Beast master questions

[The Shadowdove]

Hey guys,

I am kind of confused by beast master stuff...

I'm wondering if the raw actually means what it says... Which seems to make the beast kind of mmmm... Limited.

The pet always stays cr 1/4? Even for level 10,15, 20, demigods?

If a beast master has his ferocious pet sink it's teeth or claws into a juicy bandit on turn 1, but doesn't on turn 2... Does it just sit there looking threatening?

If fluffems dies, let's say a mountain lion, the beast master can spend 8 hours magically connecting to another pet.
-does this happen over a long rest?
-does the beast master decide what kind of pet?

What happens if the beast master doesn't tell their pet to do anything while they're still conscious?

Are there any ways to get more or higher cr animal companions?

Let's hear what you've come to understand about beast master.

Feel free to include any advice, tips, tricks, and amusing stories involving the beast master !!

-Dove

[Giant2005]

You can't get a companion with a CR higher than 1/4, but you do boost their abilities enough for them to be the equivalent of a higher CR creature.
For example, a level 20 Ranger's Giant Poisonous Snake companion inflicts 58 damage per round on average (Using the DMG's monster creation metric) with +12 to-hit which gives it an offensive CR of 11. It has 80 HP and an AC of 26 (With Barding) which gives it a Defensive CR of 7. By averaging those out, you have the equivalent of a CR 9 creature which is higher than anything the Moon Druid can transform into.

[Gurka]

Yes it's very limited. It CAN be made reasonably effective I believe, but yes it really is a furby, not an actual animal. It only acts on command, unless the controlling hunter is not present. In that case it acts under the DM's control.

As I understand it, by RAW, the pet will attack ONLY when you use your action to command it to do so, or as a Reaction (which it gets free of cost to you, the player) should it have the opportunity to do so.

That said, I believe one of the designers commented that they run it differently in their games, such that once commanded, the beast will continue to carry out that command to the best of it's ability in iterative rounds, without having to spend your attack or bonus action every turn for it to do anything. I may be wrong on this though, it's late and my head is a bit fuzzy.

Edit: And no, on turn 2 the beast may not look threatening, as that might constitute an Intimidate attempt, which they are not allowed. The beast may only look docile and harmless. Perhaps it rolls over for a belly rub between maulings.

[The Shadowdove]

Yes it's very limited. It CAN be made reasonably effective I believe, but yes it really is a furby, not an actual animal. It only acts on command, unless the controlling hunter is not present. In that case it acts under the DM's control.

As I understand it, by RAW, the pet will attack ONLY when you use your action to command it to do so, or as a Reaction (which it gets free of cost to you, the player) should it have the opportunity to do so.

That said, I believe one of the designers commented that they run it differently in their games, such that once commanded, the beast will continue to carry out that command to the best of it's ability in iterative rounds, without having to spend your attack or bonus action every turn for it to do anything. I may be wrong on this though, it's late and my head is a bit fuzzy.



Thanks for both of your answers

I'd love to see this designer comment

Also, where do people ask the designers questions? I keep seeing people with quotes from the designers that help clear things up or rebalance stuff.

I wish the phb had beast master commands like that

[Gurka]

Thanks for both of your answers

I'd love to see this designer comment

Also, where do people ask the designers questions? I keep seeing people with quotes from the designers that help clear things up or rebalance stuff.

I wish the phb had beast master commands like that

They're mostly through twitter. I'd dig it up for you, but I'll leave it to somebody with more gumption.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that beastmasters are generally fine if you ignore most of the action restrictions and allow them to have their pet and eat it too.

That is to say, It's a creature with a brain, thus the beastmaster uses thier bonus action to issue it a command (such as "kill") and it will attempt to accomplish the task given to the best of it's physical and reasoning ability (as the DM sees fit), until a different order is issued. We've been doing this is our most recent game, and so far it has not resulted in the BM being overpowered. More powerful, yes, but not out of line with the other players, and they're having a lot more fun doing it.

In our previous game, which got a bit meta, we used the BM archetype RAW, and eventually the player got frustrated enough with it that, in game, he fashioned a joy stick out of wood so that he could sit in the back and "control" his pet during fights.

[PoeticDwarf]

Hey guys,

I am kind of confused by beast master stuff...

I'm wondering if the raw actually means what it says... Which seems to make the beast kind of mmmm... Limited.

The pet always stays cr 1/4? Even for level 10,15, 20, demigods?

If a beast master has his ferocious pet sink it's teeth or claws into a juicy bandit on turn 1, but doesn't on turn 2... Does it just sit there looking threatening?

If fluffems dies, let's say a mountain lion, the beast master can spend 8 hours magically connecting to another pet.
-does this happen over a long rest?
-does the beast master decide what kind of pet?

What happens if the beast master doesn't tell their pet to do anything while they're still conscious?

Are there any ways to get more or higher cr animal companions?

Let's hear what you've come to understand about beast master.

Feel free to include any advice, tips, tricks, and amusing stories involving the beast master !!

-Dove

Because your prof. gets up, your beast gets stronger. So his AC is at lv. 3 prob. 14 but at lv. 17 it's 18. It's HP becomes later 80. His attack and damage goes up with your prof.

[Person_Man]

The pet always stays cr 1/4? Even for level 10,15, 20, demigods?

Correct.

Though its important to note that it does gain multiple benefits from your Proficiency bonus, which does scale. In many cases your Companion actually has a higher to-hit then you do.



If a beast master has his ferocious pet sink it's teeth or claws into a juicy bandit on turn 1, but doesn't on turn 2... Does it just sit there looking threatening?

Correct, unless the Beast Master Ranger is dead or incapacitated, and then the DM can decide that it acts to protect itself or you. (This was clarified in the errata).


If fluffems dies, let's say a mountain lion, the beast master can spend 8 hours magically connecting to another pet.
-does this happen over a long rest?
-does the beast master decide what kind of pet?

The first part is arguably ambiguous and thus a DM call, I think its clearly the intent that your Companion can be replaced once per day when you take a Long Rest, though they should have just written "as part of a Long Rest."

The answer to the second part is yes.


What happens if the beast master doesn't tell their pet to do anything while they're still conscious?

It stands there and does nothing.

A commonly proposed house rule is that the Beast should act like a normal creature, and act to defend itself or retreat at the DM's discretion.



Are there any ways to get more or higher cr animal companions?

No. This was done intentionally, because it makes more narrative sense for you to form a bond with a single Companion over a long period of time (like the archetypical Drizzit) rather then abandoning your Companion for a better one every time you gain a level, it requires less system mastery (you don't have to read through the Monster Manual to find the best Companion every time you gain a level), its protects the Ranger from unintentional codex creep (if some designer writes a higher CR Beast for some splat book, they don't have to worry about its impact on the Beastmaster Ranger), and its a lot simpler to write and explain.

A higher CR Companion would likely be broken if it also scales with your Proficiency bonus, since higher CR Beasts also have higher Str/Dex/Con/AC/etc.

A reasonable house rule would be to remove the Proficiency scaling, and allow the player to choose a new Companion approved by the DM when they gain a level that is roughly equal in power to creatures that can be Conjured at that level.


[QUOTE=The Shadowdove;19514093]Feel free to include any advice, tips, tricks, and amusing stories involving the beast master !!

Here's a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405369-Beastmaster-Ranger-Not-as-terrible-as-it-seems) of analysis and suggested DM interpretations and house rules on the subject.

[Easy_Lee]

Person_Man is correct. The BM is not necessarily terrible, just poorly designed and particularly susceptible to killer DMs. The biggest issue with the creature is keeping it alive, since it only gets death saving throws if your DM allows it.

If you're looking to make it a bit stronger, you can play a halfling and try riding it with mounted combatant and an exotic saddle. That fixes its survival issues for the most part. If you want it a bit more interesting to play, I would see what your DM thinks about the following:

Let BM change the beast's size via an action or ritual - no real mechanical benefit beyond non halflings riding the creature, but would be useful in tight quarters and towns.
Let rhe BM see through his pet's eyes as an action, similar to what chain warlocks can do - again, more fluff and out of combat benefit than anything.
Give the beast death saving throws.

[GiantOctopodes]

If you're going to be a halfling or gnome and ride it, one of the better options imho is the vulture. It's medium, it flies, and who doesn't like a flying platform from which to rain death down upon your enemies?

[Easy_Lee]

Iwho doesn't like a flying platform from which to rain death down upon your enemies?

The DM. This is the main reason why I wouldn't use a pteranodon.

[GiantOctopodes]

The DM. This is the main reason why I wouldn't use a pteranodon.

haha true, but then again, it's no different from being an Aarakocera ranger, right?

[Sindeloke]

You can't get a companion with a CR higher than 1/4, but you do boost their abilities enough for them to be the equivalent of a higher CR creature.
For example, a level 20 Ranger's Giant Poisonous Snake companion inflicts 58 damage per round on average (Using the DMG's monster creation metric) with +12 to-hit which gives it an offensive CR of 11. It has 80 HP and an AC of 26 (With Barding) which gives it a Defensive CR of 7. By averaging those out, you have the equivalent of a CR 9 creature which is higher than anything the Moon Druid can transform into.

How are you putting barding on a snake?

[Millface]

Yes it's very limited. It CAN be made reasonably effective I believe, but yes it really is a furby, not an actual animal. It only acts on command, unless the controlling hunter is not present. In that case it acts under the DM's control.

As I understand it, by RAW, the pet will attack ONLY when you use your action to command it to do so, or as a Reaction (which it gets free of cost to you, the player) should it have the opportunity to do so.

That said, I believe one of the designers commented that they run it differently in their games, such that once commanded, the beast will continue to carry out that command to the best of it's ability in iterative rounds, without having to spend your attack or bonus action every turn for it to do anything. I may be wrong on this though, it's late and my head is a bit fuzzy.

Edit: And no, on turn 2 the beast may not look threatening, as that might constitute an Intimidate attempt, which they are not allowed. The beast may only look docile and harmless. Perhaps it rolls over for a belly rub between maulings.


Thats how I DMed it, I would like to see that actually "patched" so to speak. The ranger at my table has to tell his pet to attack a target only once, and the pet will do so on its own until the target drops or he is told otherwise. Switching targets or attacking a new target once again requires an action.

That alone set him on par with the rest of the damage dealers against anything that didn't have hefty AoE damage. A couple fireballs or a breath weapon though and the pet was out round one and worthless.

[Easy_Lee]

haha true, but then again, it's no different from being an Aarakocera ranger, right?

Yeah, but I wouldn't play one of those either. Same reason.