Subclasses and Multiclassing in AD&D 1e

[Johnmakuta]

I have been planning to make a half elf Multiclassing character I couldn't find anything in the rules about whether cleric is reversible with thief or if fighter is reversible with ranger

[Digitalelf]

I have been planning to make a half elf Multiclassing character I couldn't find anything in the rules about whether cleric is reversible with thief or if fighter is reversible with ranger

Not sure what you mean by "reversible", but in 1st edition AD&D, Half-Elves can be:

cleric/fighter
cleric/fighter/magic-user
cleric/ranger
cleric/magic-user
fighter/magic-user
fighter/thief
fighter/magic-user/thief
magic-user/thief

The information about multi-classing can be found on pages 32 and 33 of the Player’s Handbook (well, at least on those pages of the premium re-print of the Player’s Handbook anyway). :smallsmile:

[Thrudd]

I have been planning to make a half elf Multiclassing character I couldn't find anything in the rules about whether cleric is reversible with thief or if fighter is reversible with ranger

Cleric/thief is only allowed to half-orcs.

[Lord Torath]

Of course, it never hurts to ask the DM for an exception. The worst he can tell you is "No." Okay, that's not really the worst thing he can say. He can say "Get Out NOW!" or "I'll kill you for even asking!" But really, how likely are either of those?

[viking vince]

Important point coming up:

In 1e, there is multi class characters and characters with 2 classes (sometimes called dual class). These are NOT the same thing.

In 1e, only humans can dual class and only demi-humans can multi class.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Important point coming up:

In 1e, there is multi class characters and characters with 2 classes (sometimes called dual class). These are NOT the same thing.

In 1e, only humans can dual class and only demi-humans can multi class.
Although, in what's become an infamous error, only humans and Half-Elves are allowed to become Bards, and you have to dual-class (actually trual-class) to do that. :smallamused:

Ranger is a sub-class of Fighter, so you can't multi-class Ranger/Fighter - given the only restriction on a Ranger over a Fighter is you need better stats and you get fewer average hit points at medium-high level (level 5 puts the Fighter ahead by half a hit point on average), there's no point anyway.

[obryn]

Although, in what's become an infamous error, only humans and Half-Elves are allowed to become Bards, and you have to dual-class (actually trual-class) to do that. :smallamused:
I don't think that's an error... That's referred to directly in the 1e Bard write up. :smallsmile:

[viking vince]

Although, in what's become an infamous error, only humans and Half-Elves are allowed to become Bards, and you have to dual-class (actually trual-class) to do that. :smallamused:

Ranger is a sub-class of Fighter, so you can't multi-class Ranger/Fighter - given the only restriction on a Ranger over a Fighter is you need better stats and you get fewer average hit points at medium-high level (level 5 puts the Fighter ahead by half a hit point on average), there's no point anyway.

Ture, bards follow their own rules.

In 1e, there is no rule against being a Fighter and then a Ranger (that rule does exist in 2e, however).

[LibraryOgre]

Ture, bards follow their own rules.

In 1e, there is no rule against being a Fighter and then a Ranger (that rule does exist in 2e, however).

There is one against being an anything and then an assassin, illusionist or monk, since they don't have prime requisites to qualify with.

[viking vince]

There is one against being an anything and then an assassin, illusionist or monk, since they don't have prime requisites to qualify with.

I read that section of the rules the same way you do, but it is a debatable point (depending on how you interpret prioe requisites).

[MeeposFire]

I don't think that's an error... That's referred to directly in the 1e Bard write up. :smallsmile:

Well it is a strange situation as first you have to assume that the bard write states this as a specific exception to the rules. Granted this is a fair judgement and one everybody essentially lives with but it is an odd way of doing things.

Even stranger is if you start down the path as a half elf and then are forced to stop (such as you lost your ability scores before you finish or anything else you can think of). What happens then? Do you keep on being dual classed even though you will never be a bard but you normally cannot be dual classed?

Also even if you are human as I recall it says you need to dual class into those classes but do you only need the bard ability score requirements or do you need to have the dual class requirements too? The rules make you think that the normal ability score requirements are voided but they never do actually say that anywhere (as if the requirements needed to be higher right).

I don't actually think you should use these quandaries in a game but from a rules discussion point of view that is some weird stuff back then right there.

[obryn]

Well it is a strange situation as first you have to assume that the bard write states this as a specific exception to the rules. Granted this is a fair judgement and one everybody essentially lives with but it is an odd way of doing things.
You know, I had remembered something being there that wasn't there. Perhaps it was addressed in a Dragon article or something. I had thought it specifically says a Half-Elf can start out as a multiclassed Fighter/Thief, but I was wrong!

As with soooo many other things in AD&D, I think it's foolhardy to try and follow precise RAW since the RAW is frequently unclear, even more frequently overcomplicated, and even occasionally contradictory. Like we have here. :smallbiggrin:

[MeeposFire]

You know, I had remembered something being there that wasn't there. Perhaps it was addressed in a Dragon article or something. I had thought it specifically says a Half-Elf can start out as a multiclassed Fighter/Thief, but I was wrong!

As with soooo many other things in AD&D, I think it's foolhardy to try and follow precise RAW since the RAW is frequently unclear, even more frequently overcomplicated, and even occasionally contradictory. Like we have here. :smallbiggrin:

I have heard of people deciding to do it that way but they may have had to change the rules on the exact levels you need in each class since I have not looked at the XP tables to see if it works out with no changes.

Granted becoming a bard is so hard to do in terms of ability scores (even without including the possible dual class requirements that many assume you should not use) that I have to see someone actually try to do it in game.