Continuous Items of Spells of that Expend?

[LastOblivion]

Can a Continuous Item be made from a spell that has a duration until expended? In this case, Ghostly Reload for a great crossbow

Regardless of whether or not I'm a player or a DM I work a lot with item creation, more than most members in my group. But I'm having trouble trying to figure out How expended duration would work with continuous magic items. If was the DM of the campaign I would just whip up a quick homebrew and be done with it, but since I'm a player I'm a bit more ground in what I can do.

So I'm looking to the Giantitp community for some help with a few questions.

1) Are there any rules for Continuous Item construction from spells with an expendable duration?

2) If not, are there currently any continuous magic items mage from spells that expend out there i can just reverse engineer for the creation cost?

3) and if none of that works, is there a better way to get iterative attacks on a great crossbow than over complicated magic items?

[frogglesmash]

If the item is continuous then wouldn't it make sense to just have refresh immediately each time it is expended.

[LastOblivion]

I have thought about resolving the continuous duration of a expending spell like that, since it would work well for ghostly reload. But that resolution doesn't work well with other similar duration spells such as false life, sense weakness or true strike, so I had to pass on it.

[Stegyre]

I have thought about resolving the continuous duration of a expending spell like that, since it would work well for ghostly reload. But that resolution doesn't work well with other similar duration spells such as . . . true strike, so I had to pass on it.
Do not do this.

[Surpriser]

Well, there are no rules for custom item creation anyway - only guidelines.

And they tell us to compare the desired effect with similar existing effects. So what is this desired effect?
Basically, you want to gain iteratives on a crossbow by having it reload automatically after each shot.

In fact, there is a similar item that already does this: The bow. The main difference is that bows are martial weapons, while crossbows are simple weapons.

So a "continous" version of Ghostly Reload should be approximately equivalent to Martial Weapon Proficiency with a bow.
From this it follows that such an item should not be worth more than 5k - otherwise, you are strictly better off using Bracers of Archery.
On the other hand, a continous item of a 1st level spell with a duration of 1hr costs 2k, so this should be a lower bound.
One further approach: Quick Loading is a +1 enchantment with a weaker effect, so a price quite a bit above 2k seems adequate (if you would always take this item over Quick Loading, it is too cheap).

The exact price should be discussed with your DM, but now you have a point to start from. I would go for something in the area of 4k and maybe give it a limit on how many bolts can be stored at once (similar to Quick Loading).

[Curmudgeon]

Well, there are no rules for custom item creation anyway - only guidelines.

And they tell us to compare the desired effect with similar existing effects. So what is this desired effect?
Basically, you want to gain iteratives on a crossbow by having it reload automatically after each shot.

In fact, there is a similar item that already does this: The bow. The main difference is that bows are martial weapons, while crossbows are simple weapons.

So a "continous" version of Ghostly Reload should be approximately equivalent to Martial Weapon Proficiency with a bow.
You've simplified this argument way too much, methinks. Using crossbows instead of bows allows for options unavailable with a bow. For instance, having very low Strength yet not taking a penalty on damage.
A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies on attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow. There's also Crossbow Sniper, which doubles the range in which you can apply precision damage. These options add considerable value.

There's an actual solution to this problem, in two parts; the cost is noticeably higher than your simplified answer. A Self-Loading Crossbow (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 116) automatically pulls back the string for you; the self-loading operation adds +10,000 gp to the crossbow's cost. This doesn't supply a new bolt, but the Quick Loading weapon property (Magic Item Compendium, pages 41-42) does exactly that, for a +1 enhancement cost (at least another 6,000 gp). Together these make for a semi-automatic crossbow.

[frogglesmash]

You've simplified this argument way too much, methinks. Using crossbows instead of bows allows for options unavailable with a bow. For instance, having very low Strength yet not taking a penalty on damage. There's also Crossbow Sniper, which doubles the range in which you can apply precision damage. These options add considerable value.

There's an actual solution to this problem, in two parts; the cost is noticeably higher than your simplified answer. A Self-Loading Crossbow (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 116) automatically pulls back the string for you; the self-loading operation adds +10,000 gp to the crossbow's cost. This doesn't supply a new bolt, but the Quick Loading weapon property (Magic Item Compendium, pages 41-42) does exactly that, for a +1 enhancement cost (at least another 6,000 gp). Together these make for a semi-automatic crossbow.

It also allows for duel wielding crossbows.

[Curmudgeon]

It also allows for duel wielding crossbows.
Indeed it does.

[Surpriser]

You've simplified this argument way too much, methinks. Using crossbows instead of bows allows for options unavailable with a bow. For instance, having very low Strength yet not taking a penalty on damage. There's also Crossbow Sniper, which doubles the range in which you can apply precision damage. These options add considerable value.

It also allows for duel wielding crossbows.
Right, I forgot about these qualities. Especially dual-wielding is a major advantage (either crossbow-crossbow or crossbow-melee weapon/shield).
The availability of Crossbow Sniper should not be that much of an increase in value, as I am sure that other options exist that are for bows only.



There's an actual solution to this problem, in two parts; the cost is noticeably higher than your simplified answer. A Self-Loading Crossbow (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 116) automatically pulls back the string for you; the self-loading operation adds +10,000 gp to the crossbow's cost. This doesn't supply a new bolt, but the Quick Loading weapon property (Magic Item Compendium, pages 41-42) does exactly that, for a +1 enhancement cost (at least another 6,000 gp). Together these make for a semi-automatic crossbow.

This is even better - I did not know about the Self-Loading CB.

[atemu1234]

Do not do this.

I agree. Though I once made a rogue who wielded a +1 Keen Wraithstrike Rapier. That was fun. But even that pushes the limits. True Strike is alright as is, not particularly broken, but on an item is horribly so, if unrestricted.