Just for fun: Batman (with no monk levels)

[Ralanr]

So I just had an idea for a Batman build that comes alive around level 10 and doesn't use a level of monk.

3 levels of rogue, go theif. Expertise in Stealth and Investigation.
7 levels of fighter, go battlemaster. Take proficiency in alchemy supplies.
Tavern Brawler (Variant human) and Skulker (if you can afford it)
Push Dex but don't dump strength. This probably wouldn't work well in a point buy.
Fightering style: Defense, because +1 AC works better than others. Maybe Archery if you focus more on throwing daggers/batarangs.

Maneuvers: Disarming, Trip, Menacing, Not sure on the next two you get at fighter 7. Considering: Evasive footwork, lunging, sweeping, pushing, riposte, or precision.

Explanation: Batman is a nonlethal combatant (crippling for life, but nonlethal). So while a 1d4 would seem week, he'd mainly focus on using maneuvers in combat. You can use daggers for batarangs and alchemy supplies would help make gadgets (not all but you can make pepper/repellent spray if your DM is ok with it). Probably use a breastplate, higher levels could grab medium armor master for better dex.

Know your enemy is great on stake outs.

Leveling: Take 4 more levels in rogue to get expertise in athletics (for better grappling) and Insight/intimidate/perception/acrobatics (I'm not sure which works better). Take at least three more levels in fighter for two more maneuvers and making the maneuvers d10's. You also get uncanny dodge and evasion, which are both awesome.

Not sure what else after level 17. Perhaps Ranger with favored Terrain:Urban (Not a thing but this is batman) with favored enemies: Thieves and Criminals (Because I can't just pick humans). Hunter for Horde Breaker.

I kinda wanted to avoid ranger due to spell casting. Though Primeval awareness looks useful. Taking Spell less ranger gives two more maneuvers and poultices, which are kinda gadgety.

Thoughts? This would require DM fiat to allow your fists to fulfill the requirements of many maneuvers, but you could also just use your daggers non-lethally if you can't use your fists. Batman sometimes uses his batarangs in close combat.

[Submortimer]

Ranger is perfect for batman. Reflavor his spells as gadgets, Take Tavern Brawler so he can fight with his fists, Reflavor his nature abilities to work in urban areas, and take Hunter to get Horde Breaker (to deal with big groups of bad guys). Alternately, spell-less ranger works wonders and gets you all the awesome Battlemaster abilities. Mix in some Thief to get good skills (Acrobatics/athletics, stealth, perception/investigation, intimidation) and you're gonna be golden. I would figure something out with your DM that allowed you to sneak attack with your fists.

[CNagy]

Unarmed strikes can be used to make weapon attacks, and all the maneuvers require to work is a weapon attack. So you're good on the unarmed strike without needing DM fiat. Otherwise it is a good Batman build, and I'm always in favor of dipping Ranger for hordebreaker, but yeah, it'd have to be the spell-less Ranger.

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Let me make the case for one, single, solitary level in Monk. Martial Arts is good. Really good. It's an ever-present bonus action attack and it frees up a feat/ASI that you would otherwise use for Tavern Brawler. Furthermore, since any monk weapon can trigger it, our Batman can throw a daggerang at one foe, only to turn and boot another mook in the face. Also, it allows you to add your Dex to unarmed strike damage--there's no sense in dumping Strength entirely, but focusing on Dexterity (and to a lesser extent, Consitution) makes for a Batman build that can actually be done without relying on high stat rolls, in a 27 point buy. There would be no need to put Wisdom any higher than necessary to multiclass, either, since we'd use armor (a Breastplate and later maybe Half-Plate).

With 1 level of Monk, 3 levels of Rogue (Thief), and 3 levels of Fighter (Battlemaster), the basic Batman comes alive at level 7. Starting as a Fighter, he gets all the armor proficiencies he needs, and the Defense fighting style (if Mariner isn't available, because if it is then Holy Climbing Speed, Batman!). It also gets him Strength and Constitution save proficiencies. We'll use Resiliency later to get Wisdom save proficiency and round that 13 to a 14 (or use it as the Variant Human feat to qualify for Monk MC in the first place.) Rogue's Evasion will make up for the lack of a Dexterity save proficiency. Multiclassing to Monk at 2nd level provides his basic means of attack and a second attack via Martial Arts. Take the next 2 levels in Fighter and boom, we're a Battlemaster. Take whatever maneuvers you want but make Riposte one of them (mook swings at Batman, <miss>, Batman brushes the attack aside and then punches the mook right in his mook face.)

Multiclass into Rogue at 5th level. Apply Sneak Attack to daggerangs, and use the daggerang attacks to trigger Martial Arts so you can punch whoever in is up close. Nonlethal damage is a cinch in 5e--you get to choose whether you deal a knockout blow or a deathblow when a creature hits 0 HP, so our Batman doesn't have to compromise his principles in the name of Sneak Attack. Take the next two levels in Rogue and at 7th level you have a Batman who can either Attack + Martial Arts bonus attack, Attack + Use an Item/Sleight of Hand/Thieves tools, Attack + Cunning Action, use multiple gadgets, use a gadget and move--lots of options.

Two more levels in Fighter net us an ASI and Extra Attack--the Batman can attack 3 times by level 9. Level 10 nets us another ASI/feat in the form of Rogue 4--and at this point I'd carry Rogue out to 8 to get Uncanny Dodge (the Batman knows how to roll with the big hits), Evasion (he knows how to escape those explosions), and another ASI/feat. That takes us up to 14th level. Fighter 6 lands us another feat (15th level.) Rogue 9/10/11 gets us Supreme Sneak (and Half-Plate armor, if we want, since the advantage will cancel out the disadvantage and we are about to get...) Reliable Talent (and an ASI) so all of our skills (6, or 9 if you've decided to go the full Batman and grab the Skilled Feat) are automatically 10s, with stats, proficiency, and expertise throwing many of them into the minimum 20-something range. Finish out with Fighter 7 and 8 to end on an ASI.

[Ralanr]

-snip-

Huh...Honestly I was avoiding monk due to it being very obvious in a batman build. But this...This is god damn genius.

[AvatarVecna]

<insert "gestalt does superheroes better" rant>

With that out of the way, here's the only thing I think I can add to this: Batman can be well represented by a good number of single-classed and multiclassed builds, depending on what version of Batman you're going for. A straight combatant with some skills can be the Battlemaster; a "bringing evil men to justice" Batman could be a Paladin or Ranger with some skills; a Rogue can be the skillmaster and hidden predator Batman; a Monk can be the unarmed badass with some extra skills; hell, if you want to make Batman a more literal creature of the night, you could even make a decent Batman out of a Bladelock making good use of Darkness and Devil's Sight. Similarly, every class here can be combined in various pairs (or trios, or more) to make a decent Batman.

The biggest problem with making Batman in 5e is how limiting point-buy is, since the concept of Batman has him pretty all-around awesome, and no stat is really a dump-stat for the ideal Batman. This is one of the reasons I prefer gestalt: if you got double stat boosts/feats and twice as many class features, you could make a much more powerful (and thus, more ideally accurate) Batman.

[Ralanr]

<insert "gestalt does superheroes better" rant>

With that out of the way, here's the only thing I think I can add to this: Batman can be well represented by a good number of single-classed and multiclassed builds, depending on what version of Batman you're going for. A straight combatant with some skills can be the Battlemaster; a "bringing evil men to justice" Batman could be a Paladin or Ranger with some skills; a Rogue can be the skillmaster and hidden predator Batman; a Monk can be the unarmed badass with some extra skills; hell, if you want to make Batman a more literal creature of the night, you could even make a decent Batman out of a Bladelock making good use of Darkness and Devil's Sight. Similarly, every class here can be combined in various pairs (or trios, or more) to make a decent Batman.

The biggest problem with making Batman in 5e is how limiting point-buy is, since the concept of Batman has him pretty all-around awesome, and no stat is really a dump-stat for the ideal Batman. This is one of the reasons I prefer gestalt: if you got double stat boosts/feats and twice as many class features, you could make a much more powerful (and thus, more ideally accurate) Batman.

The main focus I intended for this batman build was strictly how he has no superpowers (aside from being stupid rich). Combining nonmagical classes that best suit him in the broader and more general sense of batman. The d4 damage makes the build really low in damage at mid to late game, which is why I push the manuvers.

That's why I was worried about taking ranger levels.

Edit: though this would need very good rolls

[Ardantis]

Monk makes unarmed attacks key off of Dexterity. It could be argued that this would also allow for Sneak Attack, with DM permission of course.

[Giant2005]

The Mariner Fighting Style is far more apt than the Defensive Fighting Style.

I'd go Battlemaster 11/Monk 1/Spell-less Hunter 3/Thief 5 for Batman.

Actually, on second thought I might consider Champion 11/Monk 1/Spell-less Hunter 3/ Assassin 5. That way he can get the extra leaping ability from Champion, Maneuvers from Hunter and get Batman's traditional Ambush bonuses from Assassin.

[Ralanr]

The Mariner Fighting Style is far more apt than the Defensive Fighting Style.

I'd go Battlemaster 11/Monk 1/Spell-less Hunter 3/Thief 5 for Batman.

Actually, on second thought I might consider Champion 11/Monk 1/Spell-less Hunter 3/ Assassin 5. That way he can get the extra leaping ability from Champion, Maneuvers from Hunter and get Batman's traditional Ambush bonuses from Assassin.

The choices between thief and assassin...oh those are tough. Fast hands just works so perfectly with his trusty utility belt. But assassin advantage is really fitting also.

Damn rogue for having both batmans!

[Giant2005]

The choices between thief and assassin...oh those are tough. Fast hands just works so perfectly with his trusty utility belt. But assassin advantage is really fitting also.

Damn rogue for having both batmans!

Yeah it is too bad that you can't take both Thief and Assassin... If that were possible I'd drop some Fighter levels to fit in both. You really need at least 3 Expertise skills too (Stealth, Investigation, Intimidate) so the Fighter levels would have to drop for an extra level of Rogue anyway really. It is a shame to lose that third attack though... Batman really needs to be above level 20 to work perfectly, although I guess you could forgo Expertise in Intimidate in lieu of Epic Boons that increase his Charisma to 30.

[Ralanr]

Yeah it is too bad that you can't take both Thief and Assassin... If that were possible I'd drop some Fighter levels to fit in both. You really need at least 3 Expertise skills too (Stealth, Investigation, Intimidate) so the Fighter levels would have to drop for an extra level of Rogue anyway really. It is a shame to lose that third attack though... Batman really needs to be above level 20 to work perfectly, although I guess you could forgo Expertise in Intimidate in lieu of Epic Boons that increase his Charisma to 30.

Honestly I think at least 7 levels of fighter work. Know your enemy seems like a very batman ability and it gives you 5 manuvers (can't spell) total. Spell less ranger gives 2 more, giving you 7 freaking maneuvers. At that point I think you've grabbed all the ones that aren't meant to directly help allies.

[djreynolds]

Human Variant grab martial adept, it will stack with battle-master

Fighter 4 battle-master

Rouge 4 assassin

Paladin vengeance 12

Taken right from the Death Dealers Handbook

Paladin spells have enough "fluff" for "deception and theatrics"

And I wouldn't take monk anyhow. High dexterity and charisma, 14 strength is okay cause you need it for athletics, grab skulker and alert and grab two fighting styles, hunter's mark, dual wield and duelist and auto crit, 3 ASI and two feats, go fighter first for con saves. Can be done with 27 point buy in

[Dimolyth]

As for me to "feel" like batman will mean no high physical stats. He is more "well-trained" and "prepared", than really strong. So, high stats and SADness will be definitely NOT, what I`ll aiming for.
Then, to abilities. The thing of Batman is timing and using all his staff to prevent actions of enemies. That is exactly Fast Hands and Action Surge (first round of combat: 2 actions + 1 use object action) - that leads to fighter2/rogue(thief)3. For tricks and actions there are Extra attack, Maneuvres (menace, riposte, etc) and decent ability checks for Attack Options (disarm, shove, grapple) - that will increase pool of resources for Batman.
Skill proficiencies. As for they are Investigate, Perception, Insight, Stealth, Athletics and History. Expertise would be all mighty Investigate and, as I think, Insight. Stealth (although its universal awesomeness in D&D) is not real Batman`s forté - he mainly use his equipment for obscuring mist equivalent or disguising ammunition (yes, magic items for them). Athletics for checks could be achieved also by magic items.
Dip in monk/taking tavern brawler is more designer choice. Monk will give you bonus action kick, tavern brawler - bonus action grapple. Monk lets you concentrate on DEX, tavern brawler augments STR. Monk is more story-wise for Bruce Wayne, but you can emulate it with a background.
Personally, for 10th level I would go fighter7/rogue3 for battlemaster`s appraise (definitely batman`s ability) and taking Tavern Brawler, Observant and Alert as feats (Vuman +2 from fighter), but you could equally go monk1/fighter6/rogue3.

[Ralanr]

In comparison to high stats being superman level, I'd agree. Except I don't think they are.

I think the closest 5e has to superman is if you shrunk an eymperion (CR 23 celestial thing that I can't spell) to medium size.

[xroads]

These would be how I make a Batman in 5e.


Race: Human Variant with the Skilled feat. That way he can have bettter access to skills not covered under class or background.
Class: Paladin with an Oath of Vengeance. Goes well with Batman's dark knight and vengeance vigilante theme.
Background: Noble. Bruce Wayne is basically of modern aristocracy.

[djreynolds]

These would be how I make a Batman in 5e.


Race: Human Variant with the Skilled feat. That way he can have bettter access to skills not covered under class or background.
Class: Paladin with an Oath of Vengeance. Goes well with Batman's dark knight and vengeance vigilante theme.
Background: Noble. Bruce Wayne is basically of modern aristocracy.


Yes yes yes. Paladin and assassin. Death dealers handbook. He has a build. Simply nasty. It's 4 fighter, 3 assassin, 13 paladin of vengeance. You'd have to roll well. And the best thing about this Batman... No Robin.

But seriously, paladins can be anything now. And it fits.