Building the Big Bad Ultimecia

[TheBrassDuke]

http://static.zerochan.net/full/13/47/1372363.jpg

Ultimecia -- Witch of Time, the BBEG of Final Fantasy VIII!

How would you build her? Emulate her powers?

From possessing other "Sorceresses", to constructing Griever, Ulti had a lot of sick abilities that once terrified me!

Now how would you do it?

- Builds requested!

- Spell selection key to describing her abilities. (Magic Jar and Phantasmal Assailant for the above two?)

(I'm thinking she's Human, obviously...or something similar. Maybe Elf or Half-elf, to make her seem a bit different than the humans.)

Wizard or Sorcerer?

Full build, from Level 1 to 20, please! :D

Aaand GO!

Edit (Knight Arrows could be a leveled "Delayed Blast" Magic Missile, no? Would work during Time Stop...)

[T.G. Oskar]

First and foremost: human Sorcerer. The whole idea behind her story is that she was the most powerful Sorceress in existence, but she was threatened by her own mortality and the certainty that SeeD WILL finish her rule, and thus she intends to perpetuate her existence through Time Compression. Thus, she must know at least spells related to time, and that means Haste, Slow, Temporal Stasis and, of course, Time Stop. She can have a few levels in Archmage for purposes of making Time Stop an SLA, to manifest her control over time abilities. Technically, Psions have greater control over time, so she could work as a psion, but the fluff just BEGS for Sorcerer. So, Sorcerer X/PrC X/Archmage 1-5. Most likely also Epic level.

Her ability to "possess" other creatures is done through the Junction Machine Ellone, and the closest thing that can be used for it is the Eldritch Machine from Eberron, which is meant to be some sort of DM fiat machine. Essentially, she can use a modified version of Magic Jar which has no distance, planar, or time boundaries, and keeps the personality of the possessed character suppressed.

Most of her spells should be related to Time and Space. It's obvious she knows at least Haste, Slow, Temporal Stasis and Time Stop (as I mentioned above), but also Dimension Door, Teleport and perhaps other smaller teleportation spells. Maybe even Mirror Image (as a way to explain why she's so hard to hit). Contingency and Craft Contingent Spell are a must, since it's a given that she knows how to prepare against many eventualities (just not against her destiny). She also knows a few attack spells, so give them the most efficient ones (maybe Maw of Chaos, Avasculate, Wings of Flurry, etc.); a good idea you mentioned was Delayed Blast Fireball, since it's probably a tactic she would exploit (perhaps even with Energy Substitution to further exploit the benefits; Delayed Blast "Acid"ball is really hard to avoid, particularly after using Time Stop).

Griever seems more like Pathfinder's Eidolon than anything else, and that would make her a Synthesist Summoner, which isn't really her focus (she's more of a caster than a summoner, in any case). You could transplant the rules of Synthesist Summoner, create Griever as a creature under the Eidolon rules (as if Ulty had levels in Summoner) and make a spell that allows her to junction to Griever, in case she needs to become an offensive powerhouse. Yeah, that's homebrew, but to be honest, that bit is essentially her ability to shape thoughts into reality by that moment, and her attempt was to create the "strongest" GF by extracting it from Squall's mind, mostly as a blow to morale than anything else (that Quistis can use the strongest GF's most powerful attack shows Griever isn't the strongest, by any means; then there's Eden).

In any case, 1-20 isn't enough. Ultimecia, by the time she's being faced by Squall and co., is at least Epic level. That way, she could get access to Epic Spellcasting and duplicate some of those effects (Origin of Life: Griever, Contingent Time Stop, Knight's Arrow, etc.)

[Buufreak]

In any case, 1-20 isn't enough. Ultimecia, by the time she's being faced by Squall and co., is at least Epic level. That way, she could get access to Epic Spellcasting and duplicate some of those effects (Origin of Life: Griever, Contingent Time Stop, Knight's Arrow, etc.)

Just my two cents (but I do agree with damn near everything you said) but this line isn't a total truth. Remember that in 8, enemies, including the freaking final boss, scaled with the party. If you managed to make it here at lvl 1, then by God she too will be just as weak. Mostly a nitpick, but factual.

[PsyBomb]

The GFs work REALLY strangely when you try to translate them to 3.5/PF. Take it from me, I statted her up as the Big Bad of a Kingdom Hearts campaign I ran for a while (never made it to her, unfortunately, but picture a fight of her against Jack Skellington, Elsa, Rapunzel, Vincent Valentine, Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, and the Living Will).

I did basically what was outlined above. Greiver was crafted as a distinct creature that had a Posession effect to give power to her.

[TheBrassDuke]

What a great slew of replies already! I'm actually loving what's come up so far, but I am far too ignorant of Psionics to even attempt an effective run with those mechanics.

Human sorceress was my first choice, too...for fluff reasons, really, but I think she'd make an excellent wizard (Witch of Time, in Japanese, after all).

I'd thought about Eberron's page on Eldritch Machines, so I'm glad we're on the same path there. Nice spell selections, too. The Time-oriented spells, obvious, but offensives were brilliant. I'm even thinking about adding Programmed Amnesia, as well. That just begs to be on her list.

Delayed Blast [Fireball] is a good choice, at least when paired with Time Stop. Can you imagine the destruction?

How would you emulate Apocolypse or Hell's Judgment? Shock wave Pulsar, or Great Attractor?

Meteor Swarm for Meteor, Poison for Bio, or Contagion? How about Quake?

"Ultimecia can manifest and give life to subconscious thoughts and inanimate objects" -"Animate Objects", if you believe Sorcerers can gain "unique spells" not just on the Sor/Wiz list. ;)

Telekinesis. Ice Knife or something. Um.

[Ger. Bessa]

More for Edea, but Ice lance.

Also, Ice lance.

Remember that terrible cliffy at the end of disc 1 ?

Ice lance.

[TheBrassDuke]

More for Edea, but Ice lance.

Also, Ice lance.

Remember that terrible cliffy at the end of disc 1 ?

Ice lance.

For some reason I Think we should add Ice Lance to the list. Weird, like Spidey-Senses. ._.

Also, if you look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423413-Sorcerers-learning-non-Sor-Wiz-Spells&p=19440081#post19440081) and tend to agree, I think we could cover "Quake" with the Druid's Earthquake spell. But that is, of course, if you think the original 3.0 sorcerer was meant to be similar in 3.5. The errata seems to say so vaguely. So yeah.

Griever is difficult without Homebrew. I want to stay away from that, though, because I think there are viable options. So we'll think more about that.

As for other spells. Hm.

Half-fey Template, anyone? Gives her the wings (just make them big, feathery things).

This will be a lot of fun to actually build.

[T.G. Oskar]

Just my two cents (but I do agree with damn near everything you said) but this line isn't a total truth. Remember that in 8, enemies, including the freaking final boss, scaled with the party. If you managed to make it here at lvl 1, then by God she too will be just as weak. Mostly a nitpick, but factual.

There's still a good argument for making her Epic levels, even if the original game had enemies that scaled to your level: most of her spells don't have a way to be replicated and are pretty powerful. Just Apocalypse is meant to be more powerful than Ultima, and Ultima is meant to be the most powerful spell, so it should be an Epic spell; the simplest, sure, but one of them. She's also considered to be the most powerful sorceress in her world, and she essentially took over her world by herself before being slain by SeeD. Bears to attention that she should be Epic level, even if the party isn't.


How would you emulate Apocolypse or Hell's Judgment? Shock wave Pulsar, or Great Attractor?

Apocalypse and Hell's Judgment would be Epic spells, and most probably Shockwave Pulsar, though the latter is really Griever's most powerful attack (and a spell Quistis, of all people, can cast).


Meteor Swarm for Meteor, Poison for Bio, or Contagion? How about Quake?

"Ultimecia can manifest and give life to subconscious thoughts and inanimate objects" -"Animate Objects", if you believe Sorcerers can gain "unique spells" not just on the Sor/Wiz list. ;)

Bio is more like "damage + poison", so go for those lines. Quake can already be duplicated by the Earthquake Cleric/Druid spell, but you'd need a way to gain non-Sorcerer spells. I don't really agree with the idea of Sorcerers getting non-Sorcerer spells through "study" (and not really for the discussion); not really convinced of how Extra Spell from Complete Arcane can give you spells outside your spell list, but I would allow it since you're spending a scarce resource (feat slots) for it.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: Reverse Gravity. It's not Gravity/Gravija, but it's close, and she can pull it off in Dissidia, so...

[TheBrassDuke]

The sorcerer wouldn't necessarily be getting the spell "through study", per se, because different ideas breed different fluff.

Say I'm making a half-djinn sorcerer, okay? I'll be learning at least Cure Light Wounds, right? Because I'm a sorcerer of the people, and for the people. I'm here to tend to most needs.

I probably wouldn't actually do that, but yeah.

Or a lightning sorcerer? Obviously gonna learn Call Lightning/Storm.

It's to make sorcerers stand out next to wizards, because even in 3.0 they could have access to those spells, in RAW. Though the 3.5 PHB is vague, it does kind of say they can learn spells not on the Sor/Wiz list. Of course now you have to rely on DM approval. Sad.

But in my campaign I'll always allow it. There are some spells I'll say no to, and that's mostly because no matter what, it won't match your fluff. @_@

But back on-topic, yeah. Reverse Gravity is another must.