Cleric Help

[metalith]

I am joining a new Pathfinder game. I have played with the DM before, so I trust him, however, I have never played with the other players that are going to be in the game. So I have no idea of their play-style. I am building a Cleric for the game and from the looks of it, I will be the only divine caster in the game.

We are using a modified version of custom setting linked below. Here is the list of the deities in the setting.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pantheon_(Cora_Supplement)

There is no alignment restriction for clerics worshipping a deity and any class that choose Domains, can choose any domain they wish.

My character concept is to be a balance between light and dark. Not so much good versus evil but willing to use whatever power is convenient for the situation. 25 Point buy and leaning toward Aasimar, possibly a variant, since humans are very few in this setting.

I have been reviewing guides to find the right balance, I like the idea of a Reach Cleric or Bad Touch Cleric, but from what I read it seems like they are not the best supporters. If I'm wrong, let me know. I have never played a Cleric in Pathfinder before.

[Geddy2112]

Without alignment or domain restrictions, it is very easy to be a very powerful cleric. Travel is probably my favorite domain(with trade as a subdomain) but luck, madness, darkness, and liberation are all great too.

Aasimar is good for most cleric builds, although if you are not doing much in the social skills or channeling you can dump charisma. If you want to go a non cha based route, take a variant. It depends on what you want to channel-if you are going to channel positive energy select a variant channel to do something besides heal. Negative energy is generally more useful, and you can still prepare cure spells, use cure wands and scrolls.

If you are using any spells or abilities to damage like a bad touch, max out wis. Dex and con are always important, strength is either dump or high(touching can use weapon finesse) and a bonus to intelligence helps with your 2 skill points.

[metalith]

I am liking the combination of Travel(Trade) and Darkness as Domains. Which I think makes me lean toward Bad Touch. I may have to look into face duties at least Diplomacy, since while we have a Summoner and a Sorcerer in the party, the descriptions so far, are not leaning toward a lot of social from them. I like the Darkness domain but not sure how to work that into a Reach Cleric build.

I'm not sure if I want to give up channeling for healing since I have played a healer in D&D games before and the parties battle motto seemed to move as far away from the healer as possible and put yourself into situations that demanded healing. It got so bad, I would end up rolling a new healer every 2-3 games because he would die keeping them alive. Until I came up with an Eldritch Discipline, who could heal at range and in-character demanded, if you don't listen to him in combat, he won't heal you and would attack with his Eldritch Glaive instead of healing.

[Geddy2112]

By reach build, do you mean fighting with a reach weapon? Or a ranged weapon? You can use darkness and obscuring mist and range to hide in the mist and have total concealment, but use eyes of darkness and blind fight to help hit things. Use dimensional hop to help with ranged combats.

Touch of darkness is okay, it is brutal against single big bads and rogues/precision strikers. It is the equal of casting blur on the entire party against a single enemy, but not the go to power. It certainly goes well with a bad touch build though.

Diplomacy is not a summoner or sorcerer class skill, and your trade domain power helps with sense motive too, which you will be great at because it is a class skill and you're wis based.

Remember that you are the cleric, not the healer. You are not there to just wait for players to take damage then heal. If you want to heal, you have the option to do so through channeling positive energy and casting cure spells. If you channel positive energy, you can lose prepared spells to cast cure spells, so you don't even need to prepare any. If you channel negative, you can always drop a spell to inflict for bad touches, but you can still prepare cure spells and use cure wands and scrolls. Variant channeling still makes the channel heal(for half of normal), but it gives out bonuses so it is more useful in combat(or sometimes out depending on what variant you take). Even if your charisma is crap, you still get 3 channels a day so you will always have some. If you do decide to go positive, you probably want selective channeling, and you probably need it if you channel negative. Also,channeling has a 30ft range so you don't need to be right next to your allies to heal them, unlike a cure spell.

[metalith]

Fighting with a reach weapon. The information I saw, would be using a Longspear, casting during your turn, summoning with feats and then doing attacks with attacks of Opportunity.

I saw information about a Cleric using a bow and arrow, but not sure how well that would work out with casting. Since I did not see anything like Zen Archery for Clerics in Pathfinder.

I am looking at these numbers so far including the Aasimar +2 Wis/Cha. I contemplated Wis 20 but it would leave me to low in the other areas and I'm not a fan of stats <10.

STR: 12 DEX: 14 CON: 13 INT: 10 WIS: 18 CHA: 16

After I trained my last D&D group, that I wasn't a healbot designed to spend every turn in combat healing one or more of them of their stupidity, I was able to spend turns in combat buffing, debuffing, summoning or attacking. I liked setting things up so that they won't take damage or had temp HP which could soak the damage without affecting them and healing them post combat. I viewed in-combat healing as a only when absolutely necessary action.

[Geddy2112]

Ahh, you just want the spear as a backup for AoO's and for when you run out of buff spells etc. Your stat array is good, I would consider putting the 12 in intelligence over strength, but I like skill points, so it is up to you. Are you going to channel positive or negative? I think negative works best with the reach build. Take combat reflexes as your 1st level feat, then weapon finesse to help with touch attacks(if you still want bad touches), then sacred summons and selective channel.

[metalith]

Well with a reach build information, I do no bad touching, I summon and use spells for effects (buffs, debuffs, attacks) and then stand in position so that when they get close to attack I AoO them for extra damage. The summons will do more damage and tank and allow me to cast spells and then do regular attacks. Bad touch seems to focus more on offensive spells and a lack of utilizing AoO for additional damage. If there is some way to merge the two together, together I could go for that.

I was thinking about it, switching it since I like more skill points. I'm leaning toward positive energy myself, so I can focus all my spells on buffs, debuffs and summons and use channel for necessary healing or if necessary spontaneous cure. I am still working on this aspect, since I want to keep the concept of a cleric who is balanced between light and dark, kind of like a grey cleric. And kind of see his bad touch style being very dark.

[Geddy2112]

You could always take eldritch heritage to get a familiar through the arcane bloodline, and at level 3 have the familiar deliver touch spells from range(a bird or something) then fly back, keeping your AoO's and reach. Between that, summoning and buffing you won't be able to do it all(or need to) every combat. Healing only those who fight for the cause is still a bit grey, particularly if you selectively channel in combat and only heal the goodies. While destroying undeath is good, summoning monsters to fight is usually not so much. I think you would be fine with a moral grey if you only healed in a pinch, sticking mostly to using magic to power combat. So with the reach build, you want combat reflexes, sacred summons, selective channel, then whatever you want.

[metalith]

Here is my tentative level 1 build for my Cleric

Tulay Nuetral Cleric of Giraldo

Domain: Darkness, Travel (Trade)

Aasimar (Immortal Spark)

Middle Aged

Channel - Negative Energy

Str 12 (12-1)
Dex 14 (14-1)
Con 14 (14-1)
Int 14 (13+1)
Wis 18 (15+2+1)
Cha 16 (15+2+1)

Trait

Combat - Armor Expert or Reactionary
Faith - Birthmark
Magic - Focused Mind
Drawback - Power-Hungry

Skills
Diplomacy
Knowledge (religion)
Perception
Sense Motive
Spellcraft

Feat: Selective Channeling

He uses a Longspear (deity's favored weapon) for melee attacks.

[Geddy2112]

Looks good. I think you can just deal with the armor check penalty, so take reactionary. Eventually you can get into mithral and it will be a -1 or -2 tops depending on what you choose.

For higher levels, consider the guided hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/-guided-hand) feat to keep pace with the higher AC's and not rely on strength. It requires channel smite, which is also probably something you might want, depending on how much fighting you want to do.

[metalith]

I was thinking about it.

Was working on how the character would look at twenty, without any gold spent on enhancements. Here is what I'm thinking.

Str 12 (12-1)
Dex 14 (14-1)
Con 14 (14-1)
Int 14 (13+1)
Wis 23 (15+5+2+1)
Cha 16 (15+2+1)

Feats:
1. Selective Channel
3. Versatile Channel
5. Channel Smite
7. Guided Hand
9. Combat Reflexes
11. Extend Spell
13. Reach Spell
15. Bouncing Spell
17. Quicken Spell
19. Extra Channel

The character generator I'm using says I have an open feat but I don't know where or how.

At lower levels work on increasing his physical combat ability and then worry about his mystical ability and with Versatile Channel be able to channel heal as necessary.

[Geddy2112]

The gen probably thinks you are human. Reach spell is only really important if you want to make touch attacks at range, consider taking something else. Extend spell is okay, but I am personally not a fan. Anything that is rounds/level will effectively last through the combat, particularly at higher levels. Probably better to just prepare a second casting of a spell for things like minute,10 minute and hour/level than use a higher slot. Really boils down to taste though.

Extra channels is meh, particularly at higher levels when you could just buy a CHA increasing item. Take improved channel somewhere, doubly so since you might be using positive to attack undead. It will also help in your channel smites. Also consider improved channel smite so you won't miss and lose your channel during a full round attack.

[metalith]

I found a Greater Channel Smite but nothing that seems to do what you suggest. I would love not to loose the channel on a miss.

1. Selective Channel
3. Versatile Channel
5. Channel Smite
7. Guided Hand
9. Combat Reflexes
11. Reach Spell
13. Improved Channel
15. Quicken Spell
17. Bouncing Spell
19. Open

[Geddy2112]

"If you miss, the extra damage dice remain in your pool, but any dice left unexpended at the end of your turn are wasted." -Greater channel smite. It helps if you are attacking different targets with your multiple attack so you can allocate channeled energy as needed. Against a big single target, throw all of your dice into the first attack, and if it misses you can keep allocating channel dice that did not hit to subsequent attacks, so even if you only hit once you get all of the channel dice.

Would be a good choice for your L19 feat when you have a lot of channel dice to use.

[metalith]

Is there a feat that adds more dice to channel energy or upgrades the dice from d6 to maybe d8s?

Btw thank you for the assistance you have given.

[grarrrg]

Is there a feat that adds more dice to channel energy or upgrades the dice from d6 to maybe d8s?

Not that I've ever found.
There are a few classes that Stack with Cleric (the default ruling is that you wind up with 2 separate pools, but a few things specifically stack).
But nothing that lets you go beyond the normal 1d6 every 2 levels.

The closest would be Life Mystery Oracle, with a race that has a Favored Class Bonus of +1/2 level towards Oracle Revelation.

[Psyren]

Channel Surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/channel-surge) lets you spend an additional use to empower it (+50%.)
Channel Ray (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/channel-ray) focuses it to hit just one target and increases the DC by two.
Improved Channel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-channel---final) increases the DC by 2, and Ability Focus can increase that by an additional 1.

[metalith]

Thanks for the info grarrrg.

Channel Ray sounds yummy for a bad touch Cleric.

I don't think Channel Surge would work for Channel Smite but as an AoE would be nasty.

Thanks Psyren.

[atemu1234]

bad touch Cleric

...
...
...
I'm just going to let that one hang out there...

[grarrrg]

Channel Surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/channel-surge) lets you spend an additional use to empower it (+50%.)

I can be forgiven for not knowing about this feat, seeing as how it came out quite recently.
Although it's kind of weak. Making it take 2 uses AND a Full-Round action to get +50%?

[Psyren]

I can be forgiven for not knowing about this feat, seeing as how it came out quite recently.
Although it's kind of weak. Making it take 2 uses AND a Full-Round action to get +50%?

Oh I wasn't answering you directly, I know it was recent.

I guess you can compare it to Quick Channel, which lets you "double" your damage as a full-round action (two move actions for two channels) but also lets the target save twice, and uses 4 uses instead of 2.

[grarrrg]

I guess you can compare it to Quick Channel, which lets you "double" your damage as a full-round action (two move actions for two channels) but also lets the target save twice, and uses 4 uses instead of 2.

:smallconfused:
Or you could, just, you know, Channel as a Standard action, then Quick Channel as a Move. Then you "double" your damage as a "full round" and only use 3 uses instead of 4...

The feat is comparatively good, in certain situations. But those are situations that you don't want to be in, and might not have been in had you taken a more "proactive" feat, instead of "reactive". I know it doesn't seem reactive, but think of the situations where it IS useful, and...yeah.

[Psyren]

:smallconfused:
Or you could, just, you know, Channel as a Standard action, then Quick Channel as a Move. Then you "double" your damage as a "full round" and only use 3 uses instead of 4...

Yeah, or that. It's late, cut me some slack :smallbiggrin:

But even then, 2 uses beats 3, so the feat still makes sense, sorta. You're basically trading a little extra damage for the fact that it's 2 uses instead of 3 and 1 save instead of 2.