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View Full Version : Hiding in Plain Sight... + Conga Line???



SangoProduction
2015-07-07, 12:28 AM
I'm asking just because I thought the idea of forming a conga line of invisible allies was absolutely hilarious, and so I looked it up...no doubt to the detriment of my math test I have in the morning.

​Turns out, under the cover rules, you grant cover to a unit, if you are between the unit, and the one you're blocking. Typical stealth, by RAW, requires you to have both cover and not be observed (presumably by those you are hiding from, but that's not stated, as it's assumed to be common sense).

​So, someone has Hide in Plain Sight, or a similar ability that allows them to hide without cover/observation requirements, but they are still there, providing cover. They are still there in that square, regardless of not being seen, if I read this correctly. This is mostly because of the fact that it doesn't say you stop providing cover.
​(And logically, it makes sense, as if you are standing in the way of an arrow, just because you aren't seen doesn't mean it won't hit you, instead of its original target...But you can probably see where I am going with this.)

​Since you have someone who's stealthed, but still providing cover, someone can hide behind them, using that person as the prerequisite cover, so long as they haven't been observed while doing so. Which effectively makes that person invisible from anyone which an invisible person provides cover from --assuming their spot checks don't work--. (As such, a "wall" of HiPS characters would be most effective, to not give people a chance to see past the cover by walking a little to the side, but that's not the point!)

​However, this person is also stealthed, ie. effectively invisible, and still provides cover. So, you stick someone else behind them. They would be getting cover from the people in front of them (regardless of the frontward people actually making their stealth checks), and could likewise make a stealth check. And, then the guys in the middle and front would also be getting cover from those from behind, making it even harder to deny their checks. And this goes on iteratively for as long as you want, or until the DM throws a book at you.

​And then, with your invisible army, march up to the fort, and surprise attack them...from plain sight...lol.

Did I miss something, or misinterpreting it (leave out common sense, this is RAW we are talking about)?

Crake
2015-07-07, 12:38 AM
I think that hiding behind a creature is called soft covered and is stated that you can't actually use that to hide without some specific feats.


Soft Cover

Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-07, 12:38 AM
You missed something.

Soft Cover
Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

icefractal
2015-07-07, 02:16 AM
This brings to mind an amusing idea. Have something really big, like one of the larger giants, with the Nightstalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/nightstalker) feat and HiPS. And perhaps Snatch Arrows.

Then have it stand between the BBEG and the party and hide.
"I charge the necromancer!"
"You bounce off ... something."
"Like a wall of force?"
"... sort of like a wall."
"Well I shoot at it!"
"The ... something ... stops your arrow and throws it back at you."

Hrugner
2015-07-07, 02:58 AM
I think that hiding behind a creature is called soft covered and is stated that you can't actually use that to hide without some specific feats.

What's the feat to hide behind soft cover? I have a mouser/monkey style character in a pathfinder game who would love to be hiding while also in his opponents space.

Crake
2015-07-07, 04:25 AM
What's the feat to hide behind soft cover? I have a mouser/monkey style character in a pathfinder game who would love to be hiding while also in his opponents space.

I think it's for halflings/small creatures and you need to use a larger creature or something. I might be misremembering, but check complete scoundrel, complete adventurer or races of the wild, I'd expect it to be in one of those

Psyren
2015-07-07, 08:22 AM
While you can't have a bunch of allies providing each other cover, in Pathfinder you can just have everybody take Hellcat Stealth to gain HiPS and then conga line.

Or just Widened Invisibility Sphere. Yeah that's probably more sensible :smalltongue:

Abithrios
2015-07-07, 09:21 AM
Aren't there some rules about hiding in a crowd? If so, I feel like you could have a crowd of people, and each person can hide in it one by one until they all vanish.

The Viscount
2015-07-07, 12:21 PM
Well there's the old trick of two Shadowdancers or Assassins hiding in each others shadows. The trick can be extended to any number of such characters.

Shadowdancers of course can hide if they've used their summon shadow ability, since they can hide near any sort of shadow.:smalltongue:

The clever character with shadow necessitated HiPS can also hide in the shadow of their mount, or simply a trained animal they keep nearby. Be sure to equip it with a bead of sunlight so it always has a shadow.

The weakness of this ability is that in darkness or at night you can't hide from creatures that can see in the dark. That's why you need bead of sunlight to cast shadows.

(Un)Inspired
2015-07-07, 12:44 PM
Then have it stand between the BBEG and the party and hide.
"I charge the necromancer!"
"You bounce off ... something."
"Like a wall of force?"
"... sort of like a wall."
"Well I shoot at it!"
"The ... something ... stops your arrow and throws it back at you."

This is good stuff.

Psyren
2015-07-07, 12:52 PM
"The ... something ... stops your arrow and throws it back at you."

Throwing it back is a bad idea since they would take -20 to stealth.

SangoProduction
2015-07-07, 04:20 PM
Noooooo! My hopes and dreams!

atemu1234
2015-07-07, 11:12 PM
Noooooo! My hopes and dreams!

Ah, you'll get another dream. Someday.

IZ42
2015-07-07, 11:30 PM
Noooooo! My hopes and dreams!
There are ways to reduce sniping penalties, don't worry.

With a box
2015-07-08, 12:32 AM
Can a shadowdancer hide in this shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm)?

IZ42
2015-07-08, 12:34 AM
Obviously, the ability just specifies any shadow other than his own, so that shadow is a perfectly applicable target. I would worry about the negative levels, though.

The Viscount
2015-07-08, 04:09 PM
Shadows do not deal negative levels, so safe there. Shadowdancers control the shadows they summon, so they're safe from attack, which is why I mentioned it above.

jiriku
2015-07-08, 04:18 PM
I think the correct thing to do here is to get a group of shadowdancers and high-level rangers to multi-class into bard and then join a flashmob. Then come from out of nowhere on a busy city street and start performing Les Miserables or something, and everyone will be looking around wondering "where is that orchestra I'm hearing?"