Becoming a Lich

[Blackhawk748]

Im building a character for an Evil campaign. Hes a Human Spontaneous Cleric 4/Ordained Champ 5/ Spont Cleric 11 who reveres Kas the Bloody Handed, so his Weapon from War domain is Bastard Sword.

Domains: Deathbound, War, and Fire (Bonus from Ordained Champ)

Feats
1st: Death Devotion, Extra Rebuke
3rd: Practiced Spellcaster
6th: Craft Wondrous Item
9th: Holy Warrior
12th: ???
15th: ???
18th: ???

So now that that is out of the way, he will be caster level 11 at lvl 11 (thank you Practiced Spellcaster) so thats the earliest he can make his Phylactery, the question is do i just become a Lich after making my Phylactery, or do i have to do other stuff?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Mechanically, you just become a Lich after creating the phylactery. It would be reasonable, I think, for a DM to add additional stuff, provided it doesn't add any additional costs.

[Nibbens]

Mechanically, you just become a Lich after creating the phylactery. It would be reasonable, I think, for a DM to add additional stuff, provided it doesn't add any additional costs.

I don't think any of the actual source books contain detailed descriptions that explain the necessary rituals and hoops and hurdles that an individual must go through for lichdom. Unless the sourcebooks you are using have those detailed (and I've never seen them) From what fluff I can remember seeing:

0) First and foremost, the path to lichdom requirements differ from person to person, based off their own life/personality.
1) Sacrifice of a virgin (usually done with poison) (sometimes the heart is requited for the potion in #2). (This is the standard bad guy gimmick. lol.)
2) drinking some poison/blood concoction to kill your body - if this process fails, then you become one of the many different types of a failed liches.
3) the phylactery (which 'catches/becomes' your soul after you die) - this you seem to have down pat - although what it's constructed out of differs from person to person.
4) Scorpion venom, vampire’s breath, the tongues of deathwing moths, belladonna, and various other necromantic fluff seem to make its way into some of the sources I've read. Things like that.

[Blackhawk748]

I don't think any of the actual source books contain detailed descriptions that explain the necessary rituals and hoops and hurdles that an individual must go through for lichdom. Unless the sourcebooks you are using have those detailed (and I've never seen them) From what fluff I can remember seeing:

0) First and foremost, the path to lichdom requirements differ from person to person, based off their own life/personality.
1) Sacrifice of a virgin (usually done with poison) (sometimes the heart is requited for the potion in #2). (This is the standard bad guy gimmick. lol.)
2) drinking some poison/blood concoction to kill your body - if this process fails, then you become one of the many different types of a failed liches.
3) the phylactery (which 'catches/becomes' your soul after you die) - this you seem to have down pat - although what it's constructed out of differs from person to person.
4) Scorpion venom, vampire’s breath, the tongues of deathwing moths, belladonna, and various other necromantic fluff seem to make its way into some of the sources I've read. Things like that.

I guess these are as valid as anything else, DnD is distressingly vague on this subject.

[Nibbens]

I guess these are as valid as anything else, DnD is distressingly vague on this subject.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's vague on purpose. You're not supposed to know - it's supposed to be this big secret held by other liches and DMs for your game/character respectively. Say what you want about metagaming and how "I can avoid doing it," but if the player knows, then the PC can only pretend to not know. All the mystery is gone and the fluff becomes meaningless once it's codified in a book.

[DarkOne-Rob]

If you venerate Kas, why not become a vampire instead? Those that revere Vecna's traitorous lieutenant seem unlikely to follow in the steps of the Whispering Lord...

That said, don't forget the impact of the increase LA on your leveling - a strict DM will slow your XP gains to match this increased power.

As for fluff, one of the reasons I understand it has never been strictly detailed is that the process is intended to be heinous and vile beyond the desire of the writers to detail. That sounds pretty weak to me, so I suggest multiple living, unwilling sacrifices and similar evil rituals be involved. Be creative, evil, and un-redeemable, that way the DM will support such an evil direction.

[Blackhawk748]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's vague on purpose. You're not supposed to know - it's supposed to be this big secret held by other liches and DMs for your game/character respectively. Say what you want about metagaming and how "I can avoid doing it," but if the player knows, then the PC can only pretend to not know. All the mystery is gone and the fluff becomes meaningless once it's codified in a book.

I realize this, and it does make sense, but the only line on this is that it is "Horribly Evil", no examples no recommendations, nothing. Which from a DMing perspective makes it hard to not fall back on cliche, for example the Lich needing a baby soul or something else mustache twirlingly evil.

[thematgreen]

When I had a character become a lich in a campaign I had my character create his own ritual:

Items Needed:
The soul of the one that loves you most
The heart of the one that hates you above all others
The blood of a powerful undead, such as a vampire
Night Shade, Belladonna, and other rare poisons.

Render down everything but the heart. Cook the heart with delicious poison/blood/soul stuffing and enjoy with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

The soul is to send on in place of your own when your body dies, it is willing because it loves you. The heart is a container for the essense that will kill you, the heart holds hate and the previous owner will have wanted you dead. The poison is to kill you, and the undead blood is to "preserve" your body.

The adventure to gather all that stuff and such was pretty fun.

The Phylactery was a lovely gold and diamond ring given as a birthday gift to the princess of the country they lived in. Lots of magic to hide it's function and to give a bunch of beneficial benefits.

[Nibbens]

When I had a character become a lich in a campaign I had my character create his own ritual:

Items Needed:
The soul of the one that loves you most
The heart of the one that hates you above all others
The blood of a powerful undead, such as a vampire
Night Shade, Belladonna, and other rare poisons.

Render down everything but the heart. Cook the heart with delicious poison/blood/soul stuffing and enjoy with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

The soul is to send on in place of your own when your body dies, it is willing because it loves you. The heart is a container for the essense that will kill you, the heart holds hate and the previous owner will have wanted you dead. The poison is to kill you, and the undead blood is to "preserve" your body.

The adventure to gather all that stuff and such was pretty fun.

The Phylactery was a lovely gold and diamond ring given as a birthday gift to the princess of the country they lived in. Lots of magic to hide it's function and to give a bunch of beneficial benefits.

Grats to your DM good sir! Even though it takes a "soul of a good person (most likely)" the reason behind it doesn't feel all cliche. Which is good.


I realize this, and it does make sense, but the only line on this is that it is "Horribly Evil", no examples no recommendations, nothing. Which from a DMing perspective makes it hard to not fall back on cliche, for example the Lich needing a baby soul or something else mustache twirlingly evil.

Ah, kk. Well, I was under the impression you were the character, not the DM. Unless you're researching for the DM - which that's entirely probable, but would take the fun out of some of the mystery of lichdom for you.

I once made a spell for my players that followed the "Horribly Evil" line, but was not standard. Lemme see if I can find it.
FORCED RESURRECTION
School Necromancy; Level Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch/Etc 9 Requirements Heal 10 skill ranks.
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Components V, S, M, DF (diamond worth 75,000 gp, 4 dead bodies of the same type of creature you’re attempting to resurrect.
This spell functions like raise dead, except that the spell has no limit on the amount of time the creature spent dead. This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed. The dead bodies of the same type of the creature trying to be brought back must be within 10 feet within the time of casting for the soul to inhabit. (An elf soul can be Force-Resurrected into any humanoid body, but not into a Dragon’s body.) The organism must contain all the organs needed for life to be sustained. Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no negative levels (or Constitution points) and all of the prepared spells possessed by the creature when it died.

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can't resurrect constructs or non-intelligent undead creatures.

This spell can resurrect a person who died of old age into a new (and hopefully younger) body.

The 4 bodies used in the casting of this spell can be only 10 days old per caster’s spell level – bodies older than that are not viable and cause the spell to fail if used. Gentle Repose spells function normally on the bodies which are used as components of this spell.

The 4 additional bodies required for the casting of the spell are used up during casting, replacing organs and parts to make sure the soul has a functional body to return to. The soul is allowed a saving throw if the body is not entirely its own. However, if the original body is used and has all of its limbs and organs that it naturally had in life, it gets no saving throw to resist the resurrection.

If the creature fails his save by 10 or more, the body reanimates, instead housing an entity of pure negative energy. The soul is instead used as fuel to keep the entity in the plane which it was brought to. Such a victim-body rises up and lashes out at whatever is around it – possibly threatening the caster in the process. The DM uses his discretion on the type of monster actually created.

Casting this spell is always an evil act – defying the laws of nature in such a manner often attracts the attention of good and evil deities alike.

This was the crux of an adventure they went on for quite some time dealing with the fall out of an NPC who used it on his wife.

I guess, in a sense of things fuddling with souls for personal gain may fall into the "Horribly Evil" category.

[atemu1234]

Grats to your DM good sir! Even though it takes a "soul of a good person (most likely)" the reason behind it doesn't feel all cliche. Which is good.



Ah, kk. Well, I was under the impression you were the character, not the DM. Unless you're researching for the DM - which that's entirely probable, but would take the fun out of some of the mystery of lichdom for you.

I once made a spell for my players that followed the "Horribly Evil" line, but was not standard. Lemme see if I can find it.
FORCED RESURRECTION
School Necromancy; Level Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch/Etc 9 Requirements Heal 10 skill ranks.
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Components V, S, M, DF (diamond worth 75,000 gp, 4 dead bodies of the same type of creature you’re attempting to resurrect.
This spell functions like raise dead, except that the spell has no limit on the amount of time the creature spent dead. This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed. The dead bodies of the same type of the creature trying to be brought back must be within 10 feet within the time of casting for the soul to inhabit. (An elf soul can be Force-Resurrected into any humanoid body, but not into a Dragon’s body.) The organism must contain all the organs needed for life to be sustained. Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no negative levels (or Constitution points) and all of the prepared spells possessed by the creature when it died.

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can't resurrect constructs or non-intelligent undead creatures.

This spell can resurrect a person who died of old age into a new (and hopefully younger) body.

The 4 bodies used in the casting of this spell can be only 10 days old per caster’s spell level – bodies older than that are not viable and cause the spell to fail if used. Gentle Repose spells function normally on the bodies which are used as components of this spell.

The 4 additional bodies required for the casting of the spell are used up during casting, replacing organs and parts to make sure the soul has a functional body to return to. The soul is allowed a saving throw if the body is not entirely its own. However, if the original body is used and has all of its limbs and organs that it naturally had in life, it gets no saving throw to resist the resurrection.

If the creature fails his save by 10 or more, the body reanimates, instead housing an entity of pure negative energy. The soul is instead used as fuel to keep the entity in the plane which it was brought to. Such a victim-body rises up and lashes out at whatever is around it – possibly threatening the caster in the process. The DM uses his discretion on the type of monster actually created.

Casting this spell is always an evil act – defying the laws of nature in such a manner often attracts the attention of good and evil deities alike.

This was the crux of an adventure they went on for quite some time dealing with the fall out of an NPC who used it on his wife.

I guess, in a sense of things fuddling with souls for personal gain may fall into the "Horribly Evil" category.

I personally like to use The Complete Guide to Liches for this. That reminds me of the Philolich template.

[Nibbens]

I personally like to use The Complete Guide to Liches for this. That reminds me of the Philolich template.

Wow! I didn't even know this was such a thing! LOL. That's awesome. Is that 3.5 or what?

[atemu1234]

Wow! I didn't even know this was such a thing! LOL. That's awesome. Is that 3.5 or what?

3e. Third party. Decent book.

[Blackhawk748]

I personally like to use The Complete Guide to Liches for this. That reminds me of the Philolich template.

Totally looking into this, as this sounds awesome.

[atemu1234]

Totally looking into this, as this sounds awesome.

It's decent. The Drowlich template is hilarious with Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Only ever used it as DM, though, because the LA is kind of bonkers.

[Blackhawk748]

It's decent. The Drowlich template is hilarious with Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Only ever used it as DM, though, because the LA is kind of bonkers.

I saw Warlich and went "OMG i WANT!!!" and then realized that i couldnt be a Cleric and be a Warlich :smallfrown: i wanted +14 nat armor....

On another note, Lichlings and Lichwargs are freakin sweet and i will totally have some.

[atemu1234]

I saw Warlich and went "OMG i WANT!!!" and then realized that i couldnt be a Cleric and be a Warlich :smallfrown: i wanted +14 nat armor....

On another note, Lichlings and Lichwargs are freakin sweet and i will totally have some.

I had fun with a Drowlich. The CR adjustment is excessive but probably fair in most cases.

Siccing the Lichlings and Lichwargs on players was also fun.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Do keep in mind that a phylactery costs more than 100.000 gp, which may be hard to come by at level 11, with its expected wealth of 66.000 gp. At level 13, expected wealth is 110.000 gp. Of course, your DM can allow you to get loads of cash, but it's something to take care of.

[Blackhawk748]

I had fun with a Drowlich. The CR adjustment is excessive but probably fair in most cases.

Siccing the Lichlings and Lichwargs on players was also fun.

This (http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss337/richardcasellas/ZW4.jpg)was totally what i was envisioning for my Lichwargs

[atemu1234]

This (http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss337/richardcasellas/ZW4.jpg)was totally what i was envisioning for my Lichwargs

This is how I imagined Lichlings.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131014104657/yugioh/images/thumb/6/61/RyuKokki-LCJW-EN-C-1E.png/300px-RyuKokki-LCJW-EN-C-1E.png

[icefractal]

Something I came up with, based on wanting a reason that the Lich process is evil -

The first step required is to shred your soul into strands and weave them into a chain, with one end still connected to your life force. This is usually accomplished with an atypical use of Enervation, but other sources of energy drain, such as vampire/wight assistants or items that do such also work. The process doesn't make you evil, although it does remove your capacity for empathy.

Whether it also removes the capacity for creativity is a highly disputed topic. On the one hand, Liches are certain not less intelligent after the transformation - more so, in fact. And Liches have been known to create new spells. On the other hand, you have all these Wizards, many of them highly ambitious and creative when alive, and the majority end up moldering in tombs and ruined towers, "contemplating the mysteries of death", and notably not using their extended lifespans to revolutionize the study of magic. It remains an unsettled matter.

The second step is to build a phylactery and anchor the free end of the soul-chain there. It's a straightforward, if difficult, process, similar to making any other magic item. Note that not only does it need soul-binding magic, it also needs undead creation spells to form the new body. Some people use sacrifices to make the construction cheaper, but that's not a requirement.

The third step is to die. But if you just simply died, your now-dead life-force would drag the soul chain "down" (an abstraction, not a real direction, advanced necromancy is needed to understand the accurate description) until it snapped, making you into some kind of failed Lich. You need something to grab onto, to pull yourself back up to the world of the living.

The thing is other people. At least six of them, necessarily sapient, preferably the same species as yourself - in fact, the close to yourself you get, the easier it will be. Having some extras is a good idea, because you don't get a second chance at this. In the process of pulling yourself "up", you shove them "down", which means they're not only dead but very difficult to resurrect.

Now you get to the ironic part. If you use nice people, that's obviously not a good thing to do. But maybe you figure you'll use complete villains instead, evil bastards that you would have killed anyway. You certainly can - but - during the process, your soul will be entwined with theirs, causing much of their personality and traits to rub off onto you. This happens with anyone, its just that having evil bastard traits is more of a problem. The only way to minimize this and keep more of your original personality is to use people you have a positive relationship and trust with.

So at the end, the cold and wrathful Liches, the ones who'd casually disintegrate anyone in their way, are the ones who tried to do the right thing. The more relaxed, contemplative ones, who might even be friendly, have a very dark deed in their past.

[Blackhawk748]

Something I came up with, based on wanting a reason that the Lich process is evil -

The first step required is to shred your soul into strands and weave them into a chain, with one end still connected to your life force. This is usually accomplished with an atypical use of Enervation, but other sources of energy drain, such as vampire/wight assistants or items that do such also work. The process doesn't make you evil, although it does remove your capacity for empathy.

Whether it also removes the capacity for creativity is a highly disputed topic. On the one hand, Liches are certain not less intelligent after the transformation - more so, in fact. And Liches have been known to create new spells. On the other hand, you have all these Wizards, many of them highly ambitious and creative when alive, and the majority end up moldering in tombs and ruined towers, "contemplating the mysteries of death", and notably not using their extended lifespans to revolutionize the study of magic. It remains an unsettled matter.

The second step is to build a phylactery and anchor the free end of the soul-chain there. It's a straightforward, if difficult, process, similar to making any other magic item. Note that not only does it need soul-binding magic, it also needs undead creation spells to form the new body. Some people use sacrifices to make the construction cheaper, but that's not a requirement.

The third step is to die. But if you just simply died, your now-dead life-force would drag the soul chain "down" (an abstraction, not a real direction, advanced necromancy is needed to understand the accurate description) until it snapped, making you into some kind of failed Lich. You need something to grab onto, to pull yourself back up to the world of the living.

The thing is other people. At least six of them, necessarily sapient, preferably the same species as yourself - in fact, the close to yourself you get, the easier it will be. Having some extras is a good idea, because you don't get a second chance at this. In the process of pulling yourself "up", you shove them "down", which means they're not only dead but very difficult to resurrect.

Now you get to the ironic part. If you use nice people, that's obviously not a good thing to do. But maybe you figure you'll use complete villains instead, evil bastards that you would have killed anyway. You certainly can - but - during the process, your soul will be entwined with theirs, causing much of their personality and traits to rub off onto you. This happens with anyone, its just that having evil bastard traits is more of a problem. The only way to minimize this and keep more of your original personality is to use people you have a positive relationship and trust with.

So at the end, the cold and wrathful Liches, the ones who'd casually disintegrate anyone in their way, are the ones who tried to do the right thing. The more relaxed, contemplative ones, who might even be friendly, have a very dark deed in their past.

This is, this is, just, wow. This is freaking sweet.

[atemu1234]

Something I came up with, based on wanting a reason that the Lich process is evil -

The first step required is to shred your soul into strands and weave them into a chain, with one end still connected to your life force. This is usually accomplished with an atypical use of Enervation, but other sources of energy drain, such as vampire/wight assistants or items that do such also work. The process doesn't make you evil, although it does remove your capacity for empathy.

Whether it also removes the capacity for creativity is a highly disputed topic. On the one hand, Liches are certain not less intelligent after the transformation - more so, in fact. And Liches have been known to create new spells. On the other hand, you have all these Wizards, many of them highly ambitious and creative when alive, and the majority end up moldering in tombs and ruined towers, "contemplating the mysteries of death", and notably not using their extended lifespans to revolutionize the study of magic. It remains an unsettled matter.

The second step is to build a phylactery and anchor the free end of the soul-chain there. It's a straightforward, if difficult, process, similar to making any other magic item. Note that not only does it need soul-binding magic, it also needs undead creation spells to form the new body. Some people use sacrifices to make the construction cheaper, but that's not a requirement.

The third step is to die. But if you just simply died, your now-dead life-force would drag the soul chain "down" (an abstraction, not a real direction, advanced necromancy is needed to understand the accurate description) until it snapped, making you into some kind of failed Lich. You need something to grab onto, to pull yourself back up to the world of the living.

The thing is other people. At least six of them, necessarily sapient, preferably the same species as yourself - in fact, the close to yourself you get, the easier it will be. Having some extras is a good idea, because you don't get a second chance at this. In the process of pulling yourself "up", you shove them "down", which means they're not only dead but very difficult to resurrect.

Now you get to the ironic part. If you use nice people, that's obviously not a good thing to do. But maybe you figure you'll use complete villains instead, evil bastards that you would have killed anyway. You certainly can - but - during the process, your soul will be entwined with theirs, causing much of their personality and traits to rub off onto you. This happens with anyone, its just that having evil bastard traits is more of a problem. The only way to minimize this and keep more of your original personality is to use people you have a positive relationship and trust with.

So at the end, the cold and wrathful Liches, the ones who'd casually disintegrate anyone in their way, are the ones who tried to do the right thing. The more relaxed, contemplative ones, who might even be friendly, have a very dark deed in their past.

*DMing High-Five*

[AbyssStalker]

The beaver council approves what is above, that is dam good.

So do you create an arch-lich by sacrificing angels? Possibly desecrating them to the point that their deity can't even recover them?

[Nibbens]

Something I came up with, based on wanting a reason that the Lich process is evil -

The first step required is to shred your soul into strands and weave them into a chain, with one end still connected to your life force. This is usually accomplished with an atypical use of Enervation, but other sources of energy drain, such as vampire/wight assistants or items that do such also work. The process doesn't make you evil, although it does remove your capacity for empathy.

Whether it also removes the capacity for creativity is a highly disputed topic. On the one hand, Liches are certain not less intelligent after the transformation - more so, in fact. And Liches have been known to create new spells. On the other hand, you have all these Wizards, many of them highly ambitious and creative when alive, and the majority end up moldering in tombs and ruined towers, "contemplating the mysteries of death", and notably not using their extended lifespans to revolutionize the study of magic. It remains an unsettled matter.

The second step is to build a phylactery and anchor the free end of the soul-chain there. It's a straightforward, if difficult, process, similar to making any other magic item. Note that not only does it need soul-binding magic, it also needs undead creation spells to form the new body. Some people use sacrifices to make the construction cheaper, but that's not a requirement.

The third step is to die. But if you just simply died, your now-dead life-force would drag the soul chain "down" (an abstraction, not a real direction, advanced necromancy is needed to understand the accurate description) until it snapped, making you into some kind of failed Lich. You need something to grab onto, to pull yourself back up to the world of the living.

The thing is other people. At least six of them, necessarily sapient, preferably the same species as yourself - in fact, the close to yourself you get, the easier it will be. Having some extras is a good idea, because you don't get a second chance at this. In the process of pulling yourself "up", you shove them "down", which means they're not only dead but very difficult to resurrect.

Now you get to the ironic part. If you use nice people, that's obviously not a good thing to do. But maybe you figure you'll use complete villains instead, evil bastards that you would have killed anyway. You certainly can - but - during the process, your soul will be entwined with theirs, causing much of their personality and traits to rub off onto you. This happens with anyone, its just that having evil bastard traits is more of a problem. The only way to minimize this and keep more of your original personality is to use people you have a positive relationship and trust with.

So at the end, the cold and wrathful Liches, the ones who'd casually disintegrate anyone in their way, are the ones who tried to do the right thing. The more relaxed, contemplative ones, who might even be friendly, have a very dark deed in their past.

0.0 Whoa. This... Whoa.

[SinsI]

Wouldn't it be better to go for a Necropolitan instead? +4 LA is a very heavy burden for a spellcaster, and you are wasting a huge portion of your wealth on your Philactery.

[frogglesmash]

"Undead" is a third party book that describes the process of becoming a lich in significantly more detail than the MMI. (Pg. 117 if you're interested)

[atemu1234]

Wouldn't it be better to go for a Necropolitan instead? +4 LA is a very heavy burden for a spellcaster, and you are wasting a huge portion of your wealth on your Philactery.

Become one at 17th level, then. You'll gain XP as a 21st-level character, but apart from that...


"Undead" is a third party book that describes the process of becoming a lich in significantly more detail than the MMI. (Pg. 117 if you're interested)

Is there a publisher to go along with that, because I can't track it down anywhere for the life of me.

[frogglesmash]

Is there a publisher to go along with that, because I can't track it down anywhere for the life of me.

Alderac Entertainment Group, or AEG.

[Beriorn]

The easiest way to become a lich is 20 levels of Dread Necromancer. Once you hit level 20 you become a lich without having to pay experience or gold to make your phylactery

[nonsi]

I have created my own version of Lich transformation, which involves a 6th level spell and elaborate steps.
The spell: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18777502&postcount=26
The steps: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18777505&postcount=27