"Fallen" Angel - a brainstorming thread

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

after preplaying the Diablo 3 campaign I think Tyrael's sacrifice would make a good basis for a PC (or an important NPC):


https://youtube.com/EXYv_e29ZrM?t=35s

Tyrael sees the uprising of the next Diablo and is bound to inaction by his divine vows as a member of the Angiris Council. Whereas he could help the hero in battle in the last game but was bound to inaction, now he is a mere mortal while the hero is a nephalem, a chosen one, and thus can only protect the innocent.

Problems arise aplenty: First, which race would you choose? Aasimar jumps to mind but I can see the High Heavens stripping the PC of all its heritage and thus making him completely human. Secondly I would prefer a class with a divine theme but I don't think a character that has willingly sacrificed divine gifts would pray to a god or gods. I can also not see him or her being a completely arcane caster. Then I would love for the character to have at least SOME melee capability. Paladin jumps to mind but I guess the fall is inclined with a shift from LG to NG.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?

We could stat out "mortal Tyrael" according to the Diablo 3 campaign including Reaper of Souls (but I guess the shield he conjured against Malthael's Soul Collecting was part of his weapon, El'Druin (which is likely an +5 Holy Weapon with a custom enchantment to spare lawful creatures).

[Extra Anchovies]

I've actually homebrewed a character class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412921-The-Champion-(Base-Class)) that's based on the concepts behind Tyrael and other individuals devoted to a cause rather than an entity or group of entities. It's designed to be rather high-powered, though, and may not be entirely what you're looking for. I'm mostly linking it because the header image I chose is almost identical to the embedded video's preview image.

Race-wise they'd definitely be human. Maybe they'd be a Zealot (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q4D20jGzBhIwpLSzl7GNVMzVZVewU9d8MdovIK8Ts_g/edit), or possibly Oracle/Zealot/Battle Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/battle-templar)?

[Red Fel]

I don't see a problem with Aasimar; they're effectively mortals with just a touch of the sacred about them. But Human could work too.

If you can convert it, I'd suggest the Wedded to History feat; consider the possibility that, although "mortal," he is ageless, and run from there. Bonus points if you follow it with the Voice of Bitter Experience feat, but replace talking about your dead deity with talking about your own sacrifice and frustration. I mean, that's basically what happens in the clip, except he shows rather than tells.

I also agree that Oracle is a nice choice, particularly when you take curses into account. As to mysteries, Battle and Metal seem to fit his warrior history very well; Ancestor fits his spirituality (and hey, summonable shield); and Solar, among other things, lets you turn into a blazing ball of light - which is like recapturing a fragment of what this guy was.

[Kahlendrrari]

If you're looking for a "Fallen" angel, such as one who has earned the disfavor of the heavens, go with aasimar, paladin of tyranny/slaughter into Ur-Priest. Nothing says F you better than becoming an antithesis of what you once stood for.

Paladin of tyranny/slaughter - a mockery of the champions of all that is good. You are the Yin to their Yang. You stand against everything they fight for.
Ur-Priest - The theft of the power that deities grant mortals for the use of it against them.

It's just a damn shame that the blackguard class is pretty much garbage.

sorry, I didn't see the pathfinder tag

[Spore]

Thanks Anchovies your homebrew looks very promising but I'm not sure if my group accepts a homebrew class of that magnitude. Still worth considering.


I don't see a problem with Aasimar; they're effectively mortals with just a touch of the sacred about them. But Human could work too.

Yeah.


If you can convert it, I'd suggest the Wedded to History feat; consider the possibility that, although "mortal," he is ageless, and run from there. Bonus points if you follow it with the Voice of Bitter Experience feat, but replace talking about your dead deity with talking about your own sacrifice and frustration. I mean, that's basically what happens in the clip, except he shows rather than tells.

Can I have some sources on both feats (or what they do?). They're not open source, but my friend has enough 3.5 books that I may find them there.


I also agree that Oracle is a nice choice, particularly when you take curses into account. As to mysteries, Battle and Metal seem to fit his warrior history very well; Ancestor fits his spirituality (and hey, summonable shield); and Solar, among other things, lets you turn into a blazing ball of light - which is like recapturing a fragment of what this guy was.

This would then mark my third oracle (don't get me wrong I like the class, its fluff and mechanics) but I am not even sure if it would get stale after some point. I like the mysteries of Life and Solar because I've tried neither. Oradin springs to mind and I would love to try a new build with it. The "legalistic" curse seems on point (with changed fluff of course).

[Sayt]

I actually see him as a God-less Paladin. His devotion to goodness and justice transcended Heaven's inaction.

[Red Fel]

Can I have some sources on both feats (or what they do?). They're not open source, but my friend has enough 3.5 books that I may find them there.

Both feats are from Dragon Magazine. I think number 354. Wedded to History allows you to choose one of several backgrounds (each with a benefit) to explain your ageless past. The background you want is Apostle of the Forgotten, which represents the profound loss felt from being the last follower of a long-extinct faith or deity (or, in your PC's case, clinging to the last vestiges of one's lost divinity). It gives a bonus to initiative and a 1/day mini-Augury SLA. The other feat, Voice of Bitter Experience, requires Apostle of the Forgotten (hence why you picked that one); it allows you to cause a divine spellcaster to become shaken for the remainder of the encounter by crushing his spirit by revealing the loss of your deity or your own mistakes. In short, exactly what Tyrael did in that clip.

I should note that, technically, Wedded to History does not actually make you ageless; that's the "Endless" quality, which I believe is in the same issue, that does that. Rather, Wedded to History explains the basis for your ageless wandering, and what it has done to you.

If you don't like the Apostle of the Forgotten background, similarly fitting options might include Elder of Legend (you're actually a legendary figure, and you gain a bonus on social rolls when people figure out who you really are) or Wanderer (you've been wandering for so long you've forgotten why; you can use skills untrained and speak unknown languages with an Int check). Their follow-up feats aren't quite worth it, though.

And, of course, if Dragon Magazine is off the table, well, that kind of puts the kibosh on the whole thing, doesn't it?

[the_archduke]

Warder with the Silver Crane discipline?

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Grayguard you will do what is necessary for the greater good and give no ****s. Gives you got the holy avenger vibe but after that it is really up to you. Oh lesser Asimar would make more sense. Your divine heritage was stripped from you. Oh Crusader would be a pretty solid holy vigilante.

If your going evil blackguard or paladin of slaughter because your tired of following the rules and will do what you think is necessary. Either way I think a non lawful path, I mean you left heaven because of their dumb rules.

[Psyren]

My problem with Aasimar is that they're Outsiders, and he is explicitly human (i.e. he needs to eat, even if he isn't very good at it yet.) At best I would make him Scion of Humanity, or maybe even port in Lesser Aasimar, but ultimately human fits his current crunch best.

Class-wise I'd actually go with Paladin (going with the bonded weapon rather than the mount.) He doesn't appear to have nearly enough magic to be an Oracle, all his power appears to be coming from his sword at present.

[Spore]

Warder with the Silver Crane discipline?

These books aren't on our roster yet. I've to get it and its maneuver system approved which sadly possibly won't happen unless the book Path of War is released in Germany.


Grayguard you will do what is necessary for the greater good and give no ****s. Gives you got the holy avenger vibe but after that it is really up to you. Oh lesser Asimar would make more sense. Your divine heritage was stripped from you. Oh Crusader would be a pretty solid holy vigilante.

If your going evil blackguard or paladin of slaughter because your tired of following the rules and will do what you think is necessary. Either way I think a non lawful path, I mean you left heaven because of their dumb rules.

I'd really prefer something along the lines of Inquisitor or Sacred Shield. Any build that is more on the defensive side and skillfully inclined. After all, he motivates his allies, never seems to loose hope and uses his powers to defend the citadel's inhabitants when they get attacked by Azmodan et al. Justice will be met but not at the cost of hundreds of mortal lives.

As for the lesser Aasimar: This is a Pathfinder thread. We have our own Aasimar Outsider ECL +0 race. It's outsider but can at least appear humanoid.


Both feats are from Dragon Magazine. I think number 354. Wedded to History allows you to choose one of several backgrounds (each with a benefit) to explain your ageless past. The background you want is Apostle of the Forgotten, which represents the profound loss felt from being the last follower of a long-extinct faith or deity (or, in your PC's case, clinging to the last vestiges of one's lost divinity). It gives a bonus to initiative and a 1/day mini-Augury SLA. The other feat, Voice of Bitter Experience, requires Apostle of the Forgotten (hence why you picked that one); it allows you to cause a divine spellcaster to become shaken for the remainder of the encounter by crushing his spirit by revealing the loss of your deity or your own mistakes. In short, exactly what Tyrael did in that clip.

I should note that, technically, Wedded to History does not actually make you ageless; that's the "Endless" quality, which I believe is in the same issue, that does that. Rather, Wedded to History explains the basis for your ageless wandering, and what it has done to you.

If you don't like the Apostle of the Forgotten background, similarly fitting options might include Elder of Legend (you're actually a legendary figure, and you gain a bonus on social rolls when people figure out who you really are) or Wanderer (you've been wandering for so long you've forgotten why; you can use skills untrained and speak unknown languages with an Int check). Their follow-up feats aren't quite worth it, though.

And, of course, if Dragon Magazine is off the table, well, that kind of puts the kibosh on the whole thing, doesn't it?

Any way to get those issues legally (pref. digitally as I only need them for this single instance)? And depending on the power of said feats I could possibly just use a trait slot for it.


My problem with Aasimar is that they're Outsiders, and he is explicitly human (i.e. he needs to eat, even if he isn't very good at it yet.) At best I would make him Scion of Humanity, or maybe even port in Lesser Aasimar, but ultimately human fits his current crunch best.

Native outsiders need to eat and sleep. I see no problem here. But I see your point. He is human and there is not even a hint of divinity left (except for El'Druin).


Class-wise I'd actually go with Paladin (going with the bonded weapon rather than the mount.) He doesn't appear to have nearly enough magic to be an Oracle, all his power appears to be coming from his sword at present.

If I really went this route, I'd go and explain all magic with his weapon anyways. It lost all its glamor and powers but it is still a formidable weapon (maybe even forged from materials making it cheaper to enchant it with an holy enchantment) and giving him Sacred Shield (Bastion of Good can be refluffed).

[dysprosium]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Path of War stuff is on the pfsrd.

Also Paizo sells their old Dragon Magazines digitally on their website.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

I'd really prefer something along the lines of Inquisitor or Sacred Shield. Any build that is more on the defensive side and skillfully inclined. After all, he motivates his allies, never seems to loose hope and uses his powers to defend the citadel's inhabitants when they get attacked by Azmodan et al. Justice will be met but not at the cost of hundreds of mortal lives.

As for the lesser Aasimar: This is a Pathfinder thread. We have our own Aasimar Outsider ECL +0 race. It's outsider but can at least appear humanoid.

Yeah I realized that after I posted.... I have failed you senpai.

[Spore]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Path of War stuff is on the pfsrd.

Also Paizo sells their old Dragon Magazines digitally on their website.

Thanks.


Yeah I realized that after I posted.... I have failed you senpai.

Yes. Your chances with me are getting smaller by the minute. I expected more!

[Psyren]

Native outsiders need to eat and sleep. I see no problem here. But I see your point. He is human and there is not even a hint of divinity left (except for El'Druin).

I don't know that I'd call him native even but you're right. Still, he is definitely human.


If I really went this route, I'd go and explain all magic with his weapon anyways. It lost all its glamor and powers but it is still a formidable weapon (maybe even forged from materials making it cheaper to enchant it with an holy enchantment) and giving him Sacred Shield (Bastion of Good can be refluffed).

El'Druin does have power left. He uses it to open the way to Diablo for instance. It didn't do anything to Malthael, sure, but Malthael is 1337 r347ity h4xx0r anyway.

[Spore]

El'Druin does have power left. He uses it to open the way to Diablo for instance. It didn't do anything to Malthael, sure, but Malthael is 1337 r347ity h4xx0r anyway.

It says on some random wiki that Malthaels goals and intents were just (just made in a terrible haze of delusion) and thus El'Druin couldn't harm him. But I can see El'Druin being bound to his divine state as he had forged it from his very substance.

Seeing and reading about this makes me want to have a non-intelligent bound weapon on him. Preferrably not DM fiat. Divine Bond is cool but I am looking for something more along the lines of permanent yet smaller bonus.