Damage from large/extremely heavy falling objects

[Gurka]

Are there currently rules for taking damage from large/heavy objects? I can't seem to find my DMG, so I can't check there, but I certainly don't see anything in my PH about it. If there are, it opens some interesting possibilities for me. If there aren't, then there need to be. Anybody know off hand if these rules exist already?

[DragonLordIT]

Are there currently rules for taking damage from large/heavy objects? I can't seem to find my DMG, so I can't check there, but I certainly don't see anything in my PH about it. If there are, it opens some interesting possibilities for me. If there aren't, then there need to be. Anybody know off hand if these rules exist already?

I think there is not an explicit rule for that. You could use the damage scale of a falling pcs; for every 10 ft of falling a large object would deal 1d10 damage; you could allow a dex saving throw the halve the damage, you could say that very large objects targets a large area, that particoularly heavy objects (a statue of adamantium) deals double damage; for strange objects you could add spicy effects, such restraining (a box of tar crushing no ground), knocking prone (a log on the back), even stunning (a brick behind your neck). You could invent anything you want, just let a saving throw or a skill check, don't let the effects be invevitable.
:smallwink::smallwink:

[silverkyo]

There isn't from what I've seen, so you'll probably have to make your own. maybe 1d6 per 10 ft it fell for something small, then 1d8 for something medium, and so on scaling things appropriately

[PoeticDwarf]

There isn't from what I've seen, so you'll probably have to make your own. maybe 1d6 per 10 ft it fell for something small, then 1d8 for something medium, and so on scaling things appropriately

That sounds for me like the best.

But the difference has to be larger.
1d4 per 10ft for a small object
1d6 medium
1d10 large
3d6 huge
3d12 gargantuan

It would be too easy to survive a Terrasque falling on your head.

[MrStabby]

Whatever force the falling object hits you with on top of you is matched underneath by the support from the ground. With this in mind you get hit twice as you get sandwiched between a rock and a hard place. Add a bit of crushing damage over time as you struggle to get free (possibly amount you fail a strength save by). Setting up traps to crush people could be nasty.

[GiantOctopodes]

Just keep in mind that the maximum possible falling damage is 20d6. Personally I'd just have a falling object deal the same amount of damage as it is taking (physics and all).

[KorvinStarmast]

Take a look at the damage done by a Piercer. It is a falling object. Scale up or down from that based on creature size. But don't pretend we are dealing with physics here ... we are dealing with game mechanics for the sake of playability.

One key to falling damage is kinetic energy, not necessarily mass, even though mass will have an impact. (Pun intended).

KE = 1/2 mv^2.

The scaling function by size shown above isn't that well considered. It's the difference between being hit by a bullet or an artillery shell. Your body armor won't help you with that 75 mm artillery shell. It will help you against a bullet.

From a materials and engineering point of view, you have strength limits that can be reflected in

a. Elastic deformation
b. Plastic deformation
c. Fracture/failure

a. You can bend that iron bar and it springs back.
b. You can bend that iron bar and it doesn't break, but it is permanently bent.
c. It breaks because the load is so great.

Modeling this on a living creature means that in "C" you are killed, B you are badly injured, and A you are hurt but can bounce back

Yes, it's a rough analogy, but the point is that when you exceed design load, it fails/breaks, it isn't just damaged.

1d4 per 10ft for a small object
1d6 medium
1d10 large
3d6 huge
3d12 gargantuan

This table exposes how bizarre this exercise is. Gargantuan is pointless on that table. For that matter, so is huge. If an elephant lands on you from 20 feet, is that really 6d6 damage? Or are you squashed like a bug. That's from the roof of a two story building. This is a pass fail quiz. The elephant either lands on your or it doesn't.

3d12 from ten feet for something that is gargantuan? If it falls on you from 10 feet up, you're dead. It might be as well.

Consider the transfer of momentum at the point of impact. (Why the golf ball goes faster than the driver head when you hit your tee shot).

M1V1 = M2V2 (Conservation of momentum) As noted in the other post, about the ground reacting to you. If V2 is small, then the effective mass hitting you that was traveling at M1V1 got really big. At that point, the m drives the equation, or as noted, you get damage from two directions, rock and hard place.

[GiantOctopodes]

Take a look at the damage done by a Piercer. It is a falling object. Scale up or down from that based on creature size. But don't pretend we are dealing with physics here ... we are dealing with game mechanics for the sake of playability.

One key to falling damage is kinetic energy, not necessarily mass, even though mass will have an impact. (Pun intended).

KE = 1/2 mv^2.

The scaling function by size shown above isn't that well considered. It's the difference between being hit by a bullet or an artillery shell. Your body armor won't help you with that 75 mm artillery shell. It will help you against a bullet.

From a materials and engineering point of view, you have strength limits that can be reflected in

a. Elastic deformation
b. Plastic deformation
c. Fracture/failure

a. You can bend that iron bar and it springs back.
b. You can bend that iron bar and it doesn't break, but it is permanently bent.
c. It breaks because the load is so great.

Modeling this on a living creature means that in "C" you are killed, B you are badly injured, and A you are hurt but can bounce back

Yes, it's a rough analogy, but the point is that when you exceed design load, it fails/breaks, it isn't just damaged.

1d4 per 10ft for a small object
1d6 medium
1d10 large
3d6 huge
3d12 gargantuan

This table exposes how bizarre this exercise is. Gargantuan is pointless on that table. For that matter, so is huge. If an elephant lands on you from 20 feet, is that really 6d6 damage? Or are you squashed like a bug. That's from the roof of a two story building. This is a pass fail quiz. The elephant either lands on your or it doesn't.

3d12 from ten feet for something that is gargantuan? If it falls on you from 10 feet up, you're dead. It might be as well.

Consider the transfer of momentum at the point of impact. (Why the golf ball goes faster than the driver head when you hit your tee shot).

M1V1 = M2V2 (Conservation of momentum) As noted in the other post, about the ground reacting to you. If V2 is small, then the effective mass hitting you that was traveling at M1V1 got really big. At that point, the m drives the equation, or as noted, you get damage from two directions, rock and hard place.

You miss four important things here:
1) Game physics have nothing to do with real world physics. Even the concept that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction is an extreme stretch.
2) Game physics involve reduction of variables for the sake of simplicity. There is a reason why they have falling damage set up the way that it is. Having excessive complexity in the damage a falling creature *deals* adds unnecessary complexity, especially when there is no such complexity in the damage a falling creature *takes*.
3) There is a reason falling damage is capped at 20d6. Game balance. Allowing that much damage from a falling creature means that an enlarged Aarakocera monk suddenly leaps to the top of the charts in terms of damage as it grabs the largest enemy on the battlefield, flies to 200' up, and drops it on its allies. Since Large and larger creatures take up multiple squares on the grid, you're essentially giving the players an AOE 60d6 at will attack whenever a huge creature makes an appearance.
4) Since the larger creatures under your setup *take* far less damage than they *deal*, for that matter your Barbarian / Druid Aarakocera buddy can just fly 200' up, then turn into an Elephant and drop on them. They take 1/2 (thanks to resistance) of 20d6, effectively 10d6 damage (probably not even enough to end the wildshape), but deal the aforementioned 60d6 damage to all enemies below.

So overall, no, I don't think setting it up like that is a good idea *at all* since it's easily and wildly (pun intended) exploitable.

[Slipperychicken]

Back in 3.5, you just took the fall damage (1d6 per 10ft, up to a max of 20d6 at 200ft), then added a d6 for every 50lb of the object's weight (no cap), and had a dex save (DC 15) to avoid it. IIRC whoever was dropping the object had to make an attack roll vs AC 5 to make sure they drop it on the right square.

[Millface]

I've never liked the rules that they've had in place. 1d10 per 10 feet for the first 40 feet maybe, but then you're getting into "I don't care how tough you are that's going to kill you" territory.

Once you hit terminal velocity you're toast. I refuse to DM a world where you can fall two thousand feet and survive from level 10 on.

if it came up more often or does come up often in your campaign I would suggest adding more and more severe effects. From 20 feet its 2d10 and save vs. broken ankle. Then at 40 feet its a broken ankle, save for broken legs/back. At 60 its a broken back save vs. death. At 100 and up its save vs. death with disadvantage (con). Some people have jumped out of planes and survived, some people have fallen out of a two story house and been paralyzed. I'll let you guess which is more likely.

I've never liked how ambiguous the damage you take is. Sometimes something is going to break, or be lobbed off and its going to affect how you continue the combat. Thats complicated though, so its not included in the mechanics. I understand that, but I draw the line at supposedly surviving a 5,000 lb. block of steel falling at terminal velocity straight onto your head.

TL;DR there are rules but they don't make sense to me, YMMV.

[KorvinStarmast]

You miss four important things here: I didn't miss anything.

See following statement by me.

But don't pretend we are dealing with physics here ... we are dealing with game mechanics for the sake of playability.

3) There is a reason falling damage is capped at 20d6. Game balance. Is that an arbitrary limit, or might someone have arrived at that with an eye toward terminal velocity. :smallbiggrin:


4) Since the larger creatures under your setup *take* far less damage than they *deal*

Where did I say that? Please, cite the words. (You will note that I suggested that the gargantuan may die from the 10' fall. That is the opposite of what you claimed that I said).

What my post illustrated is that we Are Not dealing in physics as we know it here on planet earth. But the secondary world MOSTLY works based on physics, and falling isn't a magical happening: it is a mundane happening.

Even so, the Secondary World is mostly like the Primary World (or world) otherwise the whole Fairy Story doesn't work.
(See Tolkien's essay on Fairy Stories for detailed treatment on how to resolve the Primary and Secondary (magical) worlds when crafting such stories ... which is what we do when playing this sort of RPG.)

[KorvinStarmast]

I've never liked the rules that they've had in place. 1d10 per 10 feet for the first 40 feet maybe, but then you're getting into "I don't care how tough you are that's going to kill you" territory.. You could make the 1d6 per 10' cumulative, sort of like an arithmetic progression.

First 10': 1d6.
Second 10": 1d6 + 2d6
Third 10': 1d6 + 2d6 + 3d6

And so on.

By the time you've fallen 60', that's 21 d6. That's close to the limit of 20 already in use for 5e. (Hell, with a roll of that many dice, what's a d6 here and there?)

[Millface]

You miss four important things here:
1) Game physics have nothing to do with real world physics. Even the concept that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction is an extreme stretch.
2) Game physics involve reduction of variables for the sake of simplicity. There is a reason why they have falling damage set up the way that it is. Having excessive complexity in the damage a falling creature *deals* adds unnecessary complexity, especially when there is no such complexity in the damage a falling creature *takes*.
3) There is a reason falling damage is capped at 20d6. Game balance. Allowing that much damage from a falling creature means that an enlarged Aarakocera monk suddenly leaps to the top of the charts in terms of damage as it grabs the largest enemy on the battlefield, flies to 200' up, and drops it on its allies. Since Large and larger creatures take up multiple squares on the grid, you're essentially giving the players an AOE 60d6 at will attack whenever a huge creature makes an appearance.

So overall, no, I don't think setting it up like that is a good idea *at all* since it's easily and wildly (pun intended) exploitable.

Game balance is why you can get hit 8 times with a longsword and survive. But you're not facing terminal velocity falls with regularity, and, in point of fact, should be trying very much to AVOID them. Its not game breaking if you make TV falling instant death. The game isn't Dungeons & Falls, we can afford some realism here.

And, I mean, if you can grapple AND carry a creature large enough to do that then by all means, have your schtick be picking big things up and dropping them. It doesn't break my game when people are creative with it. Though I hesitate to name a single character who's been through my world who could both Fly AND have the necessary strength/grapple to do something like that in any sort of controlled way.

[Warwick]

Attempting to apply teh realizms to a heroic fantasy game that already does a poor job modeling reality (partly because it doesn't try) is a fool's errand. Just run with the comic book physics and accept that a barbarian can survive having a tarrasque deorbited on top of them. I don't really see why that's a problem with all the other ridiculous nonsense going on. Alternatively, for really high drops, just apply the Chunky Salsa Rule.

[GiantOctopodes]

Is that an arbitrary limit, or might someone have arrived at that with an eye toward terminal velocity. :smallbiggrin:


an eye towards it, perhaps, but only one eye and it was squinting. Universally applied 'terminal velocity' without regard for the creature's size, aerodynamic properties, mass, or anything else that would apply in non-vacuum conditions.



Where did I say that? Please, cite the words.

so you also propose to deal that same damage to huge or gargantuan creatures? Well then, now you've given the party the means to kill all the enemies below, and wipe out a creature at the same time! An Ancient Black Dragon dropped from suitable height (after giving it the "restrained" condition) would deal in your proposed setup a total of 60d12 damage, or an average of 390 damage, to it and everything below it. Now an "Ensnaring Strike" spell is a "save or the entire encounter dies", which seems a little unbalanced for a 1st level spell.

[KorvinStarmast]

Attempting to apply teh realizms to a heroic fantasy game that already does a poor job modeling reality (partly because it doesn't try) is a fool's errand. Just run with the comic book physics and accept that a barbarian can survive having a tarrasque deorbited on top of them. I don't really see why that's a problem with all the other ridiculous nonsense going on. Alternatively, for really high drops, just apply the Chunky Salsa Rule.
That's what we all do in game, I think, so that means that we are are in violent agreement, in practice. :smallbiggrin:

[KorvinStarmast]

an eye towards it, perhaps, but only one eye and it was squinting. Universally applied 'terminal velocity' without regard for the creature's size, aerodynamic properties, mass, or anything else that would apply in non-vacuum conditions.
Indeed, which once again is where I pointed to the fact that we aren't using physics as we know it.

so you also propose to deal that same damage to huge or gargantuan creatures? I was responding to the table presented by the previous poster, and pointing out how the scales used were bizarre.

Please look up the term "suspension of disbelief." It applies to Fairy Stories as well as other forms of fiction.

[GiantOctopodes]

Game balance is why you can get hit 8 times with a longsword and survive. But you're not facing terminal velocity falls with regularity, and, in point of fact, should be trying very much to AVOID them. Its not game breaking if you make TV falling instant death. The game isn't Dungeons & Falls, we can afford some realism here.

And, I mean, if you can grapple AND carry a creature large enough to do that then by all means, have your schtick be picking big things up and dropping them. It doesn't break my game when people are creative with it. Though I hesitate to name a single character who's been through my world who could both Fly AND have the necessary strength/grapple to do something like that in any sort of controlled way.

But that's just the thing- if you gave me an AOE bomb which also either cripples or kills the target any time we're outside, *absolutely* I would take advantage of that. Aarakocera grapplers are easy to make and come in a variety of flavors. Think of it this way- Disintegrate deals 10d6+40 damage (average 75). It's a 6th level spell. Volley, which is as powerful as it comes for at will AOE abilities, does one weapon attack (typically around 1d10+15 damage, average 21 damage) to all targets in a 10' radius, which affects 12 squares. If you let them drop targets which are huge from an adequate height, and deal instant death to it, and anywhere from 20d6 to 60d6 to the targets below (average 70 to 210), you're giving them a disintegrate spell to a meteor swarm, at will, plus a death effect against the main target. Most creatures in the monster manual are ludicrously easy to grapple as well, such that an enlarged Aarakocera with expertise doesn't even really need the Rogue's reliable talent to win left and right in his checks. It will absolutely trivialize all encounters where large monsters appear outdoors. Just dropping the creature for 20d6 to it is *already* very powerful, it doesn't need to be buffed more.

[Slipperychicken]

I've never liked the rules that they've had in place. 1d10 per 10 feet for the first 40 feet maybe, but then you're getting into "I don't care how tough you are that's going to kill you" territory.


If it makes you feel any better, a normal person (i.e. ommoner with 4hp) has decent chances of being autokilled from things like 20ft falls or being kicked by a horse.

Also, D&D characters pass out of the "realistic human" range around 5th level. Have you ever heard of someone who could take on ten similarly-equipped adults at once in melee? By level 10, they're well their way to being superheroes.

[KorvinStarmast]

Just dropping the creature for 20d6 to it is *already* very powerful, it doesn't need to be buffed more. Completely agree. We had the good fortune to see my Thunderwave spell go off and all four hobgoblins miss their save, near a cliff. Off they went. The DM didn't bother to roll damage, since the cliff was over 100' high. Sadly, the ogre didn't miss his save. I think he'd have made a bigger splat when he hit. The whack I got from him on the next turn sure wasn't a love tap. :smallsigh:

[Millface]

But that's just the thing- if you gave me an AOE bomb which also either cripples or kills the target any time we're outside, *absolutely* I would take advantage of that. Aarakocera grapplers are easy to make and come in a variety of flavors. Think of it this way- Disintegrate deals 10d6+40 damage (average 75). It's a 6th level spell. Volley, which is as powerful as it comes for at will AOE abilities, does one weapon attack (typically around 1d10+15 damage, average 21 damage) to all targets in a 10' radius, which affects 12 squares. If you let them drop targets which are huge from an adequate height, and deal instant death to it, and anywhere from 20d6 to 60d6 to the targets below (average 70 to 210), you're giving them a disintegrate spell to a meteor swarm, at will, plus a death effect against the main target. Most creatures in the monster manual are ludicrously easy to grapple as well, such that an enlarged Aarakocera with expertise doesn't even really need the Rogue's reliable talent to win left and right in his checks. It will absolutely trivialize all encounters where large monsters appear outdoors. Just dropping the creature for 20d6 to it is *already* very powerful, it doesn't need to be buffed more.

With a 20 Strength, by RAW, you're lifting a maximum of 600 pounds. For giggles, lets say that I allow you to fly with that because you have the buffest wings of all time, your movement speed is reduced to 5. So you move into the large creature's square, successfully grapple (or you're not holding on to lift) and lift it. Everything in that area gets an opportunity attack from you flying in, everything gets one as you fly out, you have to succeed in the grapple EVERY round you're lifting, or the grapple goes the other way and the large creature starts pummeling you. Best case scenario if you try to pull that, even by RAW, is you both plummet. By the time you've lifted a creature it's not about to let go of you.

That's the most difficult, most convoluted way to deal damage I've ever seen, certainly. You need the grappler feat, 20 strength, ungodly luck, and 2 rounds/10 feet to get up that high. It's an interesting thought but... my rules will be just fine, nobody is going to cheese it like that, because 99% of the time they'll fail.


Edit: does 5e have weight tables for monsters like 3e did? Because large things weigh, well, alot. Huge is out of the question.

[GiantOctopodes]

With a 20 Strength, by RAW, you're lifting a maximum of 600 pounds. For giggles, lets say that I allow you to fly with that because you have the buffest wings of all time, your movement speed is reduced to 5. So you move into the large creature's square, successfully grapple (or you're not holding on to lift) and lift it. Everything in that area gets an opportunity attack from you flying in, everything gets one as you fly out, you have to succeed in the grapple EVERY round you're lifting, or the grapple goes the other way and the large creature starts pummeling you. Best case scenario if you try to pull that, even by RAW, is you both plummet. By the time you've lifted a creature it's not about to let go of you.

That's the most difficult, most convoluted way to deal damage I've ever seen, certainly. You need the grappler feat, 20 strength, ungodly luck, and 2 rounds/10 feet to get up that high. It's an interesting thought but... my rules will be just fine, nobody is going to cheese it like that, because 99% of the time they'll fail.


Edit: does 5e have weight tables for monsters like 3e did? Because large things weigh, well, alot. Huge is out of the question.

Keep in mind that being enlarged, your carrying capacity is already doubled so it's 1200 pounds, not 600. Have it a Goliath with winged sandals and it's doubled again, have the Barbarian 6 feature and it's doubled again, so the max is 4800 pounds, not 600. The grappler feat does not do anything for you, and with advantage on Athletics checks and expertise in place, at level 10 you're getting a total of +13 to your roll. To give you an idea, that means you beat a Terrasque 81% of the time. Against a meager Mammoth, you win 95% of the time. A grappler build that uses Rogue for practiced expertise can get to where it is literally incapable of losing the opposed roll. It's not as hard as you think.

[Gurka]

With a 20 Strength, by RAW, you're lifting a maximum of 600 pounds.

Well, the that I noticed is that you could be a bear totem, Goliath barbarian, and if I'm not mistaken at STR 20 that means a carry capacity of 1200 lbs. At level 20, when STR goes to 24, that means 1440 lbs.

If, as suggested from 3.x, a 1200 lb object chucked at somebody would hit for 24D6. 1440 would be 28D6.

Just wanders around with a 55 gallon drum full of concrete as a weapon.

[Slipperychicken]

Just wanders around with a 55 gallon drum full of concrete as a weapon.

How are you getting concrete in D&D-land, again?

[Gurka]

How are you getting concrete in D&D-land, again?

Uhh, because concrete in one form or another is around 8000 years old. It's not a new idea, or a new material. Just because you didn't go down to the hardware store to buy a bag of the stuff, doesn't mean it wasn't a thing.

Edit: Also, before you ask, a drum in this context is like a barrel, which they also had in ye olde D&D.

Edit 2: I just checked in and re-read this, and it comes off really sarcastic. Apologies for being a jerk.

[Millface]

Keep in mind that being enlarged, your carrying capacity is already doubled so it's 1200 pounds, not 600. Have it a Goliath with winged sandals and it's doubled again, have the Barbarian 6 feature and it's doubled again, so the max is 4800 pounds, not 600. The grappler feat does not do anything for you, and with advantage on Athletics checks and expertise in place, at level 10 you're getting a total of +13 to your roll. To give you an idea, that means you beat a Terrasque 81% of the time. Against a meager Mammoth, you win 95% of the time. A grappler build that uses Rogue for practiced expertise can get to where it is literally incapable of losing the opposed roll. It's not as hard as you think.

I suppose not when you're theorycrafting (which I love, don't get me wrong)

When I have a player create a Goliath with his long term goal being "Find flying sandals or a pocket wizard to cast fly on me" I'll look into changing it. You still can't grapple a Terrasque (you can't get your size high enough) but you're comparing strength and I see your point.

Can it be exploited? Yes. Do I realistically feel like my players will realize this and reroll a character JUST for that purpose? No. Not at all. And if they did I'm pretty sure that I could figure out how to handle it if someone did. I don't mean saying no or ruining their fun, I mean adjusting encounter balance to account for this new tactic.

If you wanted to put all your eggs into that basket to exploit a homebrew rule more power to you. You'll have fun, the other players will laugh, I'll have fun. Why not? If you drop something from 1,000 feet its going to die, I'll deal with whatever I have to in-game to keep that fact a reality, and I'll make sure everyone is still having fun in the process.

I won't be butthurt because you drop my cloud giant boss on his bugbear minions and kill the encounter in two rounds. Not having discussed this at length with my players I would be impressed and offer up inspiration for it. Next time I have a boss-level encounter will there be priests in the mix to dispel those sandals? You betcha. There probably were the first time but I'm not going to rain on your parade every time. The point is that it's manageable on my end. Sometimes it'll work for you, sometimes you'll fail a save or two and it'll backfire. Overall it sounds more fun than broken.


Edit: Grappler allows you to grapple things one size category larger than you. Even an enlarged Goliath can only grapple and carry Large and smaller creatures without this feat. Huge opens up only with Grappler.

[rhouck]

If it makes you feel any better, a normal person (i.e. ommoner with 4hp) has decent chances of being autokilled from things like 20ft falls or being kicked by a horse.

Also, D&D characters pass out of the "realistic human" range around 5th level. Have you ever heard of someone who could take on ten similarly-equipped adults at once in melee? By level 10, they're well their way to being superheroes.

Though this is supposed to represent the increased skill of the PC (ie there ability to dodge it part more sword thrusts). Outside of specialized abilities like the monk's slow fall, there is a lot less reason to suspect that a 5th level character is suddenly very good at falling from great heights.

Personally I would like to see something like 1d6/10 feet or 5% of HP max -- whichever is GREATER. thus a fall from 200 feet is inevitably fatal. The numbers could be tweaked to fit the desired result, but a flat % floor prevents high level/HP shenanigans. And I believe is fair in that the best swordsman in the world is still SOL when he falls off a dragon 1000 feet up...

[Millface]

Though this is supposed to represent the increased skill of the PC (ie there ability to dodge it part more sword thrusts). Outside of specialized abilities like the monk's slow fall, there is a lot less reason to suspect that a 5th level character is suddenly very good at falling from great heights.

Personally I would like to see something like 1d6/10 feet or 5% of HP max -- whichever is GREATER. thus a fall from 200 feet is inevitably fatal. The numbers could be tweaked to fit the desired result, but a flat % floor prevents high level/HP shenanigans. And I believe is fair in that the best swordsman in the world is still SOL when he falls off a dragon 1000 feet up...

Or, and this actually happened to one of my players... the dragon falls on HIM. First character death in my campaign, Dragon Flies away to escape and the warlock snipes it with an eldritch blast that does him in, Monk failed his dex save and splat.

He wasn't mad that I didn't use the regular rules (He might have survived). He just nodded and said "Hey, if I have to go that's a helluva way to do it!" We raised our beers to Glim the splattered Monk, and he still tells that story years later.

[GiantOctopodes]

I suppose not when you're theorycrafting (which I love, don't get me wrong)

When I have a player create a Goliath with his long term goal being "Find flying sandals or a pocket wizard to cast fly on me" I'll look into changing it. You still can't grapple a Terrasque (you can't get your size high enough) but you're comparing strength and I see your point.

Can it be exploited? Yes. Do I realistically feel like my players will realize this and reroll a character JUST for that purpose? No. Not at all. And if they did I'm pretty sure that I could figure out how to handle it if someone did. I don't mean saying no or ruining their fun, I mean adjusting encounter balance to account for this new tactic.

If you wanted to put all your eggs into that basket to exploit a homebrew rule more power to you. You'll have fun, the other players will laugh, I'll have fun. Why not? If you drop something from 1,000 feet its going to die, I'll deal with whatever I have to in-game to keep that fact a reality, and I'll make sure everyone is still having fun in the process.

I won't be butthurt because you drop my cloud giant boss on his bugbear minions and kill the encounter in two rounds. Not having discussed this at length with my players I would be impressed and offer up inspiration for it. Next time I have a boss-level encounter will there be priests in the mix to dispel those sandals? You betcha. There probably were the first time but I'm not going to rain on your parade every time. The point is that it's manageable on my end. Sometimes it'll work for you, sometimes you'll fail a save or two and it'll backfire. Overall it sounds more fun than broken.


Edit: Grappler allows you to grapple things one size category larger than you. Even an enlarged Goliath can only grapple and carry Large and smaller creatures without this feat. Huge opens up only with Grappler.

All fair points :smallsmile:

In terms of Grappler, though, it references a rule that doesn't exist, the Grappling technique normally allows 1 size larger than you anyway (see 195) and they never auto escape. Note the errata on Grappler says to "ignore the 3rd benefit, it refers to a non-existent rule". I wish the Grappler feat was more useful to grapplers, but sadly as is the only thing it does is provide 2 different forms of advantage on attack rolls against the target, which is useless for the goal of dragging them around places with you, shoving them off cliffs, or whatever else you want to do with them.

[Millface]

All fair points :smallsmile:

In terms of Grappler, though, it references a rule that doesn't exist, the Grappling technique normally allows 1 size larger than you anyway (see 195) and they never auto escape. Note the errata on Grappler says to "ignore the 3rd benefit, it refers to a non-existent rule". I wish the Grappler feat was more useful to grapplers, but sadly as is the only thing it does is provide 2 different forms of advantage on attack rolls against the target, which is useless for the goal of dragging them around places with you, shoving them off cliffs, or whatever else you want to do with them.

Huh, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out!

Still, I'm breathing easier knowing that it's still functionally impossible to grapple anything gargantuan.

On a side note that grappler build you mentioned for breaking my homebrew would be insane in any setting. I might steal that :P

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, D&D characters pass out of the "realistic human" range around 5th level. Have you ever heard of someone who could take on ten similarly-equipped adults at once in melee? Chuck Norris. :smallbiggrin:

By level 10, they're well their way to being superheroes. Superheroes wish they were as awesome as Chuck Norris.

By the way, Chuck Norris doesn't need levels.

[Millface]

If it makes you feel any better, a normal person (i.e. ommoner with 4hp) has decent chances of being autokilled from things like 20ft falls or being kicked by a horse.

Also, D&D characters pass out of the "realistic human" range around 5th level. Have you ever heard of someone who could take on ten similarly-equipped adults at once in melee? By level 10, they're well their way to being superheroes.

I admit that it is supernatural the way that Drizzt is described cutting down Orcs by the dozen, but if he fell off the back of a dragon he'd be just as dead as anyone else.

There's a difference between being a better fighter than realistically possible and being Superman. Hell, in the Avengers movie it is implied that if Thor didn't escape that glass prison that was falling he'd probably die, "god" or not. That might be a poor example though, as he takes punches from the Hulk, who probably hits harder than terminal velocity. Still, even at the expense of realism in its own universe Marvel adheres to the golden rule that falling from a plane will freaking kill you.