How to concentrate enemies in one narrow area?

[Citan]

Hi all!

One question has been running in my mind for some time. As you know, many spells and class abilities have an offensive power which shines only when enemies are packed together (Volley, Fireball, Walls etc).

However, unless I missed something, I didn't see any spell/ability in 5e that would allow someone to force monsters dispersed in a medium/large area to regroup in one place (like a spell for Bard of Wizard in DD4, where an illusory chest popped and lured monsters into going near it).

So, did I miss a spell or an ability? Otherwise, what are the means available?

[Ninja_Prawn]

There is a reason why Antipathy/Sympathy is a level 8 spell...

Ideally, you shouldn't rely on magic to solve this one; the answer lies in tactics and strategy. Force enemies to attack you through a bottleneck. Ambush them while they're having a private meeting. Outflank them with Battlemasters and Open Hand Monks. etc.

Other options include Gust of Wind (or a Wind Fan), Thorn Whip, Repelling Blast, etc.

[Mjolnirbear]

Nope. No such ability. A spell that did that would be OP, because it could guarantee max coverage for AoE spells like Burning Hands, Fireball or Sleep.

You can accomplish something similar sometimes using tactics. Retreating through a hallway can set up the enemies for a line attack (say, Lightning). Blocking a doorway can help with a cone, square, or sphere attack as the enemies try to gang up on the guy blocking the doorway.

The problem is that if your DM is smart, your enemies will use tactics too. Retreating down a hallway sets you up for a line attack. Blocking a doorway means nothing if half the enemies stand back and use ranged. Tactical movement works best for dumb enemies. My group has no problem telling someone "those goblins are too dumb to use advanced tactics" or "your paladin is a paladunce, do you really think he'd know to do that?" We are big on shutting down metagaming, which anyone can do even without realizing it.

In my experience, the best chance is to catch them off guard, before they've had time for tactical movement. Hope your sorceror gets to go before the bad guys. I wiped an entire bandit raid with a fireball once.


EDIT: Didn't think about Anti/sympathy spell.

[charlesk]

There are also quite a few spells that create "unfavorable" terrain that would "encourage" monsters to leave one area in favor of another. These can be used strategically.

[Shining Wrath]

Wall spells to reduce movement options - even Grease might lead them to go around. Conjured creatures to be living walls. Minor Creation to put a 5' cube of wood in the way.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Minor Creation to put a 5' cube of wood in the way.

* Not recommended against fire elementals.

[charlesk]

There are also quite a few spells that create "unfavorable" terrain that would "encourage" monsters to leave one area in favor of another. These can be used strategically.

[Shining Wrath]

* Not recommended against fire elementals.

Instant Wall of Smoke = Win

[WampDiesel]

Lvl 4 bard spell. Compulsion. Forces enemies to get out of your way by moving in a path that is perpendicular to you. If used in tight corridors can be used to line everyone up nicely.

[GiantOctopodes]

There are actually plenty of options to do so! I refer to characters who primarily engage in such activities as "block puzzlers", personally, as they just run around pushing enemies together (or keeping them together), and indeed they combo quite well!

Some of the basics:
Repelling Blast- At will, up to 10' per beam (you can do less, so you don't have to worry about overshooting), can hit up to 4 targets or can push a single target up to 40', offers no save, deals decent damage. The penultimate pushing around ability, but since you can't move between attacks, it's unidirectional.
Pushing Attack (Battlemaster Maneuver)- Strength Check by enemy, if they fail can push them up to 15'. Since multiple of these can be done in a turn, you can shove people all over with the fighter's multiple attacks.
Open Hand Technique (Monk)- Same as pushing attack, but only applies on flurry of blows attacks. However, it is relatively speaking more efficient, since you can do this up to 20x per short rest, vs the fighter's up to 7x per short rest.
Grappling- There's a whole handbook on grappling, but the long and short of it is you can restrain up to 2 enemies and drag them around with you. Careful positioning can put them in place for an AOE while you remain outside.
Shove- Deals no damage, but anyone can do it and it's at will.

And once you've pushed them into position, keeping them there:
The restrained condition- Whether through Entanglement (or similar), nets, grapples, or whatever else, keep in mind that (based on my current understanding of RAW) a creature that starts its turn restrained (and thus has a speed of 0) cannot move on their turn, even if they end the restrained condition.
Sentinel- This is what it's designed for. Keeps folks in place.
Slow effects- Whether slow itself, spirit guardians, or whatever else, you can reduce their speed to a crawl.
Knocking them prone- You can knock them prone (multiple ways to do so, including battlemaster maneuvers (trip attack), the monk's open hand technique, the shove maneuver, etc, as well as a variety of spells) and force them to *actually* crawl, or lose a huge chunk of their movement trying to stand.
Wall effects- As indicated previously, walls prevent people from going in a given direction, and reduces their movement options. Can make it so people on the edge of an effect (such as spirit guardians) must walk all the way through to the other side, rather than being able to hop out.


Anyway, those are just some of the many tools to put your enemies where you want them and keep them there. Hopefully that helps!

[Citan]

Thanks all for your replies. I was aiming specifically at cases where enemies are in large area without any natural way to enclose them, didn't think about creative use of difficult terrain though.

You all provided very interesting roads to follow, as a PC... And as a DM mwhahahaha (some fiendy ideas popped into my head while reading all your tips, poor PCs).

Thanks a bunch again ;)

[Kurt Kurageous]

Throw gold.

[Steampunkette]

Cast "Leomunds Barbecue Basting" on the party halfling.

[MaxWilson]

Hi all!

One question has been running in my mind for some time. As you know, many spells and class abilities have an offensive power which shines only when enemies are packed together (Volley, Fireball, Walls etc).

However, unless I missed something, I didn't see any spell/ability in 5e that would allow someone to force monsters dispersed in a medium/large area to regroup in one place (like a spell for Bard of Wizard in DD4, where an illusory chest popped and lured monsters into going near it).

So, did I miss a spell or an ability? Otherwise, what are the means available?

You can't really force them to clump up. Instead, think of Fireball as a tactic which prevents them from clumping up, and then reflect that this guarantees that the party can never be at too much of a force disadvantage in melee. As long as the fighter can kill an ogre in one-on-one combat, area effect spells will ensure that he never has to fight four of them at once. Hopefully.

Also, sometimes the enemy will clump up out of stupidity if you e.g. plant a Wall of Fire in a strategic location. If they're in a hurry to get to the fight, they may clump up coming around the wall instead of patiently maintaining a dispersed formation. You can encourage them to rush things by planting the Wall of Fire in a place where it cuts off a part of the enemy force; their allies will rush to "rescue" their buddies from you killing them, and you Fireball them as they come around the edge of the wall. Wall of Stone is even better for building instant chokepoints because it doesn't have to be a flat plane, unlike other wall spells.

HTH.

[Ninja_Prawn]

... the party can never be at too much of a force disadvantage in melee. As long as the fighter can kill an ogre in one-on-one combat, area effect spells will ensure that he never has to fight four of them at once.

Reminds me of Xykon's tactic of charging into melee and casting AoE fire spells on himself, then laughing because of his fire resistance. I'm surprised no one's suggested it yet!

[PoeticDwarf]

Lvl 4 bard spell. Compulsion. Forces enemies to get out of your way by moving in a path that is perpendicular to you. If used in tight corridors can be used to line everyone up nicely.

But that's the only one.

[Citan]

But that's the only one.
And it's not easy to pull it off efficiently because it makes enemies move away/towards from you in a line... Or at least it's what I understand, although I wonder why they used such a convoluted redaction (did they use "horizontal" to mean you can't force a target to jump away or fall down?)...

What's frustrating though is that I couldn't get my hands on the spell from DD4 I was talking about in OP post (and now that many DD4 resources with spell description have disappeared, it's more difficult), but I'm pretty really sure it existed as a mid-level carrier power...