PF - Any Way Around the Robotics Lab Artifact Requirement When Building Robots?

[unseenmage]

Am aiming to build some (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Craft%20Robot) robots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/robot) and am frustrated by the fact that the Robotics Lab it requires is a technological artifact. :smallmad:

Anyone have ideas on how this could be sidestepped?


Also curious about how much the thing could cost to build but I'm unfamiliar with PFs methods for such. I know in 3.x there's a sort of artifact maker in an Eberron book, sort of. And if I were to make it in 3.x I'd use the SBG for Wondrous Architecture and the AaEG for the cost of putting a feat in an item.

- Technology Laboratories are non-magical locations, there should be some way to use that to our advantage.
- Can we use Divination magic to find them? Optimally en mass?
- Can we magically make a duplicate of the entire room? (Perhaps by applying Animate Objects or Shrink item then some cloning procedure?)
- The room has charges, anyway to regain the charges? Perhaps by turning back time on the room itself?

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm... if it was "standard" technological items (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/technological-equipment), I'd suggest going the Fabricate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fabricate) route to avoid the artifact-level tools, as they're not magical items. Robots qualify as creatures, however, and so can't be made by that spell. If it's any consolation, other technological goods have similar requirements for what's needed.

Perhaps use Fabricate to build the necessary laboratory? You'll probably need to adventure for various required components....

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Mechanically I don't think there's a way around it. I'd worry less about the facility technically being an artifact, and more that its a fully stocked high-tech robotics lab that requires a power supply. It's a world feature, you have to find one.

[unseenmage]

Mechanically I don't think there's a way around it. I'd worry less about the facility technically being an artifact, and more that its a fully stocked high-tech robotics lab that requires a power supply. It's a world feature, you have to find one.

That's a really good point! I wonder what the best way to find them would be? Though I suspect the answer is going to involve spellcasting. All the best problems are solved via spellcasting.

[Jack_Simth]

That's a really good point! I wonder what the best way to find them would be? Though I suspect the answer is going to involve spellcasting. All the best problems are solved via spellcasting.
Roll Gather Information, Knowldge(Geography), or similar, and force your DM to assign a DC.

[Psyren]

This sounds like the kind of thing that, if it's in your world, your GM already has a way for you to get there - and if it's not, no amount of "forcing" will get them to create one for you :smalltongue:

[unseenmage]

This sounds like the kind of thing that, if it's in your world, your GM already has a way for you to get there - and if it's not, no amount of "forcing" will get them to create one for you :smalltongue:

Part of my reason for posting this question is definitely to help myself and the DM get a grip on how attainable a goal these things can be.

He and I are both the sort who like to know as much as possible before we handwave things.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Well, in that case, labs. Technological Laboratories are, as you might guess, rare in most common Pathfinder settings. In Golarion, if any exist they are in Numeria, undoubtedly well-guarded by the Technic League. In other worlds, its up to the GM, but if there's no sci-fi tech, there are no labs. Crafting laboratories, needed to make use of all those prerequisite technological creation feats, need to be powered by a generator, which is classified as a technological artifact. Meaning, it really is impossible to make within the mechanical framework of the rules. Even if you had a Trueforge, or something like that. There are seven types of labs (I presume), each takes up a different amount of charges per day when used to craft: Cybernetics (100), Graviton (250) Medical (20), Military (100), Nanotech (150), Production (50), and Robotics (200). Technically these can be supplied by batteries and not generators, but since they must be operated for ungodly amounts of time, and the charges are required per day, this is... kind of insane.

[Sagetim]

Am aiming to build some (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Craft%20Robot) robots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/robot) and am frustrated by the fact that the Robotics Lab it requires is a technological artifact. :smallmad:

Anyone have ideas on how this could be sidestepped?


Also curious about how much the thing could cost to build but I'm unfamiliar with PFs methods for such. I know in 3.x there's a sort of artifact maker in an Eberron book, sort of. And if I were to make it in 3.x I'd use the SBG for Wondrous Architecture and the AaEG for the cost of putting a feat in an item.

Step 1: get a date on the operation time period of a laboratory in question (such as finding the ruins of one and dating it to when it worked).
Step 2: get as much gold as you possibly can. Magic items will help too, it doesn't really matter what they are.
step 3: go to dragonlance campaign setting and bribe a black robe master of a tower to time reaver you back as far as they can go. Repeat this process with subsequent bribing. I'm sure Dalamar the Dark would be willing to take some eternal wands for sending you back in time.
step 4: keep getting time reavered until you get to the time period when the robotics lab was operational and hopefully not under attack. You may need to spend some time in dragonlance and become a wizard of high sorcery and work your way up the chain of command to learn time reaver to cast it yourself.
step 5: head back from dragonlance to your campaign setting and commision/build the robots you so desperately desire.
step 6: get the plans, while you're at it.
step 7: become an elan, this is going to be a long wait.
step 8: wait in a secluded area or demiplane until just before the you before dragonlance heads out to dragonlance.
step 9: you should have had enough time to become a venerable elan and fairly high level just from studying. Use this to intercept yourself and give your past you the army you made and possibly the robot lab too.
step 10: Never go back to Dragonlance and hope that any paradox you have caused is contained to just that plane of existence and it's time manipulation magic.

edit: Oh right, it's ideas like this that tend to result in me getting the title world ****er.

[unseenmage]

Just had the thought this morning that a) if the lab is nonmagical it could be Animate Object-ed or Shrink Item-ed or similar; and b) is there a way we can use this to somehow clone the lab or turn back time on it to regain charges?

The above is assuming, of course, that we can use Divination magics to find the lab in the first place.

[Scowling Dragon]

Depends on how nice your GM is. I assume the nuclear generators if shrunk, would do something horrible.

You kinda can't "Game" terrain features. Funny enough, the PF crew made it a requirement so as to not be gameable.

[unseenmage]

Depends on how nice your GM is. I assume the nuclear generators if shrunk, would do something horrible.

You kinda can't "Game" terrain features. Funny enough, the PF crew made it a requirement so as to not be gameable.

I respect your respect for the PF teams RAI but that isn't helpful to me in this instance. If it helps the DM is on board and agrees with my aim to find a way around the prohibitive pricing and non-availability of tech in Golarion.

Again, our goal is to see what's possible through theoretical optimization and use that as a guidepost for how much handwaving the DM wants to do in-game.



IMHO non-magical game elements in a magical gameworld are just begging to be gamable. :smalltongue:

[Scowling Dragon]

The scariest monsters in D&D are those with untyped stats.

By RAW there are no rules for creating Tech Labs, therefore you cannot create a tech lab. There are no rules for how magic reacts with SCIENCE! So I assume nothing if your just going raw uncreative.

You set the question: How can this be gamed by raw? The answer: There is no RAW. So its up to each GM. If you want a way around the Tech the GM can just reduce the cost and make the stations akin to Alchemy labs and creatable. There.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Not when they are technological. Also, all generators are Colossal sized, I think they are just out of size range to be shrunk. If your DM is on board, ask him if you can find a way to access a bunch of labs and a generator. Fusion reactor should be adequate, since it outputs enough to power the robotics lab, plus extra for any technological gizmos you pick up.

Also, technology and magic can mix... but it can be volatile. You can make a +3 laser rifle! Tech weapons even count as masterwork! There are spells to charge and fix technology! There are anti-tech fields! In fact, if your character is going to be using tech crafting, go Technologist. You lose a caster level, but gain SO much if you're dealing with tech.