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Eddieddi
2015-07-07, 05:10 PM
So a friend of mine has started a Pathfinder game, and has declared pathfinder 'unbreakable' including third party classes/abilities. I want to break his game, Not just make it easy to kill things, but I want to ace every check. be able to ignore the town guard, drop kick any foe he gives us. Sure its mean, but he's declared it unbreakable. that's a challenge I can't ignore. So here are the rules;
Only base Races (No Sulis or Tengu ect)
No Magus, brawler/monks, Rouges (we've already got them)
Nothing hyper complex, I want it to seem as if I'm doing this on the fly so it can't be super complex.

Oh and before anyone just gives me the class tiers, I know them already, I want build guides and ways of ruining things.
So-far the strongest thing I've come up with is a synthesist-summoner who uses DoT and has a Acid dragon alter form with a fearful presence, lots of things running away while melting.
Additional Info;
We start at level 5, We are not allowed to start with magic items and they are really hard to get, Likely max level is 8 or 9, Everything on http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ is usable excluding user unique content (stuff thats not on the main site)

So some help please?

FabulousFizban
2015-07-07, 05:44 PM
quickdraw throwing shield and a blinkback belt. shield should be adamantine to bypass DR. You also need the quickdraw feat. Done.

EDIT: sorry, didn't see the no magic items bit. Now I'll actually have to think about it.

EDIT 2: the witch has that cackling skull spell. Just spend all your time collecting skulls, casting the spell on them, and store them in a ... dammit no magic items. Store them in a big sack. Whenever anyone gives you trouble dump out the sack. They have to make a will save or be panicked. Dump a few dozen animal skulls out of that bag all at once and the enemy will fail at least one and run away.

You could also use the hunter archetype that gets edilon points. Get a t-rex and put all your points into extra heads, maybe grab with bite attack. PROTIP: since your t-rex only has one kind of natural attack, they are all treated as primary attacks, no matter how many bite attacks you have. The damage gets pretty ridiculous pretty quick.

Eddieddi
2015-07-07, 06:34 PM
The issue is that the Edilon evolution table states that you can only take head evolution once. sucks.
but yeah, you see the issue with no magical items? I'm now debating a ranger with lots and lots of rapid shot feats. ALL THE ARROWS as he seems to be ignoring ammunition costs.

Molosse
2015-07-07, 07:26 PM
APG Summoner with the Master Summoner Archetype.

Hand's down one of, if not the, strongest class/archetype combinations in the game.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-07, 11:02 PM
APG Summoner with the Master Summoner Archetype.

Hand's down one of, if not the, strongest class/archetype combinations in the game.

Seconded. Even non-Master summoners break games without even trying.

atemu1234
2015-07-07, 11:37 PM
This is what we call an inexperienced DM. You are simply educating him.

erok0809
2015-07-08, 12:27 AM
I can't help with the actual topic since I don't know much about Pathfinder, but assuming that characters rely on magic items in it as much as in 3.5 to deal with high-level stuff, your DM is making a flawed argument. He's saying that the game is unbreakable, and not letting you play the full game by using a low magic item game. While the system certainly allows for that, that isn't what the game is built around, and so he's already giving himself a pretty good advantage in this "challenge" that he might not know he's making. Evidence for this lies in FabulousFizban's post, which details two different ways to break stuff but require magic items to fully work; that makes your DM wrong already, since the base game allows for magic items as normal and is easily broken in two different ways.

Eddieddi
2015-07-08, 06:30 AM
Yeah, thats why I came to you guys, given Magic items and some time I could break it with ease (punching lots of things as a monk)
Hmm I'll look in to summoner, the issue I think I may come across is that I'll forget I can summon lots of minions. though 1d6+3 of Dire badgers with augmented summoning looks utterly terrifying.
You guys got ideas for a class that isn't stomped by anti-magic feilds? because I suspect the DM will put those in there just to be a buzz kill.

noob
2015-07-08, 07:06 AM
Antimagic fields are never made at high altitude and you can bombard them with giant nets of small iron spiked balls if you have a wizard(does crazy damage and can not be survived by things of size higher than normal with a giant net even dragons looks wimpy if they are below you as they take more than 1000d6(if they are not tiny))
so pure wizard solve all the problems already and is overpowered at level 15 even if you do not optimize.
A barbarian at high level(6-7 and with an unenchanted adamentine sword) dig through all walls like if they were butter and can carry walls in their pocket and use them as shields for protecting allies and getting all their tactical benefits(cover enough sides and no one can surround you and you can fight opponents one per one and protect yourself from fireballs).
As a plus with the walls you carry you can block corridors some time which is helpful in an anti-magic zone(basically carrying an iron wall is the mundane iron wall spell)
Also carry a small iron platform for getting the circumstance bonus against lower opponents.
Basically the strength progression is totally broken(mass you can lift increase exponentially)

Amphetryon
2015-07-08, 07:31 AM
At those levels, a City-Bred Half-Orc (for the whip proficiency) Torture Subdomain Inquisitor can be a pretty boss melee monster, causing most enemies to be severely demoralized when you attack them. Pick Traits that boost Intimidate, max it out, and don't scrimp on CHA.

Eddieddi
2015-07-08, 07:31 AM
The DM isn't doing encumberance rules. he's just doing it "realisticly" so I can't really carry round several huge iron walls. though the flying/bombing mage still works, Is Item as broken as it was in 3.5e? because if it is I can see myself item-ing a house or something.

Elricaltovilla
2015-07-08, 07:39 AM
When your DM says pathfinder is "unbreakable" what does he mean? What does he define as "broken"? Because doing lots of damage isn't broken to me, it's just big numbers. To me breaking the game involves things like teleportation (removes most of the issues with traveling places), summoning spells (especially gate), wish spam, mass summonings, or metamagic abuse.

If you want to do lots of damage I suggest a cavalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier) with a lance and spirited charge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spirited-charge-combat---final), triple damage on a hit is among the highest damage builds out there, even sans magic items. Archery can also get you pretty up there in terms of damage thanks to arrow spam.

Additionally, your DM is creating a pretty fallacious scenario. The game assumes you will have magic items and wealth appropriate for your level (hence why it's called wealth by level) and that magic is a thing. Without magic items or access to proper spells, the game breaks the other way: it becomes impossible for the characters to accomplish anything, instead of it being impossible to stop them from succeeding. Pathfinder is infinitely breakable as written, but when you start slapping on abusive house rules, it becomes impossible to actually judge the system as written.

Half-Wizard
2015-07-08, 08:43 AM
Ability scores are relevant. Are you using point buy, or have you already rolled the scores you have to work with?

Segev
2015-07-08, 09:05 AM
If you want to "prove" it's "breakable" while "seeming to do it on the fly," just build something with a very strong theme that is a Tier 1 (or 2) class.

Straight druid is usually good enough - I don't think PF nerfed them in any particular way - but any full caster should do.

One build I really want to play with at some point uses the Infernal-blooded Sorcerer and uses Diplomacy, charm person, and hypnotism to get people to be Helpful towards you as a general rule. Diplomacy by itself will help you talk your way past most guards, provided you're not already in a hostile situation, and throwing hypnotism on top will grab 2-4 of the low-HD type of guard quickly and make them pay attention to you while the party sneaks by. You can even make them Neutral or Friendly towards the idea of letting you and the party by just with the spell alone, if you don't think Fascinating them is good enough.

Charm person nabs a fair number of creatures in PF, and to help against things which it cannot nab, you should have a charmed minion of the beefier sort. Or three. Charm, Diplomacy, and hypnotism to make them Helpful towards the idea of being your bodyguard should do it.


The Infernal Bloodline sorcerer gets Diplomacy as a class skill and gets a bonus on Enchantment spells. Take Spell Focus: Enchantment, and a race with +2 Charisma (I like Halflings for this), and you can reliably get a character with a DC 19 will save on his charm person spell at level 1. With a higher Cha, you can also win the opposed Cha checks more readily when you want to boss your charmed minions around.


Add in other utility spells to bypass common obstacles, and you should look like you're just playing your "Enchantress" concept (as an example, if you want to go the femme fatale mind-bender route) to the hilt and using your tools - which include minions and impromptu allies - well.

Eddieddi
2015-07-08, 09:15 AM
He means unbreakable in the sense that players (even those who have tried to build something broken) cannot just breeze through encounters and ace checks. as in an caricatures in any campaign will find it challenging so long as the levels are all balanced.

As for points, They are immaterial, We're doing a point buy but at 80 points but where 1 point = 1 stat point, because our DM is strange.

I like the idea of charming everything we come across, but I had a sneak peak at the DM notes non of it is vs people, its all against beasts and already angered kobolds. So maybe something similar but focus down intimidate? look for things that boost my fear aura. just cause everything to run away and never have to actually fight?

Segev
2015-07-08, 09:24 AM
Hypnotism and charm person work on kobolds, even angry ones. Hypnotism does suffer a +2 bonus to their will save if you're already in combat, but you can try to whammy them before weapons are drawn if you've got a good enough Perception in your party. Failing that, charm person will still get 1 per shot. Get one of the ones controlling the animals. Then convince him to lure out a few of his buddies into an ambush (obviously not calling it that) wherein you use your surprise round, before they can turn violent (denying them the +2 to their save), to use hypnotism. Implant an idea of accepting bribes, being hired, or simply hanging out at a party to get them to Indifferent, so your Diplomacy can kick in to push them further up the chain. By the time you're done, you'll have enough of them Helpful to the idea of working with the party that you can make the whole camp listen to you.


That said, if it's a lot of animals, a high-cha Druid could be the way to go after all. Handle Animal and Wild Empathy will be your friends. Speak with animals will also be of great use, combined with Handle Animal, Wild Empathy, and possibly Diplomacy if you have it. Don't forget, if you go this route, that Handle Animal lets you train fighting beasts of your own. So on top of your animal companion, you can have a pack of dogs or a small herd of goats or sheep (which can be surprisingly helpful). Aid Another is a valid combat action you can order them to do, so they start packing around foes you're jabbing with a longspear, giving you +2s to hit or AC.

Hrugner
2015-07-08, 05:02 PM
oracle of the heavens with awesome display and maxed charisma is a good way to go for casually breaking a game where rogues and monks are acceptable character choices.

A synthesist summoner with an inevitable eidolon would be good too, more so since magic items are scarce. flight, some good immunities, you can look like a mecha, 4 attacks, you should be good.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-08, 05:27 PM
A synthesist summoner with an inevitable eidolon would be good too, more so since magic items are scarce. flight, some good immunities, you can look like a mecha, 4 attacks, you should be good.

Synthesist is a direct downgrade from stock Summoner, so it's kind of counterproductive when you're trying to break a game.

Eddieddi
2015-07-08, 05:31 PM
Synthesist is a direct downgrade from stock Summoner, so it's kind of counterproductive when you're trying to break a game.

Did a quick bit of research, If you take a Eidolon form that has arms (like extra arms) you can attack and cast. I can see its advantages and disadvantages. as in your summoner is no longer a target, and that you basicly get a perma-shield for free. but also you lose the extra attacks from having your summoner out.

Any opinions on going ranger? Our DM has just said, and I quote
"feats and skills are interchangeable as 1=1"
so if anyone has some crazy feat based build, like a alchemist who lobs bombs at a stupid high rate or a archer who somehow fires 5 arrows a round I'd love to hear it.

icefractal
2015-07-08, 05:32 PM
It's a downgrade usually; in a game where the players are highly optimized and so are the enemies, it may be more useful than a standard one.

Also, while it may be weaker in absolute terms, it's powerful in a way that's more directly comparable to other characters. Hence the rage it inspires.

TheIronGolem
2015-07-08, 05:37 PM
You guys got ideas for a class that isn't stomped by anti-magic feilds? because I suspect the DM will put those in there just to be a buzz kill.

If he does, then you can consider your point proven, because Antimagic Field Spam is an implicit admission that player magic is overpowering the game.

noob
2015-07-08, 05:58 PM
Do not forget the fact you might give items to your summons by calling them with contract and so have them cast scrolls or wear items giving them bonus to one stat or weapons.

Lorddenorstrus
2015-07-08, 08:54 PM
Honestly.. I'm seeing waay to many listed Houserules for anything done to be a judge for the system being unbreakable. Does this DM even understand the point of making such a statement? He effectively told you the system as is, is not breakable. Then turned around and said except you can't do all these other things cause they are broken.....

Hrugner
2015-07-08, 09:04 PM
Synthesist is a direct downgrade from stock Summoner, so it's kind of counterproductive when you're trying to break a game.

It depends on how you want to break the game. Unlimited flight and immunity to fatigue like effects and subdual damage means most of the world and environment rules are out the window and it removes the need for many skill and stat checks. You don't quite have that broad an immunity from plot by not gaining the immunities of the robot power armor inevitable eidolon. Between 5 hours of ablative barrier giving you an effective DR 5/-, the immunities, a back up plan of potent summoning and unlimited flight, I think there's a good case for this being the biggest burden for designing encounters around.

I know there are more powerful options, but we want the DM to accept that the game can be broken and make it look accidental, so I think this is ideal.

Sagetim
2015-07-08, 09:34 PM
Now, everyone else here seems on board with summoner as the way to go. And while it's true, they can summon armies of minions, what they don't seem to be thinking about is how much of a pain in the ass it would be to summon and control armies of minions in combat. That said, I like the master summoner archetype and will always golf clap anyone wanting to play one.

However, there's a much simpler way to seem like you're breaking things: Play a Warder. Start as part of the Empyreal Guardian organization to have silver crane style and dump Primal Fury. Pick a weapon type, like, say heavy blades. Take Weapon Group Adaptation (Heavy Blades) as one of your first feats. Pick up broken blade maenuvers like steel flurry strike and bronze knuckle, enduring crane strike, etc. Get the Silver Crane Stance. Grats, you are now, at level 5, a man wielding a holy longsword, always protected from evil, and able to strike 3 times as a standard action with a -2 to hit but +3d6 damage per hit. Challenge every demon you face to single combat and murder it in round one. Oh, and if you need ranged attacks, pick up a mighty bow and keep using Silver Crane stance with it, making it strike as a holy weapon as well. Proceed to sword and board your way through all combat, and take good care of your full plate. Shield focus is your friend for an extra point of ac while using a shield. Get Defense Expertise to add your shield ac to your touch AC, and get Missile Shield to deflect one ranged attack er round. Your level five feat can be Advanced study to pick up even more maneuvers, or extra readied maneuver to make use of more of the ones you already have.

You won't need magic items, but you will probably want the heaviest armor you can get and a really sturdy shield. IF worse comes to worse, you can use your shield to perform broken blade maneuvers (shields are close weapons) and Snapping Turtle Stance will help you break faces with your shield.

If you're wondering, this is pretty much my current build in an ongoing pathfinder game. Just...punching evil with swords and bullying things with high strength. In the most recent game, at level 6, I killed an oncoming demon with a pair of shots from a mighty +5 bow. That is, it's not magical, just allows a +5 str mod to be used. The first hit was a crit for 40 damage. The second hit killed it. The holy damage helped (as did striking as a good weapon). When the enemies got into melee, my warder killed an uninjured cyclops in one series of blows from steel flurry strike, because each hit was doing 1d8+7 (the sword was +2, +5 str) +3d6 +2d6 holy damage. Or 1d8+7+5d6. And that's on a maneuver that he can pick back up and reuse every other round if necessary.

edit: When it comes to antimagic and dead magic zones, most of the abilities of the warder ignore such trivial things. They are extroidinary abilities, born of manly muscle magic. Some of the silver crane maneuvers and stances are supernatural abilities, but are marked as such in their descriptions. Warder is from Path of War, and is on the pfsrd. While this means that you may not be able to unlimited tank by healing yourself with silver crane strike while in anti magic fields, at that point the gm has to admit that the system is breakable if he's resorting to that much antimagic fields.

edit 2: alternate build includes using feats from 5, 7 and 9 to pick up mounted combat, ride by attack, and spirited charge. You would probably need to use weapon group adaptation 'polearms' but there's probably some way to cheese out maneuvers during the charge and also pick up the multiplier for lance damage on a charge. You know, just to prove that magic items have no bearing on your damage dealing prowess.

marphod
2015-07-09, 01:16 AM
... 80 points at one for one?

That's 18, 18, 16, 12, 10, 8. For 20,20,16,12,10,6. That's broken already.

---

I, personally, would go the other way. A game that can't be broken means you should not be able to make a character who is ineffective in every possible way.

Nonsensical feat selection. Bizarre multiclassing. As many weird edge rules as possible.

---

Although, s/he's allowing 3rd party things?


Rogue Genius Games Godling character classes.
Mythic Hero rules.
Unchained classes
Cybertechnology and technological Equipment. (not magic)
Play with the various 3rd party races to find some of the more broken ones.
Polymorph and other shapechanging tricks.
Summoning creature abuse.
Lots of spells that give bonuses to skill checks, improved movement abilities, teleport, improved senses, and resistances.
Spells that make (effectively) magic items.
Summon Spells.
Divination spells
Leadership
Metamagic abuse
Alchemy and Special Materials
Anything that gives you re-rolls or messes with time.


Your goal isn't to do damage -- ever. Crank your casting attribute through the roof. Save or suck spells. Detect Foo spells, Find foo spells, Locate foo spells. Summon minions and get them to do things. Make sure you can cast divinations to know everything about everything ahead of time. Get a Cohort who does the same thing, but if you've gone Arcane, get them to go Divine (or vice versa).

In other words, the same things that breaks every high fantasy RPG.

Eddieddi
2015-07-09, 06:39 AM
... 80 points at one for one?

That's 18, 18, 16, 12, 10, 8. For 20,20,16,12,10,6. That's broken already.

No as in we have 80 points.
and if we want
lets say 10 str points (not bonus points) that will take 10 points off our total. your total there is at 82,

and yes, the DM is making up stupid house rules, Its mostly because its his second pathfinder game and 2 of the other players are total noobs and are confusing him.

Loving the ideas guys. Especially the summoner **** alongside the warden. I'm trying to avoid pure caster because of the DM just going "nope magic dosn't work here." or making someone with high magic resist. 1 more build and hopefully we should be good to go (1 main, 1 back up, 1 emergency.) if the Dm goes and cries in a corner I'll let you guys know!

noob
2015-07-09, 08:53 AM
Wizard will craft tons of stuff who are useful for breaking everything in the anti-magic zone(like reducing many steel walls and throwing them into the zone dealing 20d6 per wall to people in it)
and wizard can abuse simulacrum for making unlimited power armies and if you add up undead wizard can destroy anything everywhere.(wizard can also be replaced by arcanist who is a sorcerer who can change list every day choosing spells in his spellbook)
If you get 3-4 magic items who can be used X times per day you can give them to your summons and use them all at the same time in one turn.
Summoner works great but not as great as wizard starting to bombard everything with his flying team and able to craft copies of your summoner(having both is great)
I you really dislike armies(and want to still work in anti-magic zones) breaking the game is a lot harder but it can be done with some crazy contact class optimization or technologist(machine-smith archetype working in anti-magic zones)
Also Arcanamechanist pwns with wish abuse at lvl 20.
Emulate a Class Feature use magic device option is really cool with staff you get a caster level equal to your check - 20 and so for example if you start stacking stuff increasing your umd you rapidly get a caster level equal to two times your level.

Sacrieur
2015-07-09, 09:02 AM
Sir, all you need is the CRB to break the game.

Segev
2015-07-09, 09:04 AM
Yes. Shrink item is your friend for dealing with AMFs. Make sure you're able to be aware of them before you stumble in if you wish to abuse it by simply carrying around a lot of shrunken heavy things that you throw at your AMF-protected enemies to watch them get crushed. If, on the other hand, you're only interested in protecting yourself from them, abuse the Tinfoil Hat Trick.

The Tinfoil Hat Trick works as follows:

Create a cone out of some sort of metal - lead is popular due to how many emanations and detections it blocks with an inch or less of thickness - that you can stand comfortably inside. Decorate with stars and moons to taste. Use shrink item to reduce it to a cloth consistency and the size of a pointy wizard's hat. When you find yourself inside an AMF, the shrink item effect is suppressed and your hat immediately becomes a large metal cone completely surrounding you. This blocks the AMF's emanation (as well as pretty much anything else your foe might want to target you with in the brief period you're going to stay there). Use teleportation magic of some sort to exit and proceed to punish whoever dared attack you in such an undignified manner. If you're not sure that is possible, simply escape, and come back later when you're better prepared.

Eddieddi
2015-07-09, 09:09 AM
Yes. Shrink item is your friend for dealing with AMFs. Make sure you're able to be aware of them before you stumble in if you wish to abuse it by simply carrying around a lot of shrunken heavy things that you throw at your AMF-protected enemies to watch them get crushed. If, on the other hand, you're only interested in protecting yourself from them, abuse the Tinfoil Hat Trick.

The Tinfoil Hat Trick works as follows:

Create a cone out of some sort of metal - lead is popular due to how many emanations and detections it blocks with an inch or less of thickness - that you can stand comfortably inside. Decorate with stars and moons to taste. Use shrink item to reduce it to a cloth consistency and the size of a pointy wizard's hat. When you find yourself inside an AMF, the shrink item effect is suppressed and your hat immediately becomes a large metal cone completely surrounding you. This blocks the AMF's emanation (as well as pretty much anything else your foe might want to target you with in the brief period you're going to stay there). Use teleportation magic of some sort to exit and proceed to punish whoever dared attack you in such an undignified manner. If you're not sure that is possible, simply escape, and come back later when you're better prepared.

This is possibly the most amazingly amusing idea I've seen. I think I'm going to make a full caster who dosn't have any actual direct damage spells, but only uses battle field control spells and has our 'tinfoil hat' because that'll be frigging awesome.

Segev
2015-07-09, 09:16 AM
I'm glad you like it, but I cannot claim credit for it. It's a fun and beautiful bit of optimization that I learned on this board. I do not know the originator's screenname nor even whether it was original to this board.

But have fun with it!

noob
2015-07-09, 09:25 AM
Not taking damage spells is going to make him weaker than someone taking them.
Most of the battlefield control spells cast while fighting are really poor(Except when opponents are low level and do not have freedom of movement nor are strong but then you cast web one time and kill them after with aoe spells and not using aoe spells are going to make your mage less broken)
When some BBE is killing people abuse phantasmal revenge on 8 corpses in a row and know he is dead(direct damage spell you must always take for this reason the gm will need to think to it each time).
Use genesis once you have it for faster time flow making you sleep and prepare yourself in half the time.
Genesis+skinsend will allow you to never ever take any risk and run in all opponents casting wail of the banshee alone and get to kill progressively all opponents with just stupid suicide attacks
If you have the machinesmith abuse the Mechanical Helper 3 prototype it is just crazily awesome for making traps and so on and if you have unchained and take Signature Skill they can craft magic items.
You create a definite mechanical helper per hour(and in the end cast if 4 times a day) and if you start making them create items casting the spell you can make them cast the spell too making an exponential production of helpers

marphod
2015-07-09, 03:00 PM
... 80 points at one for one?

That's 18, 18, 16, 12, 10, 8. For 20,20,16,12,10,6. That's broken already.

No as in we have 80 points.
and if we want
lets say 10 str points (not bonus points) that will take 10 points off our total. your total there is at 82,



Er, oops. Math is hard. :smallbiggrin:

noob
2015-07-09, 04:02 PM
(40 int
10 con
3 str
10 sag
3 cha
14 dex
Now you one shot half of the people with your save or die and you have tons of spells(but you die from one draining attack).) all of this is a joke on the fact you did not said the GM forbid stats above 30 or 18 or 20
Then be an halfling and use the favored class bonus for having a crazily good familiar(at level above 17 or something of this kind) and if the gm use epic progression rules then your familiar will have a level 8 or less spell as a spell like ability and then use the duplicate familiar ability many times obtaining an army of familiars able to cast level 8 or spells(you exchange level 5 spells for auto casting level 8 spells).
I you really want you can give your familiar the ability duplicate familiar then you duplicate him (with your spell) three times and you make those duplicates duplicate the original one who did not used his spell and so they create new duplicate with the spell and you restart and you create 3 familiars per round for all the day then the next day the chain kept working and you create more duplicates of the original one and it create more familiars in your chain and you keep doing that until having the craziest production of familiars per round ever done then you create new familiar creation areas and after some time you create the crazy giant familiar empire(gets even worse if you make them craft magical items after some time you might get exponential familiar creation instead of linear one(happens too if you have two times the epic feat familiar spell)).
Then you will never be forgotten because of your familiar empire creation.(especially if it is lantern archons(especially if the clause that archon who die fuse with their origin plan is true with familiar copies))
Also no rules forbid a familiar from taking class levels and no rule forbid to take an animal who have acquired class levels in an non magical way so you might have technologist familiar that then abuse the helper drones and you duplicate your technologist for more craft power or you might take a tinker familiar for unlimited allied alphas with the succession power and gigantic armies of automaton(who will just be so crazy your gm head will explode at once as well as all the head of each being in the multiverse because the numbers are way too much huge) or wizard familiars who take multiple time duplicate familiar(and also have familiars).

TLDR: Duplicate familiar is overpowered and create infinite loops of awesomeness once you have familiar with the familiar spell feat or familiars with class levels.

Sagetim
2015-07-09, 10:23 PM
Yes. Shrink item is your friend for dealing with AMFs. Make sure you're able to be aware of them before you stumble in if you wish to abuse it by simply carrying around a lot of shrunken heavy things that you throw at your AMF-protected enemies to watch them get crushed. If, on the other hand, you're only interested in protecting yourself from them, abuse the Tinfoil Hat Trick.

The Tinfoil Hat Trick works as follows:

Create a cone out of some sort of metal - lead is popular due to how many emanations and detections it blocks with an inch or less of thickness - that you can stand comfortably inside. Decorate with stars and moons to taste. Use shrink item to reduce it to a cloth consistency and the size of a pointy wizard's hat. When you find yourself inside an AMF, the shrink item effect is suppressed and your hat immediately becomes a large metal cone completely surrounding you. This blocks the AMF's emanation (as well as pretty much anything else your foe might want to target you with in the brief period you're going to stay there). Use teleportation magic of some sort to exit and proceed to punish whoever dared attack you in such an undignified manner. If you're not sure that is possible, simply escape, and come back later when you're better prepared.

This is funny and creative and great. But I can't help but wonder if you would wind up shearing your ears off or similarly hurting yourself as the hat grows back to full size. If it's a non-instantaneous resizing, then the thing gradually growing back to full size would first push down on your ears, then neck and back and possibly end up decapitating you as you are forced forward with your neck between the edge of the enlarging cone and the ground. If it is an instantaneous resizing, then I suppose you don't have to worry about that so much.

Also, if you intend to do any kind of temporal shenanigans involving moving faster than everyone else with regards to time progressing, play an Elan. They're from the expanded psionics handbook in 3.5, and I'm pretty sure dreamscarred press translated them into pathfinder with their immortality in tact (that is, they have no maximum age). With the Greater Age Resistance spell as a level 6 spell, and an Elan, you could have an ancient guy with no age penalties (just a +3 to int, wis and cha from aging). Slap that Greater Age Resistance on a magic item and you have the fountain of youth on your immortal, and with a demiplane that's moving faster than the normal time stream, all the time in the world to plan your next moves.

Segev
2015-07-10, 09:34 AM
This is funny and creative and great. But I can't help but wonder if you would wind up shearing your ears off or similarly hurting yourself as the hat grows back to full size. If it's a non-instantaneous resizing, then the thing gradually growing back to full size would first push down on your ears, then neck and back and possibly end up decapitating you as you are forced forward with your neck between the edge of the enlarging cone and the ground. If it is an instantaneous resizing, then I suppose you don't have to worry about that so much.

A legitimate concern, but is something that is not covered in the RAW and which, if your DM is being fair rather than just looking for "gotchas," is something your character should know. It's less stylish, but it can be mitigated by making it something that covers head and shoulders with eye-holes, instead. It would then never apply weight solely on the head and would extend down around the body from the get-go. Going this route, I strongly recommend against making it white and recommend making it more dome-shaped rather than peaked to avoid unfortunate associations. You know, unless you're playing up such associations to make you seem more evil.

However, by both rule-of-cool and RAW, there is nothing saying it sheers off ears or knocks you prone before it is fully de-magickified into a you-containing cone.

unseenmage
2015-07-10, 12:14 PM
The way the game deals with injuries is in the abstraction that is hit points. Even if the hat did shear off ears or damage other parts, so long as it didn't deal enough damage to give you the unconciious status or kill your character it wouldn't matter. You're one heal potion away from being perfectly healthy again.