Computer League of Legends LXIV: 404 Thread Title Not Found [Archive]

View Full Version : Computer League of Legends LXIV: 404 Thread Title Not Found

Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6

TechnOkami

2015-07-09, 03:57 AM

League of Legends LXIV: 404 Thread Title Not Found

Welcome! You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/en/signup/). It's a free MOBA based on Defense of the Ancients.

If it sounds like we're speaking a foreign language in here, the glossary of LoL terms (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_terminology) can help you with that.

We maintain lists of players, sorted by server. If you are not on these lists and would like to be, please post in the thread with the following information in bold: Server (if you don't know it, it's likely the region you're in, but it's worth checking anyway), your Forum Name, and your Summoner Name. It's also a good idea to go ahead and send me a PM with such information to ensure I see it.

If no reply's been made about adding you after a day or two, first check the lists to see if you've been added. If not, feel free to post again or PM me. Any incorrectly formatted posts may be overlooked.

BR Server MORDEKAISER ES NUMERO UNO

Forum Name
Game Name

Draken
Draken Frosthand

Slayn82
Slayn82

NA Server

Forum Name
Game Name

0tt3r
0tt3r

9mm
cwcriner

Adumbration
Benefice

aethernox
joyless

Alemil
Alemil

Alter
AlterForm

Anarion
Anarion55

Anonomuss
OpticalSage

Antonok
Antonok

Arbitrarity
Arbitrarity

ArcanistSupreme
Arcanist Supreme

Archangel Yuki
Yocham

Artanis
LegacyCWAL

assassin89
nineballcirno

Astrella
Sirroelivan

Astrro
Astrro

AtwasAwamps
AtwasAwamps

Aurenthal
Estor

Averis Vol
AverisVol

Baron Corm
Baron Corm

Baxter
Thefettered

big teej
big teej

BinaryMage
BinaryMage

Bliss Authority
Companion N00b

Blueiji
Blueiji

BobVosh
BobVosh -or- VoshBob

Bookboy
Keledrath

Brother Oni
MarineHK4861

Caffeine
excesscaffeine

Caradryan
Ying Quliang

Careem Soda
Careem Soda

CarpeGuitarrem
CarpeGuitarrem

Castleraven
Castleraven

cdstephens
cdstephens

Chess435
Chess435

Clarkson
fkrts

Copacetic
Azbu

Creed
Moarzed

CrnvorousMeece
CarnivorousMeece

Croverus
Croverus

Cute_Riolu
Cute Riolu

Dante & Vergil
Raphiezar

Darius Macab
Hawkfrost000

Darth Mario
Darth Mario

Daverin
Daverin

Demotivated
Demotivated

Dentrag2
Callinectes

dgnslyr
GANKERLagann

Dichotomy
Kaellin

Dire Ferret
Guvna Kit Kit

Djinn in Tonic
The Djinn

Dogmantra
Dogmantra

Don Julio Anejo
Don Julio Anejo

douglas
DouglasM

Doxkid
Doxkid

Dragonus45
Dragonus45

Drager0
Drager0

Dragor
Supernaturalist

Draken
Draken Frosthand

DrakeRaids
DrakeRaids057

Dralnu
TomerIsHot

Drizztfan24
Drizztfan24

Duck999
Duck999

dukexx
JacksonHicks

Duos
DapperGuy

Dusk Eclipse
DuskShadow

efdf
efdf

EifieFlare
EifieFlare

Elagune
Chopstyx

Eldariel
Elealar

EndlessWrath
Andurin

Epicfaillol
Ether Master

Errandir
Ramses III

EternalMelon
EternalMelon

faith
Ferrovax101

FantomFang
FantomFang

Farix
Jiin in Tin

Faulty
FaultyClockwork

Fawkes
Count Fawkes

FeverFox
Alcopop

Firedaemon33
Firedaemon33

fjolnir
fjolnir

Flagpole
Flagpole

Flarowon
Kruin Avabruc

Flechair
Master Zealot

FleshrakerAbuse
Archdruid21

Folytopo
Folytopo

Forrestfire
Forrestfire15

Frankelshtein
McFinkelstein

Fredaintdead
Fredthefighter

Freudianship
LeiteaSalk

Gallus
Anechois

Geigan
Geigan

Giant Panda
Le Shirrif

gimliggamer
Wizard Warlock

Gizladlo
Gizladlo

glemis
glemis

Godskook
Bethor Kookalian

Gourtox
Gourtox

Gruffard
Gruffard

Grytorm

HalfTangible
HalfTangible

hamiltond465
Duodecimus

Hanuman
HanumanXoO

Happy Gravity
Deimosaur

Hatevah
Hatevah

heronbpv
Avan

Hicks
Jacksonhicks

Holocron Coder
Holocron

Hullabaloo
Sosrey

Incomp
Incomp

InyutheBeatIs
Believe Inyu

Istari
IstariK

Ivellius
Ivellius

Jamin
CapZich

Jaxzan Proditor
Jaxzan Proditor

JKTrickster
ZenTrickster

Joran
Jorana

KaizoMK
KaizoMK

Kara Kuro
RaptorKitty

Kciemir
Ghostface Ki11ah

Kettle
Kettle747

king.com
kingcom

Kinslayer
HaunterReqiuem

Kirbot
Kirbot

kmchii
kmchii

knightMARE
Sir Wiffleston

Kopaka
Portent

Kotarus
Adrameleck

Kwazey
Kwazey

Kris on a Stick
The Adversary

Lansky
Blurbie

Laudandus
Laudandus

LegoShrimp
LegoShrimp

LightWraith
TheLightWraith

Lil Shiro
Mizz Mitchell

litewarior
litewarior

Lonely Tylenol
If I Had a Hifi

Lord_Gareth
Prince of Knives

Lord Generic
Lord Generic

LordShotGun
LordShotGun

LostEnder
LostEnder

Low-Key
TheFuzziestBear

Lunix Vandal
Lunix Vandal

lvl 1 sharnian
StarryEagle

Lyrakien
Lyrakien

Lyxie
Lyxie

Mabn
Gafslicher

Maeglin_Dubh
Tycho Velius

Makensha
Jarbis

MammonAzrael
MammonAzrael

Manticoran
Manticoran

Maryring
Skilvrel

MasatoHyuga
MasatoHyuga

Master_Rahl22
Goltoth

master256
QWERTYSTOP

Math_Mage
Mathmage

Mathematicae
Mathematicae

Mattarias, King.
Mattarias

Malmagor Andrigal
Madmal

Maxios
Maxios20

McCerberus
MCerberus

McDougal
McDouggal

Meatshield#236
Meatshield236

Merellis
Merellis

Mike_the_Mystic
Kraemer

Milskidasith
Milskidasith

Mindfreak586
Mindfreak586

Mirrinus
Parallaxal

Miscast_Mage
MiscastMage

Moklok
KokoBWare

Mr. Mud
Proposal

mrcarter11
Mrcarter11

mrzomby
mrzomby

Mtg_player_zach
MtgPlayerZach

Mushroom Ninja
Mushroom Ninja

Mutant Bunny
WhollySpart

Nadevoc
Xenik

Nanoblack
IwearSILLYhats

Nargan
Naryuk

Necroticplague
Yamidamian

Neoseanster
Neoseanster

NeoSeraphi
NeoSeraphi

NeoVid
NeoVid

Nerocite
Nerocite

neXianXavia
neXianXavia

Ninja_Grand
Ninja_Grand

NoobForHire
Taishar Malkier

NotAEvilToaster
NeonPie

oblivion6
warcrown10

Octopus Jack
Thalric

Olinser
Olinser

One Tin Soldier
beelzebubcbgptch

Otomodachi
Cyfarfod

Outsideheaven
Outsideheaven

Perkinz
Perkinz

PersonMan
Nsev

Pie Guy
Qwazes

pilvento
Kandrass

PhantomFox
PhantomFox7

PhoeKun
PhoeKun

Pocal
Pocalem

Poison Fish
Baron Von Flib

Postmodernist
Postmodernist

Protecar
Godreig

Protecar
Atk

Psychotic
SquirrelFish

Qaera
Qaera

ragingrage
ragingrage

Raistlin1040
Sanevale

Rama
Nargus

Raroy
setokaibasmt

RationalGoblin
AtillathePun

Raven444
Iskandarl

Raveypoos
Rhaviewoos

Reinboom
Riot Reinboom

recklessabaddon
recklessabaddon

Reprimand
BardicMusic

revolver kobold
A Magic Kobold

Reynard
Duke Reynington

Ryomasa
Ryomasa

Sallera
Sallera

Saveducks
ElGrandisimo

Serpentine
Lady Serpentine

Shades of Gray
PierreAbelard

shadowwalker64
shadowwalker65

Shadowleaf
Shadowdancing

Shadow Lord
ShadowLordgiantitp

Shadowy
DJPON3Vinyl

Samshiir
Samshiir

ShortOne
LittlePoppy

SidCoolios
Irazel

Silverraptor
Silverraptor

Siosilvar
Siosilvar

Sircarp
Sircarp

SirSigfried
LibertarianSDR

Slash_712
Catfud

[redacted]
sofawall

sonofzeal
sonofzeal

St. Viers
St.Viers

Starfols
Starfols

Starswords
Starswords

SuperPanda
Lokilar

TalonDemonKing
TalonDemonKing

TechnOkami
Techn0kami

Temotei
Temotei221

Terazul
Allegretto

term1nally s1ck
silverdevilboy

tesla_pasta
generictownsman

TheAmishPirate
TheAmishPirate

Thanatos 51-50
Thanatos Erebus

The_Ditto
Ditto11

The_Fiery_Tower
TFT

TheGlowingRogue
I Glow In Dark

Themage
AFK

Thethan
Thethan

The Hellbug
hellbug22

The Rabbler
Paco H Jones

The Shadowmind
The Shadowmind

The Valiant Turtle
Valiant Turtle

Thrantar
Thrantar

Thrawn183
Thrawnyboy

throtecutter
throtecutter

toasty
toastymow

Thomas Cadrew
DecadentPheonix

Tono
Tono Chou

Treayn
Treayn

tribble
Smallbluedot

Tychris1
Tychris1

u-gotNOgame
UGNG -or- Sirius Amory

userpay
userpay

Vauron
Vauron

Volatar
The Volatar

Vwulf DeMarcus
NinjaXeq

wandiya
wandiya

Wolf_Haley
Jon Talbain

Winterwind
DreamingHeart

Winthur
Seyruun

WyvernLord
WyvernThornKing

woodzyowl
Woodzyowl

XaioTie
Tiefernan

Zabbarot
Zabbarot

Zeful
Zeful

ZeltArruin
ZeltArruin

Zemro
Shivic

ZeroNumerous
ZeroNumerous

Zeteni
Zeteni

Zinc
El Jaun Zinco

zmasterofjersey
GhosTazer

zolga
TheZolga

EU Server--West

Forum Name
Game Name

Acromos
Crannoch

Adumbration
Adumbration

Anonomuss
Anonomuss

Azimov
Sidhe de Athame

Brother Oni
MarineHK4861

Cheers
Sam vds

Cyborg Mage
Cyborg Mage98

Dallas-Dakota
ThePirateHobbit

Eldariel
Elealar

Even Human
SlyGuyMcFly

fishjam
fishjam

Gauntlet
Isva

GreenSerpent
Darius or Draven

HalfDragonCube
giantmudkip

Krazzman
Viskerin

Maryring
Skilvrel

Maxymiuk
Maxymiuk

Mc. Lovin
B1GB1RDB4G3L

Miscast_Mage
MiscastMage

monkeyboyinc
monkeyboyinc

Morph Bark
Morpheus Bob

Nargan
Naryuk

Outsideheaven
Outsideheaven

PersonMan
Scarge

Reb46
Reb46

Reynard
Duke Reyn

Runhidesurvive
Jmack10

Saph
StarSaph

SanguisAevum
Sanguis Aevum

shadowwalker64
shadowwalker64

Socratov
Mbutu

Stuebi
Stuebi

Talesin
Fridgecake

term1nally s1ck
Silverdevilboy

That'd_be_me
AntiLocke

TheGeckoKing
Alpharis Omega

Volatar
VolatarUK

Winterwind
DreamingHeart

Ziren
Zirenoid

zolga
MasterZolga

EU Server--Unspecified

Forum Name
Game Name

Abakus
Terpfen

Alemil
Alemil

Ayra
Ayramatao

Darwin
DarwinBeGood

Endoperez
Endoperez

Heliomance
Sidhe de Grian

Kurrel
GrinningOni

littlebottom
Littlebottom

lord_khaine
Lord_khaine

Narazil
Narazil

Narkis
Narkis

Penthar
Malderon

Raviepoos
Skittles Unicorn

Shadowleaf
AncientPharma

Voidhawk
Sidhe ne Awk

Zefir
Einerwie

Zombywoof
Zombywoof

LA North Server

Forum Name
Game Name

Dusk Eclipse
DuskSoul

Mtg_player_zach
G0dless

UrashimaJamez
UrashimaJamez

SEA Server

Forum Name
Game Name

abadguy
Smite Thy Enemy

Haruspex_Pariah
Haruspex

Oceanic Server

Forum Name
Game Name

One Step Two
Tempest656

Red Rubber Band
HeWhoIsJohn

Sajiri
Sajiri

Turkey (TR) Server

Forum Name
Game Name

Eloel
[unknown]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a Mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

The Admins are: Djinn_in_Tonic (TheDjinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (Raven)
Moderators: Manticoran, Ryomasa, Dogmantra, Vampire Pumpkin, Haunter, Lady Saker
Names are Giantitp names, followed by Mumble monikers.

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Legoshrimp (http://www.twitch.tv/legoshrimp)
McDouggal (http://www.twitch.tv/McDouggal)
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
The Fiery Tower (http://www.twitch.tv/the_fiery_tower)

GUIDES & CHAMPION OVERVIEWS
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here. With all of the updates to the game over the years, these may be somewhat dated, but a lot of the information is still useful.
Champion Introductions:
Thanks to Eldariel, Playgrounders in Thread XLV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277003) wrote blurbs to introduce players to their favorite champions. Yay.
Ahri (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14981225&postcount=520) by SlyGuyMcFly
Alistar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15079170&postcount=297) by Joran
Amumu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14991206&postcount=727) by Ivellius
Anivia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971268&postcount=332) by Eldariel
Annie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14972307&postcount=366) by endoperez
Caitlyn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973242&postcount=375) by McDougal
Cho'Gath (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973137&postcount=374) by Happy Gravity
Janna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976717&postcount=424) by Winthur
Fizz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971765&postcount=345) by PersonMan
Hecarim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973331&postcount=377) by Arbitrarity
Irelia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14980231&postcount=502) by aethernox
Kennen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973033&postcount=372) by Anarion
LeBlanc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15049895&postcount=15) by Miscast_Mage
Lulu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14975266&postcount=413) by Kris on a Stick
Nasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971542&postcount=340) by TheShrike
Nocturne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15057985&postcount=97) by Darius Macab
Olaf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14972935&postcount=371) by dgnslyr
Rengar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14974241&postcount=387) by ChaosOS
Singed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976931&postcount=427) by QWERTSTOP
Skarner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14984458&postcount=591) by TechnOkami
Sona (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971676&postcount=344) by Forrestfire
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14975078&postcount=409) by Math_Mage
Vi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976557&postcount=423) by Pherinos
Zyra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14982344&postcount=541) by The Fiery Tower

General Guides:
A General Guide to Support (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32), by Math Mage
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champion Guides:
Be warned. These guides are, by and large, outdated. Much of the information referenced in these guides has been made obsolete as a result of League's natural patch cycle and changes from Season to Season. If you're looking for information on a champion, you'll have better luck at SoloMid.net (http://solomid.net/guides.php?champ=&sort=2&display=4&x=98&y=9) or LolPro.com (http://LoLPro.com). Alternatively, ask the thread!
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage
Videos*
Raise your ELO MMR by 400 points with these easy tricks! Or just have a good time.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
Art in its purest form, surely.LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

PREVIOUS THREADS
Behold the discussions of the past!
League of Legends LXIII: You Spoony Bard! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402202-League-of-Legends-LXIII-You-Spoony-Bard!)
**league_of_legends_thread_62: show_running_gag_title("The Wins Of Winthur"); (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377485-**league_of_legends_thread_62-show_running_gag_title%28-quot-The-Wins-Of-Winthur-quot-%29)
League-of-legends-LXI-Demaglia! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367660-League-of-legends-LXI-Demaglia!)
League of Legends LX: A Song of Loss and Ire - Dance at Dragon
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361165-League-of-Legends-LX-A-Song-of-Loss-and-Ire-Dance-at-Dragon)League of Legends LIX: Ice Cream, Stamps, and Lorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?353629-League-of-Legends-LIX-Ice-Cream-Stamps-and-Lorn)
League of Legends LVIII: URFworld (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17244032&postcount=1)
League of Legends LVII: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Feast for Cho (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331764-League-of-Legends-LVII-A-Song-of-Loss-and-Ire-A-Feast-for-Cho)
League of Legends lVI: ME BRO! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325851)
League of Legends LV: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Storm of Wards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319175)
League of Legends: We will LIV, they will die (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312431)
League of Legends LIII: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Clash of Pings (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307325)
League of Legends LII: Sin of the Blind Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302528)
League of Legends LI: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Game of Throws (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298396)
League of Legends L: Lucian's Lost Love's Luxurious Lantern Lodge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293376)
League of Legends XLIX: Why are there snowballs in a jungle? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289027)
League of Legends XLVIII: A Broken Spine is Just a Twist of Fate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15339231#post15339231)
League of Legends XLVII: Legend of Poro - Retcons on Ice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282669)
League of Legends XLVI: Everybody now comes from Freljord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279408)
League of Legends XLV: They ruined the King AND his blade! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277003)
League of Legends XLIV: *SQUAWK* Who's there? *SQUAWK* League of Legends XLIV who? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273412)
League of Legends XLIII: Now with 100% more Leagues. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270068)
League of Legends XLII: I Hope The New Champ Is Vi-able (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266201)
League of Legends XLI: Fish Are Friends, Not Food (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263722)
League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'till Morello Gets Gold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261213)
League of Legends XXXIX: Harrowing in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14079780#post14079780)
League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13921041)
League of Legends XXXVII: Thread Name Delayed for Further Testing on PBE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253343)
League of Legends XXXVI: Thread Now Invisible When You're Not Looking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250948)
League of Legends XXXV: Jayce, the Defender of Soon™ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248760)
League of Legends XXXIV: No Exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246004)
League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13142848#post13142848)
League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237600)
League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF And Janna! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234631)
League of Legends XXX: Must be Summoner Level 18 to View (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231927)
League of Legends XXIX: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229460)
League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵（╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

mrcarter11

2015-07-09, 04:07 AM

To be fair, it's not like I was going to.

NineThePuma

2015-07-09, 05:10 AM

check mark. :D

Stuebi

2015-07-09, 05:48 AM

Man, League actually rocks again.

So, I've finally reached Gold. And what a journey it was. It's hard to put the satisfaction and enjoyment into words after seeing that golden Icon appear. Because now the pressure is almost entirely gone, and I've gotten back on track with wanting to improve myself, over actually advancing to a certain spot.

I'm also happy to say, as weird as it may sound, that I actually rediscovered the Fun-Part of League. In Silver I, I was so obsessed with getting to Gold that playing almost equated to work. Every loss annoyed the frick out of me, I was frustrated after basically every session. And I also argued and complained a lot more in Chat.

One of the main things that brought the fun part back was getting back to play what I actually like. I've come to hate the obsession of some people with "Meta", with Champions decried as useless before the match even starts. I played Shaco and Hecarim (Jungle) and the past weeks, and I have been having more fun and success than in the entirety of the last season. I want to get into more Champions with a high skill-ceiling that I played in the past, will probably give Hecarim Mid a go. I also wanted to play Ekko Jungle for a while, but I didnt have a lot of success (He constantly runs low on health when I jungle with him, maybe he just needs a different setup).

Current plans: reduce death count in games and try to get Gold IV while I'm at it. I really hope some of the basic game knowledge in higher Gold Leagues improve. Still way to many people not properly playing with wards and not focusing on objectives.

Jaxzan Proditor

2015-07-09, 06:35 AM

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-09, 08:15 AM

Nothing to see here folks, just posting to subscribe

ib4 you don't have to post to subscribe

Djinn_in_Tonic

2015-07-09, 08:26 AM

Hello, everyone. Since this is a new thread, I figured I might as well post in here. I'm in the NA Server, my forum name is Jaxzan Proditor and my summoner name is also Jaxzan Proditor. I'm a fairly new and fairly bad player looking to get better. :smallsmile:

Well hello! Welcome to the thread. :smallbiggrin:

Four things a new player should do (if you haven't already):

1 -- Like League on Facebook: You get Tristana for free.
2 -- Follow League on YouTube: You get Alistar for free.
3 -- Play the Tutorial: You get enough IP to unlock one of the cheaper champions.
4 -- Hop on the GiantitP Mumble Server: You'll find instructions in the first post of this thread. We're a pretty friendly bunch, and we have a wide variety of players of all skill levels who'll be happy to play with you, help you learn the game, or just hang out. :smallsmile:

Manticoran

2015-07-09, 08:27 AM

Current plans: reduce death count in games and try to get Gold IV while I'm at it. I really hope some of the basic game knowledge in higher Gold Leagues improve. Still way to many people not properly playing with wards and not focusing on objectives.

Nope. Still solo queue, from bronze to diamond.

Antonok

2015-07-09, 09:54 AM

Posting for the checkmark yeah yeah, it's just easier this way

Ivellius

2015-07-09, 10:34 AM

Well hello! Welcome to the thread. :smallbiggrin:

Four things a new player should do (if you haven't already):

1 -- Like League on Facebook: You get Tristana for free.
2 -- Follow League on YouTube: You get Alistar for free.
3 -- Play the Tutorial: You get enough IP to unlock one of the cheaper champions.
4 -- Hop on the GiantitP Mumble Server: You'll find instructions in the first post of this thread. We're a pretty friendly bunch, and we have a wide variety of players of all skill levels who'll be happy to play with you, help you learn the game, or just hang out. :smallsmile:

You forgot 5 -- Follow League on Twitter: You get Garen for free.

I thought we were on schedule to do another ASoFaI reference with the thread title (A Stream of the River King, perhaps?), but this one is fine.

Anarion

2015-07-09, 10:49 AM

You forgot 5 -- Follow League on Twitter: You get Garen for free.

I thought we were on schedule to do another ASoFaI reference with the thread title (A Stream of the River King, perhaps?), but this one is fine.

I still haven't done that and I've been playing since season 3. Dumb Twitter.

Godskook

2015-07-09, 10:54 AM

You're da real hero, Teckn0

Qwertystop

2015-07-09, 11:57 AM

So. Which of the items in the upcoming new FGM do you think are likely to reappear in the main game at some point?

Manticoran

2015-07-09, 12:11 PM

All of them in one form or another, or they wouldn't be in it. The point of this kind of thing is to test them out, so I suspect unless the items get scrapped we'll see a broad range of items that look suspiciously similar to a lot of these as we get more items reworked, giving an item range and flexibility that looks more like what Dawngate had than what League currently has with very structured concrete paths, or that DotA has with... Their almost completely random components and structuring, as far as I can tell.

Godskook

2015-07-09, 12:41 PM

All of them in one form or another, or they wouldn't be in it. The point of this kind of thing is to test them out

I...disagree with your starting assumption. The point of FGMs is to do weird things that actually aren't likely to show up in Summoner's Rift. Did we ever get uncapped CDR due to URF mode? What about that Ascended-Xerath game? Are doom bots going to become a new standard for co-ops? The idea that FGMs are only a 'front for beta-testing' not only runs counter to what we've seen, but is also horribly constraining.

To your conclusions, that we'll be seeing these items in SR games someday, I say, probably not all of them, but I highly suspect that Riot is going to opportunistically port anything that actually fits their goals for League(similar to Mark/Dash for ARAM).

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-09, 12:47 PM

I think Manticoran was referring to this particular FGM as a sort of beta test, not that all the previous ones were.

So has anybody tried the new sated devourer yet? I fought against a Kayle jungle who build it earlier today and I was unimpressed with it, it took way to long to change (I think she got it at the 30-ish minute mark) and once I got a little MR and Health I stopped getting destroyed by her E. (I wasn't running MR in my runes or masteries).

Manticoran

2015-07-09, 12:57 PM

I've seen it a couple times in my PBE play. Seems pretty strong, I think the Kayle stacked it pretty slowly? And also Kayle kind of sucks as a jungler.

Nadevoc

2015-07-09, 01:03 PM

I'm really not convinced that all the items in the new FGM are potentially going to be ported over. Some might be concepts they liked and thought were fun but realized wouldn't be good for game health. Tossing them in aFGM lets players have some fun with them still. Some might be potential champion skills (for example, the item that teleports you to an ally and makes you look like them seems to me like it's healthier when locked to a champ).

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-09, 01:08 PM

I've seen it a couple times in my PBE play. Seems pretty strong, I think the Kayle stacked it pretty slowly? And also Kayle kind of sucks as a jungler.

Eh it was my first time playing against it, and I was pretty squishy (Evelyn with only 9 armour yellows) early game so perhaps that is why I found it so damaging.

Manticoran

2015-07-09, 01:25 PM

I mean, Evelynn is another one who kind of would rather be doing things that aren't stacking Devourer. There really is a low subset of champions who are actually interested in it and good/fast enough junglers to clear fast and healthy enough to do so. Something like....

Aatrox(Although he might rather just have damage? And regardless is bad)
Fizz
(Jax? Maybe? If he ever becomes a jungler?)
Master Yi
Nocturne
Poppy(If she was competitive)
Rek'sai
Shaco(Except you really probably still want Warrior because while it gives you a late game, it takes away a ton from your early game.)
Shyvana
Udyr
Warwick
Win Nhao.

Of these, I would personally probably only play Fizz, Yi, Nocturne, Rek'sai, Udyr, Warwick, as basically all of the other ones have a problem where other champions just do whatever their niche is better. See: Rek'sai is better than Xin Zhao in almost every way, if you're going Devourer Yi probably does the job a lot better than Shyvana, etc.

PersonMan

2015-07-09, 01:32 PM

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-09, 01:33 PM

Oh no I didn't meant using devourer on Evelyn (though I admit that the double proc on her E tempted me), I meant that I as an Evelyn (runeglaive if you want to know) went against a devourer Kayle and after I got some MR and health she stopped deleting me from the map.

TechnOkami

2015-07-09, 01:40 PM

Hello, everyone. Since this is a new thread, I figured I might as well post in here. I'm in the NA Server, my forum name is Jaxzan Proditor and my summoner name is also Jaxzan Proditor. I'm a fairly new and fairly bad player looking to get better. :smallsmile:

Of course someone wants to be added to the lists when I make the thread. >:P
I'll try to remember to add you when I get home.

Also, I just subscribe to threads I want to keep tabs on so I can see a full list of threads that have new posts in them. Isn't that easier?

Also also, calling it now Tahm is going to be nerfed. His kit just looks so utility heavy it's not even funny. Then again he also seems to be a champion with a high skill ceiling as far as making the most out of his abilities goes, so some time investment to really get to know how to work his kit effectively (although applicable to any champion really) seems more important on Tahm due to how his skills interact with each other.

JKTrickster

2015-07-09, 02:26 PM

Most of the items seem like they won't be ported over to SR. The 'get stacks -> kill minion -> get AD' one, for example, goes entirely against the recent change they made to Devourer (wanting to reduce the 'farm for ever' thing).

On the other hand, teleport on boots sounds so hilarious I can't even wait.

Or the AP Item that pulls everyone to you.

Go Swain. Get Zhonyas and that Item. Ult -> Pull Enemy Team -> Zhonyas.

Or even better, Morgana Ult.

Dear lord :smallbiggrin:

Recaiden

2015-07-09, 02:29 PM

Man, League actually rocks again.

So, I've finally reached Gold. And what a journey it was. It's hard to put the satisfaction and enjoyment into words after seeing that golden Icon appear. Because now the pressure is almost entirely gone, and I've gotten back on track with wanting to improve myself, over actually advancing to a certain spot.

I'm also happy to say, as weird as it may sound, that I actually rediscovered the Fun-Part of League. In Silver I, I was so obsessed with getting to Gold that playing almost equated to work. Every loss annoyed the frick out of me, I was frustrated after basically every session. And I also argued and complained a lot more in Chat.

One of the main things that brought the fun part back was getting back to play what I actually like. I've come to hate the obsession of some people with "Meta", with Champions decried as useless before the match even starts. I played Shaco and Hecarim (Jungle) and the past weeks, and I have been having more fun and success than in the entirety of the last season. I want to get into more Champions with a high skill-ceiling that I played in the past, will probably give Hecarim Mid a go. I also wanted to play Ekko Jungle for a while, but I didnt have a lot of success (He constantly runs low on health when I jungle with him, maybe he just needs a different setup).

Congratulations!

We're a pretty friendly bunch

Djinn, don't lure people in with false information like this. :smalltongue:

Godskook

2015-07-09, 06:20 PM

I mean, Evelynn is another one who kind of would rather be doing things that aren't stacking Devourer. There really is a low subset of champions who are actually interested in it and good/fast enough junglers to clear fast and healthy enough to do so. Something like....

Aatrox(Although he might rather just have damage? And regardless is bad)
Fizz
(Jax? Maybe? If he ever becomes a jungler?)
Master Yi
Nocturne
Poppy(If she was competitive)
Rek'sai
Shaco(Except you really probably still want Warrior because while it gives you a late game, it takes away a ton from your early game.)
Shyvana
Udyr
Warwick
Win Nhao.

Assuming you've had 3 kill participation since buying it, 2 dragons(with scuttlers), 3 rotations of buffs, and 10 minutes of only farming raptors and ganking otherwise, you're looking to have a Sated Devourer at about 22 minutes, almost entirely regardless of clear speed. Point being, I feel like that's reasonable enough that Devourer doesn't really require one to be a good jungle clear champion. Given Evelynn has a really bad first-second clear, I'm not sure she can afford to not spike immediately, but I don't think her being gank-happy is going to affect the decision as much.

(I'm being overly generous with camp clear timings, but I'm being generous in the opposite direction by assuming you never take other camps or scuttler outside dragon)

Lethologica

2015-07-09, 06:50 PM

Assuming you've had 3 kill participation since buying it, 2 dragons(with scuttlers), 3 rotations of buffs, and 10 minutes of only farming raptors and ganking otherwise, you're looking to have a Sated Devourer at about 22 minutes, almost entirely regardless of clear speed. Point being, I feel like that's reasonable enough that Devourer doesn't really require one to be a good jungle clear champion. Given Evelynn has a really bad first-second clear, I'm not sure she can afford to not spike immediately, but I don't think her being gank-happy is going to affect the decision as much.

(I'm being overly generous with camp clear timings, but I'm being generous in the opposite direction by assuming you never take other camps or scuttler outside dragon)
Both your fudge factors skew the analysis to be relatively more generous to junglers with poor clears compared to junglers with good clears, so it doesn't balance out that well. Also, you're describing a solidly winning game.

Eldariel

2015-07-09, 07:22 PM

In today's "ranked stories", EUW solo queue at its finest.
http://i.imgur.com/e8Xu6Dq.jpg

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-09, 07:42 PM

Fnatic obviously finding EU LCS too easy and decides to start with a 5k gold deficit before playing the game. H2K, unfortunately, also handicap themselves by only picking four and a half champions.

Also at what point this season does "Fnatic win." stop counting as a spoiler? :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

Siosilvar

2015-07-09, 10:20 PM

I think Devourer has potential on Diana now, too. She clears super fast and getting a passive proc in 2 autos instead of 3 is probably about as good as Runeglaive is.

-
-snip-

2 dragons in 22 minutes? Kook, have you played soloQ? If a dragon goes down before 22 minutes, you're either playing against Nunu or the game is already decided.

Mabn

2015-07-10, 01:08 AM

my computer broke and I didn't have a replacement for a month and I just played my first game on the new one and 3 seconds behind on graphics and commands was the fastest I ever got. did league become terrible in the last month or is my replacement computer garbage?

TechnOkami

2015-07-10, 01:43 AM

Godskook

2015-07-10, 02:48 AM

Both your fudge factors skew the analysis to be relatively more generous to junglers with poor clears compared to junglers with good clears, so it doesn't balance out that well.

I'm not "comparing" good clears versus poor clears at all, I'm estimating what a objective/gank focused jungler would have. Coincidentally, good clear junglers would -also- have that, but earlier, making Sated better on them, but again, I'm not trying to compare the good junglers to the others.

Also, you're describing a solidly winning game.

2 Dragons is 1 Dragon more optimistic than even, true, but that's 5 charges. The rest of the assumptions favor an even-to-poor jungler performance. I'm only assuming 2 scuttlers in 10 minutes. That's way below par. I'm assuming only 1 small camp per 100s. That's also *WAY* below par. I'm assuming your team makes 3 kills happen(you can lose the fights, as long as you get the assist flag) in 10 minutes, and again, that's at least somewhat below par, unless you're farming the jungle or controlling dragon, both of which are likely to be more lucrative than kills. Well, I am assuming full buff control, which is admittedly a bit above par, but not significantly.

Stuebi

2015-07-10, 03:34 AM

I completely forget. Might as well:

Server: EUW
Nick: Stuebi

Anyone wants to duo queue or a couple normals, add me!

Manticoran

2015-07-10, 11:13 AM

I often see a dragon go down in the first 15 minutes, so yeah a second one would be down by 22. Distinct possibility of the third going down by 24-6 even.

Kook: More I'm emphasizing that gank junglers want to have power spikes while they're ganking than that late, I think. And since you don't start stacking until after you already have the item... *shrug* Rushing ganks to try to get kills to get the item, and then if successful build Devourer and go for a scaling build, or if failure build Warrior, could be a possibility. Probably build a BotRk on top or something, then pure tank, dunno. Maybe just pure tank?

*Shrug*

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-10, 11:51 AM

Depends on the champion, as to whether they have superbly awesome base damage or abilities that synergize well with the phantom strike.

Shyvana, for example, does a lot of damage on her own, and also all three of her basic abilities synergize with sated devourer's phantom strike, meaning you could definitely get away with building full tank and still wrecking everyone's faces.

Someone like Trundle, on the other hand, is definitely auto-attack reliant for their damage, and thus can make use of the attack speed and on-hit damage devourer brings pretty well, but nothing in his basic kit synergizes with the phantom strike, so you'd only ever be double-proccing the devourer damage itself, which is probably enough, but definitely justifies getting a BoRK if you find your damage lacking for whatever reason.

Notably on a lot of champions mentioned with three-hit abilities (like Aatrox, Jax or Xin Zhao), the sated devourer improves them dramatically because you get your proc on your second hit, rather than your third.

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-10, 11:59 AM

Ekko devourer anyone?

zabbarot

2015-07-10, 12:17 PM

I just jungled Teemo with Devourer. It was interesting. First off, I learned that jungling Teemo is hard.* Second, the damage spike from proccing poison 3/2 attacks is really really nice.

Once I had built Nashor's Tooth I pretty much immediately went from deadweight** to full on Satan's Little Helper.

*people more proficient in the tricks of ranged jungling could do this better than me. I'm more used to tanks and bruisers.
**Cho'gath graciously carried my deadweight for half the game.

Godskook

2015-07-10, 12:36 PM

Kook: More I'm emphasizing that gank junglers want to have power spikes while they're ganking than that late, I think. And since you don't start stacking until after you already have the item... *shrug* Rushing ganks to try to get kills to get the item, and then if successful build Devourer and go for a scaling build, or if failure build Warrior, could be a possibility. Probably build a BotRk on top or something, then pure tank, dunno. Maybe just pure tank?

So here's the question, is Devourer's powerspike on purchase bad enough that you need to go for Warrior every time? Against your typical ADC(I use Vayne@6 with Armor seals, Flat MR Glyphs), you're sacrificing less than 27 post-resist damage on your auto+Q+E burst, and if you're really good about stutter-stepping, your DPS is only 5 damage behind with Devourer. This begins to equalize around ~10 stacks, although obviously, another target who hasn't got armor seals or does have more MR will favor Warrior more, while someone actually building armor will push the break even point down to ~5 stacks with just a cloth armor compared to the original values.

I just jungled Teemo with Devourer. It was interesting. First off, I learned that jungling Teemo is hard.* Second, the damage spike from proccing poison 3/2 attacks is really really nice.

Once I had built Nashor's Tooth I pretty much immediately went from deadweight** to full on Satan's Little Helper.

*people more proficient in the tricks of ranged jungling could do this better than me. I'm more used to tanks and bruisers.
**Cho'gath graciously carried my deadweight for half the game.

What I really want to know is how Sated interacts with Runaan's.

Manticoran

2015-07-10, 12:55 PM

Is that accounting for rune/masteries, Kook?

zabbarot

2015-07-10, 01:11 PM

What I really want to know is how Sated interacts with Runaan's.

Devourer does nothing with Runaan's. You don't get double bolts or double procs on the secondary targets. But at least the bolts apply the magic damage from Devourer like you'd expect.

ex cathedra

2015-07-10, 01:50 PM

runaan's isn't an on-hit, it's an on-attack. it's probably one of the most obvious on-attack effects in the game. it doesn't interact with devourer for the same reason that it doesn't interact with ezreal q or any other number of abilities.

Godskook

2015-07-10, 01:57 PM

Is that accounting for rune/masteries, Kook?

Admittedly no. This is what I got:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tnip5Zxw2btCgcFSiRLofmTGTP3E8mWrBo3F-rLtlZQ/edit?usp=sharing

runaan's isn't an on-hit, it's an on-attack. it's probably one of the most obvious on-attack effects in the game. it doesn't interact with devourer for the same reason that it doesn't interact with ezreal q or any other number of abilities.

What about this:

So, what it's actually doing is issuing a damage event with type "ATTACK" and damage amount of 0.
If something would occur because you attack, it's the same thing except there's no animation (the wolf is just attached flavor, it doesn't actually exist for as far as the gameplay is concerned) and there's no starting damage.

This is basically what Shyvana does with her Q, except her Q has an amount greater than 0 on it.

Also, some things can be forcibly excluded from triggering (though this is rare).

leads you to believe that "on-attacks" don't trigger? My best reading of Reina's description implies the exact opposite of what you're saying, hence my question.

Additionally, even if you're 100% correct about that part of the interaction, how does RH and Sated interact as concerns your 3rd+ attack? Your first attack obviously doesn't proc the sated event. Your second obviously does. Do the RH bolts on your normal second attack stack your timer such that you now proc sated on every attack? That's not obvious from any reading of anything I've seen.

TechnOkami

2015-07-10, 02:18 PM

If Skarner has Sated Devourer, does he apply his Stun Passive faster to targets through phantom Q?

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-10, 02:26 PM

Skarner needs to apply 3 stacks of AA and then use an ability to proc the stun doesn't he? In that case he would be like Xin, Aatrox, Vi, etc. And apply them completely with just 2 attacks.

Godskook

2015-07-10, 02:44 PM

Skarner needs to apply 3 stacks of AA and then use an ability to proc the stun doesn't he? In that case he would be like Xin, Aatrox, Vi, etc. And apply them completely with just 2 attacks.

3 abilities -> auto. (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Skarner)

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-10, 02:47 PM

Huh... look at that, I should have checked before posting. :smallredface:

ex cathedra

2015-07-10, 03:05 PM

What about this leads you to believe that "on-attacks" don't trigger? My best reading of Reina's description implies the exact opposite of what you're saying, hence my question.

Additionally, even if you're 100% correct about that part of the interaction, how does RH and Sated interact as concerns your 3rd+ attack? Your first attack obviously doesn't proc the sated event. Your second obviously does. Do the RH bolts on your normal second attack stack your timer such that you now proc sated on every attack? That's not obvious from any reading of anything I've seen.

hurricane and devourer are essentially the same type of effect. runaan's fires two bolts that deal on hits + half AD to two adjacent targets. devourer hits a single enemy with on hits and 0% AD. the numbers, projectile flag, and targets are different, but they're otherwise mechanically very similar. if the 'sub-attacks' of either proc further triggered on-attack effects they would recursively trigger themselves in addition to each other. reina's use of the word attack feels like it confuses the issue imo.

zabbarot

2015-07-10, 03:20 PM

So, what it's actually doing is issuing a damage event with type "ATTACK" and damage amount of 0.
If something would occur because you attack, it's the same thing except there's no animation (the wolf is just attached flavor, it doesn't actually exist for as far as the gameplay is concerned) and there's no starting damage.

This is basically what Shyvana does with her Q, except her Q has an amount greater than 0 on it.

Also, some things can be forcibly excluded from triggering (though this is rare).

Bolding mine. Perhaps Ruunan's is specifically excluded to prevent recursions. Or they're just effectively the same and inherently don't stack. Either way in game they do not interact, I've checked.

Skarners stun doesn't double for the same reason Sheen doesn't. Anything that triggers on a single attack is triggered with the actual attack and therefore consumed before the second 'ghost' attack despite them being effectively concurrent.

thracian

2015-07-10, 05:49 PM

Sated Devourer attacks do reduce Skarner's Q CD, but don't otherwise interact with him.

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-10, 09:50 PM

Godskook

2015-07-10, 10:32 PM

Does the report system takes the post-game lobby chat into account? I just finished a game and one of the players from the other team started raging and flaming HARD in the post-game lobby. I'm not sure if he was behaving like that in-game too and in the remote case he didn't do it in-game I reported him and mentioned in the report about it.

What Lyte said about it last May:

Q: So if players wait until post-game to spew racism and homophobia, and I report them, I'm only making ALL of my reports pointless?
A: Nope, if they are spewing racism in post-game chat and you report them, you are fine. Reports are for behaviors in any phase of the game. We can detect them. (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/34szvq/riot_lyte_tribunal_qa/)

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-10, 10:37 PM

Thanks, didn't know where to look for that.

Artanis

2015-07-11, 11:41 AM

*waves farewell to Kikis*

riccaru

2015-07-11, 07:02 PM

McDouggal

2015-07-11, 07:09 PM

OK, can someone explain to me why Shen is suddenly being picked in LCS. As a suppport? Like, what?

Anarion

2015-07-11, 08:03 PM

It really never ends with this game does it.

Waited through my 20 minute queue and then another few minutes to get into a game, and suddenly I have a notice that says I failed to respond to a game. Got the notification sound for that but never anything about the game being ready.

Perhaps you should wait until you've improved your connection before trying to get things back on track in LoL? I appreciate that you bear no malice, but if you're having such consistent problems, it does ruin each game for 9 other people and it seems like you may be still having troubles or at least not paying as much attention to the client as you should be.

OK, can someone explain to me why Shen is suddenly being picked in LCS. As a suppport? Like, what?

Bunny feels that he offers adequate lane pressure and mid-late game tankiness to justify playing him, and that his global presence adds an aspect to his game that other supports aren't able to offer.

Godskook

2015-07-11, 08:05 PM

OK, can someone explain to me why Shen is suddenly being picked in LCS. As a suppport? Like, what?

I really don't understand why TSM pick Shen support and Nautilus top rather than vice versa because imho, Shen's strategic power scales faster and harder than anything Nautilus brings to the team with farm, yet they're both on the team, so its not like you're changing your team's potential power.

More generally though, Shen was a season 1 "tier 2" support pick, something that was probably more respected than Pantheon or Ashe, but not quite "normal". He's got a kit that actually works reasonably as a support. Being energy-based, he's resource-less sustain-wise, with a personal shield for trading power. On top of that, his Q provides both him and his ADC with a healing effect that's quite spammable; useful for both poke and helping him claim relic charges.

On top of that, Shen's current matchups in top are more volatile than his match-ups as a support. Carry tops need to be answered with bully tops, and Shen isn't. You'd much rather have Shen support and Gnar top against Rumble, like TiP today against Dignitas.

Anarion

2015-07-11, 08:48 PM

I really don't understand why TSM pick Shen support and Nautilus top rather than vice versa because imho, Shen's strategic power scales faster and harder than anything Nautilus brings to the team with farm, yet they're both on the team, so its not like you're changing your team's potential power.

More generally though, Shen was a season 1 "tier 2" support pick, something that was probably more respected than Pantheon or Ashe, but not quite "normal". He's got a kit that actually works reasonably as a support. Being energy-based, he's resource-less sustain-wise, with a personal shield for trading power. On top of that, his Q provides both him and his ADC with a healing effect that's quite spammable; useful for both poke and helping him claim relic charges.

On top of that, Shen's current matchups in top are more volatile than his match-ups as a support. Carry tops need to be answered with bully tops, and Shen isn't. You'd much rather have Shen support and Gnar top against Rumble, like TiP today against Dignitas.

My guess is they preferred the different players on each champion. Dyrus on Shen vs. Dyrus on naut will vary somewhat in how the champ is played, even though they're both on the team. Or they may simply have disliked the lane mathup.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-11, 09:07 PM

Shen in the top lane has been proven to be quite easy to counter with camping and 3-man ganks directly on the Shen so that he can't use his ult to swing a fight, because he's already at the fight. Bot lane is more resilient to this tactic, since the TP solo laner can also join in, and many teams place jungle emphasis on their mid-bot area anyway. Shen in support adds more global pressure to the early game than Shen in the top due to the fact that every top laner carries teleport anyway. 2 > 1.

Also top Shen scales better than Support Shen, of course, since he becomes a massive splitpusher that Support Shen doesn't, but most of the time early pressure is more valued than late pressure, since getting an early lead is a very easy way to win unless you're against Fnatic. Also, a support Shen ulting to a fight in the top or mid to swing a 1v1 or 2v2 doesn't automatically give away tons of pressure, since the ADC can still hold 2v1 in the lane, especially if they're ahead, whereas a top Shen ulting to a fight in bot or mid automatically gives top a free lane for a short period.

Also also, Gravity is not exactly well known for adhering to the meta when picking their champions.

Dienekes

2015-07-11, 11:50 PM

Man I just had a game. We were stomping hard (ahead 4 towers, 2 drags, 3 kills) until the Nocturne got Devour and Youmuu's and BotRK and he became nigh unkillable. After that point we couldn't win a single teamfight, he attacked too fast and that double proc on BotRK is a killer.

TechnOkami

2015-07-12, 01:39 AM

I completely forget. Might as well:

Server: EUW
Nick: Stuebi

Anyone wants to duo queue or a couple normals, add me!

I just want to remind myself that I need to add you. I might be able to get to it tomorrow, but I'm not sure.

Antonok

2015-07-12, 03:01 AM

I just want to remind myself that I need to add you. I might be able to get to it tomorrow, but I'm not sure.

Quick! Everyone make new accounts and request them to be added to the main list! :smalltongue:

PersonMan

2015-07-12, 04:09 AM

Perhaps you should wait until you've improved your connection before trying to get things back on track in LoL? I appreciate that you bear no malice, but if you're having such consistent problems, it does ruin each game for 9 other people and it seems like you may be still having troubles or at least not paying as much attention to the client as you should be.

Based on what was said, I think he was more saying 'I waited in queue and the 'game found' popup didn't go off' and not 'I got into a game and then DCed'.

riccaru

2015-07-12, 06:54 AM

Based on what was said, I think he was more saying 'I waited in queue and the 'game found' popup didn't go off' and not 'I got into a game and then DCed'.

Mostly this, but yeah I'm just holding my breath for the east coast US servers that might come out eventually and lower my ping to something under 170 as well :smalltongue:

J-H

2015-07-12, 09:46 AM

The patch notes say Spell Vamp was changed on Will of the Ancients, but I don't see it in tooltips and didn't feel it last night in an ARAM game either.

Lethologica

2015-07-12, 10:54 AM

I just want to remind myself that I need to add you. I might be able to get to it tomorrow, but I'm not sure.
But...making this post takes only a minute less than adding him would? :smalltongue:

TechnOkami

2015-07-12, 02:04 PM

Quick! Everyone make new accounts and request them to be added to the main list! :smalltongue:
NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED, THREAD DESTRUCTION IMMINENT

But...making this post takes only a minute less than adding him would? :smalltongue:
I didn't have my laptop available to me for all of yesterday and this morning because my mom graduated and has a Master's Degree in Business Administration. I had to disassemble my computer set-up to make room for the party going. I bluntly forgot to add him to the list the first time they said they wanted to be added on, and I forget things, so sue me. :smalltongue:

thracian

2015-07-12, 05:40 PM

The patch notes say Spell Vamp was changed on Will of the Ancients, but I don't see it in tooltips and didn't feel it last night in an ARAM game either.

It changed most significantly against tanks. Also, the item description for WotA has definitely changed, so I'm not sure what you're looking at.

Godskook

2015-07-12, 05:54 PM

The patch notes say Spell Vamp was changed on Will of the Ancients, but I don't see it in tooltips and didn't feel it last night in an ARAM game either.

The value was reduced, but now ignores MR for the purpose of healing. Net result is that you heal roughly the same amount at about ~30 target-MR(after Pen); that's roughly starting MR with flat MR glyphs. What *DID* change is that against high MR targets, you heal more, and against minions, you heal -25% less. However, human perception is such that most people are not going to notice that healing "was not getting reduced" against high MR targets; its just a thing about how we notice stuff. That, and given how ARAM is minion-lite and champion-dense, it'd be *REALLY* hard to notice the effects of this change unless you're really familiar with buying WotA on good WotA users.

J-H

2015-07-12, 06:59 PM

It changed most significantly against tanks. Also, the item description for WotA has definitely changed, so I'm not sure what you're looking at.

It hadn't yesterday on NA ARAM. I guess I should have taken a screenshot.

thracian

2015-07-12, 10:07 PM

I don't know about ARAM (dislike the mode, myself) but I loaded up an SR custom game to check before posting, so as of my post it definitely was changed on NA SR customs.

TechnOkami

2015-07-13, 05:11 AM

I completely forget. Might as well:

Server: EUW
Nick: Stuebi

Anyone wants to duo queue or a couple normals, add me!

It's official. You've been added to the hit list too.

Stuebi

2015-07-13, 07:30 AM

It's official. You've been added to the hit list too.

Cheers!

I might show up on Mumble just for a little smalltalk. S'been ages since I last talked some English.

Godskook

2015-07-13, 07:42 AM

It hadn't yesterday on NA ARAM. I guess I should have taken a screenshot.

Its incredibly unlikely that they stealth-hotfixed an ARAM tooltip when there's a Zed hotfix already due to roll-out sometime soon. Also, I just checked, and as of this morning, WotA's tooltip is currently as it should be. Put together, I don't think you could've gotten the screenshot you're describing because well....its far more likely you misread the tooltip or confused Revolver's tooltip for WotA's or something.

Antonok

2015-07-13, 09:47 AM

Day 14: Still not able to play :smallsigh:

I'm almost positive my computer feels like a mouse in a lab right about now with as many tests as I've done on it.

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-15, 07:05 PM

Djinn_in_Tonic

2015-07-15, 11:41 PM

So on a whim I decided to play Sated Devourer Diana (mainly for the lulz) and I did better than expected once I actually got it; it was fun dealing around +400 magic damage every other attack. Though getting there was quite difficult, even with Diana's excellent clear.

I had a similar experience with the Ekko build I ran today for the same reason (namely, LULZ). Sated Devourer / Blade of the Ruined King / Wit's End / Frozen Mallet. I actually ended up able to duel anything on the enemy team, from their ADC to their damage-tank Volibear with his passive up. Your damage with that build is alarmingly consistent, and once the target drops low enough for your W passive to activate you simply tear things apart.

Note that I don't RECOMMEND this, but it WAS damn fun.

Duck999

2015-07-16, 06:31 AM

I played Twisted Fate juggling with sated devourer, Runaan's, Wit's end. It started slow, but picked up speed. Would sated devourer trigger Static shiv's charge up twice (give it 20 charges)?

Also, why was Riven disabled?

thracian

2015-07-16, 06:51 AM

Riven was disabled due to a bug allowing her to recall instantly. Ranked was then disabled instead because it turns out at least half the champion roster can do it one way or another.

Qwertystop

2015-07-16, 09:22 AM

...wow. Can they do it in normal games too?

Manticoran

2015-07-16, 09:24 AM

Devourer Kayle is probably the most disgusting Devourer user atm, followed by Yi and Shyvana. It's worth noting that WW isn't actually that good with it, since his ult doesn't proc on-hits one-and-a-half times over or anything due to it, since it only applies on basic attacks and as far as just basic attacks are concerned a lot of other champs do it better than WW.

A note about Kayle is that I see lots of people building her very wrong. Something like Devourer-Nashors-Deathcap-Zhonyas/Hurricane(Defense or offense? Dunno, Zhonyas might just be better)-Voidstaff is close to optimal, but I see lots of people building things like Wit's End and AD or whatnot. Remember the AP ratio on her autos is fairly insane, and her Q and W scale well with AP as well. Devourer can be thought of to have an AP ratio equal to half the AP ratio of her auto attacks, which basically means a .15 AP ratio on Devourer, which you'll note is actually the same as on Nashors. This sums to a .6 AP ratio per auto attack at a fairly fast attack speed, .45 of which is AoE. CDR boots are also remarkably effective on Kayle, if you're not running scaling CDR instead of scaling AP on your blue runes. Rune page would be something like AS reds, armor yellow, scaling CDR/AP blues, flat AP quints.

For masteries I've actually been seriously considering running 25-5-0.

Anarion

2015-07-16, 09:58 AM

Riven was disabled due to a bug allowing her to recall instantly. Ranked was then disabled instead because it turns out at least half the champion roster can do it one way or another.

I picked a good time to go on vacation.

Ninja_Grand

2015-07-16, 10:24 AM

So I have been doing fun things! Have you ever done Quinn jungle? Its rather nice. By no means meta, but to shoot into lane as a falcon of death and assassinating anyone you want is nice. Just slap a ghostblade on her, and call it a day!

Ap Varus is way too fun to be legal. It turns out that I cant adc, but someone in bot lane with Nashors is not bad. This holds true for also for Teemo.

Twich jungle is......well lets not talk about that. Just dont do it.

TechnOkami

2015-07-16, 12:55 PM

Jungle Twitch is doable. I know there's a Korean pro who makes it work. It's a lot of auto-attacking camps in the zone where they start to bounce between attacking and resetting. I think you start red buff but I don't remember too well.

Anyways, it is possible. Effectiveness is debateable, but I mean, ganking lanes without the enemy knowing is kinda boss.

Artanis

2015-07-16, 01:03 PM

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-16, 01:07 PM

Due her insane AP scaling (and the Devourer double proc) she gets more damage from straight AP items.

Artanis

2015-07-16, 01:55 PM

Due her insane AP scaling (and the Devourer double proc) she gets more damage from straight AP items.
But it...

*looks at the numbers, notices the bit about Nashor's added AP scaling, which he forgot about the first time*

...yeah, I see what you mean now. Even with Nashor's already in the mix, Wit's End effectively gives 93.333 AP worth of scaling to her E (assuming that Sated Devourer's double-proc also applies to Wit's End, which I think it does) plus the MR shred and the autoattack speed. But that may not be worth the Q & W scaling, slight advantage on E, and other goodies that one of the 100 AP items give.

I stand corrected :smallredface:

lord_khaine

2015-07-16, 02:57 PM

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-16, 03:01 PM

Is not really that Shyvana has that many on-hit effects on her kit (though to be fair she does have a fair amount), but that with her insane clearspeed she can stack the devourer fairly quickly, and due her passive she is still relatively tanky early game so she can afford to skimp on tank items at first. Secondly in the last patch they added an on-hit effect on her attacks while her W is active, which again works really well with sated devourer.

Manticoran

2015-07-16, 04:01 PM

She has on-hit damage on her W, her Q cooldown goes down every time she gets an on-hit, and her E is a 2.5% max health proc. That makes every ability but her ult(Which improves her basic abilities) effected by the devourer's extra proc.

The wisdom for running Cho'gath in the jungle is not to, because he currently builds pure AP, something along the lines of RoA -> CDR Boots -> Morello -> Deathcap -> Zhonyas -> whatyouwanttohavehere. Liandry, Rlyai, Abyssal, all can make sense as your last item to me. Even a tank item if you're feeling like it. The rest of this is fairly mandatory for playing to Cho'Gath's strengths, which unfortunately means... Well, he's not really a jungler right now. Devourer Cho'Gath is hilarious for the double E procs though.

Ninja_Grand

2015-07-16, 04:18 PM

Really? Shyvana? are her on-hit effects really that big a part of her damage?
I almost main her myself, but have mainly been building cinderhulk and BOTRK as core myself.

And on a side not regarding jungle monsters, have anyone words of wisdom regarding running Cho'gah into the jungle?

Is not really that Shyvana has that many on-hit effects on her kit (though to be fair she does have a fair amount), but that with her insane clearspeed she can stack the devourer fairly quickly, and due her passive she is still relatively tanky early game so she can afford to skimp on tank items at first. Secondly in the last patch they added an on-hit effect on her attacks while her W is active, which again works really well with sated devourer.

Bolded the parts that are key. If im running on hit Shyvana im running full offence. Devour->AS boots-> BOTRK->Wits end->frozen mallet-> cleaver

Now we add it up, just the on hit

We are runing Devour, so that 120 on the proc, BUT WAIT! I use my Q, so thats 180 magic dmg. plus 24% of health from BORTK as physical, PLUS 7.5% of max health as magic damage from the cinders, plus another 126 magic from wits end. And 3 stacks of cleaver, as BORTK gives physical dmg to the phamtom hit and burnout. SOOOOOO..... on a 1000 hit point target

401 Magic dmg, 240 physical dmg, and 3 stacks of cleaver burst.

And all your burnout, AD, and all this at insane speed.

mrcarter11

2015-07-16, 05:27 PM

Lethologica

2015-07-16, 06:11 PM

Soft spot for FH + Abyssal + Zhonya's + Deathcap + Luden's + Lucidity fullbuild on lane Cho. But I get that RoA + Lucidity + Morello's is a more natural two-item destination than anything that would lead to my build.

lord_khaine

2015-07-16, 06:55 PM

I prefer jungle cho as a full tank, if I'm gonna play it. Cinder is fun on him, the double e would be cool, but I tried it in a custom when sated first came out and it didn't work. I like to max e, just aa the camps down with decent speed. His ganks are messy since q can suck to land, but he's pretty fun regardless.

yeah that was also what i thought might be viable for him, he gets a lot out of Cinder, he got decent clear and substain, and chilling smite would make it easier for him to land his Q afterwards.

Else, as an alternative to my new jungler i were also giving Nasus or Tahm a bit of thought.

Siosilvar

2015-07-17, 03:14 AM

Ew, RoA Cho'gath. I second Lethologica's build (though with Void Staff in place of Luden's). RoA gives you... a ton of sustain and hit points, both of which you have more than enough of in-kit.

Manticoran

2015-07-17, 08:00 AM

*Shrug* Tell that to Alex Ich and Bjergerking? *Appeal to authority*

Dienekes

2015-07-17, 08:15 AM

Ew, RoA Cho'gath. I second Lethologica's build (though with Void Staff in place of Luden's). RoA gives you... a ton of sustain and hit points, both of which you have more than enough of in-kit.

Ehh, I like it, since now it gives as much AP as any other item except deathcap and seraphs, and with it there is very little chance that cho'gath can ever be pushed out of lane, so all the farm is yours. Plus, his abilities are pretty expensive, so the additional mana helps, sure your passive lets you build it back too, but I like having both.

lord_khaine

2015-07-17, 09:35 AM

*Shrug* Tell that to Alex Ich and Bjergerking? *Appeal to authority*

If they are not going into the jungle then i suspect its less relevant?

Ehh, I like it, since now it gives as much AP as any other item except deathcap and seraphs, and with it there is very little chance that cho'gath can ever be pushed out of lane, so all the farm is yours. Plus, his abilities are pretty expensive, so the additional mana helps, sure your passive lets you build it back too, but I like having both.

If your in the jungle, then the chance of being pushed out of lane is pretty small :smalltongue:

Dienekes

2015-07-17, 09:50 AM

If they are not going into the jungle then i suspect its less relevant?

If your in the jungle, then the chance of being pushed out of lane is pretty small :smalltongue:

Ah, sorry I thought we were talking about this post:
Soft spot for FH + Abyssal + Zhonya's + Deathcap + Luden's + Lucidity fullbuild on lane Cho. But I get that RoA + Lucidity + Morello's is a more natural two-item destination than anything that would lead to my build.

Which specifies lane Cho.

Manticoran

2015-07-17, 09:55 AM

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-17, 10:55 AM

When Cho mid was huge in LCS a little while back, the most common opener I saw was Morellonomicon.

Manticoran

2015-07-17, 11:26 AM

Yeah, you'd run a RoA into Morello against other bursty melee characters, or just straight Morello if the enemy was a squishy ranged where just 100-0 them was easier.

TechnOkami

2015-07-17, 11:32 AM

Is it at all possible to run Cho as an AP Jungle and do the same thing as AP Cho mid? Or is the gold deficiency too great?

Manticoran

2015-07-17, 11:44 AM

Gold deficiency is pretty bad, and he's a terribly Runeglaive user since he doesn't want to weave autos, just cast all his spells and then auto people a couple of times maybe. IF one were to build tank Cho, I would probably do something like Cinderhulk -> (If fed RoA into normal build/If not fed stack AP/Tank items).

Going into the second path, it'd probably be something with a Liandry/Rylai combo, and then maybe Abyssal? I dunno, I really feel like you need a lot of AP for running Cho'gath rather than something else to make sense. Otherwise, why not play a better Cinderhulk jungler like Sejuani, Nunu, Gragas, or Rek'sai, who all bring better pressure in one way or another, and all bring massively more mobility and utility. You also suck as a primary initiator as Cho'gath.

I find side-stepping Cho'gath Qs almost trivially easy, though, and I know a lot of people don't. He's probably a lot better as a tank at an MMR where your Q can hit consistently without someone landing another form of CC first?

Nadevoc

2015-07-17, 12:04 PM

Yeah, but I already went over why Jungle Cho is pretty heavily inoptimal, so I don't actually care. I'm the kind of player who goes "oh, this doesn't work at the top tier of play, or isn't optimal even at lower tiers" and then pretends it doesn't exist because it's not worth considering anymore. Why play Cho'Gath instead of Gragas or Rek'sai or Evelynn? It's not jungle pressure, it's not tankiness, and it's not crowd control. Cho'gath will get outperformed by all of the top tier junglers on almost all accounts, with his innate tankiness being the only point in favor of him, his lack of mobility and of scaling outside of heavy AP builds is very crippling, especially in the current meta that has so many Vayne players and other BotRK heavy ADCs or hyper carries.

Cho brings a solid clear, good tankiness, two AoE CCs on relatively short CDs, and great dragon/baron control. His base damages are pretty decent, especially when you consider the AoE/relatively short CD.

You DIDN'T already go over why jungle Cho is heavily unoptimal. You just said that he builds pure AP and left it at that. Which I'm not sure I agree with. Heck, looking at top Cho on champion.gg, his highest win % build (55% winrate) includes FH, Thornmail, and BVeil. That seems pretty tanky to me.

What does Cho bring over Gragas? Better CC and dragon/baron control. I would say he gets *slightly* edged out on tankiness/sustain, and obviously loses on mobility.

What does he bring over Rek'Sai? Again, better CC and dragon control. Magic damage threat. I would say Cho's tankier, though loses a bit on sustain.

What does he bring over Eve? Yet again, CC (he actually has some) and dragon control. Way more tankiness and sustain.

ALL you said was "He has to build AP" (which isn't true) and then summarily dismissed jungle Cho, so I don't see it as any surprise that folks are still discussing it.

Lethologica

2015-07-17, 12:10 PM

Ew, RoA Cho'gath. I second Lethologica's build (though with Void Staff in place of Luden's). RoA gives you... a ton of sustain and hit points, both of which you have more than enough of in-kit.
The thing is that all of the items in my build except FH suck as the first major item, and early FH is only useful against a small number of champions, physical tanks mostly. Against mages and magic tanks FH is pointless, against AD casters you'd rather outmatch their early offense+sustain with your own offense+sustain, against ADCs you want to maximize sustain. All of which favor RoA and Morello's over any of the items in my build for the early going--and then you don't need Frozen Heart for CDR or mana anymore, so you might as well get other items.

Manticoran

2015-07-17, 01:32 PM

Cho brings a solid clear, good tankiness, two AoE CCs on relatively short CDs, and great dragon/baron control. His base damages are pretty decent, especially when you consider the AoE/relatively short CD.

You DIDN'T already go over why jungle Cho is heavily unoptimal. You just said that he builds pure AP and left it at that. Which I'm not sure I agree with. Heck, looking at top Cho on champion.gg, his highest win % build (55% winrate) includes FH, Thornmail, and BVeil. That seems pretty tanky to me.

What does Cho bring over Gragas? Better CC and dragon/baron control. I would say he gets *slightly* edged out on tankiness/sustain, and obviously loses on mobility.

What does he bring over Rek'Sai? Again, better CC and dragon control. Magic damage threat. I would say Cho's tankier, though loses a bit on sustain.

What does he bring over Eve? Yet again, CC (he actually has some) and dragon control. Way more tankiness and sustain.

ALL you said was "He has to build AP" (which isn't true) and then summarily dismissed jungle Cho, so I don't see it as any surprise that folks are still discussing it.

If they are not going into the jungle then i suspect its less relevant?

Was responding to this. People can talk about it all they like, and I never said they shouldn't. And Eve is actually tankier than Cho' in most team fights, due to the massive amount of hp you get from your ult.

Dragon control... Is not actually something I think Cho has better than any of those. His damage, except for his finishing ability, is actually really really ****ty against something with that much hp. I'd also say that Gragas has wayyyyy better CC than Cho'gath, both in reliability and power. Gragas has a knock-up, a MASSIVE AoE/length knockback, and an AoE slow. Cho has... An AoE Silence and an AoE knockup. His strongest crowd control is usually just death.

Also, a random note that you should usually itemize to champion strengths rather than weaknesses. Itemizing to champion weaknesses just gives you a champion who isn't really fantastic at their strengths, and is kind of mediocre at their weaknesses. Building champions with clearly defined power points tend to be a lot more abusable to create points where you can win or crush your opponents.

Godskook

2015-07-17, 02:42 PM

But it...

*looks at the numbers, notices the bit about Nashor's added AP scaling, which he forgot about the first time*

...yeah, I see what you mean now. Even with Nashor's already in the mix, Wit's End effectively gives 93.333 AP worth of scaling to her E (assuming that Sated Devourer's double-proc also applies to Wit's End, which I think it does) plus the MR shred and the autoattack speed. But that may not be worth the Q & W scaling, slight advantage on E, and other goodies that one of the 100 AP items give.

I stand corrected :smallredface:

So, here's the thing, if you have Deathcap, Nashor's and spellblade, Kayle's autos have an effective .65 AP ratio, not the .45 you used from just Kayle's E and Nashor's. On top of this, Zhonya's has a notably powerful active that's hard to pass up in a build where Void/Deathcap/Nashor's are already on the buildpath.

Nadevoc

2015-07-17, 08:35 PM

Was responding to this. People can talk about it all they like, and I never said they shouldn't. And Eve is actually tankier than Cho' in most team fights, due to the massive amount of hp you get from your ult.

Dragon control... Is not actually something I think Cho has better than any of those. His damage, except for his finishing ability, is actually really really ****ty against something with that much hp. I'd also say that Gragas has wayyyyy better CC than Cho'gath, both in reliability and power. Gragas has a knock-up, a MASSIVE AoE/length knockback, and an AoE slow. Cho has... An AoE Silence and an AoE knockup. His strongest crowd control is usually just death.

Also, a random note that you should usually itemize to champion strengths rather than weaknesses. Itemizing to champion weaknesses just gives you a champion who isn't really fantastic at their strengths, and is kind of mediocre at their weaknesses. Building champions with clearly defined power points tend to be a lot more abusable to create points where you can win or crush your opponents.

I find that Cho's strength is being a massive, highly disruptive presence. Building tanky absolutely builds towards that. The CDR lets you toss out more Ruptures/Screams and the tankiness lets you wade into the thick of things where your disruption is most effective.

Outside of his ult, I don't find Gragas that disruptive. His bodyslam can easily get intercepted by the front line and the slow is... well, just a slow. And I definitely don't see Eve as tankier. I mean, if you hit 4-5 champs with your ult, you get more HP than Cho does. But I very rarely see that happen.

I've also never had issues with Cho's damage against dragon/baron.

Dienekes

2015-07-17, 10:47 PM

Aye, Cho might be less powerful at soloing dragon or sneaking it (I haven't crunched numbers, but I assume), but having the equivalent of 2 smites to your name is very nice at finishing it off quick if it's contested.

lord_khaine

2015-07-19, 12:49 PM

Yes! i think i won 3 or 4 of my relegation matches in a row, so im gold V now! :smallbiggrin:

This clearly is evidence of how many people you can place on the back of a dragon :)

Artanis

2015-07-19, 02:11 PM

So, here's the thing, if you have Deathcap, Nashor's and spellblade
Wait, Kayle uses a Sheen item too?

Godskook

2015-07-19, 02:15 PM

Wait, Kayle uses a Sheen item too?

Arcane Blade, sorry.

Siosilvar

2015-07-19, 02:26 PM

Wait, Kayle uses a Sheen item too?

She used to. Before they halved the AP ratios on her damage and gutted Lich Bane, you could get around a 3.3 AP ratio with E-auto-Q-auto without even building Nashor's. It was great fun turning E on and then obliterating the enemy's health bar, though somehow she only peaked at like a 57% win rate. Nearly every game had a Kayle, but you could never tell what lane she was in aside from "not bot".

Then they nerfed Q from 1.0 to 0.6, barely affecting her.
Then they nerfed Lich Bane from 0.75 to 0.5, and she built Hurricane instead.
Then they nerfed E from 0.4 to 0.2, and everybody stopped playing her because she was finally slightly subpar.

And now E has crept its way back up to 0.3, which means Sated Devourer makes it average 0.45 (plus Nashor's, plus Arcane Blade, plus its own on-hit damage...) and jungle Kayle is even stronger than before. Keep in mind it only takes about 0.5 AP ratio on-hit to make buying AP more effective than buying AD, and Deathcap is roughly equivalent to a crit item.

tl;dr: AP Kayle is broken and always has been.

Artanis

2015-07-19, 02:44 PM

Arcane Blade, sorry.

Ah, that makes more sense.

...yeah, it's discussions like these that are why I keep wearing out shovels so fast :smallredface:

Godskook

2015-07-19, 04:28 PM

...yeah, it's discussions like these that are why I keep wearing out shovels so fast :smallredface:

Huh? I don't follow.

Artanis

2015-07-19, 04:29 PM

Huh? I don't follow.

Because of all the holes I keep digging for myself :smalltongue:

Godskook

2015-07-19, 04:34 PM

Because of all the holes I keep digging for myself :smalltongue:

The Arcane Blade thing was my fault :P

-------------

Holy hell that game was entertaining. Amazed at how CLG held it together despite Azir's struggles in mid

Duck999

2015-07-19, 05:12 PM

I just had a great game as gnar:
There was a team fight in mid, bordering the jungle, so I ganked. Went mega quickly, ulted their entire team into a wall, w to stun them again, then e and q, then w again. I made it out with 63 health and 4 members of the other team dead. I go to turret to recall. Graves (on the other team), throws in a ward, walks into turret radius, ults me to kill me, and walks away.

Maryring

2015-07-19, 05:32 PM

Freljord rap (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLKTkC6TpF4)

Manticoran

2015-07-20, 12:51 PM

A note that Devourer Kayle and Elise both actually have .75 AP per auto ratio. .3 AP on E/passive, .15 on Nashors, .05 on the mastery adds to .5 AP ratio in on-hits per auto, and then *1.5 due to Devourer for .75 AP per auto.

Note: Other than Teemo, at .4 AP ratio per auto assuming 1 auto and 1 tick, Gnar actually has the highest AP per auto ratio at 33.33%. AP GNAR DEVOURER/NASHORS JUNGLE YOU SAY? >.> Probably not! But it'd be hilarious. You'd do basically nothing in Mega Gnar except your crowd control, and I don't think you're survivable enough in miniGnar.

Other funny AP/Devourer possible champions: Diana(28% AP per auto), Ekko(23%, but only first couple autos, but 2% of missing health per 100 AP ratio once they're under 30, so REALLY good at executing enemies.), Fizz(30%), Cho'gath(30%), and Jax(23%, but several auto resets and lots of free stats).

Godskook

2015-07-20, 02:23 PM

A note that Devourer Kayle and Elise both actually have .75 AP per auto ratio. .3 AP on E/passive, .15 on Nashors, .05 on the mastery adds to .5 AP ratio in on-hits per auto, and then *1.5 due to Devourer for .75 AP per auto.

Completely not relevant when comparing their ratios to on-hits like Wit's End who also equally benefit from Devourer's multiplier(and thus, the multiplier cancels out because math). A multiplier you missed that doesn't factor out is Deathcap's, which bumps Kayle up to a .675 AP ratio(or 1.0125 if you bring Devourer's multiplier back in).

Manticoran

2015-07-20, 03:08 PM

lord_khaine

2015-07-20, 05:19 PM

So, has anyone experience/thoughts on running Tahn in either the jungle or in top?

Dienekes

2015-07-20, 05:39 PM

So, has anyone experience/thoughts on running Tahn in either the jungle or in top?

I've faced Tahn top twice now, so far I haven't been impressed. Jungle Tahn I'm a bit more interested in since his grey health shield thing can make a tower dive viable at earlier levels, but I'm wary that his need to get 3 hits before he can really do anything to the character he's ganking can make him pretty ineffectual against any character with a half decent escape.

lord_khaine

2015-07-20, 06:55 PM

I've faced Tahn top twice now, so far I haven't been impressed. Jungle Tahn I'm a bit more interested in since his grey health shield thing can make a tower dive viable at earlier levels, but I'm wary that his need to get 3 hits before he can really do anything to the character he's ganking can make him pretty ineffectual against any character with a half decent escape.

Hmm.. he still have more CC than Shyvanna, and i have pretty well with her just from the Stalkers blade slow.

What sort of cooldown is his tongue on, and doesnt it apply a slow?

Ivellius

2015-07-20, 08:15 PM

So, has anyone experience/thoughts on running Tahn in either the jungle or in top?

Yeah, I don't think he's actually great at top lane, but it's doable. I had an S+ on the only game I've done him top, for what it's worth, but I'm not sure that what he brings is nearly as useful there as in other places on the map. (He's still a fairly fun champion, though, and I enjoy playing him.)

Jungle feels a bit better to me. His Q is fairly low cooldown (and slows as you noted), but if you can you'd probably rather save it until you get 3 passive stacks instead of using it to lead--Stun into Devour is really strong. Jungling him also makes more use of his ult mobility than top lane's island. Once you start putting ranks into his passive, his damage improves quite a bit. I like jungling champs, though, so I'm biased toward that role.

One Step Two

2015-07-20, 08:17 PM

So, has anyone experience/thoughts on running Tahn in either the jungle or in top?

I've been playing with a friend of mine who uses Jungle Tahn, and in his words, "You really want to catch them from behind." He can lay the hurt down pretty damn well, but because he is relying on 3 hits to swallow people, you can't just run up to them and reliably do it before they can escape. That said, if you do swallow them it's garunteed to do ~30% of their HP, so it's an awesome execute.
Also, some people underestimate the range of his swallow>spit when he uses it on a minion, and has secured quite a few kills on champs trying to hide under tower on low HP.
Power spike definetly comes in at 6th with the passive on his ult, Cinderhulk and HP stacking pays off pretty well, especially when combined with items like Liandry's torment to shred peoples HP down quite nicely.

His Utility as a Jungler is amazing too. His ability to save people being ganked by running in, swallowing a low HP teammate, and run with Thick Skin, and deny enemy plays is godlike. Or if you can combo-hit and swallow the enemy Jungler, to even the odds once more.

Oh, and his farm is hilarious, we figured out that going Gromp > Blue Buff, you can swallow Gromp before he dies, and spit it at Blue Buff Camp to finish gromp and clear faster is great fun.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-20, 08:51 PM

Darien (http://www.probuilds.net/darien), at least, seems to be a little bit of a believer.

Renegade Paladin

2015-07-20, 09:33 PM

Nearly every game had a Kayle, but you could never tell what lane she was in aside from "not bot".
I'm like Jesus' Swiss Army knife; I'm five different banes
Of the evils of Runeterra in the jungle and in all the lanes.
I'm DPS, I'm support, I'm a pusher, I'm a farmer,
I'm the Rapture on wings, and in battle armor. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Of_BdqAog#t=3m32s)

:smallcool:

(Support Kayle was actually pretty good with the heal, slow, and invulnerability, though not top tier, and ADC Kayle is hilarious. :smalltongue: Bring back One For All!)

lord_khaine

2015-07-21, 05:50 AM

I've been playing with a friend of mine who uses Jungle Tahn, and in his words, "You really want to catch them from behind." He can lay the hurt down pretty damn well, but because he is relying on 3 hits to swallow people, you can't just run up to them and reliably do it before they can escape. That said, if you do swallow them it's garunteed to do ~30% of their HP, so it's an awesome execute.
Also, some people underestimate the range of his swallow>spit when he uses it on a minion, and has secured quite a few kills on champs trying to hide under tower on low HP.
Power spike definetly comes in at 6th with the passive on his ult, Cinderhulk and HP stacking pays off pretty well, especially when combined with items like Liandry's torment to shred peoples HP down quite nicely.

His Utility as a Jungler is amazing too. His ability to save people being ganked by running in, swallowing a low HP teammate, and run with Thick Skin, and deny enemy plays is godlike. Or if you can combo-hit and swallow the enemy Jungler, to even the odds once more.

Oh, and his farm is hilarious, we figured out that going Gromp > Blue Buff, you can swallow Gromp before he dies, and spit it at Blue Buff Camp to finish gromp and clear faster is great fun.

Thats certainly a very convincing argument for the fat catfish guy, i take it jungle runes would be something along attack speed, since it both helps stack hits and synergize with his passive. ?

Manticoran

2015-07-21, 09:36 AM

I've been running Smite/TP top to pretty good effect. Running AS reds/quints, scaling armor yellows and scaling MR blues. Survive initial laning stage, and then if anyone tries to outright fight you past 6 you generally win due to your damage scaling on HP and just buying Cinderhulk -> Defensive stats.

Not actually sure it's worth taking Smite there, but you ARE basically unkillable in team fights with Cinderhulk defensive scaling and two health bars. Remember to always pop your E at the last possible second, you NEVER benefit from popping it early.

I was focusing Q followed by E, with W last as it doesn't actually increase damage and usually if I'm eating an ally I want to spit them out before 3 seconds are up anyway.

lord_khaine

2015-07-21, 10:22 AM

Thanks for the advice, it does sound interesting to try, though i have bad experiences myself with missing Flash in the top lane, always ends up regretting it.

Godskook

2015-07-21, 11:05 AM

I tend to think of Deathcap as a multiplier to the number rather than to the ratio, but obviously I suppose you can do either. But then you'd have to take the ratio out of the total amount of AP if you're ever going to actually calculate damage per swing at any given point of the build. I think I'd much prefer to just leave it at .75 AP ratio.

Depends on the context. The .675 ratio is the simplest for comparing AP items(when you have Nashor's and Deathcap) to Wit's End, while the .75 ratio is better for DPS calculations.

Also, yeah, I guess you don't care about that, except that... Uhm... You can still totally compare ~60 damage per hit to the same amount of benefit you get from 80 AP w/ this build.

You could, but there's no reason to because it just takes more effort.

Which is a lot more relevant than comparing the amounts without devourer I think?

I think knowing "this is how much damage I do per hit" and then doubling it for autos that trigger sated is more relevant than having to deal with multiplying by 2/3s or 4/3s to figure out how much I deal per auto, especially because the former is true regardless of if you've gotten Sated up and running yet or not.

Also .75 is a lot cleaner to do the math for than .65 as far as break-even points.

Ok. Do this math: What's the increase in damage from buying Zhonya's over Wit's End in a build that has Nashor's and Deathcap?

My way: (.675*100) - 42 = 25.5 extra on-hit damage

Your way: 100*1.35*.75 - 42*.75 = 38.25 extra average damage per attack

My way gets you to an answer in 2 calculations, one of which can be trivialized if you don't care about precision. Your way requires 4 calculations, and since none of the numbers are unprocessed, its harder to shortcut the subtraction. Really not seeing your way being any cleaner than mine in the context we've been talking about.

Recaiden

2015-07-21, 11:08 AM

Manti's way gives you a useable answer.

Godskook

2015-07-21, 11:14 AM

Manti's way gives you a useable answer.

So does mine. I personally find my method more usable, but both are usable.

Recaiden

2015-07-21, 11:24 AM

I didn't say anything about the usability of the method.

Godskook

2015-07-21, 11:49 AM

I didn't say anything about the usability of the method.

The answer too.

thracian

2015-07-21, 12:15 PM

I find extra damage per hit to be more useful than average extra damage per attack. Other on-hit abilities give per hit values, which leads to easier direct comparisons without having to multiply by 1.5 all the time.

Manticoran

2015-07-21, 12:24 PM

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-21, 01:56 PM

So Fiora got a gameplay update (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-update/champion-update-fiora).

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-21, 01:58 PM

My baby.

I'll never play another top laner (until the Poppy update maybe).

Godskook

2015-07-21, 02:35 PM

Yeah, but it means you can't compare building AD items. How do the AD builds w/ Bloodthirster, Hurricane, BotRK fare against the Wit's End builds? Probably poorly, but maybe not for some champions, and I'd prefer to keep my notation the same for everyone.

Hurricane compares to AP or on-hit items easier with my method, since the DPS on secondary bolts is completely irrelevant to the sated proc, apparently, otherwise, it's just a ball of AS, and its easier to factor in the sated multiplier there than anywhere else in the calculation.

As for AD builds, who was talking about AD builds that this is suddenly a factor? You weren't, I wasn't, Artanis wasn't. Also, if you factor deathcap and the sated multiplier into Kayle's Ratio, she tops out at 1.0125 AP ratio, meaning she deals more damage per point of raw AP than she does per point of raw AD. Since AD and AP on most items are roughly equivalent these days(80-100 AP versus 80 AD), you're mostly losing out on crit-based multipliers(if you build IE, PD or Shiv) and lifesteal, but you're gaining good heal scaling, easier CDR access, having Zhonya's, and targeting a weaker defense stat(targeting MR should mean damage increase in almost all cases between MR's lower base(past early levels) and item values, AS slows are on armor items, and Thornmail doesn't return magic damage). Personally, I'd rather pull out a spreadsheet at that point.

Eldariel

2015-07-21, 02:40 PM

Hm, now this looks like a grand duelist. I like what they did with this update, definitely cool. Particularly the bit about parrying a hard CC ability with proper timing, that's something I feel melee carries kinda need.

Godskook

2015-07-21, 02:44 PM

So Fiora got a gameplay update (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-update/champion-update-fiora).

The new hotness. Wow. I wonder where this will slot her in terms of team role, cause she's got some new and interesting interactions.

Qwertystop

2015-07-21, 02:47 PM

Huh... Depending on the E cooldown, it might actually incentivise building crit damage without bothering with crit chance. That'll be odd.

Landis963

2015-07-21, 02:54 PM

Does the new passive auto-crit when you hit the glowing targets? Or is it simply bonus true damage? Because the former would justify a crit-damage-only build all on its lonesome, it seems like.

Manticoran

2015-07-21, 03:05 PM

Anarion

2015-07-21, 04:17 PM

Nope, just bonus true damage. And very unlikely QWERTY, since you'd have to dump points into crit damage runes, and flat AD or arpen are likely still wayyyy better regardless due to all of the other damage thing you'll be doing that don't involve the second hit of your E. Possible IE is a decent buy, but then likely would other crit items too, so I doubt we'll see a focus on crit damage anywhere.

There's a chance that something like Hydra into IE might be a good start for her. Since she's most advantaged maneuvering around the target and weaving autos in between her abilities, I don't see attack speed as a powerful stat for her, meaning that an IE without either Shiv or PD could make sense in combination with her guaranteed crit.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-21, 05:10 PM

Attack Speed, maybe not, Movement Speed definitely. All three zeal items help with this, especially considering unique passives from PD or Phage. Plus, using your attack speed to weave in autos while kiting around people to hit their weakspots is probably going to be a good thing.

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-21, 05:15 PM

Triforce into IE maybe? Though the PD ability to ignore unit collision will be really useful to proc her passive and Ultimate.

Slayn82

2015-07-21, 05:23 PM

I guess Fiora's kit could work well together with poke supports, specially Velkoz and Brand with Rylai's for additional true/ percent damage on enemy tank frontline. Seeing the Grand Challenge going off will be an obvious "prepare to nuke target" signal, and the healing area looks huge, like Janna's. Also the change on spirit visage increases its healing effects, a small plus for the frontline.

Edit: surrender@20 has this on Grand Challenge:

"If Fiora hits all 4 Vitals in 8 seconds or if the target dies after she has hit at least one, Fiora and her allies in the area are healed for 80/110/140 (+.6 AD) each second for 5 seconds."

So now she is the best healer around? I guess she overpower people so hard it increases team spirits/ will to fight / morale.300 AD will be 320 per sec. Or 1600 HP total.

Ionbound

2015-07-21, 06:53 PM

Ohmigod, guys...The day we'd never thought would come...Has come!

LORE! REAL, ACTUAL LORE!! (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/bilgewater/#story-1)

Recaiden

2015-07-21, 07:15 PM

A champion is being relaunched. Doesn't count.

Also too much TF. The gangplank part was pretty fun though.

Anarion

2015-07-21, 07:21 PM

A champion is being relaunched. Doesn't count.

There were words, written in-character that took more than a page. It counts.

Lethologica

2015-07-21, 08:08 PM

First lore since Lissandra. Non-zero is better than zero.

Call it two steps up on the writing front since then. Several steps to go. But then, it's a challenging environment.

I wonder how this bottom-up approach to lore creation will pan out over the next couple release cycles. Looks like we're region-hopping for now.

Slayn82

2015-07-21, 08:14 PM

What about Azir/Shurima?

Lethologica

2015-07-21, 09:16 PM

What about Azir/Shurima?
Oh, right, forgot about that as it was during my hiatus. Nice animation, I guess, and nice outline-writing.

Landis963

2015-07-21, 09:25 PM

This is the sort of thing that gets one really invested in your game, Riot. Moar pls.

I wish I had the time/money to really back that up, help communicate that THIS IS WHAT WE WANT, but still.

Ionbound

2015-07-21, 09:29 PM

I mean, Reina reads this. Maybe she can say to someone 'Hey, the community I'm a part of wants more lore stuff' to someone with the sway to actually get it done.

Landis963

2015-07-21, 10:13 PM

I mean, Reina reads this. Maybe she can say to someone 'Hey, the community I'm a part of wants more lore stuff' to someone with the sway to actually get it done.

But I know I'm not doing all I can to communicate that to more sources besides our dear Riot Reina Reinboom here. I can jaw and pen all I want about how I like the lore stuff (and if she can pass on how the Burning Tides event, the Shurima event, Jinx's debut among others were exciting, that's great), but that kinda seems hollow when I'm not actually giving League any support but moral. (I am watching the ads on the YouTube channel, but that's not nearly enough)

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-21, 10:56 PM

I mean, Reina reads this. Maybe she can say to someone 'Hey, the community I'm a part of wants more lore stuff' to someone with the sway to actually get it done.

I don't think they're exactly sitting on their asses, here. What we're seeing now is the result of a lot of work and progress which I'm sure started months ago, and is continuing to be worked on now, for some more lore stuff coming down the line. Recently we've gotten a whole bunch of comics, champion release videos, writing and music that's all rich with lore and tells great stories about the characters and places of this setting, and every time I've seen an outpouring of negative sentiment and complaint about how lazy the lore team is and how they should have been doing "more of this" when, uh, quite clearly they are.

To be honest, if I were on the lore team at Riot, I probably would have already quit in disgust. I find the "omg lore team does nothing!!11!!1" meme tiresome at best, and outright rude and toxic at worst.

This isn't to say that the lore team should be immune to or insulated from criticism, but the frequency and extent to which the community bashes them is pretty gross, in my opinion.

mrcarter11

2015-07-21, 11:30 PM

Something along the lines of "Thick skin required, need not apply otherwise" is probably the mantra of the lore department. For good reason, they are responsible for the lore of one of the most popular games in the world. They need to be on their A game. The problems are many however. First off, what does the lore department actually do? I'm under the impression their job should mostly be writing the lore. The lore that was received today, the actual writing of that should have taken less than 2 weeks. Now with the rest of the days coming, we may end up with 2-3 months worth of writing, but that's the output of a single person. They are supposed to have a team of writers and yet we go months without anything. We saw lore for events and released that's it. The videos/pictures/ etc, that stuff could take a lot longer to make, but the actual writing shouldn't take nearly as long, so why aren't we seeing more? That's my big question. I'm of course glossing over some facts, but I still feel that the output of lore we get is incredibly small. The presentations for it are awesome yeah, but the lore itself, half the time it isn't even that great. Look at Tahm in the client and pull up his lore section. If that's all they feel the need to put forward for actual written lore, then the lore team is just a bad joke.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-22, 12:01 AM

Landis963

2015-07-22, 12:24 AM

*Lux x Fiora hate-crush train full steam ahead choo chooooo.

In your mind, has Lux or has Lux not broken up with Ezreal before your ship goes full steam, as it were?

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-22, 12:33 AM

No break-ups; Lux and Fiora aren't in a relationship, just a highly aggressive and charged rivalry that's partially fueled by mutual lust.

Lethologica

2015-07-22, 12:35 AM

Even the writing isn't "just writing" because this isn't just a little story about TF and Graves and Gangplank. It's (hopefully) one leg of a project to rationalize the lore without its original organizing principle. (And notice that there are additional parts to be released, so presumably more of Bilgewater has been written in here.)

mrcarter11

2015-07-22, 12:37 AM

I consider "Lore = Writing" to be a pretty shallow approach. Of course, since I'm not part of the team, I know exactly as much about what the Lore Team actually does as you do (basically nothing), but I imagine that they would actually be pretty involved with the videos and comics that we've been receiving, to see it all matches up with the story they're trying to tell. That's discounting as well the fact that a lot of the writing they may have done so far has been largely behind the scenes - actually tracking down and chiseling out the details of the setting, creating style guides, and writing history in ways and forms and notes that can't be shown to us yet. Time consuming, but with no immediate or obvious payoff, unless they were to just randomly dump it all on us as an encyclopedia (which I would find pretty tiresome to dig through, personally).

I actually do appreciate that we have had more varied content in terms of lore. Writing is nice, but I appreciate not having to read a novel with every champion release. I actually haven't read much of the journal of justice, or many of the older champion bios because I found them quite dull, and yet I consider myself to be pretty heavily invested in the lore. I like seeing the glimpses of character we see through the media we get, I love analyzing and theorizing and discussing about certain minutiae of the setting or character motivations, and I'm a pretty avid crack-shipper*. :smallwink: There's a lot of avenues to storytelling, and just because you in particular don't like what's going on, possibly because it's been very light on text and more about creating atmosphere and utilizing visual and aural storytelling, doesn't mean it's bad, or that the lore team isn't doing enough work.

Thick skin definitely a required asset to work in a company as big and as in the spotlight as much as Riot, but that doesn't give us, the community, a free hand to be toxic or rude for no good reason. That's just basic human courtesy, people. There's a lot of commentary out there and in this thread that's very valuable and good criticism, and even if it's negative, I support it 100% if it says something valid and useful. But there's also a lot of commentary that's just pointless, toxic whinging, and it's gotten kind of overbearing and unnecessarily common over time, from my perspective.

*Lux x Fiora hate-crush train full steam ahead choo chooooo.

My biggest issue with your stance, is that they've had time to unveil things. They've had a lot of time as a matter of fact and we still have very little to show for it. I at one time did defend their lore team, that they needed time to get everything together, to form a cohesive settings, etc but we've seen very very little to suggest that they have said setting. We get information in such small scrapes that at this rate, they'll still be trying to cover the setting by the time League as a game is done. **** a monthly lore release would be incredible. Not a ton of information but enough to entertain readers for an hour or so. If they as a team can't get an hours worth of setting/character lore written as a month, then Riot needs to hire better writers. We gave them time, we gave them trust, they have mostly failed to deliver with that time and trust.

Also I would find it very awkward if their core writing team was heavily involved with the videos and whatnot. Though that could just be me.

It's not that I don't like what we get, I actually tend to like the lore we do get. We just don't get any real amount of it. They've created almost nothing for fans to lash onto.

Godskook

2015-07-22, 12:40 AM

The problems are many however.

The usual first problem I see most people having in a customer-facing job is that customers are unreasonable, and are *INCREDIBLY* willing to act like they are being reasonable despite this and judge the employee as misbehaving. Not all customers, and hell, probably not even most, but it certainly seems like most of the ones who bother to say anything negative fit this category.

First off, what does the lore department actually do? I'm under the impression their job should mostly be writing the lore.

Their job is probably 10x more complicated than a DM's job towards building a D&D campaign that stretches from level 1-20 without an appropriate setting, but with predefined NPCs littered everywhere that are supposed to 'fit' in roughly particular spots *SO YOU BETTER DO IT RIGHT, RIOT*. I can't remember if you've played tabletops or not, but if you haven't, I'm sure there's an entire subforum up above that'll tell you that such efforts take a good deal of work.

For comparison, it has taken George RR Martin 20 years to write his first 5 books of GoT, and he's slowing down.

The lore that was received today, the actual writing of that should have taken less than 2 weeks.

Says who?

Look at Tahm in the client and pull up his lore section. If that's all they feel the need to put forward for actual written lore, then the lore team is just a bad joke.

Its not, they've said its not, and at this point, bringing that up is not only ignoring them having said it, but also having proved that they're willing to put forward more than that for actual written lore(like....you did see the lore site they just put up that sparked this whole conversation, right? I'm assuming you did and are just being hyperbolic, but if not, I don't want to run too far on a false assumption).

Its just that they believe that section is not for the kind of lore you want that section to have.

mrcarter11

2015-07-22, 01:13 AM

The usual first problem I see most people having in a customer-facing job is that customers are unreasonable, and are *INCREDIBLY* willing to act like they are being reasonable despite this and judge the employee as misbehaving. Not all customers, and hell, probably not even most, but it certainly seems like most of the ones who bother to say anything negative fit this category.

Their job is probably 10x more complicated than a DM's job towards building a D&D campaign that stretches from level 1-20 without an appropriate setting, but with predefined NPCs littered everywhere that are supposed to 'fit' in roughly particular spots *SO YOU BETTER DO IT RIGHT, RIOT*. I can't remember if you've played tabletops or not, but if you haven't, I'm sure there's an entire subforum up above that'll tell you that such efforts take a good deal of work.

For comparison, it has taken George RR Martin 20 years to write his first 5 books of GoT, and he's slowing down.

Says who?

Its not, they've said its not, and at this point, bringing that up is not only ignoring them having said it, but also having proved that they're willing to put forward more than that for actual written lore(like....you did see the lore site they just put up that sparked this whole conversation, right? I'm assuming you did and are just being hyperbolic, but if not, I don't want to run too far on a false assumption).

Its just that they believe that section is not for the kind of lore you want that section to have.

The original giant **** up of lore that I remember was a few months after the Lissandra release when they said that they had to break away from the idea of the IoJ since it stopped them from being able to tell the stories they wanted to tell. That was fine. That was roughly 2 years ago. We haven't gotten much at all in the way of lore since then. A few region based lore events doesn't hold up against roughly two years. I think wanting more after getting so little for so long is pretty reasonable.

I do play tabletops and I have done world building, some extensive world building actually. That was done in my free time and took about a year and half to design what I had to and write everything. In comparison, I feel them having the regions already created and a lot of the "important" npc's already created makes it easier. Starting from something is a lot easier than starting from nothing. And you won't find many authors who feel GRRM should need the amount of time he has taken to write what he has. Honestly the split books weren't good, they were an example of an author living off the coattails of what he already wrote.

Where did they say they intended to further Tahm's lore. Until more is added, it would appear that they's all they feel the need to put up. They haven't put forth more than that for the actual written lore. That is the only written lore I'm aware of in client that is about Tahm.

TechnOkami

2015-07-22, 02:42 AM

I've just sat down to read the new Lore stint.

I'll be frank, I'm really happy with it.

It's a start, and I hope it continues in other forms unrelated to the Bilgewater Murder Bridge.

Edit: a fun thing to think about is that Gangplank's Pirate Crew, The Jagged Hooks, have a very obvious hook motif. Tahm has a hook sitting in the red sash around his hat.

PhantomFox

2015-07-22, 06:14 AM

From what I hear part of the delay on lore is a tech problem hooking the client to the website for the longer stories.

lord_khaine

2015-07-22, 06:25 AM

The original giant **** up of lore that I remember was a few months after the Lissandra release when they said that they had to break away from the idea of the IoJ since it stopped them from being able to tell the stories they wanted to tell. That was fine. That was roughly 2 years ago. We haven't gotten much at all in the way of lore since then. A few region based lore events doesn't hold up against roughly two years. I think wanting more after getting so little for so long is pretty reasonable.

yeah i kinda agree, to start with i were personally really annoyed, since i liked the old version of the IoJ, as well as the journals that contained so many interesting tidbids, making it look like a living world as we could read about Gragas busting up a bar with jax.
And while i think its acceptable that they move away from that, then i dont think the same can excuse how they have really not given us anything solid in replacement.
What we know now of the world or why there are fights is almost non-existant.

Recaiden

2015-07-22, 07:34 AM

It's a start, and I hope it continues in other forms unrelated to the Bilgewater Murder Bridge.

This pretty well expresses what I mean.
They've shown they're capable of writing lore (much as I dislike the direction of it), and expressing lore non-verbally, but for years it's always, always, been tied to the release of some in-game thing.
And I don't think that's going to change.

Ivellius

2015-07-22, 07:39 AM

To be honest, if I were on the lore team at Riot, I probably would have already quit in disgust. I find the "omg lore team does nothing!!11!!1" meme tiresome at best, and outright rude and toxic at worst.

Maybe if they'd quit we'd get people who could be bothered to retcon the League of Legends out of League of Legends after it was announced.

This pretty well expresses what I mean.
They've shown they're capable of writing lore (much as I dislike the direction of it), and expressing lore non-verbally, but for years it's always, always, been tied to the release of some in-game thing.

This is a good summary of my feelings as well.

Maryring

2015-07-22, 08:29 AM

This lore is... okay. It's extremely cliched but it's a decently written cliche. And it's good to learn more about Bilgewater. It's way easy to forget about that city state. Unfortunately, the lore doesn't really leave much to discuss or wonder about, since it didn't introduce anything actually *new* to the lore. It was an elaboration on Gangplank, TF and Graves as characters, but their actual characterisation didn't grow unfortunately. Which means, this still isn't what I'm hoping for from the Lore team.

For comparison, it has taken George RR Martin 20 years to write his first 5 books of GoT, and he's slowing down.

And it took Rowling seven years to write seven books. I have no idea how large the Lore team is. If they've got a tiny handful doing all the work, or if they're split up with some people doing the webcode, some doing the art and some doing the writing. But I can understand those who feel that Riot isn't putting out nearly enough of a quantity of lore. I mean, I wrote something longer than the Bilgewater act one just now, and it took me one evening of being bored. The actual amount of written content is minuscule.

Godskook

2015-07-22, 08:55 AM

The original giant **** up of lore that I remember was a few months after the Lissandra release when they said that they had to break away from the idea of the IoJ since it stopped them from being able to tell the stories they wanted to tell. That was fine.

I feel like you're a tad conflicted on that subject...

That was roughly 2 years ago. We haven't gotten much at all in the way of lore since then. A few region based lore events doesn't hold up against roughly two years. I think wanting more after getting so little for so long is pretty reasonable.

Ripping out the primary driving motivation of an *ENTIRE WORLD* tends to leave whatever is left in ruins until you rehash and reweave it all back together. I had a campaign world in which everything had revolved around containing a Tarrasque for the past ~100 years or so. If I suddenly decided that there was no Tarrasque in that world, the landscape would literally change. I'd have kingdoms in places who's history was forgotten, I'd have civilizations that weren't displaced. Personally, I agree with the lore team, the IoW had to go, but I also realize that removing it was going to take a massive amount of time.

Starting from something is a lot easier than starting from nothing.

I disagree. Starting halfway done and then finishing might be easier than starting from nothing, but starting halfway to an undesired result and the course-correcting is, imho, harder and longer than starting from nothing.

And you won't find many authors who feel GRRM should need the amount of time he has taken to write what he has. Honestly the split books weren't good, they were an example of an author living off the coattails of what he already wrote.

We don't ask sheep how long it should take the Lion to do things.

Where did they say they intended to further Tahm's lore. Until more is added, it would appear that they's all they feel the need to put up. They haven't put forth more than that for the actual written lore. That is the only written lore I'm aware of in client that is about Tahm.

1. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/BmlIQTTn-lores-becoming-short

2.You're trying to derive Riot's Lore team's intentions from what they've been willing to release so far. I think that's unfair on its face, but you're also ignoring the Shurima event, Ekko and Udyr's comics, the tease work they've done in the interim. Hell, you're ignoring Tahm's video lore. Forgot about that. Tahm has his own video lore, y'know?

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-22, 08:57 AM

And it took Rowling seven years to write seven books.

Lol what. The release dates are stretched across 10 years, so we're looking at something approaching that time span if not longer for writing, and Harry Potter as an entire series is already much shorter by page count, and much, much less dense than A Song of Ice and Fire has been so far.

zabbarot

2015-07-22, 09:01 AM

There have been a few game franchises that have had books or comics written to run alongside (Blizzard mostly, but a few others) I don't know how popular those books were though. Despite being a consumer of those games I never went out of my way to get the books.

Would books be a big draw for league? Would novels or comics sate the thirst for lore if they could find some good authors to trust with it?

Maryring

2015-07-22, 09:17 AM

Lol what. The release dates are stretched across 10 years, so we're looking at something approaching that time span if not longer for writing, and Harry Potter as an entire series is already much shorter by page count, and much, much less dense than A Song of Ice and Fire has been so far.

They were released over seven years where I'm from, but okay. It does not change my original point in that writing can be efficient. Rowling managed to create a fluid, living world in a shorter span of time than what was presented.

As for using extra-material to tell a story, it's been done well by Sting and their Dept Heaven series. Touhou has a barebones story, with very little actual written material within the game, and most of that being accessible from mangas. It still has a very thriving world because the games does a decent job of presenting the characters that live in the world, and manages to draw connecting lines between the games. Nothing really happens in a vacuum, which has been one of the main points that the LoL lore has been struggling with.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-22, 09:39 AM

Just because it can be doesn't mean that it should be. Rowling created an incredibly entertaining and engaging story at the pace of around 2 years/book (for the later books) and she's an awesome mystery writer with a really tight, easy to read writing style, but her world building is... not incredibly robust. When you look at it, the actual setting and background HP has more holes in it than a strainer. That was used to hold a grenade. Which means, technically, that it has less holes in it now because it's all one giant hole. Whatever.

I'd gladly accept a longer period of time span for a more robust and well-thought out, consistent lore. Whether we're actually getting that is up for debate, of course, and while I deeply enjoy what we've gotten so far, I'm not going to claim that it's Tolkien levels of depth just yet. People continue to point out that what we've gotten in literal word counts is very, very small, but I consider word count a fantastically bad metric for judging the time and effort put into, especially when we've gotten so much in terms of atmospheric and non-written content.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but yeah, I could write something longer than Bilgewater Act One in less than an evening too. And it would be ass. Literal, actual ass. And I wouldn't have been able to map out the cultural landscape of a city, including political factions, religion, atmosphere and history at the same time. It would have just been ass.

Godskook

2015-07-22, 10:17 AM

They were released over seven years where I'm from, but okay. It does not change my original point in that writing can be efficient. Rowling managed to create a fluid, living world in a shorter span of time than what was presented.

Rowling's world is much smaller than Martin's with fewer intricacies. That's not to disparage it, it just means it wasn't as hard to build. And according Rowling's wiki, the first book was completed in '95 and the last was released in '07. That's 12 years without the time taken on the first book. Also, while Rowling created 7 books and Martin only 5 so far, if you go by page-count, Martin is actually ahead by 50 pages, based on quickly accessible US Edition page counts for both that I could find. So that's 12+ years to create about the same amount of pages as Martin, but in an easier world setting. That really reads as "similar" to me.

As for using extra-material to tell a story, it's been done well by Sting and their Dept Heaven series. Touhou has a barebones story, with very little actual written material within the game, and most of that being accessible from mangas. It still has a very thriving world because the games does a decent job of presenting the characters that live in the world, and manages to draw connecting lines between the games. Nothing really happens in a vacuum, which has been one of the main points that the LoL lore has been struggling with.

I've read this paragraph 4 times through, and for the life of me, I can't find your point. My best guess is that you seem to be implying that Riot hasn't released multiple lore events(Shurima, now Bilgewater, and as bad as it was, Freljord), comics(Ekko and Udyr), Videos(Kench, Braum, Jinx, the Shadow Isles video), or additional voice-over work(Tahm Kench has...40+ unique lines), but since they have done that stuff, I'm not going to assume that's what you meant.

lord_khaine

2015-07-22, 10:29 AM

Manticoran

2015-07-22, 10:33 AM

I quite like the HUD changes, personally.

Godskook

2015-07-22, 10:34 AM

FFS! Whatever &¤%&%&/ at Riot who came up with the bright idea of the huge interface change and that horrible pirate music/voiceover deserves to be kicked so hard in the ass he/she forgots their own name :smallfurious:
I cant find a single positive thing to say about it, and im to angry to actually list up what i think is bad :smallmad:

What're you talking about? The new HUD? :smallconfused: If you're talking about the new HUD, it looks pretty good, although I haven't fully calibrated to it yet(I'm notoriously bad at calibrating, so I can't blame the HUD for that).

Dienekes

2015-07-22, 10:43 AM

An interesting problem with the LoL lore is that a bunch of things can be started as goals for the various characters, but they can't be fulfilled. So any progress will largely be based around mcguffins or some setting changes.

Take Graves and TF. Graves's goal is to kill TF, and to be honest, I'm rooting for him too. But that can never happen, so any story that focuses on Graves's goals will not progress beyond Graves getting close to killing TF and failing, which I think happened twice in this write up alone.

The same is true for Lucien and Thresh, or Rengar and Kha'Zix, or Nasus and Renekton.

So, instead they could focus on who gets whatever that thing was that TF was hired to steal, which can be a fun adventure, but won't really progress the characters. Like the Shurima event. It introduced Azir, and that's good, and set up his rivalry with Xerath, but for the other characters that started their adventure Cass and Sivir, it didn't really do much beyond revealing some backstory for Sivir. Cass didn't get the weapon to destroy Demacia, because that will never happen to the setting as that would get rid of too many characters.

So yeah, I can see how having all these restraints, plus having to fit what you do come up with in the context of the game could be frustraiting for a writer.

Anarion

2015-07-22, 10:50 AM

Artanis

2015-07-22, 11:34 AM

They were released over seven years where I'm from, but okay. It does not change my original point in that writing can be efficient. Rowling managed to create a fluid, living world in a shorter span of time than what was presented.

As for using extra-material to tell a story, it's been done well by Sting and their Dept Heaven series. Touhou has a barebones story, with very little actual written material within the game, and most of that being accessible from mangas. It still has a very thriving world because the games does a decent job of presenting the characters that live in the world, and manages to draw connecting lines between the games. Nothing really happens in a vacuum, which has been one of the main points that the LoL lore has been struggling with.
Something that occurs to me is that "creating a world" and "putting a world into text" are not the same thing. We have no idea how much time Rowling or Martin put into building their worlds before writing a single word. How many years did Rowling spend creating the world of Harry Potter before she started swiping napkins to write on?

If you think - really think - about the world-building behind what the lore team is writing, there is a LOT that goes on that you don't see unless you look at the implications. Ekko was released eight weeks after Bard and all he got beyond the usual release blurb was a few pages of comic (and a really sweet video). Cool, a kid who makes a doodad that screws with time. Can't be that hard to sketch out a storyboard and fill in some speech bubbles, right? And yet, that one comic fundamentally expanded Zaun into a place that actually has citizens who aren't horribly-mutated a**holes. It also added orders of magnitude to an aspect of Piltover (namely the existence of terrible, terrible people) that until that point hadn't been much more than a couple of lines scattered among a few champions' backstories. It takes a lot of work to do something like that without breaking a ton of stuff around it.

One further problem that few (if any) novelists have to worry about is having an entirely different group of people adding more and more stuff for them to try to fit in every few weeks. "Hey guys, we're adding a new Support who's a big dude from Freljord using a vault door as a shield and who punches people so hard that they freeze solid. Go do your thing."

...and that's before you get into how the gameplay guys get more time to work on a concept than the lore team since the lore team has to wait until the champion's look and feel is nailed down. The lore team and the gameplay guys do work together to figure out what look and feel goes best with the mechanics (and vice versa), but that doesn't change the fact that you can't start writing about a woman from Piltover until you're 100% sure that the final product isn't going to change to be, say, Viking Hercules, right? :smallwink:

Dienekes

2015-07-22, 11:45 AM

The League is full of ghost skins. Graves could kill TF if the moment were suitably climactic (one would never write such a thing in act 1 of a new story) and then they could release a ghost TF skin to go with it. They probably would not do that because they like telling stories with TF, but they could if they wanted.

Really, it's much the same way that comics hate killing their characters. They do it occasionally, and they often turn around and find ways to revive them too.

Yes, but I think that super heroes are set up differently.

Sure, Lex Luthor's goal is to kill Superman, but that's not gonna happen. But that's ok, because we're not really writing a story about Lex Luthor (at least 90% of the time anyway), we're writing about Superman. And Superman's goal is to go help the world and save people. You can make story after story of that.

His personal goals are always more: court Lois Lane, find a way to fix Kandor, that sort of thing, and he does them and his story progresses and/or he goes back to just saving the world.

Manticoran

2015-07-22, 11:51 AM

Yes, but I think that super heroes are set up differently.

Sure, Lex Luthor's goal is to kill Superman, but that's not gonna happen. But that's ok, because we're not really writing a story about Lex Luthor (at least 90% of the time anyway), we're writing about Superman. And Superman's goal is to go help the world and save people. You can make story after story of that.

His personal goals are always more: court Lois Lane, find a way to fix Kandor, that sort of thing, and he does them and his story progresses and/or he goes back to just saving the world.

Right, so the problem there is that League is a world complicated enough and with morally gray enough characters that everyone is someone else's villain. Even "Good" characters like Ezreal are probably hated by the Shurima faction for stealing their stuff or something.

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-22, 12:01 PM

The only one who would really care about Ezreal is Azir, I mean Renekton is mad, Nasus doesn't strike me as one who would care specially because Ez doesn't want to sell the relics for his own gain, Xerath is probably plotting against Azir and it would really be hypocritical of Sivir to villianice Ez, she probably consider him a pest and rival though.

Frankly I like this approach, but YMMV.

Dienekes

2015-07-22, 12:16 PM

Right, so the problem there is that League is a world complicated enough and with morally gray enough characters that everyone is someone else's villain. Even "Good" characters like Ezreal are probably hated by the Shurima faction for stealing their stuff or something.

I wouldn't say more greyness is a problem, so much as the inability for major poblems to be resolved on a personal level.

Unlike a comic where it's perfectly set up for the hero to achieve their goal and the villan to lose each story. Because the story is following Superman, or Batman, or whoever and we will read or watch how they achieve their goals.

But there is no main character here. It's a bunch of characters, many of which want to completely murder those in a different faction. These cannot be resolved as that would remove characters from the game.

Which means any interaction where the opposed forces meet is not going to resolve anything. And in some cases may actually harm the character. For example, the longer the writers focus on the relationship between Graves and TF, almost inevitably the more incompetent Graves will appear. But, since this game is not about having a main character, making Graves incompetent would actually make a part of the fanbase annoyed.

This is true as well for the Noxus and Demacia scenario. You can make a hell of a story about Garen's attempt to save Demacia, or Cass's attempts to use trickery to conquer her ancestral foe. If it's well written either of those could be great.

But in terms of this game, having the power alter dramatically with Garen beating all his foes would be annoying to those who prefer Sion, or Draven. And vice versa. It's kind of a lose-lose scenario, except when all sides are effected roughly equivalently, or the changes in lore are based off of some event in game. Then it's harder to think that Riot is picking on your favorite character when the rules of how the story will develop are given to the community and then they decide the outcome.

Maybe they did something similar with the Freljord event? I wasn't playing during that.

Perpetual Blur

2015-07-22, 12:39 PM

Obligatory GRRM link: Write like the Wind (https://youtu.be/j7lp3RhzfgI)

I'm really not sure why we're comparing Rowling to Martin. I mean, technically they are both fantasy, but Rowling's fantasy operates with no rules or consistency; the amount of world she credibly built was Hogwarts and Gringotts. And maybe a bit of Diagon Alley. You can see the limits in the Deathly Hallows, where Harry basically goes on a sequence of Macguffin quests. Most of those quest locations, NPCs, magic and dynamics were brand new, not tied closely to anything, and only used for that quest. That's only a world in the literature sense of the word, wheres GRRM has legitimately created a full world with new physics, magic rules, tech rules, 15-20 countries and 200+ characters spread across two continents. And managed to actually pull off reasonable consistency.

I'm not a total fanboy; I think he has some writing problems, and some of the dialogue comes across as a bit repitious and dull. But from a lore perspective, there's no comparison. A better example would be Tolkien, with 12 years on TLotR, but honestly he was working on his lore his entire life. I'm not about to say the GRRM isn't slacking off a bit now that he's financially secure, but I don't begrudge him that if so. He's still turning out quality lore.

So far as league lore goes, it's hard to write lore for a non-plot driven video game. In the end, every game of league of legends starts the exact same way, regardless of what lore has or hasn't been written. The easiest thing is to do what valve did with dota: set up a very static lore, with occasional massive events actually changing the game permanently (wraith night). The problem is that players will get pissed if you start making (or they think you're making) gameplay changes for lore reasons. And it's quite hard to synchronize actual storyline releases with needed gameplay mods.

I don't know what their plan is, but releasing lore with ingame content is one of the few tools they have for releasing lore without it feeling entirely divorced from the game. I'm not surprised it's most of what they've done so far.

9mm

2015-07-22, 01:25 PM

I mean, Reina reads this. Maybe she can say to someone 'Hey, the community I'm a part of wants more lore stuff' to someone with the sway to actually get it done.
as a member of the jaded and ignored lore lover community, if riot doesn't realize people love this stuff by now, they're not about to start now.

Lethologica

2015-07-22, 01:26 PM

Hey remember when League had static lore that occasionally had massive events (leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ionia_versus_Noxus:_Rematch) resulting in gameplay changes? A tradition, might I add, that has been continued (http://leaguefactions.net/) by devoted fans even after Riot nuked it?

*sigh*

And releasing lore alongside in-game content really isn't an issue. It's a good thing, even.

The main point of frustration is the lack of a top-level view on what the lore is, how all these fragmented pieces fit together, and when we'll know more about the lore. The current state of affairs is like introducing someone to an elephant by pressing their hand on different patches of rough gray hide.

Joran

2015-07-22, 02:22 PM

Perpetual Blur

2015-07-22, 02:34 PM

Hey remember when League had static lore that occasionally had massive events (leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ionia_versus_Noxus:_Rematch) resulting in gameplay changes?

That's awesome. Really awesome. I'd love to see Valve pull a similar thing. (Though without factions in the same way, you'd need to have radiant or dire take an objective on the map or something.)

Seriously, this one make me jealous.

Manticoran

2015-07-22, 02:48 PM

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-22, 02:50 PM

Noxian Boots of Fervor/Ferocity. I believe it.

Anarion

2015-07-22, 03:06 PM

Noxian Boots of Fervor/Ferocity. I believe it.

What would they add, +10 AD?

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-22, 03:08 PM

no, 15% CDR. They'd be red boots with spikes or something.

I was just trying to come up with a Noxian flavored name for Ionian Boots of Lucidity.

Anarion

2015-07-22, 03:21 PM

no, 15% CDR. They'd be red boots with spikes or something.

I was just trying to come up with a Noxian flavored name for Ionian Boots of Lucidity.

Noxian boots of frenzy, in that case. :smallsmile:

Lethologica

2015-07-22, 03:53 PM

I'd also like to point out that due to restrictions on what players could do, and the horrible imbaness of the characters involved, Ionia vs Noxus was a horrible event by any real gaming standpoint besides "Watch Udyr Kill Everyone, Isn't This Fun And Totally A Fair And Balanced Event?"

Also we have no idea if they actually tied any item releases to either side winning. Would we not have Ionian Boots of Stomping in the game if Noxus had won? Or would they just be Noxxian Boots of Stomping instead? And if there was another item... What happened to it?

Events like that are fantastic from a lore perspective, but create lots of problems from a competition or gameplay development perspective.

EDIT: That said, having some kind of Ionia vs Noxus event where it's the Weird Game Mode of the month could be kind of cool, where there's two queues and you sign up for one or the other and they have different champion pools or something could be interesting, especially if it's not on Summoner's Rift but on the Ascension map or something.
There were two other items that the Ionian team could have chosen, and a different list of three items the Noxian team could have chosen if they'd won.

And yeah, there were lots of problems--it was their first real attempt at it, plus the champion pool was smaller, and the item release clearly couldn't be a regular thing. But if they did it now, if they did it right? A Factions-style game mode would be an amazing addition.

...except Riot can't justify it with lore until they've rebuilt the lore to a point where having factions makes sense again. :smallannoyed:

Manticoran

2015-07-22, 08:23 PM

Having factions makes plenty of sense. It's games with Garen and Katarina teaming up with Cho'gath and Kassadin that don't.

9mm

2015-07-22, 09:26 PM

Banner OP (http://imgur.com/5voIjlb)
took forever to convince everyone to buy them, but we promptly won when they did.

Nadevoc

2015-07-22, 10:54 PM

One comment on the new UI:

They really need to change the color that ability icons flash when they come off CD or you level up. I keep seeing my ability come off CD blued out in the corner of my eye and thinking I'm out of mana.

Qwertystop

2015-07-22, 11:17 PM

It feels like the flash takes too long, to me - not sure why.

mrcarter11

2015-07-22, 11:37 PM

I feel like you're a tad conflicted on that subject...

Ripping out the primary driving motivation of an *ENTIRE WORLD* tends to leave whatever is left in ruins until you rehash and reweave it all back together. I had a campaign world in which everything had revolved around containing a Tarrasque for the past ~100 years or so. If I suddenly decided that there was no Tarrasque in that world, the landscape would literally change. I'd have kingdoms in places who's history was forgotten, I'd have civilizations that weren't displaced. Personally, I agree with the lore team, the IoW had to go, but I also realize that removing it was going to take a massive amount of time.

I disagree. Starting halfway done and then finishing might be easier than starting from nothing, but starting halfway to an undesired result and the course-correcting is, imho, harder and longer than starting from nothing.

We don't ask sheep how long it should take the Lion to do things.

1. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/BmlIQTTn-lores-becoming-short

2.You're trying to derive Riot's Lore team's intentions from what they've been willing to release so far. I think that's unfair on its face, but you're also ignoring the Shurima event, Ekko and Udyr's comics, the tease work they've done in the interim. Hell, you're ignoring Tahm's video lore. Forgot about that. Tahm has his own video lore, y'know?

No not conflicted at all. It was the event that ****ed up all the lore. And it was fine at the time that they ****ed it up. They supposedly had a good reason for doing so. They wanted to tell certain stories that they otherwise couldn't. However we have seen pretty much nothing to show for them ****ing it all up.

Take some time yes. I agree. If however you are paid to fix that world and you have a team of people helping you fix that world, but after two years you still haven't managed to fix that world, you probably suck at world building.

You already have a massive chunk of the core players you need to write about designed and given some type of a personalty, now all you have to do is figure out how they fit in the new world. Only a few champions were 100% tied into the IoJ, the vast majority needed very little rewriting. Half the leg work of world building was done for them before they ever even started.

I'm not sure what exactly you were going for here.

Thank you for the link. I feel it greatly helps to prove my point that Riot's lore is a joke. Champions have sat on 3-4 lines of lore with nothing else added for over a year and a half now. They can keep waving their arms while promising that more lore for those champions is on the way, but so far it would seem that nothing is coming. And of course I'm gonna base my opinion on what they have delivered. I gave them blind faith already, they did nothing with it. So now things are based on what they give us which is practically nothing. I'm not forgetting the comics or videos, they just don't amount to much of anything in relation to how long we've had to wait for those things.

PersonMan

2015-07-23, 12:44 AM

Godskook

2015-07-23, 01:13 AM

No not conflicted at all. It was the event that ****ed up all the lore. And it was fine at the time that they ****ed it up. They supposedly had a good reason for doing so. They wanted to tell certain stories that they otherwise couldn't. However we have seen pretty much nothing to show for them ****ing it all up.

1.Are you just pretending the lore I've mentioned doesn't exist?

2.They're starting to use some pretty impressive tech in the lore updates, so I'm guessing we've hit the point where lore is going to start being steady.

Take some time yes. I agree. If however you are paid to fix that world and you have a team of people helping you fix that world, but after two years you still haven't managed to fix that world, you probably suck at world building.

2 years really doesn't seem unreasonable when the process involves gutting a pretty foundational but problematic element of the Lore at the start.

You already have a massive chunk of the core players you need to write about designed and given some type of a personalty, now all you have to do is figure out how they fit in the new world. Only a few champions were 100% tied into the IoJ, the vast majority needed very little rewriting. Half the leg work of world building was done for them before they ever even started.

Who all require redefining because a major element of their characters has evaporated. We've covered this; I feel like you should at the very least mature your argument to cover that I've already rebutted this point once.

I'm not sure what exactly you were going for here.

Its a reference to a saying from Martin's Game of Thrones. Basically, saying "lots of authors would say X about Martin" is exactly like saying "lots of bronze 5 players would say Y about Hai". It really doesn't matter what "lots of authors" say, because there's *VERY* few authors who produce the caliber of work he produces.

Thank you for the link. I feel it greatly helps to prove my point that Riot's lore is a joke. Champions have sat on 3-4 lines of lore with nothing else added for over a year and a half now.

In the place you want lore, they're not getting lore. If that's the only place you want lore, you've apparently come to the wrong place. But to characterize the lore as a "joke" is grossly misleading because of all the reasons previously mentioned.

They can keep waving their arms while promising that more lore for those champions is on the way, but so far it would seem that nothing is coming. And of course I'm gonna base my opinion on what they have delivered. I gave them blind faith already, they did nothing with it. So now things are based on what they give us which is practically nothing. I'm not forgetting the comics or videos, they just don't amount to much of anything in relation to how long we've had to wait for those things.

You do understand that "something" is more than "nothing", right? And Comics/Videos/Events/etc is "something", but you keep calling it "nothing". I don't get where you're coming from here.

Siosilvar

2015-07-23, 01:24 AM

The argument that the lore exists would be strengthened if you didn't have to go out of your way (i.e. out of client) to find it if you're looking for it more than two weeks after it's created...

I like most of the new lore they're doing. League is getting much better at "show, don't tell". But something like the Kalista short story should at least be linked on her champion page once it leaves the news on the front.

mrcarter11

2015-07-23, 01:48 AM

1.Are you just pretending the lore I've mentioned doesn't exist?

2.They're starting to use some pretty impressive tech in the lore updates, so I'm guessing we've hit the point where lore is going to start being steady.

2 years really doesn't seem unreasonable when the process involves gutting a pretty foundational but problematic element of the Lore at the start.

Who all require redefining because a major element of their characters has evaporated. We've covered this; I feel like you should at the very least mature your argument to cover that I've already rebutted this point once.

Its a reference to a saying from Martin's Game of Thrones. Basically, saying "lots of authors would say X about Martin" is exactly like saying "lots of bronze 5 players would say Y about Hai". It really doesn't matter what "lots of authors" say, because there's *VERY* few authors who produce the caliber of work he produces.

In the place you want lore, they're not getting lore. If that's the only place you want lore, you've apparently come to the wrong place. But to characterize the lore as a "joke" is grossly misleading because of all the reasons previously mentioned.

You do understand that "something" is more than "nothing", right? And Comics/Videos/Events/etc is "something", but you keep calling it "nothing". I don't get where you're coming from here.

I'm not pretending it doesn't exist it just exists in such small doses that I don't feel it qualifies as the amount of lore we SHOULD have by now.
You think it's gonna start being steady, I'll be happily surprised if it is, however time has shown that because they make a bunch of flashy stuff for a region, it probably won't be constant.

Then we disagree on what it reasonable. I totally feel it has been long enough, you don't. We won't agree on this.

No. A massive amount of them don't require much for changes. They require minor changes.

We majorly disagree on GRRM's talent as well.

The current lore is a joke in comparison to how much lore we should have at this point.

The something is a lot less than what we should have for lore at this point in time.

Godskook

2015-07-23, 02:32 AM

The argument that the lore exists would be strengthened if you didn't have to go out of your way (i.e. out of client) to find it if you're looking for it more than two weeks after it's created...

I can get behind having more of the Lore built into the client, but that's something that's going to require being built into the client's code, which would then require coding time to be implemented too.

I like most of the new lore they're doing. League is getting much better at "show, don't tell". But something like the Kalista short story should at least be linked on her champion page once it leaves the news on the front.

I disagree here. Lore on the champion pages should strive for some symmetry of design, and I see the Kalista video as being very asymetric, and thus deserving of a different type of presentation. I'd be for it eventually living on the client, but in a place better suited to it.

J-H

2015-07-23, 07:15 AM

Is there a link to an HTML version of the Bilgewater writing y'all are talking about? It hung at 99% and never loaded.

I'm not sure why Flash or Silverlight or whatever is necessary just to display text...yeesh.

zabbarot

2015-07-23, 07:27 AM

The new UI is weird. I bought Kindlegem and thought my Ignite was ready 24/7 because of the big red thing where my summoners used to be.

I love the new announcer. It feels amazing to kill someone in lane and have him shout SHOW 'EM WHO YOU ARE!.

The new UI bothered me until I found the little helmet button that displays your combat stats. Nice that if you toggle it on it stays on into future games. As if they realized you'd never want it off. :smalltongue: I do wonder if that'll effect new players who now will have no idea what their AD or Armor is until they find that. On the other hand I like that they added CDR to it.

The only other thing that kinda bugs me is the lack of player names on the scoreboard. League is sort of anonymous just because of the number of players, but I like to think the names matter.

The announcer is definitely amusing at least.

Manticoran

2015-07-23, 08:24 AM

As a random note on that, I actually turn off everywhere I can for names, and don't have them over friendly or enemy champions. Because I don't think it's actually relevant, and can actually lead to me tilting harder if I think of champions as being people rather than as just a manifestation of the game.

Which is to say, I prefer to play League as if all of the players are really really good AI who respond and act to chat, and think that dehumanizing your allies and enemies is the best way to function because it's hard to get annoyed at the computer.

zabbarot

2015-07-23, 09:40 AM

I do pretty much the opposite, because I like to joke and imagine that I'm making friends. Sometimes people add me afterwards and I actually do make friends, so it's nice. Keeping the human players present makes me play nicer, I think. I don't need to tell an AI that the play they just pulled was impressive, but a human will appreciate that.

Basically keeping them human keeps me from being an *******.

Dienekes

2015-07-23, 10:09 AM

And I like thinking of them as people so I can crush my enemies and see them driven before me.

Beating computers is a lot less fun. Unless it's Chess, because there are some scary good computers in Chess.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-23, 11:11 AM

I'm annoyed because I'm usually in premades, and it's difficult to solve "wait, who's playing what, again?" at a glance.

Lack of summoner names in the Tab menu is pretty much the only gripe I have with it so far, though. Everything else about it is pretty great.

Lethologica

2015-07-23, 01:20 PM

I can get behind having more of the Lore built into the client, but that's something that's going to require being built into the client's code, which would then require coding time to be implemented too.
Have it in the client, have a portal, have a tab on the homepage, have something that endures. This is another way in which Riot is failing to provide a top-level view of the lore (literally, in this case).

And I like thinking of them as people so I can crush my enemies and see them driven before me.

Beating computers is a lot less fun. Unless it's Chess, because there are some scary good computers in Chess.
Considering chess programs are the best players in the world by a cool mile, if I beat a chess program it's because the program was handicapped to let me win, which is kind of lame. Go bots are more interesting.

mrcarter11

2015-07-23, 02:41 PM

Have it in the client, have a portal, have a tab on the homepage, have something that endures. This is another way in which Riot is failing to provide a top-level view of the lore (literally, in this case).

Considering chess programs are the best players in the world by a cool mile, if I beat a chess program it's because the program was handicapped to let me win, which is kind of lame. Go bots are more interesting.

If he was still around, Bobby Fischer would argue with you on that.

Qwertystop

2015-07-23, 03:02 PM

I'm annoyed that the smallest UI setting is still larger than I had it before.

One Step Two

2015-07-23, 07:56 PM

So, this happened last night. (http://matchhistory.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/OC1/97990988/201280834?tab=overview) Despite the dominance we showed we actually had some really early game pressure, notably because our Jungler was DC'd for a good 5-10 minutes, and the enemy Azir going top caused our GP to lose lane pretty hard, and from my side of things, I had leveled up my Shield at 1st level instead of my E.

I was fortunate enough to fight GP at Mid, which was odd, but it was interesting to play against. His Barrels are such a trap for Melee champs, but free gold to a canny Ranged Champ, I honestly think my CS in that match was somewhat lacking, but I made up the gold in the barrels stolen. His AP build was confusing, and probably what let him down the most.

Siosilvar

2015-07-23, 08:31 PM

I disagree here. Lore on the champion pages should strive for some symmetry of design, and I see the Kalista video as being very asymetric, and thus deserving of a different type of presentation. I'd be for it eventually living on the client, but in a place better suited to it.

I must not have written what I meant to say. And what I meant to say was this:

Things like the Kalista video and short story, Jinx song, etc. would just be external links on the champion's Lore tab. It's kind of a stopgap solution until lore is properly integrated into the client, but even if it's throwaway work it's got good value for the time being. And it's where people will start and stop looking for champion lore, so there needs to be something there, because right now it looks like Bard is a character with four lines of flavor text when in fact he's got a video and the constellation thing that is his champion preview.

I think I'd like the lore tabs to be similar to the champion previews, but that's really up to somebody with more experience to decide. But something has to change.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-23, 10:24 PM

We're all ignoring something really important here.

Twisted Fate has a real first name.

Edit: my feels when I want to show off my tier 2 icon swag, but actually like the tier 1 icon a lot better. (Went the Twisted Fate path for both acts)

One Step Two

2015-07-23, 10:57 PM

Disregard all things related to lore, Teemo is getting a buff! (http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/07/723-pbe-update.html#teemo)

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-23, 11:27 PM

oh what did we ever do to make our masters hate us so?

Edit: Gangplank, Twisted Fate and Graves have new expanded lores on their champion pages on the website.

Landis963

2015-07-23, 11:44 PM

Dienekes

2015-07-24, 01:06 AM

I like what they did with Miss Fortune, although it is a tad obvious that she's going to swoop in and save the day. I mean, we can't have Graves and TF getting turned into scrimshaw. Although I wonder whether Graves and TF are going to patch things up as a result.

Probably, looking through the lore they changed the dynamic of their relationship. Originally, TF sold Graves out so he could get magic powers there were no questions about it.

Now apparently the heist went south and no one knows why. Which means after a struggle there will be a reveal that TF did try to save Graves, but couldn't and they'll leave as friends, or at least, Graves will stop trying to kill him.

lord_khaine

2015-07-24, 05:50 AM

I'm annoyed that the smallest UI setting is still larger than I had it before.

Im also annoyed at everything being misplaced without any good reasoning, as well as for some unknow idiot to decide there is no need for a direct "retreat" ping icon :smallannoyed:

I like what they did with Miss Fortune, although it is a tad obvious that she's going to swoop in and save the day. I mean, we can't have Graves and TF getting turned into scrimshaw. Although I wonder whether Graves and TF are going to patch things up as a result.

Spoilers :smallannoyed:
That sort of things are pretty rude regarding things that might only have been out a day or 2...

Godskook

2015-07-24, 07:49 AM

Im also annoyed at everything being misplaced without any good reasoning

They did a whole web page explaining their good reasoning. You may not agree with it, but it is still good reasoning.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/game-features/hud-update

as well as for some unknow idiot to decide there is no need for a direct "retreat" ping icon :smallannoyed:

Can you stop with the hyperbolic vitriol when expressing your preferences? The vitriol just makes you sound judgemental and needlessly change-averse, at least to me.

Spoilers :smallannoyed:
That sort of things are pretty rude regarding things that might only have been out a day or 2...

I really don't see what was spoiled. The conjecture about MF is purely conjecture and has no root in the story so far, that I can see, other than "MF is in this story", but we all knew that because Riot kinda made that part obvious with their release timing on MF's visual update and her placement elsewhere in the event's stuff.

thracian

2015-07-24, 08:27 AM

Im also annoyed at everything being misplaced without any good reasoning, as well as for some unknow idiot to decide there is no need for a direct "retreat" ping icon :smallannoyed:

Did people actually click the ping icons? That seems needlessly slow.

Recaiden

2015-07-24, 08:33 AM

It's not about the icon. It's about Swain's line attached to the tooltip!

lord_khaine

2015-07-24, 08:41 AM

Can you stop with the hyperbolic vitriol when expressing your preferences? The vitriol just makes you sound judgemental and needlessly change-averse, at least to me.

Can you stop with the condensending comments in regards to what i feel is a rather legimate grievance in regards to a change that were dragged down over the head of the players?
It certainly makes you sound unusually arrogant/smug in my ears.

I really don't see what was spoiled. The conjecture about MF is purely conjecture and has no root in the story so far, that I can see, other than "MF is in this story", but we all knew that because Riot kinda made that part obvious with their release timing on MF's visual update and her placement elsewhere in the event's stuff.

You mean besides the bit about them getting caught by Gankplank?

Did people actually click the ping icons? That seems needlessly slow.

I used them regularly, and are more than just a little annoyed they are gone.

thracian

2015-07-24, 09:16 AM

Can you stop with the condensending comments in regards to what i feel is a rather legimate grievance in regards to a change that were dragged down over the head of the players?
It certainly makes you sound unusually arrogant/smug in my ears.

I don't think an accurate portrayal of someone's comments is condescending, especially with no additional tonality imparted to the statement. Something like saying "clicking ping icons seems needlessly slow" might be construed as condescending by implying you're choosing to use an inferior, slower interface and thus worth looking down on, but if I took out the word "Needlessly" and added "compared to using hotkeys" to the end, that would change the tonality of the statement away from condescending.

You mean besides the bit about them getting caught by Gankplank?

I had no idea they had been caught by Gangplank until you mentioned it, so thanks for the spoiler. Not sure on the specifics of what the hell ya'll are talking about (because I really don't care about the lore, like, at all), I had assumed getting turned into scrimshaw was a euphemism for getting killed and Landis was just getting into the pirate spirit. Now I know for a fact that Gangplank is directly involved and seems to have captured the two of them, so thanks.

I used them regularly, and are more than just a little annoyed they are gone.

See above snark and condescension.

NineThePuma

2015-07-24, 09:26 AM

I had no idea they had been caught by Gangplank until you mentioned it, so thanks for the spoiler. Not sure on the specifics of what the hell ya'll are talking about (because I really don't care about the lore, like, at all), I had assumed getting turned into scrimshaw was a euphemism for getting killed and Landis was just getting into the pirate spirit. Now I know for a fact that Gangplank is directly involved and seems to have captured the two of them, so thanks.

TF was hired to steal directly from GP's warehouse, so.

Dusk Eclipse

2015-07-24, 09:26 AM

Ok things seem to be heating up a little, so how about if we talk about something else? I've been having some great success with Nidalee Jungle, but I'm worried my core (RG+RoA) might not work if I don't get a couple kills early. So suggestions for which item to build first after Runeglaive if I'm even or behind on Nidalee?

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-24, 09:39 AM

I had assumed getting turned into scrimshaw was a euphemism for getting killed and Landis was just getting into the pirate spirit.

I think Malcolm and Tobias are probably both wishing that it actually is a euphemism at this point. :smalleek:

thracian

2015-07-24, 09:44 AM

Landis963

2015-07-24, 09:46 AM

I really don't see what was spoiled. The conjecture about MF is purely conjecture and has no root in the story so far, that I can see, other than "MF is in this story", but we all knew that because Riot kinda made that part obvious with their release timing on MF's visual update and her placement elsewhere in the event's stuff.

“Is everything in place, Rafen?” she asked.

After all these years, he was still taken aback at how he could never surprise her.

“Yes, Captain,” he said.

“You weren’t spotted?”

“No,” he bristled, reining in his displeasure at the question. “The bay was free from the harbor master’s eyes, and the ship was as good as empty.”

“And the boy?”

“He played his part.”

The "harbor master" is of course Gangplank (who else could it be?), and the only reason the ship was empty was because GP sent everyone to capture TF and Graves. The "boy" was the urchin who tipped Gangplank off about TF back in Act 1. Besides, it's a Bilgewater story. When a ruby-haired termagant appears, my first thought will never be, say, "Katarina."

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-24, 10:15 AM

Obviously not. Bilgewater Katarina's hair is black.

To answer the parenthetical question, I think in context the 'harbor master' mentioned is not meant to be Gangplank (the metaphorical 'master' of the harbor), but literally an actual harbormaster/overseer, though who is likely to be under Gangplank's thumb and reporting to him anyway.

Godskook

2015-07-24, 10:18 AM

Can you stop with the condensending comments in regards to what i feel is a rather legimate grievance in regards to a change that were dragged down over the head of the players?
It certainly makes you sound unusually arrogant/smug in my ears.

I wasn't being condescending.

You mean besides the bit about them getting caught by Gankplank?

There was no bit about them getting caught by GP. I get how you might feel like the story was spoiled now, though.

I used them regularly, and are more than just a little annoyed they are gone.

Personally, I never used them, but that's me. Are there not open hotkeys you can assign them to?

TF was hired to steal directly from GP's warehouse, so.

Which doesn't imply that GP caught them.

Ok things seem to be heating up a little, so how about if we talk about something else?

I feel like this attitude is bad for the community.

I've been having some great success with Nidalee Jungle, but I'm worried my core (RG+RoA) might not work if I don't get a couple kills early. So suggestions for which item to build first after Runeglaive if I'm even or behind on Nidalee?

That's a pretty normal setup for Nidalee. Based on history of what I've seen Nidalees run in the past, she seems to need a dedicated mana-solution item. RoA/Seraph's/Morello are popular options, but RoA seems to me to be the most centered on her not being ahead.

Godskook

2015-07-24, 10:22 AM

The "harbor master" is of course Gangplank (who else could it be?), and the only reason the ship was empty was because GP sent everyone to capture TF and Graves. The "boy" was the urchin who tipped Gangplank off about TF back in Act 1. Besides, it's a Bilgewater story. When a ruby-haired termagant appears, my first thought will never be, say, "Katarina."

That's definitely MF, but imho, there's no reason to assume she's going to save anyone from anything, except maybe by coincidence. Its more appropriate to assume that MF hired TF, informed Graves, and then set them both up as a glorious distraction/patsy combination so that she didn't even have to pay TF for his services because he'd be dead.

Ashen Lilies

2015-07-24, 10:22 AM

I saw RoA a lot during the Magus days, but Runeglaive seems to have lessened the need for a mana item, since she can usually just run into the jungle and punch some chickens for some extra mana. (Technically throw spears/claw at them, but I will never not use "punching chickens" as a euphemism for jungling)

I think I see more Zhonya's/Abyssals or Deathcaps second item coming in now, especially since Runeglaive isn't particularly good damage on its own without extra AP to back it up.

Landis963

2015-07-24, 10:25 AM

That's definitely MF, but imho, there's no reason to assume she's going to save anyone from anything, except maybe by coincidence.

Sounds about right, tbh.

Manticoran

2015-07-24, 10:26 AM

Yeah, the reason RG is so good on Nid is actually that it solves her mana problems AND does all of the other useful stuff. You don't need to buy a mana item, because you can just hop into cougar form, hit on a Scuttle Crab or a camp for a bit, then come back out with at least half mana.

Artanis

2015-07-24, 11:40 AM

So...got around to playing my third solo/duo-queue placement last night. It was my best personal performance* in a ranked game that I've had in a good while, but...well...

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1896362672/210717481?tab=overview

Look at our top laner. Now look at the wards placed.

I was a sad Q-spamming Panda :smallfrown:

*Note on my build: I took BT before BoRK and instead of IE because of how fights were going. Lissandra was blowing up Zed practically the instant any fight started, leaving the enemy team with enough jump-on-you to get to me but not enough instagib to take me out right away. I usually wound up surviving almost long enough for my E to refresh and get me to a safer spot, so I got BT in the hopes that its lifesteal - and perhaps more importantly, its shield - would be give me the extra second or so that I needed to "be Ezreal at them" and slip away to a safer spot. I figured that if that little bit of boost let me live - and thus Q and AA - three times longer, then it would more than make up for the damage that I'd lose out on.

Nadevoc

2015-07-24, 12:00 PM

*Note on my build: I took BT before BoRK and instead of IE because of how fights were going. Lissandra was blowing up Zed practically the instant any fight started, leaving the enemy team with enough jump-on-you to get to me but not enough instagib to take me out right away. I usually wound up surviving almost long enough for my E to refresh and get me to a safer spot, so I got BT in the hopes that its lifesteal - and perhaps more importantly, its shield - would be give me the extra second or so that I needed to "be Ezreal at them" and slip away to a safer spot. I figured that if that little bit of boost let me live - and thus Q and AA - three times longer, then it would more than make up for the damage that I'd lose out on.

I find that an odd reason to delay BoRK, since the BoRK is to keep you alive when people are diving you. I've found the lifesteal and active combine to make me pretty hard to dive as Ezreal; it's definitely been the most effective option for me.

Lethologica

2015-07-24, 12:47 PM

There was no bit about them getting caught by GP. I get how you might feel like the story was spoiled now, though.
'We can't have TF and Graves getting turned into scrimshaw' is a direct reference to getting caught by GP for anyone who's read the first act. So that was a spoiler for me, for example--though since I'd already read act 2 part 1, it's not particularly surprising. I don't mind anyway, it's not like this lore is so well-crafted that I want to preserve myself for it.