile. This guy didn't normally play thief or mage type characters, he was a born Paladin, so his idea to RP the Rogue was to steal everything. During fights, even. So I think by 5th level he had done a grand total of maybe 20 points of damage to all foes combined in his entire career.

[Jormengand]

Ignoring the fighter with all 3s for stats and nothing but toughness for feats, because that was deliberate...

Well, let's say that I once played a Disciple of the Word. I never recovered.

[ComaVision]

Well, let's say that I once played a Disciple of the Word. I never recovered.

How'd that go? I've never been in a game with anyone brave enough to try Truenaming.

[Jormengand]

How'd that go? I've never been in a game with anyone brave enough to try Truenaming.

Oh, truenaming is fine. The Disciple of the Word is... a mess. It's like the Mystic Theurge only with truenamer and monk, and it doesn't actually advance either of their class features properly.

[Spore]

When D&D 3.0 very first came out, we had someone try a Monk. To be fair, when the game had just come out, it wasn't as obvious that Monks were bad, and class choices were pretty constrained (PHB only, obviously).

You trigger flashbacks. 3.0 LA +1 Tiefling Monk. Goodness gratious! I was barely surviving a very short wizard's tower. I was together with a rogue (who didn't check for traps so I had to be lucky enough to not go up in flames from a fireball trap) and a wizard who funnily enough had not taken Spellcraft OR Knowledge (Arcana).

I can still see his alter ego stumbling about in a wizard tower. "What is this spell book you speak of?" "I pretty much just wave my hands and say the magic words and fire appears."

[Snowbluff]

Oh, truenaming is fine. The Disciple of the Word is... a mess. It's like the Mystic Theurge only with truenamer and monk, and it doesn't actually advance either of their class features properly.

I have a game idea where their are 3 law enforcing agencies:

The Sapphire Hierarchs: Good-Leaning (merciful, honest) Lawfuls
The Ruby Knight Vindicators: Evil-Leaning (ruthless, sneaky) Lawfuls
The Disciples of the Word: Useless Leaning Lawfuls

[Jormengand]

The Disciples of the Word: Useless Leaning Lawfuls

Hey, Word of Mystic Deflection is actually half-decent! Pity it's, like, the only good thing in the whole class... and appears at level 9... yeah...

Well, actually, Word of Speed Unfettered allows you to just walk out of a fireball or whatever.

Word Given Form mastery isn't actually a class feature, but being able to declare that you have total concealment against anyone you like is hilariously powerful, and almost worth the 5 feats and 24 skill ranks it costs you (given that you get IUAS for nothing, need truespeak anyway, and might as well get Spring Attack because it's actually quite useful against tripper builds. So there's that.

I'm half tempted to do this again, properly this time.

[ngilop]

I played with a guy who as a dwarven fighter 6th took toughness as his bonus feat 4 times.... I think he took weapon focus and improved initiative for the other 2 but im not sure.


He did not do a lot, not that he was not trying.. its just literally his dwarf kinda just stood there and sometimes took damage.


My friend in another game played a duskblade, and literally spent the whole campaign casting kel'gore's fire bolt. That's it.. wait.. I think he detected magic once.

[atemu1234]

Monk // Battledancer in a Gestalt game.

[Velaryon]

I'm guilty of this one. I wasn't exactly a beginner: this was my third character. The game was 3.0, and Masters of the Wild had just come out. I wanted to try playing a Bard, but I also wanted to use my new book. I ended up with an Elf Bard/Deepwood Sniper, in a party with a Half-Orc Frenzied Berserker, a crit-based Fighter/Weapon Master wielding a scythe for hilariously large crits, and a Cleric. As you can probably imagine, I accomplished absolutely nothing with my character. The highlight of my character's existence was using a bugle to deafen the Fighter temporarily when he was being especially stupid.

[Lorddenorstrus]

One of my friends who DMs has a rather poor understanding of power tiers or balance in general. I tried to bring a generic Sorcerer to one of his tables once and got "that look" as I was nothing but a god among mortals. I found out his entirely NOT beginner players were basically intentionally making poorly built characters for the sake of being interesting and they struggled in combat when it came up so much my friend prior to my Sorcerer had to make NPCs to do it for them.. I left. I mean the optimal decision for the sorcerer was to ditch the players and continue the adventure with the NPCs. So yeah I had to leave.

[SowZ]

I once had a player run a dual wielding dagger rogue, high dex, low strength. Fine enough, except she spent all her feats on the skill feats and refused to take either weapon finesse or TWF. I basically insisted she take at least one, but she refused.

[lhilas]

Once had a player who came to the session with a full human wizard-sounds quite powerful except her spell selection was horrible - all buffs and no attack spells except for fireball and melf's acid arrow, died in that session by an elven ranger...

[MorgromTheOrc]

This was my first game but I'm including it because an experienced player made the character. It was an orc fighter with 16 strength, 12 con and the rest under 10. My feats were toughness, and weapon focus katana(longsword). I wanted to do duel wielding but the DM was super strict about time and he wouldn't let me start with weapons. He suggested I work with the local blacksmith to have him help me make two katanas. It was supposed to take two days in game and from what I could tell he wanted it to that long in real life as well. I couldn't do anything the whole session because of it and I never went back. PS: my only skills were jump, swim, and 1 rank of blacksmithing.

[Tiri]

In the game I'm currently playing in, one of the players is playing an elf bard with 10 Str, 12 Dex and 10 Con who does nothing but attack with her longsword and longbow. She did actually manage to kill three bandits singlehandedly once while the rest of us were dying, but that was just the bandits being horribly unlucky with attack rolls. Also, she cast Flare once or twice, to no real effect.

[Jormengand]

katana(longsword).

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Longsword" bull that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

[Rhyltran]

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Longsword" bull that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

According to RAW the Katana counts as a Bastard Sword. Which I think is rather fair. A two handed weapon for people who don't have exotic weapon proficiency at 1d10 or a one handed weapon if people have that feat. Plus Bastard sword isn't that bad even if you use it as a two handed weapon. It's not really that far off from the great sword in the damage department. Anyway on topic the weakest character I've seen was a player who mostly makes barbarians trying to play a Sorcerer. His feats didn't have any synergy and it felt like he looked at the spell list and decided to take the worst possible spells.

[Jormengand]

According to RAW the Katana counts as a Bastard Sword.
Masterwork bastard sword, even. Which is what I was referencing.



That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bull that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.


Which I think is rather fair. A two handed weapon for people who don't have exotic weapon proficiency at 1d10 or a one handed weapon if people have that feat. Plus Bastard sword isn't that bad even if you use it as a two handed weapon. It's not really that far off from the great sword in the damage department.

To be fair, even most samurai couldn't wield the damned thing in one hand - two-weapon fighting was something of an art (Called "Niten ichi," or "Two heavens as one") and was considered a master's technique because it was so hard to pull off.

[Rhyltran]

Masterwork bastard sword, even. Which is what I was referencing.






To be fair, even most samurai couldn't wield the damned thing in one hand - two-weapon fighting was something of an art (Called "Niten ichi," or "Two heavens as one") and was considered a master's technique because it was so hard to pull off.

Even then Musashi only used the technique against numerous inferior opponents. In his most famous duels he only used a single sword. Well, bokken mostly.

Also that "thing" you posted had me laughing. Thank you for that. :P

[SowZ]

Masterwork bastard sword, even. Which is what I was referencing.






To be fair, even most samurai couldn't wield the damned thing in one hand - two-weapon fighting was something of an art (Called "Niten ichi," or "Two heavens as one") and was considered a master's technique because it was so hard to pull off.

I hope that quote block was supposed to have irony to it.

(Note to anyone wondering: A basic vertical slash from a Katana would slice through decent plate armor approximately none of the time.)


Even then Musashi only used the technique against numerous inferior opponents. In his most famous duels he only used a single sword. Well, bokken mostly.

Which actually conferred various advantages to him. It is also good evidence that the Katana cannot reliably cut through a bokken in the same way a longsword will rarely cut through a spear.

[Rhyltran]

I hope that quote block was supposed to have irony to it.

(Note to anyone wondering: A basic vertical slash from a Katana would slice through decent plate armor approximately none of the time.)

I think it was designed that way. The "name tag" says "The darker places of the internet." I seriously laughed out loud.

[MrHackenSlasher]

So a veteran role-player that had been out of gaming for a while asked me to make him a powerful cleric build. The game is going to be a very high power game, so I make him a DMM persist clericzilla build. 1st he decided he wanted to be a dwarf so he lost the human bonus feat. so no extra turning. He had a 10 dex(8 after dwarf penalty) and he swapped that into charisma and put the 16 in charisma into dex, because he thought a Dwarf cleric in FP should have more dex. He swapped his 18 Wisdom score into str and put the 14 str score into Wisdom. Instead of buffing up with Divine spells and going into Melee combat, he'd try to use a light repeating crossbow, which did d6 damage IF he hit(which was rare). The only spell he cast was Zero lvl light spells, but he didn't cast it like a normal light spell... he tried to cast it on the enemies eye balls to blind them. We were lvl 6 and he never used any of his 3rd lvl spells. The fighter and the rogue would be in single digit hit points...and he'd use a cure light on them. He was so bad we had to bring in another player to play a healer just to make up for how horrible he was. Then one day he realized how badly he sucked and he accused me of not being to make a good character. I nearly jumped across the table and choked him.

A guy who swore he was an experienced role-player made a Ranger(archer) with no archery feats, a negative handle animal skill, and a wisdom score with either a -1 or a +0 modifier. He wanted a wolf or a bear for an animal companion, but whenever he came across them... he failed his handle animal check and ended up killing them. He finally died while hunting... he surprised a tiger that was sleeping. He shot the tiger with a full attack and hit it with like 3 arrows. The tiger did not go down, and mauled him pretty badly. The horrible ranger THEN tried to use his handle animal on the now very angry tiger, which failed of course, and the tiger ate him.

[atemu1234]

My most experienced player put a Bard 10 / Druid 10 on my table.

[Sagetim]

How'd that go? I've never been in a game with anyone brave enough to try Truenaming.

Funny you should mention that, I'm playing a truenamer. And if you go by just what's in tome of magic, they have a really hard time affecting things with truenaming. Pretty much always. The game I'm running him in is a 'everything from wizards 3.5 is fine', so I've picked up ancestral relic from Book of Exalted Deeds, but haven't had the downtime to really (ab)use it to get more than a +5 to truenaming on a ring (the ancestral relic in question being a signet ring). It's been a real pain trying to find feats that work well, fit with the character, and don't involve a bunch of extra paperwork (like leadership, which would require a lot of paperwork). So far, this truenamer has been mostly focusing on using word of nurturing to act as a between fights healer for the party and has been abusing UMD like a bandit.

Did I mention he's the closest thing the party has to an arcane caster? That's probably relevant. For comparison, this party consists of: a nordic gunslinger (approved homebrew), a pirate (approved homebrew), a human dragon adept (who used to be running a tiefling rogue), a human sword sage/master of nine, a half celestial half elf crusader/favored soul, a dwarf knight, an elf barbarian (who was playing a vow of poverty human monk, but achieved his goal and exited the campaign), an artificier (who only just rerolled after his soulknife died a few weeks ago and hasn't joined the party yet), my truenamer, and a half silver dragon half giant ex monk/pyrokineticist.

I think my truenamer has injured a total of maybe...5 targets with truenaming since his introduction to the campaign, and one of those was a kill because the target had just low enough hp to go into negatives from the damage. The rest of combat with him has been abusing umd with a staff of fire, mostly. And if he can't use that or truenaming he has....I think a normal dagger and 10 strength? Well, that's what his half dragon half giant bodyguard is for.

I think the weakest character I ever made was a drow cleric for a game where the average party level was 6. Before unearthed arcana, or even 3.5, that meant that this cleric was level 3, then 4. Then I got tired of ecl, and so did everyone else, and I got the character in a fight with the party wizard. He blew past her SR like wet tissue and killed her with a single lightning bolt. The character's stuff was looted and passed on to my new character: a human cleric of the same level as the party. I think that was the last session of that campaign though.

[Jormengand]

Funny you should mention that, I'm playing a truenamer. And if you go by just what's in tome of magic, they have a really hard time affecting things with truenaming. Pretty much always. The game I'm running him in is a 'everything from wizards 3.5 is fine',

WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE ITEM FAMILIAR? Seriously, it doubles your rank bonus to truespeak: that will always be swell. If you can't quicken an utterance without having to roll, you're not playing a truenamer.

[Arbane]

Not _quite_ what this thread means, but... I was once in a Pathfinder game where the PCs were:
a Dwarf Monk with 10 strength (spent a lot of time using Bodyguard feat to get hit for other people)
a Elf Magus with 10 strength (dex build, obviously)
my Human Witch with 8 strength
And later we got a Gnome Cleric who I believe had a whopping... 12 strength. We were the wimpiest group of adventurers ever.
(We did have two NPC fighter-types with high strength as hirelings, mind you.)

[Jormengand]

Hey, Word of Mystic Deflection is actually half-decent! Pity it's, like, the only good thing in the whole class... and appears at level 9... yeah...

Well, actually, Word of Speed Unfettered allows you to just walk out of a fireball or whatever.

Word Given Form mastery isn't actually a class feature, but being able to declare that you have total concealment against anyone you like is hilariously powerful, and almost worth the 5 feats and 24 skill ranks it costs you (given that you get IUAS for nothing, need truespeak anyway, and might as well get Spring Attack because it's actually quite useful against tripper builds. So there's that.

I'm half tempted to do this again, properly this time.

Okay, I did this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?426560-Optimising-a-Disciple-of-the-Word-%28Abandon-all-hope-ye-who-enter-here%29) and it didn't end up too badly.

[ekarney]

Had a player who got a bit too caught up in pseudo-roleplaying, made a Nezumi artificer with Intelligence and Charisma as dump stats, made a lot of bad choices campaign wise. His reasoning was "Rat people are pretty gross and probably aren't that smart".

Nearly had a player make a LG Paladin in a town ruled by a Drow Assassin guild, and as a BM I'm against straight-RAW Paladins. He's playing a Dragon Shaman now. (I don't encourage meta gaming, just that when creating characters people should pay attention to the setting.)

Then there was one of my characters, Scrubs Fatlip, a Gloaming Jester, who was scarily bad in every aspect other than charisma (We did 4d6, drop the lowest reroll ones and twos and I only got higher than 9 twice, once was 10, and the other was 18), and even then, he was only good at bluffing, but for some reason, the dice gods took pity on me that day, and I don't mean they let me survive the session, I mean, I passed every bluff check I made with flying colours, I don't think my dice landed on anything lower than 16 that day. Somehow the most mechanically terrible character, seeing as randomly assigned skill points after maxxing bluff. I threaten people with him still to this day, he's one of my tables most infamous, and well loved characters. I might play him again one day.