Sport "minigame": fun or tedious?

[Sindeloke]

One of the important national pastimes in the central nation of my setting is a sort of... ice lacrosse game, you could say, where two teams race around a large circular rink trying to get a ball through any of four hoops set up at the cardinal directions. Passing is mandatory, checking is encouraged.

A situation has come up in which one of the PCs, who has as part of his background that he played semi-competitively, got in a pissing match with an important NPC, and suddenly one of their options for progressing their quest is to beat this guy's team in a pick-up match. They haven't decided whether they want to agree or not, and I have no idea what to do if they do. Do I try to rig some kind of skill challenge with athletics checks? Do I try to have them actually play it out (60 rounds even with 1-minute rounds!) with Dash and Shove and some kind of ad-hoc passing mechanic? Rolls for the bulk of the game and quick "cutscenes" of pivotal moments?

[Jormengand]

Don't knock using a different system to resolve the game - look into Blood Bowl, only with the insanity taken out.

[Brendanicus]

Tedious. Think about this from your players' perspectives. Do they want to go on epic adventures, roleplay, or play ice hockey minigames?

The biggest problem I have with campaign writing is that there's never enough time to put in everything you want. Don't waste valuable time. PM me if you want to work on a replacement encounter together.

[Chaosvii7]

The game could, be in of itself, an encounter. It could be a chase scene with the ball as the objective, a skill challenge to play the game out, or just a special form of combat in which all the characters can do is shove each other and grab the ball(perhaps if they have an implement to catch the ball or manipulate it with and the game's a little barbaric they can be permitted to whack people over the head with it).

I understand the desire for and attention to thematic depth, but I think you're overthinking it just one step. Being able to use what you already have is a great asset, and I think there's enough ground to cover with the rules already established.

[Stan]

I've played around with sport in the game and it can be fun or just a distraction. Ask the players if they wanna go full out or just do a couple of rolls. If the former, it's kinda like combat but no weapons attacks, just shoving, tripping, and maybe punching. Give the goals an AC and a range for shooting like 10/30. Bodies in the way give the goal cover. Disarming causes a player to drop the ball. Is nonlethal magic or is it mundane only? Maybe athletics proficiency lets you add prof bonus to shots and disarms. Decide if passing is automatic, takes a roll to throw and/or catch, and whether interception is possible.

Keep the players on each team low, like the number of PCs so it doesn't drag down. Also don't try to calculate the number of rounds based on the lengths of earthly sports matches or you'll get an insane number. Just go 10-20 rounds or to a certain score. A hundred yard field is too long, maybe 100 feet?

[Nifft]

Is there a plot-relevant part of the sports event? Do just that part.

Is there a secondary layer of the sports event which is not strictly sports, but rather espionage or the like?

Is there a part of the sports event which resembles combat, and has combat-equivalent consequences (e.g. debilitating injury or death)?

A sports event could be interesting, if you focus on the plot-relevant not-strictly-sports aspects of it.

- - -

Like, I dunno, there's a really big bet on the underdog, and the PCs are hired to ensure no rule-breaking occurs. They need to:
- Secure the venue.
- Watch the crowd for saboteurs.
- Watch the sports teams for unsportsmanlike behavior, magic, and/or poison use.
- Catch the referee who is secretly a half-fiend githyankee and making bad calls deliberately to spite his bitter enemy, the githmets.

[Ziegander]

I'd think if you played out the match with the caveat of "first to 3 goals wins," then it would be a lot of fun yet still wouldn't take up too much more time than any one combat encounter.

[Ramshack]

While you can certainly make this a full game, such as skill checks for passing, skill checks for shooting a shot vs the defender skill roll to block etc etc. Could be interesting most likely tedious. I would probably make a few rolls so a 60 minute game and do like 4 rolls for each quarter to see who did better. You could have each member roll an athletics check for each quarter compare against the opposing teams for each quarter add the totals and say have points for whcih ever team beats the other team. Say 1 per for every 5 the other team did better. Then do it again for the next quarter. Do this 4 times who ever has the most points wins the match.

As an example
PC Team rolls a 12, 10, 20, 15 for a total of 57
Opposing Team rolls a 15, 10, 5, 12 for a total of 42.

PCs won by 15 which equates to say 3 goals

Then do this again for the next round. etc etc

[Chaosvii7]

Here, take some simple rules for the sport:

The group goes as one, then the opposing team goes. If the game requires a uniform, then set their ACs to 12 + Dex mod. If the game requires equipment like a bat or rod(and the game allows for you to say, bludgeon your opponents over the head with it), make it a 1d8 weapon with finesse and versatile(1d10) that can only make one attack per round regardless of how many attacks the players actually have. Make the ball ammo for the weapon that allows you to make a ranged attack at 20/60 range which does no damage but, if it hits the goal (AC 16 - 18 depending on how hard you want it to be), then it scores them a point. 3 points wins the game. No tools means that you can just throw the ball without it.

Combat options include, shove, steal, grab, and others if you can make them work. You can have them make checks to keep stable if they hit or get hit.

I think that's robust enough while keeping it to the rules of the game.

[ruy343]

There's nothing that says that you have to keep playing the game either...

What if the pick-up match is a set-up? After all, it's a rival of the PCs that's inviting them to play. Instruct them to take off their armor/gear, and take to the field. Perhaps after the first PC goal, the opposing team turns out to be just thugs, who take advantage of the PCs weakness and begin to beat on them with their quarterstaff-like nets, to mess them up for being friends with that PC. The moment a sword or knife is drawn, have them run, and make the guy a recurring thug, who follows them around, looking for a chance to get even.

As for how to adjudicate the game up until that one goal, have them roll some skill checks as part of a skill challenge a la 4th edition. Some narratives for skill checks that they choose to use might be as follows.

Sleight of Hand - Steal the ball
Athletics - Get the ball further downfield
Acrobatics - Dodge opponents trying to take the ball
Intelligence (proficiency in the game equipment can be a bonus here) - understanding of important plays and tactics in the game to give the team an edge
Insight - Discover an opponent's weakness (a left leg limp that slows his turn that direction, a stick-hold that is weaker than most, etc)


With checks like that, you can allow most characters to participate with something they're good at. Maybe have them complete 6 good checks before 3 failures? either way, the first goal triggers the fight scene; perhaps while the PCs are trying to score again! don't tell them when the thugs begin attacking; make it look "accidental" at first.

[Slipperychicken]

One of the important national pastimes in the central nation of my setting is a sort of... ice lacrosse game, you could say, where two teams race around a large circular rink trying to get a ball through any of four hoops set up at the cardinal directions. Passing is mandatory, checking is encouraged.


You could outright make it a sort of more-brutal rugby. Then it's like combat, only the PCs win by moving balls past lines, rather than defeating enemies. Maybe they're penalized for KO-ing opponents during play or something like that to prevent them from just beating people to death instead of playing.

[GiantOctopodes]

Don't knock using a different system to resolve the game - look into Blood Bowl, only with the insanity taken out.

I second and third this notion, though I disagree about the insanity needing to be taken out :smallbiggrin:

If this is going to be a recurring thing, like Blitz Ball in FFVII sort of recurring thing, then certainly having a system to represent it is fantastic, and as long as your players are having fun it doesn't really matter what form that takes. Heck, it can provide a nice change of pace! However, if your players aren't interested I certainly wouldn't waste a bunch of time on it, of course.

[Sigreid]

This whole setup depends on your party. Some would really enjoy this while others will find it annoying.

[Mr.Moron]

This whole setup depends on your party. Some would really enjoy this while others will find it annoying.

Yeah. It's subjective. My group loves this kind of stuff, this board in general seems to be against it.

If your players are generally find with winging it, like it when you make up odd-ball mechanics on the spot and in general just kind of roll with the game as it comes they'll probably enjoy a well-done minigame.
If your players generally like to plan "Builds" for their characters, debate RAW or ever use terms like "DPR" they'll hate it - they want to use the mechanics they've already solved.

If your players are something a mix, I'd probably err on the side of shying away from it. All it takes is 1 person who doesn't like it to turn into a miserable experience for everyone.



Don't knock using a different system to resolve the game - look into Blood Bowl, only with the insanity taken out.

This can work pretty well. In one of my games the players were at a sporting event, and the session ended while after their characters were placed bets. A few days later we had our regular board game/wargame night, so we played the TT version of the game their characters were betting on and used the results as the in-unvierse outcomes for our next RPG session.

[Sindeloke]

Thanks a lot for all the input, everyone! After a bit of discussion my party ended up going for it, and I laid out all your suggestions and asked my players what sounded good to them. Eventually we rolled ability checks for the first three quarters and then started playing out the third with some slightly modified combat rules (goals had AC 17, allies were AC 10 before cover, you could use a reaction to try to intercept a throw that went within 5 feet of you with Athletics). I had a "dissolves messily into combat" plan ready in case they got bored, but they seemed to enjoy the change of pace - at least, long enough to get a four-goal lead, which I ruled was insurmountable for the baddies and just narrated out the rest.

On the way out my sorc (who spent the match cheating with Subtle Spell, but managed not to get caught) said all eagerly "next time let's try that Blood Bowl thing," so I'm going to call it a success. :smallbiggrin: