Titanium9208
2015-07-09, 06:10 PM
Hey,
I am planning on fitting a demon into my 3.5 campaign as the head of a cult and I was planning on fitting like 10 followers into that group. The problem I am running into is that the Creature I want to use as the Fiend of Blasphemy is a bit more of a caster and not so powerfull in combat. He starts at Challenge Rating 8. Adding 6 levels of Fiend of Blasphemy should put him around CR 13 or 14. I would not normally expect my lvl 7 party to try killing it, and i would be happy with that, except for a few unusual circumstances:
1. The world I created for the players combines a number of planes into only a few. In this case, Genies are demons/devils depending on alignment and all demons and devils come from only one very large Hell, making Genies Outsiders. Fudging an Efreeti's skill points to meet the knowledge(religion) requirement and reassigning feats, I can make him qualify for the class. I guess that was more of an explanation.
2. Adding the six levels to the Efreeti, I see that his health total only goes up to about 100. More or less if I reroll it, but only maxing at like 140, give or take. His only resistance is Immunity to Fire, he is vulnerable to Cold, and his Armor class is only 18. At CR 13 or 14?? (can I give an Efreeti Armor?) His base attack bonus is high, and he learns some semi decent cleric spells, but at level 14 (Monster Manual doesnt specify Efreeti race level adjustment, so this is an estimation) those spells arent nearly as good as he could have been as a cleric, especially when he only gets a base of one for most of his 5 spell levels. He doesnt get more uses of his spell like abilities. His racial fire damage doesnt increase at all. At this rate, six levels got him mediocre heatlh, okay attack bonus, Pretty good saving throws, and a tiny spell list. What Im trying to say is that he will be sharing his tiny ability list and tiny spell list with his 10 servants. At that rate, his abilities get used up without him and he is almost as easy to kill as the CR 8 version, which is 6 levels lower!
3. Unfortunately, I can't tell my friends they cant play D&D with me because im playing with my other friends. So we have a party size of 7 level 7 characters. One is a battlemage/elemental Savant focusing lightning and has sudden maximize, a Fighter with a spiked chain, a bugbear barbarian that rolled very well on health and constitution, a cleric learning cyst spells, a rogue/disciple of Baalzebul, a wizard/bloodmagus, and ranged warlock/acolyte of the skin with Abberation feats. This means that, at this point, we they are very powerful if they coordinate. They can easily expect to vanquish a CR 10 monster by itself because they have someone for everything and they get 7 turns in a round, often before the monster even moves depending on initiative. In the same hand, I custom built a couple Drow Wizards that blew them apart with ease until they got past the wall of fire. The CR required to tax them is getting so high that each individual is at a real risk of dying with every encounter.
4. Those being said, this barely improved CR14 Efreeti will not stand in their way by himself, i guarentee it. He could split up his abilities among his cultists and pull off more per round, but thats not making the Efreeti much more powerful; it means that I have a swarm to increase Encounter CR. Which, as DM, I could do that at any time without using a fiend of blasphemy. Also, it seems to me that any cleric worth putting into this cult has to survive a hit from fireball,lightning bolt, or just not get cleaved to death by a massively buffed barbarian so they dont all die at once. And at a level that can expect to do that, they already know most of the Fiends spells, making his ability to Sponsor them almost worthless.
What I am trying to get at is that i feel the Fiend of Blasphemy (Fiend Folio) just seems a bit poinless and under powered unless there is a special strategy to using it that I can't see right now. It looks like the only hope the cult has is to us the efreeti's three wishes on one of the cultists. the problem with that strategy is that they could have been aligned with the efreeti before he took Fiend of Blasphemy and used them when he was CR 8. CR 14 should be an absurd fight for my players, but this wouldnt be and its dumb.
Really, i was hoping to get some input and ideas for modifying this class to make it more helpfull to the player that wants to use it after Acolyte of the Skin, or make the monster more significant and spread less thin. I dont want to just equip the Efreeti with a stack of powerfull magic items to balance him, the players could still triumph and be stupid rich afterword. I would like help fixing the class.
I am planning on fitting a demon into my 3.5 campaign as the head of a cult and I was planning on fitting like 10 followers into that group. The problem I am running into is that the Creature I want to use as the Fiend of Blasphemy is a bit more of a caster and not so powerfull in combat. He starts at Challenge Rating 8. Adding 6 levels of Fiend of Blasphemy should put him around CR 13 or 14. I would not normally expect my lvl 7 party to try killing it, and i would be happy with that, except for a few unusual circumstances:
1. The world I created for the players combines a number of planes into only a few. In this case, Genies are demons/devils depending on alignment and all demons and devils come from only one very large Hell, making Genies Outsiders. Fudging an Efreeti's skill points to meet the knowledge(religion) requirement and reassigning feats, I can make him qualify for the class. I guess that was more of an explanation.
2. Adding the six levels to the Efreeti, I see that his health total only goes up to about 100. More or less if I reroll it, but only maxing at like 140, give or take. His only resistance is Immunity to Fire, he is vulnerable to Cold, and his Armor class is only 18. At CR 13 or 14?? (can I give an Efreeti Armor?) His base attack bonus is high, and he learns some semi decent cleric spells, but at level 14 (Monster Manual doesnt specify Efreeti race level adjustment, so this is an estimation) those spells arent nearly as good as he could have been as a cleric, especially when he only gets a base of one for most of his 5 spell levels. He doesnt get more uses of his spell like abilities. His racial fire damage doesnt increase at all. At this rate, six levels got him mediocre heatlh, okay attack bonus, Pretty good saving throws, and a tiny spell list. What Im trying to say is that he will be sharing his tiny ability list and tiny spell list with his 10 servants. At that rate, his abilities get used up without him and he is almost as easy to kill as the CR 8 version, which is 6 levels lower!
3. Unfortunately, I can't tell my friends they cant play D&D with me because im playing with my other friends. So we have a party size of 7 level 7 characters. One is a battlemage/elemental Savant focusing lightning and has sudden maximize, a Fighter with a spiked chain, a bugbear barbarian that rolled very well on health and constitution, a cleric learning cyst spells, a rogue/disciple of Baalzebul, a wizard/bloodmagus, and ranged warlock/acolyte of the skin with Abberation feats. This means that, at this point, we they are very powerful if they coordinate. They can easily expect to vanquish a CR 10 monster by itself because they have someone for everything and they get 7 turns in a round, often before the monster even moves depending on initiative. In the same hand, I custom built a couple Drow Wizards that blew them apart with ease until they got past the wall of fire. The CR required to tax them is getting so high that each individual is at a real risk of dying with every encounter.
4. Those being said, this barely improved CR14 Efreeti will not stand in their way by himself, i guarentee it. He could split up his abilities among his cultists and pull off more per round, but thats not making the Efreeti much more powerful; it means that I have a swarm to increase Encounter CR. Which, as DM, I could do that at any time without using a fiend of blasphemy. Also, it seems to me that any cleric worth putting into this cult has to survive a hit from fireball,lightning bolt, or just not get cleaved to death by a massively buffed barbarian so they dont all die at once. And at a level that can expect to do that, they already know most of the Fiends spells, making his ability to Sponsor them almost worthless.
What I am trying to get at is that i feel the Fiend of Blasphemy (Fiend Folio) just seems a bit poinless and under powered unless there is a special strategy to using it that I can't see right now. It looks like the only hope the cult has is to us the efreeti's three wishes on one of the cultists. the problem with that strategy is that they could have been aligned with the efreeti before he took Fiend of Blasphemy and used them when he was CR 8. CR 14 should be an absurd fight for my players, but this wouldnt be and its dumb.
Really, i was hoping to get some input and ideas for modifying this class to make it more helpfull to the player that wants to use it after Acolyte of the Skin, or make the monster more significant and spread less thin. I dont want to just equip the Efreeti with a stack of powerfull magic items to balance him, the players could still triumph and be stupid rich afterword. I would like help fixing the class.