Mass Effect General Thread II: The Other Final Frontier

[Psyren]

Mass Effect General Thread 2: The Other Final Frontier

This is the fourteenth 2nd thread for discussing the Mass Effect franchise, with the current main concern being rampant speculation (and hopefully soon previews and play experience) with the fourth installment, Mass Effect Andromeda. Will Bioware successfully extricate themselves from the corner they've written themselves into? Will Unreal -> Frostbite be as big a boon as Aurora -> Frostbite was? Will we get another Turian obsessed with calibrations? All this and more will be discussed below.

Past threads:

Thread 1: (Spoilers!) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194327)
Thread 2: We Fight and We Whine. That's the Plan. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206184)
Thread 3: The Important Thing is not Whining, it's Participosting. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227543)
Thread 4: Would've Liked to Perform Experiments on Seashells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235649)
Thread 5: Does This Thread Have a Soul? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237894)
Thread 6: Are You Engaging in Reproductive Behavior With This Thread? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242838)
Thread 7: "Now all we need is a gun that fires thresher maws!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274775)
Thread 8: "That was for Thane!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254563)
Thread 9: "How things begin isn't nearly as important as how they end." (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262997)
Thread 10: Stood Fast, Stood Strong, Stood Together (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287008)
Thread 11: "Black tie required" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310535)
Thread 12: Twelve Whole Kirrahes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?324896-Mass-Effect-3-12-whole-Kirrahes)

*Reboot*

Thread 1: General Thread of Awesomeness. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377511-Mass-Effect-General-thread-of-Awesomeness)

Discuss away, and we can do the sharing MP information thing later on.

[5ColouredWalker]

I wonder, how many In Game examples do we have of Asari Commando's not stacking up do we have vs claims they are the bees knees?

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I've decided that I really hate the Geth Rocket Troopers in multiplayer. There just doesn't seem to be any counterplay.

The Nemesis takes her time and then telegraphs her attacks both audibly and visually. The moment I see a Rocket Trooper I've already been hit and good luck getting a return shot off thanks to its annoying dodging capability. And because the Rocket Troopers are relatively low tier, you get a lot more of them earlier on.

The Phantom is another one. It's not the instant-kill melee, the flipping, the invisibility, or even the anti-power barrier. It's her ranged attacks, of all things. I just feel like they do too much damage, and are impossible to dodge for a stealth melee specialist.

The Reapers are pretty okay IMHO. Being instant-killed by a Banshee teleporting behind you sucks, but that's a question of awareness more than anything.

[Inarius]

I've decided that I really hate the Geth Rocket Troopers in multiplayer. There just doesn't seem to be any counterplay.

The Nemesis takes her time and then telegraphs her attacks both audibly and visually. The moment I see a Rocket Trooper I've already been hit and good luck getting a return shot off thanks to its annoying dodging capability. And because the Rocket Troopers are relatively low tier, you get a lot more of them earlier on.

The Phantom is another one. It's not the instant-kill melee, the flipping, the invisibility, or even the anti-power barrier. It's her ranged attacks, of all things. I just feel like they do too much damage, and are impossible to dodge for a stealth melee specialist.

The Reapers are pretty okay IMHO. Being instant-killed by a Banshee teleporting behind you sucks, but that's a question of awareness more than anything.

Definitely with you on the Phantom ranged attack, just feels like its got a bit too much oomph for a character designed to be a potent melee character. As far as the rocket troopers go, they can be annoying but I don't find them to be too bad especially since I feel the geth have fewer annoying mobs than the other factions do.

[5ColouredWalker]

That, and blowing up rockets mid-air is fun.


Also, I had similar thoughts about the Phantom origionally, but in group battles I rarely notice it, and my awareness is pretty good in ME.

The fact I now almost exclusively play the Geth Juggernaught probably helps that though. I have to be very aware, but I have to screw up pretty bad for it to become a major problem.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I managed to pick up the Geth Engineer and the Geth Infiltrator recently, but no Juggernaut yet.

Any suggestions on what gun to give the N7 Destroyer? I tried the Revenant, since that worked well on the Turian Soldier, but it went terribly. And I seriously wonder if the Hawk Missiles are of any use. I thought the extra damage would help, but it just seems underwhelming.

[Dienekes]

I wonder, how many In Game examples do we have of Asari Commando's not stacking up do we have vs claims they are the bees knees?

In story? I can't think of a single time Asari Commando's did anything but lose. Hell, they even lost their planet, which puts them at the same level of competence as the Elcor and the Quarians, and below literally everyone else in the setting.

In the game? I remember murdering Asari Commando's as frequently and as easily as Salarian Engineers in ME2, and were much easier to deal with than Krogan Warlords. But we also have Samara on your squad, who is pretty much a Commando on crack, and she seems fairly competent, though a bit single minded to the point of crazy.

[Psyren]

I managed to pick up the Geth Engineer and the Geth Infiltrator recently, but no Juggernaut yet.

Any suggestions on what gun to give the N7 Destroyer? I tried the Revenant, since that worked well on the Turian Soldier, but it went terribly. And I seriously wonder if the Hawk Missiles are of any use. I thought the extra damage would help, but it just seems underwhelming.

The Hawk Missiles (I use the Hydra evolution) are in fact extremely useful. They flinch enemies you're shooting at to keep the from returning fire (Marauders, Centurions and Collector Captains in particular need this treatment.) They also auto-detonate your fire explosions if you use fire ammo (which you should.) Your cluster-frag-grenades will also detonate fire explosions. This is the biggest source of the Devastator's damage and will have you topping meters in no time.

My N7 uses the collector weapons - Devastator mode makes the Collector AR almost perfectly accurate, and the increased clip capacity works with the Collector Sniper. If you have a high-level one, the Particle Rifle is the best gun with them because they can increase the clip capacity on that too. But in general, you should use the heaviest gun you can because none of their powers have a cooldown. (Well, Devastator Mode does, but there's no real reason to turn it off, most of the time the DR will outweight the need to roll.)


I've decided that I really hate the Geth Rocket Troopers in multiplayer. There just doesn't seem to be any counterplay.

The Nemesis takes her time and then telegraphs her attacks both audibly and visually. The moment I see a Rocket Trooper I've already been hit and good luck getting a return shot off thanks to its annoying dodging capability. And because the Rocket Troopers are relatively low tier, you get a lot more of them earlier on.

The Phantom is another one. It's not the instant-kill melee, the flipping, the invisibility, or even the anti-power barrier. It's her ranged attacks, of all things. I just feel like they do too much damage, and are impossible to dodge for a stealth melee specialist.

The Reapers are pretty okay IMHO. Being instant-killed by a Banshee teleporting behind you sucks, but that's a question of awareness more than anything.

Rocket Troopers telegraph too but they use an audio cue rather than a visual laser, so if your sound is down it makes fighting them much harder. It's a very high-pitched double-beep right before they fire, and with practice you can dodge the rocket even with no cover between you and them.

[5ColouredWalker]

In story? I can't think of a single time Asari Commando's did anything but lose. Hell, they even lost their planet, which puts them at the same level of competence as the Elcor and the Quarians, and below literally everyone else in the setting.

In the game? I remember murdering Asari Commando's as frequently and as easily as Salarian Engineers in ME2, and were much easier to deal with than Krogan Warlords. But we also have Samara on your squad, who is pretty much a Commando on crack, and she seems fairly competent, though a bit single minded to the point of crazy.

To my knowledge, the Asari only lost Thesia in the same way the Humans lost Earth. They don't control it, but they're still fighting.

Where in ME2 do you fight Asari Commandos? Asari Mercs I gunned down by the dozen, sure, but I don't remember any commandos. And if you treat Samara as a commando, I think you have to treat Vasir as one, and the only reason she looses is because she's an AI bot.

Also, Asari are rather nerfed in 2 and 3, they don't display biotics other than having their shields labelled barriers, so I'm not sure you can truly count them.

[Dienekes]

To my knowledge, the Asari only lost Thesia in the same way the Humans lost Earth. They don't control it, but they're still fighting.

Where in ME2 do you fight Asari Commandos? Asari Mercs I gunned down by the dozen, sure, but I don't remember any commandos. And if you treat Samara as a commando, I think you have to treat Vasir as one, and the only reason she looses is because she's an AI bot.

Also, Asari are rather nerfed in 2 and 3, they don't display biotics other than having their shields labelled barriers, so I'm not sure you can truly count them.

Just looked, and you are correct. I thought the Eclipse guys were labelled Asari Commando's but they are not. Instead, we just have to judge them by the ones that you murder with relative ease alongside Benezia. Still not impressive.

As to Thessia, looking at the Codex seems to imply that it is fallen, much worse than Earth. The Codex mentions fighting at the ground level on Earth, and Palaven, the battle's never wholly lost. It says this about Thessia:


As soon as the Reapers landed on Thessia, the harvesting began.

A swift and brutal slaughter of the asari ground forces followed. Resistance from trained biotics barely slowed the attackers down. In the end, Thessia's minimal military forces, combined with unpreparedness in the face of an overwhelming enemy, resulted in the fall of the planet.

Which suggests that the fighting is over, Thessia was lost.

[5ColouredWalker]

Ah, my mistake... Yes, that is sad.

[Dienekes]

Ah, my mistake... Yes, that is sad.

Honestly, I feel worse about the Elcor. They at least were an interesting species.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

The Hawk Missiles (I use the Hydra evolution) are in fact extremely useful. They flinch enemies you're shooting at to keep the from returning fire (Marauders, Centurions and Collector Captains in particular need this treatment.) They also auto-detonate your fire explosions if you use fire ammo (which you should.) Your cluster-frag-grenades will also detonate fire explosions. This is the biggest source of the Devastator's damage and will have you topping meters in no time.


Thanks. After resetting my powers and getting Hydra, it does seem to be more effective. Maybe a little too effective; if I take too long for the kill the Hawk has a tendency of finishing my targets for me. But that's a good thing I suppose.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Still debating romances...Liara or Tali? Liara or Tali? Hmmmm....

[Landis963]

Still debating romances...Liara or Tali? Liara or Tali? Hmmmm....

Do you want to put it to a vote? The various cases for and against each are still recent enough that they may not need rehashing.

[Leon]

I wonder what the class options will be for 4

[Landis963]

I wonder what the class options will be for 4

Presumably the exact same 6 - Soldier, Engineer, Adept, Vanguard, Sentinel, Infiltrator. It's a vital and iconic part of the gameplay to have those archetypes, I'd argue as iconic as the Paragon/Renegade system.

[Dienekes]

Presumably the exact same 6 - Soldier, Engineer, Adept, Vanguard, Sentinel, Infiltrator. It's a vital and iconic part of the gameplay to have those archetypes, I'd argue as iconic as the Paragon/Renegade system.

Landis is probably right. Though, I think it's a bit of a pity, as ME3's multiplayer seems to have been a testing ground for numerous unique abilities that would be hard to fit into the old 6.

[Morty]

I hope they do away with the old six classes. "Iconic" doesn't mean anything, and the franchise has outgrown them. Like Dienekes said, the options in ME3 multiplayer already went increasingly beyond them.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Do you want to put it to a vote? The various cases for and against each are still recent enough that they may not need rehashing.

Maybe. It honestly feels like I'll regret it storywise either way, as it feels like both have strong plot connections that are severed if not romanced...:smallsigh:

[Psyren]

Given that "if not romanced" is a major concern for you, the obvious choice is to avoid Tali since she ends up finding love regardless, and it's someone who can eat her food even.


I hope they do away with the old six classes. "Iconic" doesn't mean anything, and the franchise has outgrown them. Like Dienekes said, the options in ME3 multiplayer already went increasingly beyond them.

I agree to an extent - I think letting us mix and match abilities more freely than being stuck with a single "bonus power" (without modding, anyway) is the best approach. Having said that, I do think that the class-defining powers like Biotic Charge and Tactical Cloak should be more difficult to move around, and I want armor weight to mean something again.

[Dienekes]

Given that "if not romanced" is a major concern for you, the obvious choice is to avoid Tali since she ends up finding love regardless, and it's someone who can eat her food even.



I agree to an extent - I think letting us mix and match abilities more freely than being stuck with a single "bonus power" (without modding, anyway) is the best approach. Having said that, I do think that the class-defining powers like Biotic Charge and Tactical Cloak should be more difficult to move around, and I want armor weight to mean something again.

There's always a give and take with this. Mix and match is great for players that already have system mastery, while it can lead new players picking poor combinations and bad builds.

I think Bioware is going to stick with the approach that will be more newbie friendly. Because, Mass Effect 1-3 was its own complete story. There are gonna be players who drop out of the series because they will feel this is a cash grab on an already completed story. While being a new beginning this game can be seen as a welcome to get new players interested. I think it would be a better business decision to do set classes.

Mind you, I hope I'm wrong. Getting more freedom to pick abilities would be great.

[Lethologica]

Given that "if not romanced" is a major concern for you, the obvious choice is to avoid Tali since she ends up finding love regardless, and it's someone who can eat her food even.
I think we can append an implied "by Shepard" to Zousha's statement, considering his concern isn't maximizing the number of romances on board, but accessing plot connections related to Shepard's romances.

Personally I think Liara has a distinct advantage if one has Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, and Tali has the advantage otherwise, because ME2 romance content > ME1 romance content but with LotSB you get Liara romance content for all three games.

[Calemyr]

Personally I think Liara has a distinct advantage if one has Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, and Tali has the advantage otherwise, because ME2 romance content > ME1 romance content but with LotSB you get Liara romance content for all three games.

Yeah, I gotta agree, there. Without LotSB, Liara comes off as cool and rather uncaring when you work with her in ME2. With LotSB, her attitude takes a very different tone: she's terrified of how Shep might feel about her given the whole "stole you from the Shadow Broker and gave you to Ceberus" thing, and is fighting like hell to keep her distance due to that heart-rending uncertainty. So... yeah, the presence of Lair in your personal headcanon really should carry some weight.

One interesting path with these two is both. Romance Liara in ME1, then by ME2 Liara is so distant that Shep thinks the relationship died with him then Tali sees the opening and takes it. Then LotSB rolls around and, in the finale of the DLC, there's a talk with Liara in Shep's cabin where Liara says she isn't upset about Shep/Tali, that she always knew the quarian had a crush on the commander, but wasn't about to direct Shep's attention towards a potential rival. Then ME3 hits and Liara finally regains the balance she was lacking in ME2 and that old chemistry lights up again, leaving Tali the odd woman out once more. Besides including both options in one playthrough in a narratively cohesive manner, it also adds what I see as a bit of a needed flaw in Shep.

[Morty]

I agree to an extent - I think letting us mix and match abilities more freely than being stuck with a single "bonus power" (without modding, anyway) is the best approach. Having said that, I do think that the class-defining powers like Biotic Charge and Tactical Cloak should be more difficult to move around, and I want armor weight to mean something again.

My opinion about that, as I've said in some previous threads, is that classes should be built around roles, leaving players to pick from different powers that fit those roles - whether they're biotic, combat or tech. Like, if you play a Soldier, you're a durable frontline shock-troop, whether that means you pack heavy guns and heavy armour, or biotic barriers and simple but hard-hitting powers.

[Psyren]

Yeah, I gotta agree, there. Without LotSB, Liara comes off as cool and rather uncaring when you work with her in ME2. With LotSB, her attitude takes a very different tone: she's terrified of how Shep might feel about her given the whole "stole you from the Shadow Broker and gave you to Ceberus" thing, and is fighting like hell to keep her distance due to that heart-rending uncertainty. So... yeah, the presence of Lair in your personal headcanon really should carry some weight.

One interesting path with these two is both. Romance Liara in ME1, then by ME2 Liara is so distant that Shep thinks the relationship died with him then Tali sees the opening and takes it. Then LotSB rolls around and, in the finale of the DLC, there's a talk with Liara in Shep's cabin where Liara says she isn't upset about Shep/Tali, that she always knew the quarian had a crush on the commander, but wasn't about to direct Shep's attention towards a potential rival. Then ME3 hits and Liara finally regains the balance she was lacking in ME2 and that old chemistry lights up again, leaving Tali the odd woman out once more. Besides including both options in one playthrough in a narratively cohesive manner, it also adds what I see as a bit of a needed flaw in Shep.

Oh man, that is brilliant. And Tali even hooks up with Garrus this way so she won't be heartbroken. This will be my new straightshep :smallbiggrin:

...Hey, I wonder - what's it like for a FemShep who romanced Kaidan or Liara in ME1, Jacob in ME2, then rekindles the ME1 flame before Jacob re-enters the game in ME3? Can you two be all like: "I cheated on you with Brynn." "Whew, that's a relief! I banged Kaidan again before even coming out here and I was wracking my brain for a way to break up with your sorry ass."


There's always a give and take with this. Mix and match is great for players that already have system mastery, while it can lead new players picking poor combinations and bad builds.

I think Bioware is going to stick with the approach that will be more newbie friendly. Because, Mass Effect 1-3 was its own complete story. There are gonna be players who drop out of the series because they will feel this is a cash grab on an already completed story. While being a new beginning this game can be seen as a welcome to get new players interested. I think it would be a better business decision to do set classes.

Mind you, I hope I'm wrong. Getting more freedom to pick abilities would be great.

Dark Souls/Elder Scrolls handled this well I think - make classes into decently-balanced "presets" for the newer players, then have a "custom" option for the experienced ones who want to squeeze maximum effectiveness out of their builds.

[Calemyr]

Oh man, that is brilliant. And Tali even hooks up with Garrus this way so she won't be heartbroken. This will be my new straightshep :smallbiggrin:

...Hey, I wonder - what's it like for a FemShep who romanced Kaidan or Liara in ME1, Jacob in ME2, then rekindles the ME1 flame before Jacob re-enters the game in ME3? Can you two be all like: "I cheated on you with Brynn." "Whew, that's a relief! I banged Kaidan again before even coming out here and I was wracking my brain for a way to break up with your sorry ass."

I rather doubt it. Jacob was put on a bus so hard he forgot to pack. Never tried, though. Honestly, I didn't find any of Femshep's options in ME2 interesting enough to pick her over Shep, despite the notable (but comically overblown) disparity in their voicing. Tali, Jack, and Miranda were all much more interesting to me.

Quick question for anyone who's into modding at all for ME3: Does anyone know of a mod that turns the Citadel arena armor into a standard DLC armor (i.e. available from the start)? I've always liked that one (especially when reskinned using the N7 textures from multiplayer rather than the Cerberus default), but it always annoyed me how late it was in the game.

[Psyren]

I rather doubt it. Jacob was put on a bus so hard he forgot to pack. Never tried, though. Honestly, I didn't find any of Femshep's options in ME2 interesting enough to pick her over Shep, despite the notable (but comically overblown) disparity in their voicing. Tali, Jack, and Miranda were all much more interesting to me.

*coughGarruscough*

You have a point on the other (straight) femshep options, though I'd wager that's one reason why so many femsheps ended up with Liara.



Quick question for anyone who's into modding at all for ME3: Does anyone know of a mod that turns the Citadel arena armor into a standard DLC armor (i.e. available from the start)? I've always liked that one (especially when reskinned using the N7 textures from multiplayer rather than the Cerberus default), but it always annoyed me how late it was in the game.

Haven't tried it myself but maybe this'll help? (http://forum.bioware.com/topic/460803-hr-textures-meshmods-by-ottemis/)

[Calemyr]

*coughGarruscough*

You have a point on the other (straight) femshep options, though I'd wager that's one reason why so many femsheps ended up with Liara.

You should really monitor that cough. Honestly, though, even he appeals to me more as a wingman than a LI. As I've said before, it is nice that he's a peer like Liara is but... well... I hate watching people make fools of themselves (I can't stand most TV because of it) and Garrus's awkwardness is hard for me to watch, so I never get far enough in to for him to really show much confidence. I've seen youtube clips of his shining moments (such as visiting the casino in Citadel), but honestly I'd much rather watch him be his confident, awesome, wingman self.


Haven't tried it myself but maybe this'll help? (http://forum.bioware.com/topic/460803-hr-textures-meshmods-by-ottemis/)

I know where to get and how to use textures, I just wish I could get it to unlock once Mars is done, the way the Blood Dragon or Reckoner or Cerberus AJAX armors do. I hate waiting until more than half the game's past before I can wear what I consider my Shep's iconic armor.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yeah, I gotta agree, there. Without LotSB, Liara comes off as cool and rather uncaring when you work with her in ME2. With LotSB, her attitude takes a very different tone: she's terrified of how Shep might feel about her given the whole "stole you from the Shadow Broker and gave you to Ceberus" thing, and is fighting like hell to keep her distance due to that heart-rending uncertainty. So... yeah, the presence of Lair in your personal headcanon really should carry some weight.

One interesting path with these two is both. Romance Liara in ME1, then by ME2 Liara is so distant that Shep thinks the relationship died with him then Tali sees the opening and takes it. Then LotSB rolls around and, in the finale of the DLC, there's a talk with Liara in Shep's cabin where Liara says she isn't upset about Shep/Tali, that she always knew the quarian had a crush on the commander, but wasn't about to direct Shep's attention towards a potential rival. Then ME3 hits and Liara finally regains the balance she was lacking in ME2 and that old chemistry lights up again, leaving Tali the odd woman out once more. Besides including both options in one playthrough in a narratively cohesive manner, it also adds what I see as a bit of a needed flaw in Shep.
Hmmm...I think I might like doing it this way. It...flows very well, for lack of a better term. And I do have LotSB, so I'm fine.

How does it work out in 3 afterwards? Is there a point where you "pick?" I know it's gonna hurt at some point, but I'm not sure how bad that'll end up...I dunno.

[Landis963]

Yeah, I gotta agree, there. Without LotSB, Liara comes off as cool and rather uncaring when you work with her in ME2. With LotSB, her attitude takes a very different tone: she's terrified of how Shep might feel about her given the whole "stole you from the Shadow Broker and gave you to Ceberus" thing, and is fighting like hell to keep her distance due to that heart-rending uncertainty. So... yeah, the presence of Lair in your personal headcanon really should carry some weight.

One interesting path with these two is both. Romance Liara in ME1, then by ME2 Liara is so distant that Shep thinks the relationship died with him then Tali sees the opening and takes it. Then LotSB rolls around and, in the finale of the DLC, there's a talk with Liara in Shep's cabin where Liara says she isn't upset about Shep/Tali, that she always knew the quarian had a crush on the commander, but wasn't about to direct Shep's attention towards a potential rival. Then ME3 hits and Liara finally regains the balance she was lacking in ME2 and that old chemistry lights up again, leaving Tali the odd woman out once more. Besides including both options in one playthrough in a narratively cohesive manner, it also adds what I see as a bit of a needed flaw in Shep.

This is brilliant. When I did my "canon" playthrough (the one where Kaidan friendzoned me) I'd been RPing his flaws as self-centeredness, control freakery and a bit of a temper, characterized by the occasional Renegade flare-up (He resolved the Tali/Legion conflict in ME2 with the Renegade rant, for instance), mostly derived from headcanon stuff regarding his orphan, gang-running, Earthborn origins. Yours is much more integrated with the more established romances and more origin-agnostic, which helps a lot when applying it to any specific Shep.

[Psyren]

Hmmm...I think I might like doing it this way. It...flows very well, for lack of a better term. And I do have LotSB, so I'm fine.

How does it work out in 3 afterwards? Is there a point where you "pick?" I know it's gonna hurt at some point, but I'm not sure how bad that'll end up...I dunno.

Yes, there is a point where you can "lock in" one of the two romances (after Tuchanka.) Liara will confront you before that (after Mars) if you cheated on her in ME2, but if you want more drama later you can reaffirm there without closing off Tali. Liara won't be locked in until her "as friends" speech on the Citadel.

If you play your cards right you can get some very jealous and hurt dialogue out of Liara, if that's what you want that is.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Honestly more worried about Tali. She's a sweetheart (that scene in 2 where you hug her is forever etched in my brain!)

[Psyren]

Tali doesn't get jealous or hurt over you; If you lock in with Liara before running into Tali again, Tali is simply happy for you. (Of course, she has Garrus waiting in the wings, so.)

[Dienekes]

Honestly more worried about Tali. She's a sweetheart (that scene in 2 where you hug her is forever etched in my brain!)

She's an adult. They go through heartbreak, she'll live.

[LibraryOgre]

I would like to see more flexibility in class design for 4... One of my joys in multiplayer was trying the different options until I found one that matched what I wanted to be able to do.

[Rodin]

I would like to see more flexibility in class design for 4... One of my joys in multiplayer was trying the different options until I found one that matched what I wanted to be able to do.

Indeed. One thing that bugged me about the previous trilogy was how difficult it was to experience a playthrough as all six classes, since it required playing through a trilogy of already long games six times. I think I wound up doing Infiltrator, Engineer, and Vanguard on my various playthroughs, with a final Infiltrator 100% successful run to set me up in case of a sequel (my first Infiltrator run killed off the Quarians).

A smaller number of core classes (Soldier, Biotic, Techie) with subclasses that you can go into from there would help, although you'd still really need a re-spec option.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

If ME4 sticks with the standard class system, I hope they have more effect on the game other than just a set of abilities. Even something as simple as a class-specific quest, or some variations in how NPCs interact with you.

"You're an engineer? Which institute did you study at?"
"Oh, we rarely see biotic users round here."
"We need your specialized skills to sneak into the raider base."

And so on.

[Landis963]

If ME4 sticks with the standard class system, I hope they have more effect on the game other than just a set of abilities. Even something as simple as a class-specific quest, or some variations in how NPCs interact with you.

"You're an engineer? Which institute did you study at?"
"Oh, we rarely see biotic users round here."
"We need your specialized skills to sneak into the raider base."

And so on.

They did start experimenting with class-specific interrupts in the Omega DLC. (That thing with the reactor)

[Psyren]

If ME4 sticks with the standard class system, I hope they have more effect on the game other than just a set of abilities. Even something as simple as a class-specific quest, or some variations in how NPCs interact with you.

"You're an engineer? Which institute did you study at?"
"Oh, we rarely see biotic users round here."
"We need your specialized skills to sneak into the raider base."

And so on.

If DAI is any indication, they'll just have different varieties of locked door/obstacle for the three classes to bypass. Hacking for the tech classes, using biotics to smash obstacles or repair pathways, and soldier to... I'm not sure about this one. Heavy flamethrower to burn away overgrowth? Grenades to clear rubble? Jumpjets?

[Dienekes]

If DAI is any indication, they'll just have different varieties of locked door/obstacle for the three classes to bypass. Hacking for the tech classes, using biotics to smash obstacles or repair pathways, and soldier to... I'm not sure about this one. Heavy flamethrower to burn away overgrowth? Grenades to clear rubble? Jumpjets?

That was in the multiplayer and exploration. While I'm critical on DAI in a number of ways, I will say they did an ok job of remembering which race you were and whether or not you were a mage.

I still remember that ******* Solas saying I was a qunari therefore a raging brute, and then wondering why I wasn't a raging brute like everyone else of my race.

Racist knife eared bugger.

[Calemyr]

If DAI is any indication, they'll just have different varieties of locked door/obstacle for the three classes to bypass. Hacking for the tech classes, using biotics to smash obstacles or repair pathways, and soldier to... I'm not sure about this one. Heavy flamethrower to burn away overgrowth? Grenades to clear rubble? Jumpjets?

They'd only do that if it's not a protagonist-centered party. It works in DA3 because (usually) you can have all three classes in the party and call on them. It would also give hybrids either an unfair advantage or an unfair disadvantage depending on how you handle it.

I think they'd be better off just modifying the gameplay so that the classes feel more different. They've already done quite a lot in that direction already, but take it a bit further. Make vanguards fast and agile, but reliant on temporary defense boosts for survivability (vanguards: gods of the first strike, suckers for the second). Give infiltrators solid melee abilities to stress the "space ninja" feel. Make shielded sentinels feel like tanks, possibly a bit slower than most, but more accurate. Separate the cooldowns on Adepts so that they can ability spam. Let engineers focus on the flow of battle and drone support, and give the soldier enough weapons and offensive abilities to crush any conventional encounter.

[Landis963]

I still remember that ******* Solas saying I was a qunari therefore a raging brute, and then wondering why I wasn't a raging brute like everyone else of my race.

Racist knife eared bugger.

You knife-ears are all racist! :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

That was in the multiplayer and exploration. While I'm critical on DAI in a number of ways, I will say they did an ok job of remembering which race you were and whether or not you were a mage.

I still remember that ******* Solas saying I was a qunari therefore a raging brute, and then wondering why I wasn't a raging brute like everyone else of my race.

Racist knife eared bugger.

Oh I enjoy that too and I'm sure there'll be more of it. Technical limitations were holding them back before (remember, in order to make class-specific content and cutscenes, it means they need to render and record all of it even if a given playthrough will only show one.) Thanks to next-gen, they can count on a bigger engiine and more players having hard drives, which means more room to cram in things like this.

DAI proved this too, with all the mage-specific and elf-specific responses to X or Y. (Dwarves kinda got the shaft though.)


They'd only do that if it's not a protagonist-centered party. It works in DA3 because (usually) you can have all three classes in the party and call on them. It would also give hybrids either an unfair advantage or an unfair disadvantage depending on how you handle it.

Unlike previous installments though this one will be open-world; revisiting areas is likely to be a thing. So they probably won't have any qualms about making you go back to the Normandy Skyhold "The Ark" a few times if you want 100% completion.

It's a lightweight way to "reward you" for the logically consistent move of having a balanced team though - at least one biotic and at least one tech etc.



I think they'd be better off just modifying the gameplay so that the classes feel more different. They've already done quite a lot in that direction already, but take it a bit further. Make vanguards fast and agile, but reliant on temporary defense boosts for survivability (vanguards: gods of the first strike, suckers for the second). Give infiltrators solid melee abilities to stress the "space ninja" feel. Make shielded sentinels feel like tanks, possibly a bit slower than most, but more accurate. Separate the cooldowns on Adepts so that they can ability spam. Let engineers focus on the flow of battle and drone support, and give the soldier enough weapons and offensive abilities to crush any conventional encounter.

Yeah I'm happy with all this. I'd also add that armor should matter more, especially in an open-world setting where they won't have such tight control over the chest-high wall placement and where the baddies or player will be coming from. So we will need a way to cover in the environment, and more importantly, a way to survive (at least for a time) when such cover is not an option. I'm thinking less Gears of War and more Firefall.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Finally unlocked the Geth Juggernaut. Took on a couple of Silver matches, but the slow walking speed really got on my nerves. Yeah, he's as tough as a tank but also moves like one. At higher difficulties, where being caught in the crosshairs of a Turret or Ravager can take even a Juggernaut down this is less than ideal. Maybe I just need to get used to the big guy.

Tried the Lancer and the Geth Pulse Rifle. Lancer recharges ammo so no need to plod between ammo boxes, while the GPR carries a lot of ammo anyway.

[Psyren]

You should be able to tank turrets with ease. What build are you using?

[Haruspex_Pariah]

One turret I can handle easily. Multiple enemies including strong ranged attackers like turrets and Ravagers get me. I can't run away as fast as a smaller character could. Also, is it possible for the juggernaut to be staggered out of the heavy melee? I died a few times when it for some reason kept breaking off and I was surrounded. Could it have been lag? Since the melee has to be held down.

As for build I currently run 6/3/6/5/6. 3 for hex shield and 5 for the damage passives. Geth turret specced for damage. Health and shields maxed on the lower branch.

[Psyren]

One turret I can handle easily. Multiple enemies including strong ranged attackers like turrets and Ravagers get me. I can't run away as fast as a smaller character could. Also, is it possible for the juggernaut to be staggered out of the heavy melee? I died a few times when it for some reason kept breaking off and I was surrounded. Could it have been lag? Since the melee has to be held down.

As for build I currently run 6/3/6/5/6. 3 for hex shield and 5 for the damage passives. Geth turret specced for damage. Health and shields maxed on the lower branch.

DR + Shots on the Pulse right? Full healing turret?

Mine is 6/6/6/0/6, no damage passives at all. The passive increase is minimal I've found, and you'll get most of your points from Primes, Atlases, Phantoms, Banshees etc. anyway, letting you top meters easily on Gold and Platinum because you're nearly unkillable.

Drop the shield between you and the turret and leech through it - by the time it breaks through it should be dead.

[JohnTheSavage]

Personally, I go with 6/3/6/5/6, but I spec my turret for maximum shield restoration rather than damage. The weapon damage bonus counts for a lot more for me, since I almost never actually fire my siege pulses and just keep them stored for DR, so I have to rely on weapon damage more.

On that front, I have my Juggernaut equipped with a Geth Spitfire. Ammo count's manageable and Juggernauts don't have to eat a movement speed penalty in return for the extra firepower.

[Psyren]

I barely ever fire my gun - I get a Reegar or Crusader with the Omniblade attachment and use the melee drain to kill almost everything.

[5ColouredWalker]

I bring a spitfire and plasma shotgun for when nothing's in immediate reach. I also don't put anything in the turret, I find it dies to quickly to be useful.

As for dying before you can do anything, do you have Juggernaut Shields? I think I have those maxed, and I rarely am in trouble even when alone except in the later end of gold, most of the time I can walk to a shield battery-Ahem, enemy, and then alternate between recharging my shields and pulsing as I make my way to cover or the big guys.

[JohnTheSavage]

What do you mean Juggernaut Shields? Is that a power evolution or an equipment bonus or...? :smallconfused:

[5ColouredWalker]

Gear bonus. [The permanent version of Ammo/Armor upgrades.]

[JohnTheSavage]

Ohhhh. Okay, yeah, I haven't got any Juggernauts Shields so I had no idea what you were talking about. I generally roll with a Stronghold Package (improves shield strength and regen) on my Juggernaut.

What do Juggernaut Shields do?

[Dhavaer]

Ohhhh. Okay, yeah, I haven't got any Juggernauts Shields so I had no idea what you were talking about. I generally roll with a Stronghold Package (improves shield strength and regen) on my Juggernaut.

What do Juggernaut Shields do?

Shield strength + melee damage.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Juggernaut shields buff Shields and Melee damage as Dhavaer said. Makes sense for a juggernaut, though I don't have one with a high enough level to take over the other gears (Stronghold, Shield Booster).




Drop the shield between you and the turret and leech through it - by the time it breaks through it should be dead.

Can you heavy melee through your own hex shields? I had no idea. That sounds very useful.

My first and current build was based loosely on a Youtube video I watched (he took his build through a Gold match, so I was confident enough to take his word for it). That individual advocated abandoning the hex shield altogether, though I still think that 3 points in it is good enough for certain circumstances. His thinking was that the juggernaut has health and shields so thick that further toughness (beyond 6 ranks in Hardened Platform) simply slows the game down. I realize now that he seemed to have something against melee-focused juggernaut strategies. After trying it myself, I'm not so sure anymore but it made sense at the time.

I can see the merits of speccing into yet more durability and then vampire-ing all the enemies to death though. I might try that if the random number gods give me more reset cards (promotions? what's that? :smalltongue:).

[5ColouredWalker]

No, promotions are a thing. It's called grinding.

Wait, what's this about Mass Effect 3 having a Campaign?
Indoctrination!
*Blam*

[Psyren]

I bring a spitfire and plasma shotgun for when nothing's in immediate reach. I also don't put anything in the turret, I find it dies to quickly to be useful.

It is very useful. Even an iota of restore will (a) cancel out any drain effects on you so your shields can recharge (ravager acid, banshee warp, collector swarm, atlas rocket plasma etc) and (b) put you back into Shieldgate, which is especially handy when you're under fire and no enemies are in drain-range or you don't have time to use drain (e.g. if you are disabling or escorting a drone.) And for everyone who is not you, it restores far more than an iota, making you an even better tank.



Can you heavy melee through your own hex shields? I had no idea. That sounds very useful.

*Double-checks*
Yes.


I might try that if the random number gods give me more reset cards (promotions? what's that? :smalltongue:).

No, promotions are a thing. It's called grinding.


I think Haruspex was kidding.

[5ColouredWalker]

It is very useful. Even an iota of restore will (a) cancel out any drain effects on you so your shields can recharge (ravager acid, banshee warp, collector swarm, atlas rocket plasma etc) and (b) put you back into Shieldgate, which is especially handy when you're under fire and no enemies are in drain-range or you don't have time to use drain (e.g. if you are disabling or escorting a drone.) And for everyone who is not you, it restores far more than an iota, making you an even better tank.

I think Haruspex was kidding.

1: I know. And despite all that, I'd still rather have a better hex shield than a basic turret. I'm sure some have better luck with it, but if mine survives more than 5 seconds I'm either on bronze, really early in, or I can see Legion tap dancing on top of it.
I've yet to see Legion tap dancing on top of it.

2: Yes, I did notice.

[Psyren]

1: I know. And despite all that, I'd still rather have a better hex shield than a basic turret.

whynotboth.jpeg

Still, if you are going to sacrifice something for the weapon damage, the turret is the least valuable skill I agree.

I just remembered though, I use the GPS on my Prime and it works extremely well because you can charge all the shots (no taking cover.)

[Haruspex_Pariah]

For future reference, how do you guys spec out your hex shields? Pulse/Shock/Large? I might give it a go later.

[5ColouredWalker]

I generally go Strength, Shock, Large, that way it's almost as good as actually ducking behind a wall, and it hurts foes that close to melee.

[Psyren]

I generally go Strength, Shock, Large, that way it's almost as good as actually ducking behind a wall, and it hurts foes that close to melee.

Ditto, though I've found that Pulse doesn't make it much weaker and can be used to quickly stun husks, collectors etc -that are trying to surround you. I've only played with Pulse a few times though, I usually go with the build above.

[Derthric]

So I hopped into some MP yesterday for the first time in forever. And encountered a bug I had never seen before. The match started just one other player and we got to wave 3 and as we were about to complete the mission objective the game studders as another player joins us. That I have experienced many times. But then simultaneously the host dropped. No biggie, level resets. I don't mind I am going for total points accumulated so its all good. Then the wave starts and then never ever ever ends. Other players came and went and the geth just would not stop spawning. I kept fighting, I need more points for my challenges dag-nabbit. Went on for a 20 minutes before everyone else was dead and I finally let myself die too. Anyone else have this happen before?

[Haruspex_Pariah]

So I hopped into some MP yesterday for the first time in forever. And encountered a bug I had never seen before. The match started just one other player and we got to wave 3 and as we were about to complete the mission objective the game studders as another player joins us. That I have experienced many times. But then simultaneously the host dropped. No biggie, level resets. I don't mind I am going for total points accumulated so its all good. Then the wave starts and then never ever ever ends. Other players came and went and the geth just would not stop spawning. I kept fighting, I need more points for my challenges dag-nabbit. Went on for a 20 minutes before everyone else was dead and I finally let myself die too. Anyone else have this happen before?

Not that specific bug, but based on what I've experienced I don't doubt it.

I had one where our drone escort vanished (it was just after we were surrounded and launched some Cobras), causing an endless number of enemies to spawn. Somehow we caused the drone to appear again so we eventually finished, but we were real worried for 5 minutes or so. That the timer for the mission should have expired by then didn't escape my notice.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Questions about my planned maleShep (settled on Mark as a name, Sentinel for class):

First off, I'm taking Calemyr's advice on having him bounce between Liara and Tali to add some flaws to him, and I'm wondering if there's a cutoff point where if I break up with Tali after it she won't pursue a relationship with Garrus and spend the rest of the game pining after Shepard instead. I want to avoid such a scenario if possible.

Secondly I'm not sure what background options to pick. My default's been Colonist/War Hero, because it ties in with some of the batarian quests better, but Sole Survivor might be more appropriate to the greater overarching narrative, as it pertains to Cerberus and provides a nice link between Shepard and Tali, and the thresher maws too.

[5ColouredWalker]

I really don't think you need to spoil that.

I like War-Hero personally, if just so you're not out-ranked by your subordinates. As for Sole Survivor, I'm not sure how it really links to anything, unless you get Reager killed on Horrizon. And you can't do that because then you ruin his off screen moment of awesome... Ok, it's off screen, you can get him killed, it's just bad for the trial if you attempt to just bull rush it, though that's a stupid option as far as I'm concerned, and I head canon it away, despite it being the best option.

[Calemyr]

A couple that I am fond of:
Earthbound War Hero - Started from the dregs and made a hero of himself.

Spacer War Hero - I still really enjoy the fact that Shep's mother is still alive.

Colonist Sole Survivor - A particularly good one for the L-T Shep. This is a person who's lost everything, again and again. His home destroyed, his unit destroyed, his name dishonored, his ship demolished, "betrayed" by his lover, betrayed by his own race, repeatedly diminished by the council, used and discarded by his employer, and yet again and again he pulls himself back up, never staying down.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Does L - T mean "Liara - Tali?"

[Calemyr]

Does L - T mean "Liara - Tali?"

Yeah. Basically, someone who's been trained by life to be used to things ending suddenly and arbitrarily.

[Landis963]

I'm partial to Earthborn-War hero myself, but I can see the merits of Colonist Sole Survivor or Spacer-War Hero as well. In fact, the only origin piece I don't get is Butcher. Why exactly would you ever pick that?

[5ColouredWalker]

For Fanfiction!
Or to start with more renegade points.
Or because you think the nickname is awesome.
Or you find it fits best with your headcanon of spectres.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I'm partial to Earthborn-War hero myself, but I can see the merits of Colonist Sole Survivor or Spacer-War Hero as well. In fact, the only origin piece I don't get is Butcher. Why exactly would you ever pick that?

I found it the best fit for an anti-hero kind of character. Not a hero, nor defined by a tragic loss. And with the story becoming increasingly grim in ME3, that kind of mindset does seem appropriate. If you look at it in that way.

On a related note I wonder if they'll retain the background system in Andromeda. It changed some minor story elements, but I don't think the effects were that significant.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've always seen "Ruthless" as one that pairs well with Colonist in an "eye-for-an-eye" sort of way, whether playing a revenge-hungry Renegade or a repentant Paragon who's like "I lost my cool in that battle and made a big mistake." I personally avoid it, though, since one, I'm a diehard Paragon player and two, it doesn't tie in as strongly with batarian-related quests as War Hero does (in Bring Down The Sky they'll blame you for the Skylian Blitz's failure as a War Hero, but won't mention Torfan, for example).

[Psyren]

First off, I'm taking Calemyr's advice on having him bounce between Liara and Tali to add some flaws to him, and I'm wondering if there's a cutoff point where if I break up with Tali after it she won't pursue a relationship with Garrus and spend the rest of the game pining after Shepard instead. I want to avoid such a scenario if possible.

This is more or less impossible - if you commit to Tali then you're locked out of the others (there is no "break-up at any time" option like in ME2), if you commit to someone else you're locked out of Tali, and if you don't commit to anyone then you're treated as unromanced and Tali will hook up with Garrus regardless.


Secondly I'm not sure what background options to pick. My default's been Colonist/War Hero, because it ties in with some of the batarian quests better, but Sole Survivor might be more appropriate to the greater overarching narrative, as it pertains to Cerberus and provides a nice link between Shepard and Tali, and the thresher maws too.

Honestly, if verisimilitude/consistency truly matters so much to you I wouldn't do Sole Survivor at all - it's extremely difficult to justify Shepard partnering with Cerberus having lived through that, and they don't really do the conflict justice in ME2 or ME3. War Hero and Ruthless wouldn't have as strong opinions about them and an alliance there is easier to swallow.

[Morty]

My first Shepard, a male Renegade, was a Colonist/Sole Survivor. The other one, a female Paragon, was an Earth-born War Hero. And Psyren's right. Sole Survivor is pretty notorious for being swept under the rug when it comes to cooperating with Cerberus.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Honestly, if verisimilitude/consistency truly matters so much to you I wouldn't do Sole Survivor at all - it's extremely difficult to justify Shepard partnering with Cerberus having lived through that, and they don't really do the conflict justice in ME2 or ME3. War Hero and Ruthless wouldn't have as strong opinions about them and an alliance there is easier to swallow.

Yeah, I always found that strange. Shepard's cooperation itself wasn't the problem; the Council was in denial over the Reapers and Cerberus was getting things done. The problem is that the whole incident appeared to be simply forgotten. There was so much potential there story-wise but it was just...left hanging.

Shepard demanding answers from the Illusive Man. They provided a Normandy complete with crew for Shepard; I'm sure negotiating for some closure would be feasible. Maybe TIM could try to deny it, or even Miranda and Jacob could have something to say. Or even have Shepard go to the facility where the team responsible for that project worked. But I don't recall anything like that.

[Landis963]

Yeah, I always found that strange. Shepard's cooperation itself wasn't the problem; the Council was in denial over the Reapers and Cerberus was getting things done. The problem is that the whole incident appeared to be simply forgotten. There was so much potential there story-wise but it was just...left hanging.

It got an e-mail (from the other "sole survivor" of Akuze, lambasting you for flipping) and a throwaway line in LotSB (during Vasir's death scene). I think I speak for everyone here when I state that it didn't get enough.

[Psyren]

It got an e-mail (from the other "sole survivor" of Akuze, lambasting you for flipping) and a throwaway line in LotSB (during Vasir's death scene). I think I speak for everyone here when I state that it didn't get enough.

I really thought that e-mail would have amounted to more. They had it all set up like an ominous "you'd better watch your back for the rest of your life, traitor!" and then the guy, I dunno, got reaped off-screen or got bored and gave up or maybe he went to Sanctuary and got processed or maybe he even ended up as one of those godawful Cat6 guys or... something. Who knows, who cares, certainly not Bioware...

Which is another cool thing about DAI that I'm hoping makes it into ME4 - tying the MP kits to specific characters. It's a very lightweight way to insert lesser badasses into the game without having to write them into the main plot, fully voice them or give them a reason to run into the protagonist. Imagine Kal'Reegar as the Quarian Marksman Soldier, Aresh as the N7 Slayer or Shiala as the Asari Valkyrie for instance.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Sounds like a Colonist/War Hero should remain valid. I like the idea of Shepard taking some "fallen hero" lumps like the Hero of the Skyllian Blitz being "responsible" for the destruction of the Bahak system. :smallamused:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This is more or less impossible - if you commit to Tali then you're locked out of the others (there is no "break-up at any time" option like in ME2), if you commit to someone else you're locked out of Tali, and if you don't commit to anyone then you're treated as unromanced and Tali will hook up with Garrus regardless.
Forgot to ask about this earlier. Could you be a bit more specific please? What I'm trying to figure out is when you commit to someone, so that I can commit to Liara in 3 after romancing Tali in 2. Does this essentially mean that if I do that, Tali "forgets" we ever had a relationship? I'm trying to make the story flow well, but if something like that happens I worry it might ruin the WSOD.

[Calemyr]

Forgot to ask about this earlier. Could you be a bit more specific please? What I'm trying to figure out is when you commit to someone, so that I can commit to Liara in 3 after romancing Tali in 2. Does this essentially mean that if I do that, Tali "forgets" we ever had a relationship? I'm trying to make the story flow well, but if something like that happens I worry it might ruin the WSOD.

As I understand it: When you get out of the Citadel for the first time you can talk to Liara in her room. During the conversation she asks if you and she are still a thing. If you say yes, you're locked in with her and Tali will just gracefully congratulate you two. If you say you want to be friends, I think you're not locked out from Liara. Later you recruit Tali and Liara and Tali get competitive and they force you to make a choice.

[Lethologica]

What Psyren is saying is the cutoff point (where you should stop romancing Tali) is the beginning of ME3.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...no major drama, then?

[Lethologica]

So...no major drama, then?
Apparently you can have some drama if you don't lock in Liara early, per Calemyr. Just don't lock in Tali, whatever you do.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And how do I avoid that? That's the main thing I'm worried about.

[5ColouredWalker]

As I understand it: When you get out of the Citadel for the first time you can talk to Liara in her room. During the conversation she asks if you and she are still a thing. If you say yes, you're locked in with her and Tali will just gracefully congratulate you two. If you say you want to be friends, I think you're not locked out from Liara. Later you recruit Tali and Liara and Tali get competitive and they force you to make a choice.

:smallconfused:
I think you must have missed this.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm wondering after which mission these conversations happen. Kind of like how Ashley/Kaidan and Liara confront you after your second mission and make you choose in the first game. :smallconfused:

[5ColouredWalker]

When you get out of the Citadel for the first time

When do you first visit the Citadel after meeting Liara?

1. Start on Earth
2. Go to Mars, like you're forced to, picking up Liara.
3. Go to the Citadel... Like you're forced to.
4. Return to the Normandy, then visit her room and talk to her.


Based on the given instructions, that will trigger it.

[Psyren]

I think you might be forced to visit Liara after the Citadel before the Normandy can take off from there, not sure. It's where you get introduced to all the Shadow Broker computers she stuffed onto the Normandy.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay! Thanks for the advice, everyone! :smallsmile:

Now for a slightly less heavy question: I want my squadmates and my Shepard's outfits to match throughout the games. In ME1 this is easy, just buy the suits from the same brand for everybody. But once we start getting into the other two games, that becomes more difficult, especially in getting Shepard to match the squad. In ME2, it's relatively simple for the squadmates to mostly match, given most get some black and yellow in their alternate outfit, but three don't: Kasumi, Zaeed and Mordin, whose upgrades are red. Plus, the alternative armors, which I'm interested in using, don't really match either color scheme. In 3 it's even more difficult. Some are wearing blue, some are wearing red, some are wearing camo, and none necessarily sync up to the alternative armors.

What should I do?

[Psyren]

Buy all the appearance DLC and then, when you realize nothing matches quite the way you want it to no matter which combinations you try, hurl your gaming device across the room with a bestial howl.

Alternatively, mods.

Alternatively, just do your best and come to terms with any discrepancies :smalltongue:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Um...okay. I'm getting started with my first Renegade playthrough to build the character up and then take a break, prepping to come back for a Paragon master playthough.

Does the goatee look handsome in the later two games? If not I'm probably going with the stubble look. I dunno. The only thing I KNOW I want is green eyes to blend well with the Synthesis ending in the third game.

[Landis963]

Um...okay. I'm getting started with my first Renegade playthrough to build the character up and then take a break, prepping to come back for a Paragon master playthough.

Does the goatee look handsome in the later two games? If not I'm probably going with the stubble look. I dunno. The only thing I KNOW I want is green eyes to blend well with the Synthesis ending in the third game.

In my master playthrough I just went with the default, although I deliberately aimed for the Renegon glowing eyes in ME2. (failed miserably because they still didn't have a good grasp on what made a Renegade beyond "puppy-kicking douchecanoe," but still). Although I'd just go with the perma-stubble, because goatees always look slightly odd on people with cheekbones that can't slice paper or chins that can't poke holes in drywall to me.

[Leon]

By the end of ME2 my Renegade Shep was looking like a Series 800 Terminator

[Calemyr]

My preferred style is a wicked Paragon. That is to say, a Shep that always looks for the best solution, but has no patience for fools and will readily resort to sarcasm, sharp comments, intimidation, or even unnecessary violence when forced to deal with fools. Renegade is crap when it comes to world-shaking decisions, but absolute gold when it comes to dialog options.

As for costumes, you're going to need to stick to piecemeal armors in the later games to control Shep's color schemes. ME2 does have that very nice unified color scheme for their loyalty outfits, though as you say some of them don't match even then. A few of the mod armors work for that purpose, too, like Jack's and Tali's, I believe.

ME3 doesn't have the same feel to it, though. It's no longer "ragtag team reforged as a unified force", it's "the best and brightest saving the world... oh, and Vega, too, I suppose". Your party is no longer reliant on team-building gimmicks like matching uniforms at that point. They're no longer just a suicide squad, they're representatives of their respective races on an overt galaxy-saving mission. You can probably get away with a black and blue color scheme for most characters, especially given the DLC options, but by that point I think a little individuality is well earned.

[Psyren]

ME3 doesn't have the same feel to it, though. It's no longer "ragtag team reforged as a unified force", it's "the best and brightest saving the world... oh, and Vega, too, I suppose". Your party is no longer reliant on team-building gimmicks like matching uniforms at that point. They're no longer just a suicide squad, they're representatives of their respective races on an overt galaxy-saving mission. You can probably get away with a black and blue color scheme for most characters, especially given the DLC options, but by that point I think a little individuality is well earned.

This, minus the Vega-bashing, he's at least as good a soldier as Ashley and probably even Grunt. I don't like that I can't make a Shepard who is that muscular though, and the Translater Microbes stuttering over Spanish when they previously only had an issue with obscure Drell is more than a little jarring.

[Landis963]

This, minus the Vega-bashing, he's at least as good a soldier as Ashley and probably even Grunt. I don't like that I can't make a Shepard who is that muscular though, and the Translater Microbes stuttering over Spanish when they previously only had an issue with obscure Drell is more than a little jarring.

My guess is that it does the Google Translate thing of "guessing" what the person is speaking, and matching it to a list of user preferences. Peppering one's second language with mother tongue words for flavor and practice might slip by the translator, especially since "huevos rancheros" can be recognized as a specific dish apart from "Rancher's-style eggs." Also it might do the subtitle thing for cases of Poirot speak and we don't see that because 3rd person perspective.

In fact, particularly playful hackers might sell an unofficial patch to the translation software that classifies "politician" as a subdialect of the major Council Race languages.

[Calemyr]

This, minus the Vega-bashing, he's at least as good a soldier as Ashley and probably even Grunt. I don't like that I can't make a Shepard who is that muscular though, and the Translater Microbes stuttering over Spanish when they previously only had an issue with obscure Drell is more than a little jarring.

It was a joke, of course. Vega's cool. He is, however, the only one who isn't already an elite when he joins the ME3 crew. Even the survivor's been given Spectre status (second human Spectre) and promoted past Shep, while Vega's just a grunt who happened to be in the right place at the right time. He grows into the role, but he doesn't start there.

As for the translator issue, I figured it was tied to the intention of speaker. The drell have difficulty finding non-drell concepts to tie some of their words to, so they go untranslated, while Vega wants those words to be Spanish. If he didn't intend for it to be Spanish, it would be translated. (Think of it as an Ease-of-Use feature: You want the auto-translator to have an escape clause, or you'd be saying things like "The asari word for 'poetic justice' is 'poetic justice'.", rather than "The asari word for 'poetic justice' is 'Thessia'.")

[Psyren]

I'm actually fine with "huevos rancheros" since that is a specific dish. But even short and common terms like "abuela", "cien por ciento," and "loco" with no idiomatic meaning are capable of styming 22nd-23rd century technology apparently.

[Calemyr]

I'm actually fine with "huevos rancheros" since that is a specific dish. But even short and common terms like "abuela", "cien por ciento," and "loco" with no idiomatic meaning are capable of styming 22nd-23rd century technology apparently.

No, what I mean to suggest is that Vega isn't saying "grandmother" in Spanish, he's saying "grandmother in Spanish". He is intentionally keeping those words untranslated - likely because he feels they're important to his identity and heritage. It's just a matter of style.

For instance, while I'm not of Latino descent, I took enough Spanish classes in high school that I took to calling my folks "Madre" and "Padre". Two decades later, it still feels unnatural to refer to them as anything else (other than "Roja" and "Viejo" when I'm feeling jokingly irreverent), despite being very much an English speaker. The importance is not on the translation of the word, but the word itself, if you follow me.

[Psyren]

No, what I mean to suggest is that Vega isn't saying "grandmother" in Spanish, he's saying "grandmother in Spanish". He is intentionally keeping those words untranslated - likely because he feels they're important to his identity and heritage. It's just a matter of style.

For instance, while I'm not of Latino descent, I took enough Spanish classes in high school that I took to calling my folks "Madre" and "Padre". Two decades later, it still feels unnatural to refer to them as anything else (other than "Roja" and "Viejo" when I'm feeling jokingly irreverent), despite being very much an English speaker. The importance is not on the translation of the word, but the word itself, if you follow me.

No, I get that, but translator implants in my head shouldn't be able to read his intent like that, unless space magic. That's what I'm saying.

Also, obligatory:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA8gC_rUkAAHP53.jpg

[Landis963]

No, I get that, but translator implants in my head shouldn't be able to read his intent like that, unless space magic. That's what I'm saying.

Also, obligatory:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA8gC_rUkAAHP53.jpg

Are you saying that wifi is somehow space magic?

[Psyren]

Are you saying that wifi is somehow space magic?

If it can read minds? Yes, of course.

[Landis963]

If it can read minds? Yes, of course.

I'm saying that the two translators can talk to each other using the Normandy intranet. (You know, the one that EDI uses when she's not cosplaying as a squad member). Vega's translator could have generated a list of preferences based on his normal speech patterns, or even required mandatory setting specifications, and either of those could have been transmitted to Shepard's translator.

In addition, Earthborn and Spacer Shepard could easily have learned Spanish during their formative years (we don't know the cultural makeup of the Tenth Street Reds beyond "common thug," for instance, and Spacer Shep would have gotten a proper, if spotty, education). Colonist is a bit harder to justify (much more practical to learn an alien language on a colony such as Mindoir) but maybe there were some Spanish speakers and Shep picked up a few words before she got a translator. I'm weaving this headcanon from the fact that Shep doesn't see Vega's random Spanish words as something to comment on, unlike "siha."

[Calemyr]

We're talking about a universal translator. It needs to consider a lot more than simple literal translation to be functional. Tone and cadence may well be a factor, along with body language. We already know that the translator does not handle pheromones properly, forcing the Elcor to sound like self-narrating Eeyores. The very concept of a universal translator is fantasy of a level Tolkien would have dismissed in the first place, even if you were to limit it to just all Earth languages.

Also, possibly, the fact that everything Vega says may well be English except for the Spanish bits, and therefore they're left untranslated to keep the context correct.

[Landis963]

We're talking about a universal translator. It needs to consider a lot more than simple literal translation to be functional. Tone and cadence may well be a factor, along with body language. We already know that the translator does not handle pheromones properly, forcing the Elcor to sound like self-narrating Eeyores. The very concept of a universal translator is fantasy of a level Tolkien would have dismissed in the first place, even if you were to limit it to just all Earth languages.

Also, possibly, the fact that everything Vega says may well be English except for the Spanish bits, and therefore they're left untranslated to keep the context correct.

Or heck, they did some sort of "handshake" thing and figured out "Oh hey, User: Vega is from California, User:Shepard is from the Vancouseattle Metropolis, and both of them list Earth English as their primary language! We can take a break!" That would be a rather big thing to overlook, IMO.

[Psyren]

We're talking about a universal translator. It needs to consider a lot more than simple literal translation to be functional. Tone and cadence may well be a factor, along with body language. We already know that the translator does not handle pheromones properly, forcing the Elcor to sound like self-narrating Eeyores. The very concept of a universal translator is fantasy of a level Tolkien would have dismissed in the first place, even if you were to limit it to just all Earth languages.

Also, possibly, the fact that everything Vega says may well be English except for the Spanish bits, and therefore they're left untranslated to keep the context correct.

I'm not getting what your point is. I agree with all this, but none of it explains why such a translator hiccups over abuela or how it can tell if Vega magically thinks "don't translate this one word because I'm trying to sound all ethnic and cool."

Also, we know what language they're speaking - "Galactic." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSTEPjeUiNc#t=5m29s)

[5ColouredWalker]

In fact, particularly playful hackers might sell an unofficial patch to the translation software that classifies "politician" as a subdialect of the major Council Race languages.

Do they also sell a 'Lawyer' patch?

[Landis963]

Do they also sell a 'Lawyer' patch?

Yes, but for only 1 credit, and then only on April Fool's (or whatever the transgalactic equivalent is). It replaces everything your lawyer says with "Lieslieslieslieslieslieslies" etc., etc. and is more an easily detached virus than a "patch."

[Rodin]

There's also the Turian Councillor patch, which will randomly insert quotation mark pauses into the dialogue of whoever is speaking.

[Psyren]

There's also the Turian Councillor patch, which will randomly insert quotation mark pauses into the dialogue of whoever is speaking.

Dismissing claims since 2157 :smallcool:

[LibraryOgre]

I'm not getting what your point is. I agree with all this, but none of it explains why such a translator hiccups over abuela or how it can tell if Vega magically thinks "don't translate this one word because I'm trying to sound all ethnic and cool."

Or, as someone else said, Vega might have set his protocol to leave certain words untranslated. Or certain words are common enough in the Earth English of the 2100s that they are actual translations... he says mi abuela, and English has become Spanglish enough that "mi abuela" is just recognized as a synonym for "my grandmother", and isn't translated at all, any more than "grammy" or "oma" would be.

[Psyren]

Or, as someone else said, Vega might have set his protocol to leave certain words untranslated.

This is what I'm not understanding. The translator implant is in the listener's ear, not the speaker's - when Shepard is talking to Thane, she says "I think my translator just glitched." Vega would have no control over what words Shepard's device chooses to translate or not, nor would Shepard's translator be able to determine his context and choose which words to leave untranslated while he is speaking.



Or certain words are common enough in the Earth English of the 2100s that they are actual translations... he says mi abuela, and English has become Spanglish enough that "mi abuela" is just recognized as a synonym for "my grandmother", and isn't translated at all, any more than "grammy" or "oma" would be.

I'd buy this if other humans were throwing spanglish phrases around, but he's the first person in the series to do so. I get why Bioware did it, but in-universe it doesn't make much sense.

It's not like, say, Firefly, where people pepper their English speech with random Chinese words and phrases because that pastiche is what the most popular language has become. It's just Vega, and in a setting that explicitly still has a wide variety of separate languages as well as translator microbes, it's an oddity.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Maybe since both Shepard and Vega are Earth people the translator deactivates so that they can utilize the various Earth languages and dialects without having them forcefully translated.

[Landis963]

Maybe since both Shepard and Vega are Earth people the translator deactivates so that they can utilize the various Earth languages and dialects without having them forcefully translated.

Doesn't entirely work - there was a woman on Noveria speaking Japanese but translated into English without an accent. Compare with Samesh Bhatia who was clearly speaking English, but with his native Indian accent.

[LibraryOgre]

Doesn't entirely work - there was a woman on Noveria speaking Japanese but translated into English without an accent. Compare with Samesh Bhatia who was clearly speaking English, but with his native Indian accent.

Are we sure she was speaking Japanese, and not just had a Japanese name but grew up in the US? I had some stepcousins (before my aunt divorced their father) who spoke unaccented English, with very Japanese names.

[Landis963]

Are we sure she was speaking Japanese, and not just had a Japanese name but grew up in the US? I had some stepcousins (before my aunt divorced their father) who spoke unaccented English, with very Japanese names.

Unaccented English does not require the "-san" honorific, e.g. "Parasini-san" or "Benezia-sama."

[LibraryOgre]

Unaccented English does not require the "-san" honorific, e.g. "Parasini-san" or "Benezia-sama."

Ah, was thinking Feros and Zhu's Hope.

[Landis963]

Ah, was thinking Feros and Zhu's Hope.

Yeah, that's the actor's other character, Hana Murakami (She's the one manning the crane console when you arrive). I was thinking of ERCS security chief Maeko Matsuo, who greets you on Noveria.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Doesn't entirely work - there was a woman on Noveria speaking Japanese but translated into English without an accent. Compare with Samesh Bhatia who was clearly speaking English, but with his native Indian accent.

Was it confirmed that she was actually speaking Japanese?

There are two scenarios here.

1. She speaks Japanese, and the translator kicks in by translating it to English but neglects to omit the decidedly un-English Japanese suffixes.

2. She naturally speaks English with Japanese elements mixed in, maybe because English is a second language to her and the use of those suffixes in Japanese culture (based on what I know) have a lot to do with the person's status, and the translator is not actually working.

[Psyren]

Unaccented English does not require the "-san" honorific, e.g. "Parasini-san" or "Benezia-sama."

Those are just honorifics, which even english-speaking Japanese sometimes use. Those are also much more difficult to translate than standard words like "grandmother" and "crazy." For example, the honorific "-san" denotes someone who is roughly in the same social or professional standing as you, while "-sama" refers to someone significantly above you. In Feudalism, the latter would have translated to something like "lord" or "lady", but how would that translate to a modern corporation or military? Easiest for a translator program to leave them as-is, as that is the best way to convey their meaning.

Also, once again, the language they're speaking is apparently called "galactic."

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Those are just honorifics, which even english-speaking Japanese sometimes use. Those are also much more difficult to translate than standard words like "grandmother" and "crazy." For example, the honorific "-san" denotes someone who is roughly in the same social or professional standing as you, while "-sama" refers to someone significantly above you. In Feudalism, the latter would have translated to something like "lord" or "lady", but how would that translate to a modern corporation or military? Easiest for a translator program to leave them as-is, as that is the best way to convey their meaning.

Yeah I guess "-san" and "-sama" don't really translate directly. But like you said she could be speaking English with Japanese honorifics.


Also, once again, the language they're speaking is apparently called "galactic."

The only thing I found online was a codex update from Bring Down the Sky which mentions a "simplified artificial trade tongue".

I think it's possible that Shepard set the translator to not translate human languages, since people can and do mix their languages up and the choice to use those words can give some insights about the person's character. I'm just speculating here, but I think people might be able to tell a native speaker from someone depending on a translator. For inter-species relations and day-to-day galactic business it's probably not an issue, but among individuals of the same species? It could be a thing.

Otherwise the translators make it impossible to learn languages. Since everyone for all purposes and intents speaks [insert the language you understand here] when they try to tell you "X means Y" what you hear is "Y means Y". So I'm assuming that there are settings which can be modified. Or simply an on/off switch.

Also, I wonder how the translators deal with song lyrics. That could be amusing.

[Psyren]

The only thing I found online was a codex update from Bring Down the Sky which mentions a "simplified artificial trade tongue".

I linked the video where Shepard says it (rather sarcastically, but still) a few posts back.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I linked the video where Shepard says it (rather sarcastically, but still) a few posts back.

Roger, missed it the first time round.

On an unrelated note, I only just discovered N7HQ. Previously I was wondering how people got those "Biotic God" and "Collector General" tags.

*checks manifest*

Missing the N7 Shadow, Hurricane, Typhoon, Valkyrie, and Saber. I still have a lot of grinding to do, it seems. Not to mention getting all the weapons up to X. :smallsigh:

[Psyren]

Roger, missed it the first time round.

On an unrelated note, I only just discovered N7HQ. Previously I was wondering how people got those "Biotic God" and "Collector General" tags.

*checks manifest*

Missing the N7 Shadow, Hurricane, Typhoon, Valkyrie, and Saber. I still have a lot of grinding to do, it seems. Not to mention getting all the weapons up to X. :smallsigh:

Are you on PC or console? There are still groups that play, and possibly faster routes.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Are you on PC or console? There are still groups that play, and possibly faster routes.

I'm on PC, and I mostly just queue up for Silver games nowadays. Took me a while to get out of my Bronze phase, admittedly.

My left mouse button is somehow unresponsive in ME3, so I had to rebind the keys. This made it difficult for me to use guns for a while (especially snipers) until I recently found a more comfortable binding. Talon Mercenary's still a pain though, because he resets keybinds to default.

[Keld Denar]

So, I bought these games a while back on a Steam sale, having never played them but being fond of other Bioware games.

I just finished my first real mission to save Liara, and I've been running Paragon with an interest in wooing Ashley back to my berth for a little "tactical movement training". I think I might have really screwed it up, though. I was being all Mr Sensitive and listening to Ashley talk about something or another that I wasn't really paying much attention to, and she started getting a little xenophobic on me. Being a general non-bigotted person, I snapped at her and basically ordered her to stop being dumb (left middle conversation option). She snapped to attention and saluted me and then stopped talking to me about anything. I just flew no Novaria and am working on the mission there, but I'm considering going back to a previous save before getting too much further.

Did I screw up my chances with her?

[Lethologica]

Probably not. Try talking again after Noveria. In order to quit the romance you pretty much have to choose the Renegade option when romance is brought up--for Ash, "You still interested in me?" will be the cue.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Anyone playing on PC/Origin having trouble getting the game to run? Tried to launch ME3 and the thing simply didn't start.

[Psyren]

Did you update to Windows 10? There's been some graphics card issues since then and your drivers may need an update.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

No, I haven't updated Windows to 10. I just closed everything, restarted my computer, and then managed to actually get into the game.

Then the game crashed three times at the menu before I finally could get into Multiplayer (I clicked "multiplayer", the normal loading screen comes on, and then I get the error pop up which says windows is looking for a solution). Strange business.

But I managed to at least get a couple of matches in before the game crashed again. :smallsigh:

Now listening to some music. :smallcool:

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Has there been any explanation why the Andromeda protagonist has to be a human?

I never played any Dragon Age, but I hear that it has multiple choices when it comes to protagonist species. Oblivion and Skyrim did as well (watched my friends play).

So why does Mass Effect continue to neglect this option? The original trilogy gets a pass because of age (and plot limitations perhaps), but I think now would be a great opportunity to have multiple choices in species and all the story (as well as mechanical) potential that implies. They did say that the Shepard story was over, so this was the perfect chance.

Those of us who played ME3 multiplayer got to experience gameplay from the perspective of all the major species. Being able to do that in a single player campaign would be cool I think. Maybe not all the species in the multiplayer, but two or three?

[Psyren]

Story-wise, we won't know until we know more about the plot.

IRL, the obvious and somewhat cynical answer is that they thought the returns on making multiple races playable would not justify the cost to do so. (This includes the costs of making a race-agnostic narrative, the costs of animating every cutscene to work regardless of race, and the costs of applying the various alien voice effects to your protagonist's lines without distortion as well.)

[thereaper]

Has anyone ever tried the immortal Sentinel (the one that is immune to damage while in cover) in ME3? How does it stack up to the Vanguard and Infiltrator? I was thinking about trying an insanity playthrough with the most overpowered, impossible-to-kill thing I could find, but I'm not sure which class that is.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Sorry, my Sentinel Shepard is still half way through ME2. And will probably stay there until I get really bored.

Somewhat ironically, that Shepard was the one I used to beat ME1 on Insanity.

Tangent: I hope Andromeda does away with powers that clutter your vision. When I activate a buff, I shouldn't get the impression of driving a car after a flock of pigeons did their business on the windshield. Adrenaline Rush, Hunter Mode, Devastator Mode are all guilty of this to varying degrees. I personally find Hunter Mode to be the worst, though I can't describe why.

[Inarius]

Has anyone ever tried the immortal Sentinel (the one that is immune to damage while in cover) in ME3? How does it stack up to the Vanguard and Infiltrator? I was thinking about trying an insanity playthrough with the most overpowered, impossible-to-kill thing I could find, but I'm not sure which class that is.

I have and to be honest its pretty boring to play. As far as survivabilty its pretty much the toughest of the bunch with the least amount of effort. The downside is your attack abilities are going to be so stunted you're better off without them and just grabbing something like Marksman as your bonus power and picking the heaviest meanest weapon you can find.

Vanguard on the other hand is really really squishy to start and is really easy to get in over your head if you charge the wrong target later on. That being said the vanguard was a heck of a lot more fun for me to play on insanity that the tanky sentinel was for me.

Infiltrator is somewhere in between these two, cloak isn't foolproof like it was in ME2. If you cloak enemies will still shoot in your general direction and wont be thrown off completely by it like they were in ME2. The damage and the distance you can do it from gives a bit of an extra safety net though so its not nearly as prone to death when you make a mistake like the vanguard is.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I haven't touched the SP campaign in some time, but in multiplayer at least the tactical cloak works best if they don't see you using it. So let your squad draw their attention and/or duck behind a wall, and then cloak. If you Invisible Man/Woman right in front of their eyes they'll just blind fire where they last saw you.

[Psyren]

I have and to be honest its pretty boring to play. As far as survivabilty its pretty much the toughest of the bunch with the least amount of effort. The downside is your attack abilities are going to be so stunted you're better off without them and just grabbing something like Marksman as your bonus power and picking the heaviest meanest weapon you can find.

Assuming we're talking about the same build - the whole point of it is not to be using abilities to attack though, it's to be using a BFG. Once you have both shield powers up, you'll be eating a lot of mandatory slowdown anyway so there's no point in being a caster. Instead, you pile on the nastiest, heaviest guns you can and hang out of cover perforating everything. A Particle Rifle V/X for instance is available right near the start of the game (when you get Javik) and gets quite nasty the longer you hang out of cover holding down the trigger, especially if you have incendiary ammo from Vega. Or get a Harrier/Crusader combo.

[Inarius]

Assuming we're talking about the same build - the whole point of it is not to be using abilities to attack though, it's to be using a BFG. Once you have both shield powers up, you'll be eating a lot of mandatory slowdown anyway so there's no point in being a caster. Instead, you pile on the nastiest, heaviest guns you can and hang out of cover perforating everything. A Particle Rifle V/X for instance is available right near the start of the game (when you get Javik) and gets quite nasty the longer you hang out of cover holding down the trigger, especially if you have incendiary ammo from Vega. Or get a Harrier/Crusader combo.

Thats pretty much the build I'm talking about, Tech armor and Fortification specced for damage reduction. Gets you like 90% damage reduction and you just mow things down like Rambo. Its probably the closest you can get to the ME1 soldier style of gameplay. For me though its a bit boring and one dimensional compared to Vanguards, Adepts, and Engineers which are my 3 favorite classes in ME2 and 3 to play.

[Psyren]

Right, that's the one - but that build's bonus power is used on your second armor. so you can't take Marksman too.

As far as your offensive powers being stunted though - remember that your Lift Grenades still do a ton of damage, have no cooldown, and can even detonate Warp combos on heavier targets. In addition, Throw and Overload still have respectable cooldowns even with both armors up, as does Cryo Blast. My preferred build is to max everything but Cryo and go with Defense Matrix over Fortification, as you can pop it in an emergency to instantly refill your shields.

[Dienekes]

Has anyone ever tried the immortal Sentinel (the one that is immune to damage while in cover) in ME3? How does it stack up to the Vanguard and Infiltrator? I was thinking about trying an insanity playthrough with the most overpowered, impossible-to-kill thing I could find, but I'm not sure which class that is.

Yeah, it's kind of like a high level Soldier in ME1, it makes the game insanely easy and kind of boring to the point I just stopped mid campaign.

Definitely tougher than Vanguard and Infiltrator, though. If you want survivability I can't think of anything that will beat it.

[Inarius]

Right, that's the one - but that build's bonus power is used on your second armor. so you can't take Marksman too.


Yeah I've got no idea why my brain thought that, still though 2 bonus powers would be kinda neat for Andromeda :smallbiggrin:

[5ColouredWalker]

That's whay mods are for.


It'd be interesting to have unlimited power choices or user created classes. Given that you have a limited amount of points, while you can synergise to maximise power to do so you'd become one dimensional very quickly.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

It'd be funny to see someone with Tactical Cloak and Biotic Charge.

[5ColouredWalker]

I wouldn't mix those two, but I do like biotic infiltrators, they're my base Shepard. [A skilled soldier, and ok tech, and a weak biotic. Hand her a sniper, and her scope is a field of death. Hand her an assault riffle, and may god have mercy on anything in front of her.]

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I wouldn't mix those two, but I do like biotic infiltrators, they're my base Shepard. [A skilled soldier, and ok tech, and a weak biotic. Hand her a sniper, and her scope is a field of death. Hand her an assault riffle, and may god have mercy on anything in front of her.]

Oh? How did you get that combination.

[Calemyr]

Oh? How did you get that combination.

Usually it's just put a powerful biotic ability in your bonus slot (Lash and Nova from the Omega DLC are personal favorites), to get an omni-disciplinary Shep.

[Psyren]

See, I hate doing that unless I'm playing a biotic class. The furthest I'll go bonus power-wise on a non-biotic is Warp Ammo (this was the choice for my Infiltrator), and even then I just say that I have a stockpile of modded ammo given to me by one of the biotics on the crew. Per Jack, this is a thing that actually happens.

[tonberrian]

I just glued Jack/Liara to my hip, rotating out other party members as necessary. Tali (or EDI in 3) made for a good combo with Vanguard Shep.

My bonus power of choice was something tech-y, usually Energy Drain. Charge, Nova, and then Energy Drain (with all the power cooldowns up) is pretty fun.

[Calemyr]

See, I hate doing that unless I'm playing a biotic class. The furthest I'll go bonus power-wise on a non-biotic is Warp Ammo (this was the choice for my Infiltrator), and even then I just say that I have a stockpile of modded ammo given to me by one of the biotics on the crew. Per Jack, this is a thing that actually happens.

I can respect that. I just see Shepard as a particularly well-rounded character, with talents touching all three areas of expertise, though not all of them equally. I've got a mod in my ME3 right now that imported several of the MP powers to SP as bonus powers. Playing an infiltrator with Biotic Slash (and a N7 re-retexture of the Slayer armor from Citadel) is something beautiful. This is how a space ninja rolls, Leng. You may want to take notes.

[Psyren]

(and a N7 re-retexture of the Slayer armor from Citadel)

Why in the name of the Enkindlers did I not think of this???

[LibraryOgre]

I can respect that. I just see Shepard as a particularly well-rounded character, with talents touching all three areas of expertise, though not all of them equally. I've got a mod in my ME3 right now that imported several of the MP powers to SP as bonus powers. Playing an infiltrator with Biotic Slash (and a N7 re-retexture of the Slayer armor from Citadel) is something beautiful. This is how a space ninja rolls, Leng. You may want to take notes.

My WinShep was an infiltrator... but I gave her biotics in ME2, figuring that part of the "drifting in space" thing could have easily been eezo infection.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Do lift grenades even lift? Or do they just kill anything that could theoretically have been lifted and damage everything else. Because I'm wondering if duration at rank 5 and slam at rank 6 are just trap options.

Has anyone ever seen lift grenades actually lift an enemy. And even if they did, in what situation would slam be better than a 30% radius and damage buff? I'm speaking from my own limited experience though. Things may be different in Gold and Platinum, or in Single Player.

Recently tried to finish the 200 waves for my Asari Vanguard, hence the question.

[5ColouredWalker]

... Do you not know how biotics works? That'd just cause radiation poisoning. You need to have Eezo in your system as a featus when human to develop biotics.
I however think of it as being naturally biotic, or possibly being added surgically by Cerberus.

As for assualt riffles in ME 1, high accuracy ones can make up for not being proficient... Truth be told I just play a biotic in 1 though.

[LibraryOgre]

... Do you not know how biotics works? That'd just cause radiation poisoning. You need to have Eezo in your system as a featus when human to develop biotics.
I however think of it as being naturally biotic, or possibly being added surgically by Cerberus.

That's more or less exactly how biotics works. While exposure to dust-form eezo in utero is the usual way of doing it, there's no indication that such exposure afterwards will result in radiation poisoning... tumors or other anomalies, sure, but not necessarily radiation poisoning. Given the unprecedented amount of attention you were getting in the Cerberus hospital, I'd think they can overcome that... and the explosion of the Normandy would leave plenty of dust-form Eezo around.

[Inarius]

... Do you not know how biotics works? That'd just cause radiation poisoning. You need to have Eezo in your system as a featus when human to develop biotics.
I however think of it as being naturally biotic, or possibly being added surgically by Cerberus.

As for assualt riffles in ME 1, high accuracy ones can make up for not being proficient... Truth be told I just play a biotic in 1 though.

Theres a rare type of biotic that is exposed to it while in vitro, develops no Biotic talents but upon a secondary exposure can develop those talents later one in life. Shepard whether or not you choose to be Biotic was indeed exposed to Eezo before they were born, this is established in the timeline if I remember right.

[5ColouredWalker]

Theres a rare type of biotic that is exposed to it while in vitro, develops no Biotic talents but upon a secondary exposure can develop those talents later one in life. Shepard whether or not you choose to be Biotic was indeed exposed to Eezo before they were born, this is established in the timeline if I remember right.

I didn't know that, and yes she was [To explain how she can be a biotic if you so chose.].

[Psyren]

Do lift grenades even lift? Or do they just kill anything that could theoretically have been lifted and damage everything else. Because I'm wondering if duration at rank 5 and slam at rank 6 are just trap options.

They lift unshielded/unarmored enemies but the vast majority of those will die before the lift effect matters anyway, even on Insanity/Platinum. Personally I would agree that Slam and Duration are trap options.



Has anyone ever seen lift grenades actually lift an enemy. And even if they did, in what situation would slam be better than a 30% radius and damage buff? I'm speaking from my own limited experience though. Things may be different in Gold and Platinum, or in Single Player.

Recently tried to finish the 200 waves for my Asari Vanguard, hence the question.

Lift an enemy? Not really - most things hit by them die before the lift effect or slam effects matter, or their shields/armor negated the lift effect in the first place (see above.).

I've seen plenty of corpses go drifting off, but while this looks amusing, obviously it's irrelevant at that point.

[thereaper]

I can respect that. I just see Shepard as a particularly well-rounded character, with talents touching all three areas of expertise, though not all of them equally. I've got a mod in my ME3 right now that imported several of the MP powers to SP as bonus powers. Playing an infiltrator with Biotic Slash (and a N7 re-retexture of the Slayer armor from Citadel) is something beautiful. This is how a space ninja rolls, Leng. You may want to take notes.

I agree. My very first character in ME1 was Test Shepard, who was deaf and had a mental disorder which caused him to walk around doing nothing but spamming Overload on recharge at random objects.

After 75 Overloads, I wisely chose to retcon him away and make John Shepard, a Vanguard who could actually hear what was being said in cutscenes and happened to have Electronics as a bonus talent. In later games he always insisted on learning Energy Drain as a bonus power.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Decided to try some gold games, and it wasn't as bad as I had thought. I haven't been kicked yet, at least.

Running the geth trooper, and I'm looking for opinions. What weapon(s) would you take with the GT and what would you take for rank 6 of flamer. Armor damage or shield/barrier damage. I normally default to armor damage out of habit, and I started with the geth pulse rifle (because geth, lol). However the geth pulse rifle, even at level IX, is pretty weak in my experience.

I was thinking either the Reegar, which I have at X, or the Acolyte, which I have at V. But other suggestions are welcome.

[Dhavaer]

Decided to try some gold games, and it wasn't as bad as I had thought. I haven't been kicked yet, at least.

Running the geth trooper, and I'm looking for opinions. What weapon(s) would you take with the GT and what would you take for rank 6 of flamer. Armor damage or shield/barrier damage. I normally default to armor damage out of habit, and I started with the geth pulse rifle (because geth, lol). However the geth pulse rifle, even at level IX, is pretty weak in my experience.

I was thinking either the Reegar, which I have at X, or the Acolyte, which I have at V. But other suggestions are welcome.

The acolyte, and take armour damage. Slap warp or incendiary ammo and a shield booster on and you should be able to solo Gold/Reapers/Giant pretty easily.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Something amusing happened on my most recent Gold run.

Immediately after deployment on Firebase White my three teammates ran down the stairs and into the lower room. Surprised, I followed them, and found two geth and a drell crouching behind the counter.

It took me a while to realize that they were in fact planning to make that place a defensive position, and since I am loathe to stray too far away from my team I ended up hiding behind the counter at some points of the match as well.

I am actually surprised by how well it worked. It was a Gold match against Geth and they (we) held that counter against waves of pyros, primes, and bombers. Based on the powers I saw it was a geth trooper (flamer), geth infiltrator (cloak), drell assassin (recon mine), and me (another geth trooper). Double-flamer was pretty fun.

It worked so well that the group leader thought it would work on Platinum. We tried it, switching the drell and the infiltrator for a geth engineer and a volus adept. Even with all the healing we got wiped on wave 8. Doesn't help that Platinum has random enemies from other factions show up.

[Landis963]

Something amusing happened on my most recent Gold run.

Immediately after deployment on Firebase White my three teammates ran down the stairs and into the lower room. Surprised, I followed them, and found two geth and a drell crouching behind the counter.

It took me a while to realize that they were in fact planning to make that place a defensive position, and since I am loathe to stray too far away from my team I ended up hiding behind the counter at some points of the match as well.

I am actually surprised by how well it worked. It was a Gold match against Geth and they (we) held that counter against waves of pyros, primes, and bombers. Based on the powers I saw it was a geth trooper (flamer), geth infiltrator (cloak), drell assassin (recon mine), and me (another geth trooper). Double-flamer was pretty fun.

It worked so well that the group leader thought it would work on Platinum. We tried it, switching the drell and the infiltrator for a geth engineer and a volus adept. Even with all the healing we got wiped on wave 8. Doesn't help that Platinum has random enemies from other factions show up.

Ah yes, White/Geth/Gold. I recall it fondly from my days of cred-farming. Even after that half of the map was reworked hunkering down like that is still the easiest way to farm it. Even with those stupid Geth Bombers.

[Psyren]

Easiest way to farm creds is Geth/Rio/Platinum in the shipping container, provided you have a tank with you. (Geth Juggernaut is best, or an Asari Justicar or Valkyrie, or better yet the first two.) Have an infiltrator with you in case of a disable quest and rake in the dough.

[Landis963]

Easiest way to farm creds is Geth/Rio/Platinum in the shipping container, provided you have a tank with you. (Geth Juggernaut is best, or an Asari Justicar or Valkyrie, or better yet the first two.) Have an infiltrator with you in case of a disable quest and rake in the dough.

Well, now it is. But in the days between the rework of White and the release of the Earth pack, accept no substitutes. Even after Platinum came out, IIRC.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Can someone tell me the weak spots for the Atlas? I looked around and I get conflicting information. Some say the canopy, others the fans on the back, and even the crotch (there's a plate there that comes off if you damage it enough). Which of these is right?

[5ColouredWalker]

To my knowledge, the back, you want to shoot it's cylander. The Canopy used to be one, and still is in single player, but no additional damage anymore I believe.

[Psyren]

Well, now it is. But in the days between the rework of White and the release of the Earth pack, accept no substitutes. Even after Platinum came out, IIRC.

Earth Pack was a huge change to MP, yeah.

I did find it hilarious though when White got changed and everyone ran to the farming spot, only to have a bajillion grenades fall on them and everyone began panicking :smallbiggrin:

[NEO|Phyte]

Can someone tell me the weak spots for the Atlas? I looked around and I get conflicting information. Some say the canopy, others the fans on the back, and even the crotch (there's a plate there that comes off if you damage it enough). Which of these is right?

I don't recall offhand if they add extra damage or stagger it or what, but there's plates on the knees, shoulders, and crotch that can be shot off from the front.

[Landis963]

Earth Pack was a huge change to MP, yeah.

I did find it hilarious though when White got changed and everyone ran to the farming spot, only to have a bajillion grenades fall on them and everyone began panicking :smallbiggrin:

*cringes, squeezes legs together* :smalleek: Oooh, Bombers...

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Had a four juggernaut game one time. It was Silver, so probably overkill. Even though I died in the first wave because my heavy melee suddenly decided not to work. :smallsigh: On the positive side I've finally locked down my juggernaut build.

When playing a juggernaut the mindset is really different. When I hear the Banshee scream, I immediately start looking for it. If I'm not playing a juggernaut, it's to keep my distance for fear of sudden hand-through-heart syndrome. If I am a juggernaut that game, it's because I want to run at it. If my team kills the sync-killer before I get there I'm disappointed, as opposed to relieved, which would normally be the case.

[Keld Denar]

Another dumb question...

I have ME1 for steam, and I can't find where my achievements are. They aren't in the steam UI, and I can't find them anywhere in game either. I just want to know when I've hit 75 spells/150 gun kills in case I want to restart the game with another toon.

Anyone?

[Inarius]

Another dumb question...

I have ME1 for steam, and I can't find where my achievements are. They aren't in the steam UI, and I can't find them anywhere in game either. I just want to know when I've hit 75 spells/150 gun kills in case I want to restart the game with another toon.

Anyone?

Theyre buried somewhere in the start menu if i remember right. Load up the game and I think if you go into the options you can find them there.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Theyre buried somewhere in the start menu if i remember right. Load up the game and I think if you go into the options you can find them there.

I believe this is the case as well. I vaguely remember feeling irritated that I had to switch in and out to find those achievements.

[Keld Denar]

Found it! I have Sniper Rifle and Electronics mastery! I should have Sabotage and Damping soon, and maybe Pistols.

[Inarius]

So I got to thinking earlier today and I wonder how Andromeda is going to handle heat sinks in the game. I really can't see the natives using heatsinks that are compatible with our weapons. Of course that's if they even use mass effect technology and not some other form since they wouldn't of had the Reapers manipulating their technological growth down that specific path.

TBH I kinda always thought the switch to ammo should've just been a retcon because the in game explanation only partially works. Sure you'd want to switch to heatsink guns because they fire faster and hit harder, but you'd also want to have your troops have an older style gun as a backup weapon at the least. Frontier worlds would also probably favor the older style weapons as well so they wouldn't have to rely on incoming resources for their ammo. It basically neglects the whole logistics side of the equation.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

They could go for multiple ammo types. Heat sinks for our guns, and a different type of ammo for local guns. There's precedent for that with ME2's heavy weapon ammo, which was tracked separately from the otherwise universal thermal clips.

It would set up logistical questions. Do you want to use a gun you're familiar with and probably have easy access to mods for, or an alien gun which probably has more ammo lying around the battlefield? Or a recharging gun which is heavier than a thermal clip gun, and has a slower overall firing rate?

Having thermal clip guns, local guns, and recharging guns as options would be cool. ME3 did bring recharging guns back, and they performed reasonably well as far as I can recall.

[5ColouredWalker]

Native/Self Cooling. Duh.

I mean, who likes running out of ammo? Yes, I could just play an Adept or Engineer, but I like shooting things.

[Psyren]

So I got to thinking earlier today and I wonder how Andromeda is going to handle heat sinks in the game. I really can't see the natives using heatsinks that are compatible with our weapons.

Omnitools are capable of mini-facturing in the field so this can be easily handwaved. Whatever the bad guys drop can become "ammo" with just a little engineering and/or chemistry.



Of course that's if they even use mass effect technology and not some other form since they wouldn't of had the Reapers manipulating their technological growth down that specific path.

Well that's the million-credit question, isn't it? After all, the only race we've known of who has ever left our own galaxy are in fact the Reapers. While making them the Big Bad of this title would be a bit of a stretch, it's possible for them to have some extra-galactic influence.



TBH I kinda always thought the switch to ammo should've just been a retcon because the in game explanation only partially works. Sure you'd want to switch to heatsink guns because they fire faster and hit harder, but you'd also want to have your troops have an older style gun as a backup weapon at the least. Frontier worlds would also probably favor the older style weapons as well so they wouldn't have to rely on incoming resources for their ammo. It basically neglects the whole logistics side of the equation.

The Particle Rifle and Collector Rifle show that they can make recharging guns if they want to (both in-universe and metagame-wise.) So I expect there to be a couple of guns like that in the new one too. But they'll likely be the exception rather than the rule.

[Calemyr]

They could go for multiple ammo types. Heat sinks for our guns, and a different type of ammo for local guns. There's precedent for that with ME2's heavy weapon ammo, which was tracked separately from the otherwise universal thermal clips.

It would set up logistical questions. Do you want to use a gun you're familiar with and probably have easy access to mods for, or an alien gun which probably has more ammo lying around the battlefield? Or a recharging gun which is heavier than a thermal clip gun, and has a slower overall firing rate?

Having thermal clip guns, local guns, and recharging guns as options would be cool. ME3 did bring recharging guns back, and they performed reasonably well as far as I can recall.

The sensible answer is a hybrid mode: Waiting allows you to recover your current clip, meaning that you never run out of ammo, but you can always reload to stay in the fray longer. If you have the spare ammo, at least. The trade off between reloading and waiting for the gun to cool would be pretty balanced as long as you don't have ME1 level cooldown modifiers allowing for unlimited ammunition.

And it makes sense, honestly. The in-game reason for the style switch was the crippling effect cooldown has when fighting horde mode creatures like geth and husks, a fact I have no doubt was driven home by Saren's attack on the Citadel, and there was a two year gap between games where the transition was being made. Of course, the clip system is crippled by the need for supply chains to keep guns firing now, though of course supply chains were already a factor as people need to eat as well. In any event, it was only six months between ME2 and ME3, not enough time for the backlash to create demand for a hybrid, and once the war was on there were higher priorities for their time. Now our survivors have more time than they know what to do with. Finding a happy medium between resource efficiency and fire rate would be a reasonable way to spend it for some folks.

[LibraryOgre]

When I wrote my SW Mass Effect conversion (rpgcrank.blogspot.com/p/savage-worlds-mass-effect.html), I had the changeover take place between ME1 and 2 (as it did in the games), but with the old-style regenerating heat sinks being more popular in civilian markets... partially because they were cheaper (no need to buy ammo), but also because civilians were less likely to get into prolonged firefights and need to be able to switch.

As for Reaper influence in Andromeda... I'll just point out that it was a long time between cleansing cycles, and Andromeda isn't THAT far away by Mass Effect Drive (especially if you assume the Reapers tended to keep some of the better technology for themselves).

[Inarius]

The sensible answer is a hybrid mode: Waiting allows you to recover your current clip, meaning that you never run out of ammo, but you can always reload to stay in the fray longer. If you have the spare ammo, at least. The trade off between reloading and waiting for the gun to cool would be pretty balanced as long as you don't have ME1 level cooldown modifiers allowing for unlimited ammunition.


From what Shepard tells Conrad the reason Hybrid models don't work is because there isn't enough room in a gun to fit both systems in. Now depending on how long after the original trilogy this is miniaturization from increased tech levels might allow for it. As far as actual bullets go, those shouldn't be an issue because the "ammo" is just a block of metal the gun shaves small pieces off of to fire so one block should last for a while.

[LooseCannoneer]

I hope they either:
1) Let us somehow import saves across platforms.
2) Let us last-gen people play Andromeda.

I want to play it, I just don't want to rebuy the trilogy for another system to get the save I want.

[Inarius]

I hope they either:
1) Let us somehow import saves across platforms.
2) Let us last-gen people play Andromeda.

I want to play it, I just don't want to rebuy the trilogy for another system to get the save I want.

If they do allow us to import saves to Andromeda they probably will use something like they did with Dragon Age Keep due to a new console generation.

[Psyren]

I hope they either:
1) Let us somehow import saves across platforms.
2) Let us last-gen people play Andromeda.

I want to play it, I just don't want to rebuy the trilogy for another system to get the save I want.

They've already confirmed it will only be available for current-gen.

For save-importing, the most likely scenario is that they'll use on online "pick-your-choices" utility similar to Dragon Age Keep - they'll probably add it to N7HQ.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Replaying ME1 yet again, and I just discovered that you can recruit Garrus without meeting Harkin. When I passed by him later in Chora's Den I was like, ha, now I don't need to talk to this creep.

BTW, opinions. Who'd you pick for a FemShep romance if Kaidan and Garrus were off the list. My most recent Shepard is a female and I'm going for a romance I haven't done yet.

[Lord Ruby34]

Liara
Thane
Traynor






Jacob


In that order.

Assuming that you haven't done the Liara romance already I feel like it works the best, actually having content in all three games, as opposed to the others which have significantly less. The Thane romance is really sad, which I find works well. Traynor is also pretty cool, but suffers from only appearing in Mass Effect 3. Don't bother with Captain Bland.

[Zevox]

Don't bother with Captain Bland.
But he said he already did Kaiden. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, the only FemShep romances I'd bother with are Liara and Traynor anyway. I did Kaiden's once - it was boring. I started Garrus' once, and found it too painfully awkward to continue. And with the other two being the dying widower with a son and another bland guy (who you can't even continue to romance in ME3 since he'll always leave you), I'm not seeing much reason not to stick with the girls.

[JohnTheSavage]

I started Garrus' once, and found it too painfully awkward to continue.

But the awkwardness is the best part!

[Comrade]

BTW, opinions. Who'd you pick for a FemShep romance if Kaidan and Garrus were off the list. My most recent Shepard is a female and I'm going for a romance I haven't done yet.

Liara. I actually played through the first two games without a romance option because I didn't really like Liara and Tali ain't into ladies, evidently, but decided to just give in and try that route since Liara's really the only actual lesbian romance option (Traynor's only in one game, Chambers just isn't interesting... Were there even any others?). And somehow through that playthrough Liara managed to rocket up from one of the characters I didn't really care for to one of my favourites. The Liara-Shepard romance path had some pretty cringe-worthy moments, but it was pretty sweet overall.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I didn't even know Traynor was an option. You don't need Citadel DLC for that?

[Comrade]

You don't need it for Traynor's romance, although having that DLC does kind of expand a bit on an already very limited romance path (or so it seems to me).

[Psyren]

BTW, opinions. Who'd you pick for a FemShep romance if Kaidan and Garrus were off the list. My most recent Shepard is a female and I'm going for a romance I haven't done yet.

Assuming you mean dudes only, definitely Thane, and then go with Synthesis at the end.


But the awkwardness is the best part!

This.


You don't need it for Traynor's romance, although having that DLC does kind of expand a bit on an already very limited romance path (or so it seems to me).

Correct, you can romance Traynor without DLC, but Citadel greatly expands the romance content (you get two dates with her.)

[Keld Denar]

So, just finished my first ever playthrough with a male paragon infiltrator. Must have screwed up the Ashley romance for calling her a bigot, though.

Question is, should I continue on to ME2, replay on a harder mode to unlock more stuff and try again to get into Ashley's...armor, or should I reroll an adept renegade femshep?

Edit: and if I do an adept, what talent should I add to get? I unlocked all of the guns, as well as electronics, damping, and decryption.

[Calemyr]

So, just finished my first ever playthrough with a male paragon infiltrator. Must have screwed up the Ashley romance for calling her a bigot, though.

Question is, should I continue on to ME2, replay on a harder mode to unlock more stuff and try again to get into Ashley's...armor, or should I reroll an adept renegade femshep?

Did you enjoy playing an infiltrator?

[Keld Denar]

Yea, it was fun. Sniper rifle is insane for most minions, and pistol + marksman is decent for bosses or melee guys. Having electronics and decryption on my main dude was also nice, because I could bring Wrex and Ash to really destroy things with assault rifles.

If I do a new adept char, I'll probably bring Garrus and someone other than Ash/Wrex, just to get the Ally achievements.

[Inarius]

If you do redo the game as an adept I'd recommend taking up assault rifles as your weapon. You basically want 2 weapon choices just for the few times you get sabotaged and Assault Rifles are probably the most balanced weapon in the game. One of the most interesting playthroughs I had was with an Adept plus Liara and Kaidan. 3 Lifts, 2 Singularities, 3 throws, 3 warps. Basically I was able to have multiple crowd control abilities for every fight plus multiple warps help when you're facing down several Krogan who manage to fire off immunity before you can crowd control them.

[Rodin]

But the awkwardness is the best part!

I'm rather sad that Garrus is the best FemShep romance simply because he's also the one person who I think works better without a romance. He and Tali get to pair up if you don't romance him and he works much better as an "old war buddy". In particular there's a scene right before the final mission where he and Shepard bump heads and you can just feel the "if this war wasn't on things mighta been different" vibes coming off them.

When it comes to Andromeda, I think my canon MaleShep will have been with Tali (you snooze you lose, Garrus) and FemShep with Traynor, with the 'super-canon' being a FemShep.

Anyone else planning on having imperfect saves going into Andromeda? I'm not talking about FailSheps here, hilarious though they may be. I'm talking about sub-par decisions that make for a better story.

For instance, my canon Shep will have been convinced by Mordin's impassioned speech on Tuchanka to destroy Maelon's research, but then convinced by Wrex/Eve/Mordin to release the cure in Mass Effect 3. That particular run also resulted in the Quarians getting wiped out, which I probably won't keep.

[Landis963]

Anyone else planning on having imperfect saves going into Andromeda? I'm not talking about FailSheps here, hilarious though they may be. I'm talking about sub-par decisions that make for a better story.

For instance, my canon Shep will have been convinced by Mordin's impassioned speech on Tuchanka to destroy Maelon's research, but then convinced by Wrex/Eve/Mordin to release the cure in Mass Effect 3. That particular run also resulted in the Quarians getting wiped out, which I probably won't keep.

I'm definitely keeping my canon run. This is the MaleShep I bring up from time to time, the one who missed the opportunity to ply Kaidan with booze and therefore ended up alone, the one who rewrote the geth thinking he'd get a droid army, only to have them panic once the Reapers arrived. (Similarly, he kept Maelon's data thinking it would give him a krogan army, and saved the rachni because he knew it would give him a rachni army)

[Comrade]

Anyone else planning on having imperfect saves going into Andromeda? I'm not talking about FailSheps here, hilarious though they may be. I'm talking about sub-par decisions that make for a better story.

Does the destroy ending count? Shepard does survive to retire somewhere nice and quiet with Liara (or she survives to spend years overcoming the weight and traumas of the war (http://archiveofourown.org/works/3787174/chapters/8426944), one or the other), but on the other hand, the poor geth. Also, is it known that Mass Effect trilogy saves will be carried on into Andromeda?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I still have to finish my canon run! :smallannoyed:

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Finally got my medic engineer through ME1. Kind of bummed that the ME2 engineer doesn't seem to have anything like that, but hey I get a drone now. Drones are cool. And research discounts, apparently. Taking Neural Shock as a bonus power is about the most I can do to create some continuity.

Speaking of ME2, which heavy weapon do you guys rate the best for it. I think the one I used the most was the collector laser beam thing, but I never really explored all the other options (there are quite a number).

[Rodin]

Speaking of ME2, which heavy weapon do you guys rate the best for it. I think the one I used the most was the collector laser beam thing, but I never really explored all the other options (there are quite a number).

I always used the laser beam - I found it the most reliable and versatile of the heavy weapons. The Cain is marvelous on the couple occasions that you're actually justified using it, but takes so much ammo that it's pretty impractical all the other times. It's hilarious to one-shot the final boss with the Cain, especially since that fight is just annoying anyway.

[Landis963]

I always used the laser beam - I found it the most reliable and versatile of the heavy weapons. The Cain is marvelous on the couple occasions that you're actually justified using it, but takes so much ammo that it's pretty impractical all the other times. It's hilarious to one-shot the final boss with the Cain, especially since that fight is just annoying anyway.

Cain's lethal blast radius was too large for my taste. Must have killed myself 15 times during the Collector ship praetorian fight before I finally twigged.

[Leon]

Missile Launcher till i get a hold of the Collector Beam

[Psyren]

Speaking of ME2, which heavy weapon do you guys rate the best for it. I think the one I used the most was the collector laser beam thing, but I never really explored all the other options (there are quite a number).

Arc Projector hands down. Massive damage to armor, auto-win against shields and very useful against infantry too - zap the one guy out of cover and you chain to all his friends. That thing saved my ass in Arrival.


Finally got my medic engineer through ME1. Kind of bummed that the ME2 engineer doesn't seem to have anything like that, but hey I get a drone now. Drones are cool. And research discounts, apparently. Taking Neural Shock as a bonus power is about the most I can do to create some continuity.

Neural Shock unfortunately sucks in ME2 - it only works on unshielded organic enemies, and generally by the time you get their defenses off they're about to die anyway. Cryo Blast has a similar problem, but at least that one can freeze unprotected synthetics too.

My own engineer took Kasumi's Flashbang Grenade as a bonus power.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Arc Projector hands down. Massive damage to armor, auto-win against shields and very useful against infantry too - zap the one guy out of cover and you chain to all his friends. That thing saved my ass in Arrival.

I did try the Arc Projector once, but couldn't figure it out. The wiki says it take two seconds to charge up. Do I need to hold the trigger down for two seconds and then let go?

[Psyren]

I did try the Arc Projector once, but couldn't figure it out. The wiki says it take two seconds to charge up. Do I need to hold the trigger down for two seconds and then let go?

Just hold it down till it fires (and point it in the general direction of a baddie that's outside cover.) You shouldn't let go at all until after it goes off.

[Inarius]

For me I'd have to say arc projector is my favorite, though the grenade launcher is handy as well. I don't really like the missile launcher or particle beam and the Cain is just too ammo hungry and tends to be way overkill.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Something just occurred to me. In ME3 Javik mentions the Metacon Wars and voices some opinions about the differences between synthetics and organics. But (if I recall correctly) he doesn't explicitly state that the synthetics of his cycle collaborated with the Reapers, like the geth ended up doing.

Saren seemed to think it was a straightforward synthetic/organic war. But since nothing advanced survived into the current era other than the Collectors and strategically located ruins, I'm guessing that synthetics of the previous cycle were either turned into Reapers or simply annihilated along with the organics.

The possibility that the Reapers took these synthetics, still in their original forms, back through the Citadel into dark space is intriguing but it doesn't seem to fit the Reaper mindset. At least not to me.

But if there's anything specific mentioned in the games (or even novels and comics) that perhaps I missed, that would be handy.

[Psyren]

I only use the missile launcher to do the YMIR trick on Daratar and leave it on the ship all other times. The projectiles are too slow and you have too little control over what they choose to home in on for regular use imo.

[LibraryOgre]

Yeah, I'm a Collector Beam guy, myself. I've tried others, but the straightforwardness of the beam is too attractive.

I will say, I'm a bit disappointed that ME2 and 3 disposed with the highly effecient weapon setup you saw in ME1... where you carried 4 weapons at all times, and they fit nicely on the back. I thought that was simply a cool way to make weapons force-portable.

[Psyren]

I will say, I'm a bit disappointed that ME2 and 3 disposed with the highly effecient weapon setup you saw in ME1... where you carried 4 weapons at all times, and they fit nicely on the back. I thought that was simply a cool way to make weapons force-portable.

I agree, particularly for soldiers. Letting them carry all the guns would have been a great way to distinguish them from the other classes both visually and mechanically. And given their MP nerf (i.e. they can't slow time with AR in multiplayer for obvious reasons) they could use a buff to compensate.

[Inarius]

Well technically in ME3 you can equip a weapon in every slot if you want to. Youd have a pretty hefty recharge penalty for doing so, but it would be viable with a few builds. Also on another note, does anyone ever use the cryo gun heavy weapon? I don't think I've ever tried it.

[Psyren]

Well technically in ME3 you can equip a weapon in every slot if you want to. Youd have a pretty hefty recharge penalty for doing so, but it would be viable with a few builds. Also on another note, does anyone ever use the cryo gun heavy weapon? I don't think I've ever tried it.

Sadly no - you can try to equip a gun in every slot, and they will even show there, but it won't let you leave the equip screen if you have more than two.

No on the cryo gun. The freeze effect is useless (anything down to health will die very quickly anyway) and it lacks the advantages of all the others (the GL's splash, the ML's homing, the Cain's.... awesome, the BH's vacuum, the CL's ammo and the AP's chain.)

[5ColouredWalker]

Sadly no - you can try to equip a gun in every slot, and they will even show there, but it won't let you leave the equip screen if you have more than two.

I thought that was only Multiplayer, and the Shepard could carry all 5 if s/he wanted. In fact, I distinctly remember carrying 3 at one point, before deciding I didn't need to carry a pistol as well as an SMG.

[Leon]

Quick trip through AAA let me equip and use all 5 weapons

[Psyren]

I thought that was only Multiplayer, and the Shepard could carry all 5 if s/he wanted. In fact, I distinctly remember carrying 3 at one point, before deciding I didn't need to carry a pistol as well as an SMG.

Yeah I was talking about MP (hence "MP nerf") - sorry for the confusion. Yes, Shepard can carry all 5 but Soldiers get no real benefit for doing so (and in fact are discouraged from doing it due to the weight) and I think this is was a missed opportunity. A bonus to damage, DR and reload speed for every gun you carry would have been nice for instance.

[chainer1216]

I used the cryo gun all the time, what it has over other guns is a rapid fire rate.

[Psyren]

I used the cryo gun all the time, what it has over other guns is a rapid fire rate.

The collector laser has that in spades though, and plenty more ammo besides.

[tonberrian]

I only used heavy weapons twice, because I am a cheapskate (or rather, Cerberus is, because seriously you spent billions of credits reviving me why can't you spend a few thousand to pay for ship upgrades). Missile launcher for that mission to collect the boxes, and Collector Beam for the Reaper. I always had the collector beam, but I preferred shooting my submachine gun.

[Dienekes]

Much like tonberrian I never really used the heavy weapons. Except once I used the Cain to see what it did in ME2, then I laughed as the explosion enveloped and killed my Shepard.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Having just picked up Legion with one of my Shepards, I wonder if it's possible to rush to the derelict Reaper, get Legion, and then do a lot of fun missions before the Reaper IFF triggers. The way I run most of my ME2 games, we pick Legion up, its loyalty quest triggers almost immediately, and soon after that the Normandy gets boarded. So the most action Legion ever sees is in its own loyalty mission.

I'm not eager to get the captured Normandy crew killed, but I'd like to actually play some missions with Legion.

[Psyren]

There is no way to do more than two missions with Legion and still save the whole crew outside of modding him into your party before doing the IFF.

You can always leave some folks disloyal for a little bit and then revisit their stuff after the suicide mission.


I only used heavy weapons twice, because I am a cheapskate (or rather, Cerberus is, because seriously you spent billions of credits reviving me why can't you spend a few thousand to pay for ship upgrades). Missile launcher for that mission to collect the boxes, and Collector Beam for the Reaper. I always had the collector beam, but I preferred shooting my submachine gun.

I rarely use them too but the Arc Projector is too handy on Arrival to pass up. And I love using the Cain on Praetorians and the Human Reaper.

[NEO|Phyte]

Cain is also handy on the derelict for nuking the core right through its closed cover.

[tonberrian]

I did have a fun moment in 3, where I took one of the Blackstars at the end of the Palaven mission and shot the Reaper with it.

I half expected the Reaper to get pissed at me and start shooting when I saw the boom. :smalleek:

[Zevox]

I didn't use heavy weapons much either - tended to forget they existed, since they just weren't necessary - but I tended to favor the Black Hole Gun. Just because it was cool.

[JohnTheSavage]

I tend to rock the Cain when I play ME2. Like plenty others, I don't use my heavy weapons much, so on the rare occasion that I do, I want to be sure whatever I'm aiming at is GONE.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

There is no way to do more than two missions with Legion and still save the whole crew outside of modding him into your party before doing the IFF.

You can always leave some folks disloyal for a little bit and then revisit their stuff after the suicide mission.


I considered that, but I felt it simpler to do all the loyalty missions so there's no risk of people suddenly dead. I remember watching a Let's Play of the suicide mission, the guy had all the loyalty missions and all the Normandy upgrades, but Tali somehow dies in the rear guard anyway.

[JohnTheSavage]

IIRC, people dying in the rearguard is based on their defensive stats, shields, health, barriers, armor and so on. So taking say, Garrus and Grunt with you to the final boss is going to weaken your rearguard much more than taking say, Miranda and Mordin.

[Zevox]

IIRC, people dying in the rearguard is based on their defensive stats, shields, health, barriers, armor and so on. So taking say, Garrus and Grunt with you to the final boss is going to weaken your rearguard much more than taking say, Miranda and Mordin.
Nope. Everybody has a set point value associated with them for that part - the party members that would logically be tougher have higher ones by default, but it's a simple number, not something based on health stats. They get +1 to that number if they're loyal. Characters left at the "Hold the Line" portion start dying if the average score of the group is below a certain point, with specific ones going first (Mordin is lowest on the totem pole, so he's the most common to lose that way).

[Inarius]

Nope. Everybody has a set point value associated with them for that part - the party members that would logically be tougher have higher ones by default, but it's a simple number, not something based on health stats. They get +1 to that number if they're loyal. Characters left at the "Hold the Line" portion start dying if the average score of the group is below a certain point, with specific ones going first (Mordin is lowest on the totem pole, so he's the most common to lose that way).

Pretty much this. Basically Garrus, Zaeed and Grunt are the heavies and Thane, Mordin, Tali and Kasumi are the weak teammates with the rest being average. The values are 3 for heavies, 1 for average, 0 for weak with a +1 bonus for being loyal. You need an average of 2.0 between everyone left behind for them all to survive. So basically the 3 heavies can compensate for 3-5 unloyal average teammates depending on whether you take 2 of your weak teammates with you and assign one to guard the crew.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Pretty much this. Basically Garrus, Zaeed and Grunt are the heavies and Thane, Mordin, Tali and Kasumi are the weak teammates with the rest being average. The values are 3 for heavies, 1 for average, 0 for weak with a +1 bonus for being loyal. You need an average of 2.0 between everyone left behind for them all to survive. So basically the 3 heavies can compensate for 3-5 unloyal average teammates depending on whether you take 2 of your weak teammates with you and assign one to guard the crew.

Lol. On my most recent run I took Tali and Thane with me to fight the human reaper, and sent Mordin to escort the noncombatants (don't have Kasumi's DLC). Thane being "weak" is surprising though. Yeah, the guy's dying but he still is pretty fierce.

[Lord Ruby34]

Lol. On my most recent run I took Tali and Thane with me to fight the human reaper, and sent Mordin to escort the noncombatants (don't have Kasumi's DLC). Thane being "weak" is surprising though. Yeah, the guy's dying but he still is pretty fierce.

I'm pretty sure he's one of the average ones, actually. I thought it was Jack who was considered weak.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

On an unrelated note, does anyone find that when importing FemShep faces from ME1/ME2 that they look a bit...off in ME3? I know I'm not the best face crafter, but my MaleShep faces seem to import better. It's the darndest thing.

[Psyren]

I'm pretty sure he's one of the average ones, actually. I thought it was Jack who was considered weak.

Let's clear this up.

You need an average score of 2 across the board for everyone holding the line to live. Less than that and you start losing squad.

Strong Defenders (base score 3, loyal score 4)
- Grunt
- Zaeed
- Garrus

Average Defenders (base score 1, loyal score 2)
- Thane
- Legion
- Samara/Morinth (remember - Morinth is always loyal)
- Jacob
- Miranda

Weak Defenders (base score 0, loyal score 1)
- Jack
- Kasumi
- Tali
- Mordin

Source (http://forum.bioware.com/topic/119526-modified-13-nov-2010-the-ultimate-guide-for-the-omega-4-relay-mission-aka-suicide-mission/)

Note that Weak Defenders bring down your average even if they are loyal. If you're going for a minimum loyalty run, get rid of them by any means necessary. Don't recruit them at all before the SM (e.g. Kasumi and possibly Tali), send one of them back with the crew (loyal so they don't die), and take two of them with you to fight the human reaper (again, loyal so they don't die.) In other words, if you want a minimum-loyalty squad that all survives in order to take Legion on as many loyalty missions as possible, you probably want 2-3 of the Weak Defenders loyal, and at least one of them is coming with you while one is going back to the ship.

All three of the Strong Defenders can be disloyal and they will still cancel out three of the disloyal average defenders. Miranda, Jacob and of course Legion (since he is the crux of this plan) are all mandatory, and you must recruit Samara or Thane as well, so you'll want at least one of these loyal before the SM too.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I want to plan this out before my next Shepard starts ME2, if I got anything wrong please correct me.

So using the charts I've crafted the plan.

Step 1: Recruit everyone (except Kasumi, since I don't have that DLC). That gives me 11 people to work with.
Step 2: Do loyalty missions for Jack, Tali, Mordin, Miranda, and Legion.
Step 3: Send Tali/Legion into the vents, and have Miranda lead the first fireteam.
Step 4: Have Jack hold the barriers and send Miranda again to be squad leader.
Step 5: Send Jack/Tali/Mordin to escort the noncombatants, and bring the other two with me to fight the human reaper.
Step 6: That should give us a score of 16 to hold the line, which divided by 8 is exactly 2.

The three non-loyal heavies = 9. Miranda and Legion (average loyal) = 4. The other three average non-loyal = 3. Therefore 16.

If I ignore Thane or Samara before the Collector base, can I recruit them later? It seems a bit weird, since the mission is already over, but hey it's a video game. And that would mean more fun things to do with Legion.

[JohnTheSavage]

I want to plan this out before my next Shepard starts ME2, if I got anything wrong please correct me.

So using the charts I've crafted the plan.

Step 1: Recruit everyone (except Kasumi, since I don't have that DLC). That gives me 11 people to work with.
Step 2: Do loyalty missions for Jack, Tali, Mordin, Miranda, and Legion.
Step 3: Send Tali/Legion into the vents, and have Miranda lead the first fireteam.
Step 4: Have Jack hold the barriers and send Miranda again to be squad leader.
Step 5: Send Jack/Tali/Mordin to escort the noncombatants, and bring the other two with me to fight the human reaper.
Step 6: That should give us a score of 16 to hold the line, which divided by 8 is exactly 2.

The three non-loyal heavies = 9. Miranda and Legion (average loyal) = 4. The other three average non-loyal = 3. Therefore 16.

If I ignore Thane or Samara before the Collector base, can I recruit them later? It seems a bit weird, since the mission is already over, but hey it's a video game. And that would mean more fun things to do with Legion.

:smallconfused: Honestly, that seems needlessly complicated. If you want to do stuff with legion, can't you can just leave some sidequests unfinished and take him with you in the postgame?

Also:


Step 3: Send Tali/Legion Miranda into the vents, and have Miranda Garrus lead the first fireteam. (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=022012)

In all seriousness, I just like having Garrus leading the fireteams. Garrus is always the one my Shepards trust the most and it plays into his character arc about becoming a better leader by stepping out of Shepard's shadow.

In fact, I never liked that Miranda was an acceptable choice for the fireteams. Almost everyone on the squad hates and has little respect for her.

[NEO|Phyte]

In fact, I never liked that Miranda was an acceptable choice for the fireteams. Almost everyone on the squad hates and has little respect for her.

If they're the kind of people that would let a grudge impact their performance during a high stakes mission, they have no business being on the squad. Miranda may not be popular with the squad, but she knows how to lead.

[Calemyr]

If they're the kind of people that would let a grudge impact their performance during a high stakes mission, they have no business being on the squad. Miranda may not be popular with the squad, but she knows how to lead.

Exactly. She is an accomplished leader and can do the job well. The only person who'd put a grudge against Miranda above your orders is Jack, assuming she's not loyal. Even Tali says that this is Shep's show and Tali will follow Shep's lead, but if Shep ever wants to a Cerberus ship to smithereens (even a new Normandy), she'd be happy to lend the grenade.

Honestly the vast majority of teammates don't really have a problem with her, just Jack. For most of them, she's just another oddball in a crew of oddballs. Tali and Garrus follow Shep, and Garrus says right away that he's not comfortable judging Shep's alliances after the Archangel fiasco.

[JohnTheSavage]

If they're the kind of people that would let a grudge impact their performance during a high stakes mission, they have no business being on the squad. Miranda may not be popular with the squad, but she knows how to lead.
It's like you've never met Jack.

But seriously, it's not about popularity. It's about trust, and no-one besides Jacob actually trusts Miranda as far as they could throw her. If you don't trust the person in charge, you're going to be less effective, you're going to second-guessing their discussions, you're going to be distracted. This is what the loyalty missions are all about, gaining the trust of your squad mates and removing any personal business that might distract them from the mission. By picking Miranda, you're giving them another distraction.

And besides, Miranda doesn't know how to lead. Not in the same way as someone like Shepard, at least. She knows how to command. She knows how to give orders. But leading, in this context, is more than that. Leading is what Shepard does. Leading is being able to inspire loyalty in your subordinates. Leading is being able to inspire subordinates to be the best they can be. A leader is able to make people believe in a cause. This isn't something Miranda does.


Exactly. She is an accomplished leader and can do the job well. The only person who'd put a grudge against Miranda above your orders is Jack, assuming she's not loyal. Even Tali says that this is Shep's show and Tali will follow Shep's lead, but if Shep ever wants to a Cerberus ship to smithereens (even a new Normandy), she'd be happy to lend the grenade.

Honestly the vast majority of teammates don't really have a problem with her, just Jack. For most of them, she's just another oddball in a crew of oddballs. Tali and Garrus follow Shep, and Garrus says right away that he's not comfortable judging Shep's alliances after the Archangel fiasco.

See, here's the thing: this is the suicide mission, where the slightest bit of doubt means death. In the squad dialogues on the ship, a number of squadmates have an option under investigate where you ask them about Miranda and Jacob. Guess what the underlying theme is regarding Miranda. "I have my doubts about her".

My problem with Miranda isn't that she's not accomplished or experienced or doesn't know what she's doing or whatever. My problem with Miranda is that she's consistently portrayed as being incapable of inspiring confidence from the other squadmates, yet is considered one of the best options for leading these same squadmates on a suicide mission where, as I said, the slightest bit of doubt means death.

[Rodin]

It's like you've never met Jack.

But seriously, it's not about popularity. It's about trust, and no-one besides Jacob actually trusts Miranda as far as they could throw her. If you don't trust the person in charge, you're going to be less effective, you're going to second-guessing their discussions, you're going to be distracted. This is what the loyalty missions are all about, gaining the trust of your squad mates and removing any personal business that might distract them from the mission. By picking Miranda, you're giving them another distraction.

And besides, Miranda doesn't know how to lead. Not in the same way as someone like Shepard, at least. She knows how to command. She knows how to give orders. But leading, in this context, is more than that. Leading is what Shepard does. Leading is being able to inspire loyalty in your subordinates. Leading is being able to inspire subordinates to be the best they can be. A leader is able to make people believe in a cause. This isn't something Miranda does.



See, here's the thing: this is the suicide mission, where the slightest bit of doubt means death. In the squad dialogues on the ship, a number of squadmates have an option under investigate where you ask them about Miranda and Jacob. Guess what the underlying theme is regarding Miranda. "I have my doubts about her".

My problem with Miranda isn't that she's not accomplished or experienced or doesn't know what she's doing or whatever. My problem with Miranda is that she's consistently portrayed as being incapable of inspiring confidence from the other squadmates, yet is considered one of the best options for leading these same squadmates on a suicide mission where, as I said, the slightest bit of doubt means death.


I've always had this opinion, and it's why Miranda never gets to lead jack squat on my teams unless I'm trying for a specific "X person dies" outcome.

Of course, this is also colored by my general dislike of Miranda in general, which is why she also never winds up on my squad. Except for that one time on Insanity when I needed her passive to push me into one-hit-kill territory with the Widow.

[Psyren]

:smallconfused: Honestly, that seems needlessly complicated. If you want to do stuff with legion, can't you can just leave some sidequests unfinished and take him with you in the postgame?

...Pretty sure that's what he's doing :smalltongue:

The issue is that Legion only has dialogue during the loyalty and recruitment missions. So those are the ones he wants to bring Legion along on. But obviously, to bring him along on a loyalty mission means that person has to be disloyal during the SM, which runs the risk of getting all or some of the HTL squad owned if you use folks in the wrong places.



In all seriousness, I just like having Garrus leading the fireteams. Garrus is always the one my Shepards trust the most and it plays into his character arc about becoming a better leader by stepping out of Shepard's shadow.

In fact, I never liked that Miranda was an acceptable choice for the fireteams. Almost everyone on the squad hates and has little respect for her.

This is more or less a military operation. Liking your CO is not a requirement - them knowing what the hell they're doing (which she does) is. Hell, liking her could even get in the way of the mission.

Think of it this way - she understands everyone else's capabilities better than anyone save perhaps you. So when you assign her to lead a fireteam, her orders take that into account - she has Grunt charge a fortified position, gets Garrus to snipe Harbinger, has Samara make a barrier etc.

Look at Jacob, who is actually another "good choice" for the fireteam lead. He was willing to jump in and volunteer for the vents without even understanding the nature of the issue. She is the one that speaks up, pointing out that a tech expert is needed in the vents, and she was right.

And yes, she makes mistakes, like volunteering for the biotic bubble when she wasn't strong enough. Nobody's perfect.

Most importantly for haruspex's purposes though, she's the only character who can lead the second fire team while disloyal without dying, making her loyalty mission an ideal choice to postpone in minimal-loyalty runs.

[Calemyr]

See, here's the thing: this is the suicide mission, where the slightest bit of doubt means death. In the squad dialogues on the ship, a number of squadmates have an option under investigate where you ask them about Miranda and Jacob. Guess what the underlying theme is regarding Miranda. "I have my doubts about her".

My problem with Miranda isn't that she's not accomplished or experienced or doesn't know what she's doing or whatever. My problem with Miranda is that she's consistently portrayed as being incapable of inspiring confidence from the other squadmates, yet is considered one of the best options for leading these same squadmates on a suicide mission where, as I said, the slightest bit of doubt means death.

As I said, outside of Tali and Jack, there's nobody who really has an ax to grind against her any more than they do against Garrus. If Shep says she's in charge, and she's "loyal" (which is inaccurate, it's more about being focused on the mission), she'll do a good job leading them. If Jack is loyal, not even having to listen to the cheerleader will phase her, and Tali from the get-go has said that she'll accept Shep's decision on keeping Miranda. Besides, even at their most dubious, they're not trusting Miranda - they're trusting Shep's decision to put her in command.

Now, would I have liked a bonus scene with Miranda and Jack on the fireteam? Oh, heck yeah. But it would have been such a niche scene as to not be valuable: Miranda would need to be loyal and in charge of the fire team, while Jack would have to be disloyal and not in the swarm team (either as the biotic or as a team member). That's a small sliver of probability, frankly, and I can forgive them for not spending time on acknowledging that Jack still hates Miranda. Besides, are we going to take that further? If Zaeed is made fire team leader, should the party moan that they're all going to die - to which Zaeed happily chimes in "I won't"? If Jacob gets the spot, does Kasumi get to say "I'll follow you anywhere as long as you're wearing those pants"? If Mordin gets the spot, does Grunt get to say "then put me on bug duty, because I don't do stealth and he doesn't do anything else"?

But we don't do that, do we? Shep lays don't the orders and nobody questions them once they're made. If the person in question isn't up to the assignment, someone is going to die. That's all there is to it.

As for disliking Miranda as a player, I get that. But just because you find her an arrogant so-and-so doesn't mean she's not good at her job. She's a good leader, and leaders don't have to be liked - just obeyed.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

:smallconfused: Honestly, that seems needlessly complicated. If you want to do stuff with legion, can't you can just leave some sidequests unfinished and take him with you in the postgame?


I've completed ME2 four times now, and each time is the same: complete as much as I can to hit level 30, and then launch the suicide mission. I was afraid of people dying so I'd complete all the loyalty quests, without ever thinking about the numbers and rules governing the game.

Yeah, it seems complicated, but I wouldn't say "needlessly". The purpose is to experience ME2 in a different way. Running a perfect suicide mission without 100% loyalty, before level 30? That's something I haven't done yet. And honestly, once I found out about the rules that governed the possible outcomes of the suicide mission, I just knew I had to explore it.

That said, if Bioware hadn't locked the last team member in such an awkward point of the game's story progression, I'd never have thought of this.

[Psyren]

That said, if Bioware hadn't locked the last team member in such an awkward point of the game's story progression, I'd never have thought of this.

Indeed, I'd have greatly preferred it if *I* could choose when the IFF research began, rather than EDI and Joker happily deploying it to production like noobs. And the whole "let's get the entire squad on the shuttle" thing was beyond contrived.

[Morty]

ME2 does have several moments where you need to drop everything you're doing and go to a place. The first two times - Horizon and the Collector ship - aren't a very big problem, because you can just pick everything up again afterwards. Unless you neglect to talk to Grunt before the briefing, like I did. But the Collector attack is problematic. An attack is supposed to be sudden, but if they just let you choose when to install the IFF, it'd solve everything neatly. Getting everyone onto the shuttle for some reason doesn't make a lick of sense, either. Why not, I don't know, take the people who go with Shepard and leave others on the Normandy? It's not like the possibility of getting attacked by Collectors, or someone else, was a remote one.

[Inarius]

I seem to remember the cause of this being partly a technical one. The game was originally planned to be more freeform in how you go about doing your missions, but console limitations made it necessary to swap discs back and forth which was decided to be annoying and led to the game getting reorganized.

[Psyren]

I seem to remember the cause of this being partly a technical one. The game was originally planned to be more freeform in how you go about doing your missions, but console limitations made it necessary to swap discs back and forth which was decided to be annoying and led to the game getting reorganized.

This is correct, and it's the reason why Legion has dialogue for everyone's loyalty and recruitment despite it being impossible for him to be around for recruiting anyone pre-Thane.