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Slarg
2015-07-11, 03:11 AM
Hey all, brand new to DnD, though I do have some Roleplaying experience (Edge of the Empire, Vampire; the Mascarade).

Me Barbarian Half-Orc, good for smashing, not so good for spellcasting, so it's hard for me to explain what makes the spellcasting classes unique amongst each other just by looking over the rules.

The Warlock looks to be a Hexer (I believe you guys label it as "Save or Suck") type character, debilitating the enemy rather than doing direct damage, but they cast all their spells at max level so it seems like they WOULD do a bunch of damage if built for it.

The Wizard seems to be the most versatile, but the Warlock gets to cast so many spells for free it seems like a Lock would be a better utility caster.

The Sorcerer gets bonuses with his spells, as well as the ability to poop out Spell Slots, so he looks like the guy you want to play as to delete someone, though again the Lock seems to have a crapton of free spells so more slots don't seem to matter anyway.

And I'm not too sure what a Druid does, though I haven't really looked at them much.


Now, I'm not too concerned about knowing for myself; I prefer melee classes and will probably roll a Paladin when my Barb dies. I have a friend whose been looking at the game, he typically plays Spellcaster classes, and I want to be able to tell him what's what when he asks me what each one does if at all possible.

I wouldn't mind a brief summery of each classes pros/cons, though I can understand that that's a tall order to just type out. :smallsmile:

DracoKnight
2015-07-11, 03:34 AM
Hey all, brand new to DnD, though I do have some Roleplaying experience (Edge of the Empire, Vampire; the Mascarade).

Me Barbarian Half-Orc, good for smashing, not so good for spellcasting, so it's hard for me to explain what makes the spellcasting classes unique amongst each other just by looking over the rules.

The Warlock looks to be a Hexer (I believe you guys label it as "Save or Suck") type character, debilitating the enemy rather than doing direct damage, but they cast all their spells at max level so it seems like they WOULD do a bunch of damage if built for it.

The Wizard seems to be the most versatile, but the Warlock gets to cast so many spells for free it seems like a Lock would be a better utility caster.

The Sorcerer gets bonuses with his spells, as well as the ability to poop out Spell Slots, so he looks like the guy you want to play as to delete someone, though again the Lock seems to have a crapton of free spells so more slots don't seem to matter anyway.

And I'm not too sure what a Druid does, though I haven't really looked at them much.


Now, I'm not too concerned about knowing for myself; I prefer melee classes and will probably roll a Paladin when my Barb dies. I have a friend whose been looking at the game, he typically plays Spellcaster classes, and I want to be able to tell him what's what when he asks me what each one does if at all possible.

I wouldn't mind a brief summery of each classes pros/cons, though I can understand that that's a tall order to just type out. :smallsmile:

Bard: These guys buff/debuff through the power of magic through music. They are a Jack of all Trades, Master of All. They can do decent damage on their own, but do a better job when helping others do better :)

Cleric: The awesome thing about clerics is that they know every spell on their list. You can only prepare so many of them, but you get to change that out per long rest. And your particular domain spells are just always prepared. And the spells that these guys get are nothing to laugh at. Their class features Channel Divinity and Divine Intervention make going all the way to level 20 in this class worth your while.

Druid: These guys will tank for days, especially if you go Circle of the Moon. Wild Shape is amazing :D They also make decent healers, and while nothing will top the Life Cleric, these guys are awesome too :D

Sorcerer: Wild Magic Sorcerers are fun just for the chaos that they bring to the table, but all-in-all, they are the weaker of the two sorcerer bloodlines. Draconic Sorcerer is where the power comes in to play. You get an AC of 13+Dex, and at level 6 you add your Charisma modifier to all damage you deal with spells that match your Ancestral damage type. Plus, wings at will starting at 14th level :D

Wizard: These guys are awesome all around. My personal favorite is the Evocation Wizard, but I've had just as much fun with Enchantment, Charming the hell out of people :D The Wizard is the true utility caster "I have an app, erm, spell for that!"

Warlock: These guys are basically the ultimate blaster, and they're fun to roleplay. The entire class is built around the most powerful cantrip. You get light armor proficiency, but if you don't like wearing armor, you can get Mage Armor for free. If you go Pact of the Blade you get any martial weapon you wish at a moments notice. If you go Fiend Patron, you get Fireball. If you combine your invocations and feats properly, you can hit someone with Eldritch Blast from 600 feat away. Another invocation that the Warlocks get allows you to add your Charisma modifier to all damage done by Eldritch Blast, which will be the bulk of what you use anyways. Cantrips being at will, and you having limited spell slots :P

Troacctid
2015-07-11, 04:18 AM
Warlocks have a unique resource management system. Most of their abilities either refresh on a short rest or are usable at will. Every other spellcasting class in the game refreshes their spells on a long rest. Furthermore, Warlocks automatically cast all their spells at the highest level possible. What this means is that Warlocks don't generally need to worry about resource management or conserving spell slots the way other casters do. They can toss around their most powerful abilities in every combat, instead of saving their big guns in case there's a boss fight around the corner. Plus, since they have a decent-sized hit die, they can be a little more gung-ho without worrying as much about dying to a stray arrow. However, the cost of this is that they have fewer options than other casters--their repertoire of known spells is extremely limited.

Wizards are kind of the opposite. They have access to a lot of different spells known, and they have the biggest and most versatile class spell list in the game. Their spell preparation mechanic gives you a lot of options in your toolbox and rewards you for effectively managing your resources.

Sorcerers don't get as many options as Wizards, but they have their metamagic mechanic allows them to use what spells they do have to a greater effect by augmenting them in various ways. So, basically, they know fewer spells than the Wizard, but they have a greater mastery of those spells that they do have.

Druids have a nature-themed spell list. A lot of their magic deals with plants, animals, and weather--so they can, like, summon vines to wrap around their enemies, call down fog clouds or lightning bolts or windstorms, conjure a pack of wolves to aid them in battle, etc. They're also shapeshifters--they can take the form of an animal.

Clerics are primarily support casters, with a lot of their spell list consisting of buffs, debuffs, and healing. However, depending on their choice of domain, they can have a very different flavor. Life Clerics are specialized in healing, Trickery Clerics excel at subterfuge and deception, Light Clerics like to blast their enemies with fireballs, and so on.

Bards are a jack of all trades, with a mix of spellcasting, skills, and martial abilities. They're versatile, but not in the same way Wizards are versatile--Wizards are good at planning ahead and preparing their toolkit in advance, whereas Bards are good at improvising and adapting to new situations as they arise.

Strill
2015-07-11, 04:29 AM
Warlock has by far the fewest spell slots, but they're always high level. They're the worst at utility. They also learn the fewest number of spells. To compensate, they get Eldritch Blast, which has high damage at-will, and with upgrades has free automatic knockback multiple times per turn.

Wizard has the most spell slots, via Arcane Recovery. They are the best at utility because they have no limit to how many spells they can learn. The Wizard School specializations are also very powerful.

The Sorcerer has fewer spell slots, even with Flexible Casting. They also have a very limited number of spells known. Twinned Spell and Quickened Spell are the primary reasons you would consider playing a Sorcerer.

Druid has a mix of support, summoning, and offensive spells. It can go either Circle of the Land for more spell slots, or Circle of the Moon to shapeshift and fight in melee combat.

Clerics have all the support and recovery spells. Their spell list is shorter than other classes, but they know every spell on it automatically, and get an extra set of spells they also know. There are few offensive cleric spells, but the ones that are available are among the best (e.g. Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon).

Ninja_Prawn
2015-07-11, 05:18 AM
Now, I'm not too concerned about knowing for myself; I prefer melee classes and will probably roll a Paladin when my Barb dies. I have a friend whose been looking at the game, he typically plays Spellcaster classes, and I want to be able to tell him what's what when he asks me what each one does if at all possible.

I wouldn't mind a brief summery of each classes pros/cons, though I can understand that that's a tall order to just type out. :smallsmile:

DracoKnight's summary of full-casters is spot on, so I won't repeat that.

You say you're not too concerned about understanding magic, but in the next breath you say you will probably play a Paladin next. Paladins (and Rangers) are what we call 'half-casters', because they get a built-in spellcasting progression up to 5th-level slots. So you should probably spend the time to get your head around the details.

Things to remember:


Concentration: Some spells require concentration. You can only concentrate on one spell at once, and if you cast another concentration spell, you automatically drop whatever you were concentrating on before. You also have to make CON saves to maintain concentration whenever you take damage. Most of the powerful buff/debuff spells are subject to this mechanic - so that means any that aren't are particularly valuable (e.g. Blindness/Deafness, Darkvision, Mirror Image, Spiritual Weapon).
Arcane vs. Divine Spellcasting: By longstanding tradition, D&D magic is sorted into two main branches: Arcane (Arcane Trickster, Bard, Eldritch Knight, Sorcerer, Wizard and Warlock magic) and Divine (Cleric, Druid, Paladin and Ranger magic). In 5th edition, this doesn't mean much from a mechanical perspective, but it has some influence on the 'feel' of those classes' spell lists. There are other types of magic, such as Psionics, but the main split is Arcane/Divine.
Spell Scrolls: The rules for spell scrolls seem to contradict themselves (compare DMG 139 with DMG 200). It's a shame, because every other part of the 5e rules is so well written. You'll have to ask your DM who they'll be handling spell scrolls. I go by the stricter version from page 200, but allow the Thief's 'Use Magic Device' ability to bypass the restrictions.
Multiclassing: If you multiclass with more than one spellcasting class (such as Wizard 2 / Cleric 2), you get spell slots as if you were a 4th-level caster, but you only have access to spells as if you were single-classed (so the Wizard 2 / Cleric 2 can only cast 1st-level spells, despite having 2nd-level slots).
Monsters: Quite a few monsters and NPCs are able to cast spells. These generally work the same way as PC spells (their spells are all drawn from the list in the PHB). This means they have to keep up their concentration and they have either a limited number of slots or a 'x/day' type limit (usually for innate casting).


You (and you spellcasting friend, and anyone else for that matter) are welcome to use my spell matrix (under Miscellaneous Stuff in my extended homebrew sig). It's an excel spreadsheet of all the spells in the game, that you can sort/filter by class, school, level, etc. I believe other people have developed similar tools if mine is not to your taste.

Shining Wrath
2015-07-11, 07:37 AM
All the full casters get the same number of spell slots per day, with some having abilities that let them regain spell slots during short rests. The main differences are which spells can be prepared for use each day.

Bard, sorcerer: choose new spells when you level up; they don't change from day to day. On a level-up you can also swap out one old spell for a new one.
Cleric, druid: after each long rest, prepare any spells you like from the entire list available to your class.
Warlock: lower level spells are like bard. Level 6 and up, you get ONE choice at each level, which never changes, ever.
Wizard: after each long rest, prepare any spells you like from those in your spellbook. This is guaranteed to have 6 at level 1 and 2 per level thereafter, plus more as the DM grants treasure of scrolls or, frabjous day!, an enemy wizard's spellbook - plus the opportunity to trade spells with friendly wizards.

After that, they get the following class features related to casting.
Bards get to poach spells from other classes' list.
Clerics get domain spells that are always there. Some types of clerics get to add wisdom modifier to damage.
Circle of the Land druids also get domain spells.
Sorcerers get metamagic, which lets them exchange sorcerer points for the right to say "I break this rule". Verbal and somatic components? Not with Subtle Spell metamagic. Only one spell per turn? Not with Quicken. Also, sorcerer points can be exchanged for spell levels.
Warlocks get invocations, which are a form of always-on spell. Permanent darkvision, that sort of thing. Some invocations boost the Eldritch Blast cantrip, which as noted is the best cantrip out there.
Wizards pick a specialty school and get boosts related to spells of that type, plus at high levels they get to kind-of turn higher level spells into cantrips.

Above and beyond spellcasting they get some stuff.
Bards get weapons and armor and can fight. So do clerics.
Druids get to change shape into beasts; Moon druids get better beasts, more often.
Sorcerers get wings.
Warlocks get stuff depending on their patron, and some ability to fight.
Wizards? Not much.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-07-11, 09:49 AM
Bard, sorcerer and ranger: choose new spells when you level up; they don't change from day to day. On a level-up you can also swap out one old spell for a new one.
Cleric, druid and paladin: after each long rest, prepare any spells you like from the entire list available to your class.
Warlock: lower level spells are like bard. Level 6 and up, you get ONE choice at each level, which never changes, ever.
Wizard: after each long rest, prepare any spells you like from those in your spellbook. This is guaranteed to have 6 at level 1 and 2 per level thereafter, plus more as the DM grants treasure of scrolls or, frabjous day!, an enemy wizard's spellbook - plus the opportunity to trade spells with friendly wizards.


My comments in red. :smalltongue:

LuisDantas
2015-07-11, 10:02 AM
Also, both Fighters and Rogues get to choose a subclass at third level, and it turns out that the Player's Handbook has the rules for spellcaster subclasses for both. They have less spells and spell levels than even half-casters and have very few choices beyond a couple of Wizard schools in each case, but you should be aware of that option.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-11, 10:43 AM
Ritual Magic: Some spells have the ritual tag. Classes with the ritual caster feature can use them as a ritual, adding 10 minutes to the cast time, but not expending a spell slot. Additional limitations may apply, see below.
Bards can cast any spell they know with the ritual tag as a ritual.
Clerics and Druids can cast any spell they have prepared with the ritual tag as a ritual.
Paladins and Rangers can not cast spells as rituals, and even though they have ritual spells on their list, their spell lists are not valid choices for the ritual caster feat.
Sorcerers can not cast spells as rituals, but their spell list is a valid choice for the Ritual Caster feat.
Warlocks normally can not cast spells as rituals, but they have the notable exception of Pact of the Tome warlocks, who can, through an invocation, gain the ability to cast every ritual spell, from every list, as long as they are in their tome.
Wizards can cast any spell that is in their spellbook with the ritual tag as a ritual, regardless of whether or not the spell is currently prepared.
Those with the ritual caster feat can cast any spell in their ritual book as a ritual.
Pact of the Tome Warlocks, Wizards, and Ritual casters can add eligible spells they find in written form to their books to expand the number of ritual spells they know and can cast, Bards must choose spells with the ritual tag as spells known as they level, and Clerics and Druids simply choose ritual spells from their spell list when preparing spells to access them as options.

Edit: The following is a list of all ritual spells, sorted by spell level, then by class. Note that some of the classes are false options- Rangers and Paladins are not ritual casters, and their spell lists cannot be chosen for the ritual caster feat, so barring house rules, their entries can be safely ignored.


Alarm (1st level, Ranger, Wizard)
Comprehend Languages (1st level, Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard)
Detect Magic (1st level, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard)
Detect Poison and Disease (1st level, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger)
Find Familiar (1st level, Wizard)
Identify (1st level, Bard, Wizard)
Illusory Script (1st level, Bard, Warlock, Wizard)
Purify Food and Drink (1st level, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger)
Speak with Animals (1st level, Bard, Druid, Ranger)
Tenser's Floating Disk (1st level, Wizard)
Unseen Servant (1st level, Bard, Warlock, Wizard)


Animal Messenger (2nd level, Bard, Druid, Ranger)
Augury (2nd level, Cleric)
Beast Sense (2nd level, Druid, Ranger)
Gentle Repose (2nd level, Cleric, Wizard)
Locate Animals or Plants (2nd level, Bard, Druid, Ranger)
Magic Mouth (2nd level, Bard, Wizard)
Silence (2nd level, Bard, Cleric, Ranger)


Feign Death (3rd level, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard)
Leomund's Tiny Hut (3rd level, Bard, Wizard)
Meld into Stone (3rd level, Cleric, Druid)
Phantom Steed (3rd level, Wizard)
Water Breathing (3rd level, Druid, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard)
Water Walk (3rd level, Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Sorcerer)


Divination (4th level, Cleric)


Commune (5th level, Cleric)
Commune with Nature (5th level, Druid, Ranger)
Contact other Plane (5th level, Warlock, Wizard)
Rary's Telepathic Bond (5th level, Wizard)


Drawmij's Instant Summons (6th level, Wizard)
Forbiddance (6th level, Cleric)


Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Identify, Illusory Script, Speak with animals, Unseen Servant; Animal Messenger, Locate Animals or Plants, Magic Mouth, Silence; Feign Death, Leomund's Tiny Hut


Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Purify Food and Drink; Gentle Repose, Silence; Feign Death, Meld into Stone, Water Walk; Divination; Commune; Forbiddance


Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Purify Food and Drink, Speak with Animals; Animal Messenger, Beast Sense, Locate Animals or Plants; Feign Death, Meld into Stone, Water Breathing, Water Walk; Commune with Nature


Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Purify Food and Drink


Alarm, Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Speak with Animals; Animal Messenger, Beast Sense, Locate Animals or Plants, Silence; Water Breathing, Water Walk; Commune with Nature


Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic; Water Breathing, Water Walk


Comprehend Languages, Illusory Script, unseen Servant, Contact Other Plane


Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Identify, Illusory Script, Tenser's Floating Disc, Unseen Servant; Gentle Repose, Magic Mouth; Feign Death, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Phantom Steed, Water Breathing; Contact Other Plane, Rary's Telepathic Bond; Drawmij's Instant Summons


Note that in the class specific lists, the semicolons separate spell levels. Despite the Ranger not being available as an option per RAW, they have a rather robust list, far larger than the Sorcerer and Warlock (both of whom only have subsets of the Wizard spell list, and since the spellcasting ability is not used in any rituals that I am aware of, there is no logical reason to ever choose the Warlock or Sorcerer list for the Ritual Caster feat), with a unique mix of options. I personally houserule allowing people to choose the Ranger spell list for Ritual Caster, and recommend doing so.

LuisDantas
2015-07-11, 11:37 AM
Sorcerers can not cast spells as rituals, but their spell list is a valid choice for the Ritual Caster feat.

Does this mean that they can cast rituals, but only if and after they take the feat?

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-11, 12:05 PM
Does this mean that they can cast rituals, but only if and after they take the feat?

correct, but since they only have 3 spells on their list that are rituals, there is no valid reason (that I can think of) that a sorcerer would ever choose their own list for the ritual caster feat, instead of the wizard list.

SharkForce
2015-07-11, 12:09 PM
Does this mean that they can cast rituals, but only if and after they take the feat?

yes. but you'd be crazy to take the feat for the sorcerer list, and should instead choose the wizard list.

on a side note: i disagree with a poster above who claimed quicken and twin are the undisputed best metamagics for sorcerer. they're both good... for dealing damage. not so good for other things.

for example, careful spell takes the limited CC options available to a sorcerer and makes them better. careful spell is awful for damage spells because it only lets your allies make the save (special exception for allies with evasion, that makes careful spell great for dropping fireball on your party). but for a spell like web, which create persistent zones of crowd control, careful spell lets you walk through that zone throughout the entire duration of the spell (i don't consider it as important from a targeting perspective, even though i mentioned the possibility of dropping a fireball on your own party; yes, it is an option. but you shouldn't be needing to drop spells on your own party, with or without careful spell, very often).

subtle spell can make suggestion a lot better, because the targets you want to use it on are typically surrounded by other people who won't react well to you casting a spell on someone. it also improves a few other spells. but it also means that there are very few times when you will lose your ability to cast spells. you can cast underwater, you can cast while tied up, you can cast while in a silence spell, etc. very situational, but when that situation comes up, you'll be very glad you have it.

i also disagree that draconic is the only good bloodline (and i'm not even referencing the unearthed arcana sorcerer options). it is certainly better for dealing damage. but wild sorcerer gets some *very* impressive abilities. for example, one ability lets you give a target -1d4 to saves (or checks) as a reaction after seeing whether they pass or fail. which is an extremely powerful ability.

having said all that, i feel that, for the moment at least, the sorcerer is generally overshadowed by other classes. in particular, the wizard has a similar but much larger spell list to choose from, can choose more spells from that list, can change around which spells within the list are prepared at any given time, has more spells prepared at any given time, and has better class abilities in general (the only particularly compelling class abilities sorcerers have is metamagic, imo).

MrStabby
2015-07-11, 12:32 PM
A few notes from what I have seen.

Warlock is very different to other casters and plays much more like a martial character. You get a powerful at will attack, probably always using one of your limited spell slots for hex and so have one free spell slot to play with - this may be one spell slot per day, unless your part takes short rests. In addition invocations give you additional at will abilities. At high levels as well, you get the worst spell progression of all the casters. One spell per day of levels 6-9 and they are not spell slots you cant cast lower level spells out of them.

Wizards, druids and sorcerers each get access to a mechanic to recover spells - arcane recovery, font of magic, natural recovery which helps them go a bit longer. Clerics and bards and moon druids have better combat abilities to use to help them conserve spells.



The concentration mechanic is very important and is one of the things that makes a bit of a caster dip viable for a lot of characters. It is a resource that most pure martials cant use and there are a lot of powerful low level spells that scale well and use concentration (bonus when you have Con as a proficient save).

Shining Wrath
2015-07-11, 12:40 PM
yes. but you'd be crazy to take the feat for the sorcerer list, and should instead choose the wizard list.

... SNIP ...



If you choose the wizard list, you have to have enough intelligence to cast the spells. Usually there are no saves involved in a ritual, but if you want to use one of the ones that does, you just made your sorcerer MAD.

SharkForce
2015-07-11, 12:44 PM
If you choose the wizard list, you have to have enough intelligence to cast the spells. Usually there are no saves involved in a ritual, but if you want to use one of the ones that does, you just made your sorcerer MAD.

there is no attribute requirement to cast spells in 5e. all you need is enough to qualify for the feat, and you can do that with wisdom or intelligence (generally speaking, wisdom is the recommended choice, as intelligence saves are not common. although, the psionics preview may certainly change that if you're playing in dark sun or something like that).

and if there is a save on a ritual spell (i can't think of any that do have a save, but whatever), the only way you can use it practically speaking is if the target is helpless anyways (a 10+ minute casting time will have that effect). if they make the save, well, it's a ritual, you can just try it again, because presumably they're still tied up.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-11, 08:12 PM
On spell lists:
A disclaimer: All of the spell lists tend to have a diverse array of options. Due to limitations on spells known and / or prepared, any given caster may be *completely different* from another caster of the same class. As such, take all of this with a grain (or 20) of salt.

Bard: Utility, utility, utility. Spells like Enhance Ability are the centerpiece of the spell list. They have many Crowd Control spells like Hypnotic Pattern and Hold Person, plentiful healing spells like Healing Word and Lesser Restoration, a summon spell in Animate Objects, and all the utility spells in the world. They lack direct damage spells, and despite having many buff and utility spells some of the standout options like Enlarge and Haste are not on their list, which means that you can't necessarily rely on Magical Secrets to provide those options, especially if you're a College of Valor Bard. The situation is also made more complicated by the limited spells known, which can make it harder to obtain all of the spells you desire off their very effective list.

Ceric and Druid: Well rounded lists provide everything from summoning (especially with the Druid), AOE damage spells, buffs, debuffs, crowd control abilities, healing, environmental adaptation, and long range teleportation (even if the cleric does have to plane shift somewhere then plane shift back). Their already well rounded lists (which they get to choose from the entire thing freely) is augmented still further by domains (if a cleric) or circles (if a druid). Be aware that your domain / circle spells are always prepared, so ideally choose one that contains spells you'll want to use day in and day out. Both of them struggle when magic is not an option, and the cleric in particular has ways to shut down mages, whether silence or antimagic field, but suffers under those same conditions due to how heavily the class relies on magic to remain effective. Moon Druids are more of a hybrid class and trade less magical ability, both in spells prepared and known and in spell recovery, for beastly melee combat abilities (forgive the pun).

Paladin: Despite having a spell list focusing mainly on healing and buff spells, the Paladin will likely use most of their spell slots each day to augment their weapon attacks with various forms of smite. The most raw form, Divine Smite, directly trades spell slots for damage, while most of the rest of them have a bonus action cast time, require concentration, and take effect on the next hit. In return, they apply a rider effect, such as potentially blinding them, making the creature give off light (stopping it from turning invisible or hiding effectively), or whatever else.

Ranger: Speaking of Bonus Action cast times, the Ranger is the other spell list that heavily features such spells. Whether modifying the strike itself (such as ensnaring strike or lightning arrow) or allowing bonus action attacks (such as swift quiver), Ranger spells also use their bonus action to augment their combat effectiveness. They also have a spell list that is somewhat of a combination of the Druid and Cleric list, having well rounded debuff abilities (notably silence), environmental control (fog cloud, plant growth, water breathing, water walk, protection from elements), a useful summon spell (conjure woodland beings), buffs, direct attack spells, and more. Unfortunately unlike the Cleric or Druid they do not have full access to their list. Like the Bard, they have a limited number of spells known, the smallest number of spells known in fact, with a max of 11. It is recommended to carefully review the options they have available, and figure out exactly what you want ahead of time, so you don't waste any picks on spells you rarely to never use. Getting Ritual Caster (based off the Druid list) can give you 12 spells which are thematically appropriate to your list able to be cast as rituals, which helps a lot. If your DM allows choosing the Ranger spell list, you get a similar list of 11 spells, trading Feign Death, Purify Food and Drink, and Meld into Stone for Alarm and Silence.

Wizard: Put here despite being out of alphabetical order simply because the sorcerer is using a stripped down version of the Wizard's spell list. As much as it might be unfair to refer to the Sorcerer in what they lack from this list, it is easier from a presentation standpoint to do it this way. The Wizard is a pure caster, pure and simple. They have buff, debuff, and utility spells galore. They have the best ritual casting of any class, both in the variety of spells known and how they are used by the class. They have crowd control, summoning, AOE damage spells, and limited environmental control (as an example, they have Protection from Elements, but not water breathing. They can, however, polymorph themselves into a form that has a swim speed, great for them, but not as useful to the party), as well as the staple high level abilities like teleportation and plane shifting. The list is wholly lacking in healing spells. They also have spell recovery mechanics and at will spell usage, giving them the highest number of potential spells per day, assuming a "normal" number of short rests, not even accounting for ritual spell use. They also have the highest number of sub classes of any class, and all of those have useful and meaningful abilities. What can I say? Wizards of the Coast loves Wizards, and it shows.

Sorcerer: You have a very similar spell list to the Wizard, but less total options. Specifically you lose almost all of the ritual spells (which makes sense since you're not a ritual caster), you lose all summon spells, and a lot of the utility / situationally useful spells. The reason for the much constrained list is the very small number of spells known (max 15). That's less than 2 spells known per spell level. You also don't really get *more* spells per day than the Wizard (if you use sorcery points to keep up with the Wizard's recovery mechanic, at 20th level, you have 6 sorcery points left, without even accounting for Spell Mastery and Signature Spells). However, what they lack in variety, they deliver in versatility of how those spells are used, namely with metamagic, and the ability to convert spell slots to sorcery points and vice versa. They are another class that can significantly benefit from the ritual caster feat, namely from the Wizard list, to augment the total number of spells known and variety of effects they can produce. The Favored Soul subclass (available HERE (https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes)), providing improved martial abilities, and greatly increasing spells known (total 25 instead of 15), is likely the most mechanically powerful option available to Sorcerers.

Warlock: Completely different from every other class. Due to recovering all of their slots on short rests, rather than long, their effectiveness largely depends on the number of encounters per day. Should the party have a large number of encounters per day, with a large number of short rests, the warlock will absolutely shine. In situations where the party has a very small number of encounters per day, with very few short rests, their strengths may have a harder time being expressed. They are largely known for their at-will damage, with the key being Eldritch Blast, which depending on investment, can go from the equivalent of firebolt but with force damage and the ability to split damage amongst multiple targets, to the longest range, highest damage at-will option in the game, with the best forced movement option built in. With a bunch of other at-will utility in invocations, potentially the best ritual casting in the game, and varied and meaningfully diverse choices in both the patron and pact chosen, they are a deceptively complex and complicated class. They have both more spells known per spell level (3 per level for 1-5) and more overall spells known (4 more, specifically, thanks to Mystic Arcanum) than the sorcerer. Their spell list includes both the "staples" of full casters like teleportation and plane shift abilities, and several unique options. They are known in particular for Hex, which is similar to the Ranger's Hunter's Mark, but combines particularly well with Eldritch Blast and applies a debuff at the same time. However, despite a spell list that includes buffs, debuffs, and crowd control options, they won't be putting out a huge total number of spells per day. Assuming 2 short rests per day, at 20th level they're casting a total of 16 spells, compared to the sorcerer's 22, not even including sorcery points. I could really go on all day about this class. If they intrigue you at all, you should really spend some time and learn more about them, as a few paragraphs really doesn't cut it.

Whew! Sorry that dragged on a bit.

Additional notes:

Concentration: The biggest thing to be aware of going into D&D 5E spellcasting is that you can only maintain concentration on one spell at a time. Generally, this means you can only have one buff *or* debuff *or* whatever else going, which is what makes spells that deal double duty (the Cleric's spirit guardians, the Warlock's Hex) so highly regarded. There are, however, exceptions, mostly defensive buffs (Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield, among others). These spells instead have a set, non-instantaneous duration, which does not require concentration. These spells deserve careful attention when you have them as options, as they can rise above the greatest limiting factor to the spellcaster's power, the normal limitation of one spell active at a time.

Bonus Action Spells: Be aware that bonus action spells have rules that are a little wonky. Specifically, if you cast a spell with a bonus action cast time, any other spells cast that round *must* be a Cantrip. It doesn't matter *as* much for the Ranger and Paladin, since their bonus action spells tend to enhance their attacks, so they're likely to not be casting additional spells on that turn anyway. However, for multiclass casters in particular, be aware that if you could normally cast multiple spells (thanks to for example Action Surge), you can essentially "lock" their casting choices into cantrips by using a bonus action spell. This means the Sorcerer's quicken metamagic in particular is best used with care.

Hope that helps!

Naanomi
2015-07-12, 12:26 AM
Just to note, tome Warlocks can take good advantage of the ritual spells Rangers and Paladins get, as might a Bard who happens to pick them up

PoeticDwarf
2015-07-12, 01:20 AM
Bard: These guys buff/debuff through the power of magic through music. They are a Jack of all Trades, Master of All. They can do decent damage on their own, but do a better job when helping others do better :)

Cleric: The awesome thing about clerics is that they know every spell on their list. You can only prepare so many of them, but you get to change that out per long rest. And your particular domain spells are just always prepared. And the spells that these guys get are nothing to laugh at. Their class features Channel Divinity and Divine Intervention make going all the way to level 20 in this class worth your while.

Druid: These guys will tank for days, especially if you go Circle of the Moon. Wild Shape is amazing :D They also make decent healers, and while nothing will top the Life Cleric, these guys are awesome too :D

Sorcerer: Wild Magic Sorcerers are fun just for the chaos that they bring to the table, but all-in-all, they are the weaker of the two sorcerer bloodlines. Draconic Sorcerer is where the power comes in to play. You get an AC of 13+Dex, and at level 6 you add your Charisma modifier to all damage you deal with spells that match your Ancestral damage type. Plus, wings at will starting at 14th level :D

Wizard: These guys are awesome all around. My personal favorite is the Evocation Wizard, but I've had just as much fun with Enchantment, Charming the hell out of people :D The Wizard is the true utility caster "I have an app, erm, spell for that!"

Warlock: These guys are basically the ultimate blaster, and they're fun to roleplay. The entire class is built around the most powerful cantrip. You get light armor proficiency, but if you don't like wearing armor, you can get Mage Armor for free. If you go Pact of the Blade you get any martial weapon you wish at a moments notice. If you go Fiend Patron, you get Fireball. If you combine your invocations and feats properly, you can hit someone with Eldritch Blast from 600 feat away. Another invocation that the Warlocks get allows you to add your Charisma modifier to all damage done by Eldritch Blast, which will be the bulk of what you use anyways. Cantrips being at will, and you having limited spell slots :P

This is exactly what it is.

And the reason the warlock is more boring than monks, rogues, paladins and rangers.

Ashrym
2015-07-12, 01:48 AM
There were some comments so far that I don't agree with, so here's my take:


Barbarian (totem) --

This isn't much more than an honourable mention, tbh. Every class either casts spells or has a subclass that casts spells. This is the most limited spell caster with the totem barbarian because it's restricted to 3 rituals (beast sense, speak with animals, commune with nature) and totem abilities have the potential to emulate magical abilities (like eagle totem flying).



Bard --

Bards are the jacks-of-all-trades as mentioned above. They tend to be baseline spellcasters because they don't have abilities that increase spell potency like other spell casters might have, or the ability to recover spell slots like other casters might have. They do have potential with spells that use ability check mechanics because of extra proficiencies, expertise, and jack-of-all-trades.

Basically, bards are standard spell casters who rely on ability checks and one college focuses more on spells & skills while the other focuses more on combat. It's not so much a master of all trades but they might be considered masters of customization with open skill selection, variety of bard spells, and magical secrets to customize the bard spell list available.

Players commonly associate bards with buffs but the spell list for buffs is extremely limited and buffs are typically bardic inspiration dice and spells acquired via magical secrets; bards don't have the buff spell support available to other casters and have access to debuffs instead, strong controlling effects, and strong healing options.

Bards are often used as an alternative to clerics.



Cleric --

Clerics are the champions of faiths. Like bards, they have better martial options than most spell casters but they wear heavier armor and all either get bonus cantrip damage or bonus weapon damage. Clerics have access to strong buffs and healing, some utility, and some direct damage spells.

Clerics have all cleric spells known as the spell levels become available and always have domain spells known for the largest number of available spells prepared. Channel divinity adds additional magical abilities.

Clerics have a wide range of variety from domains.



Druid --

Druids are similar to clerics as divine spell casters with similar spell types but less buffing and more controlling / earlier damage from a nature theme.

Land circle druids combine additional spells prepared via circle spells for almost as many prepared as a cleric and add natural renewal like a wizard's arcane renewal to go with it while moon circle druids add better shape shifting.

Druids are a high utility class between the spell options and wildshape abilities. The better shapes for a moon druid sound good but the low AC tends to go through them fairly quickly and spell casting is restricted while in wildshape (until epic tier levels) so my preference is more spells prepared plus renewal plus the standard wildshape forms for the higher utility option of the two subclasses.



Fighter (eldritch knight) --

These are a combat heavy gish high on the combat with limited gish and includes other similar concepts like arcane archers. The are generally restricted to abjuration and evocation spells with a few that can be of any school.

The progress is a bit slow but they have access to cantrips and learn more spells known than rangers.



Monk --

All monks use "the magic of ki" per the PHB. This is another combat focused class that focuses more on combat than magic, but all monks have some spell-like abilities that run off of ki. Like warlocks, monks recharge on a short rest with ki instead of a long rest.

Open hand monks are like shao lin monks from some movies and TV. Shadow monks cast spells from the shadow arts ability and are like ninja using ninja magic. Elemental monks use ki to cast elemental spells like the last air bender.



Paladin --

Paladins are pretty close to a full spell caster in ability. They have similarities to clerics in that they have buffs, healing, and some offensive spells, and oath spells add to the prepared spells. Paladins focus more on physical combat and less on spells, and also are similar to fighters.

5e spell progression still gives paladins ~2/3's of the spell slots other casters get but allow for similar DC's and paladins have about the same spells prepared as bards or warlocks know and with the swapping ability of preparation casters, and paladins add some spell-like abilities in lay-on-hands, auras, channel divinity, and additional features. It's only those high level spells and slots that other spell casters really have over paladins.

Sometimes people focus on smites but those are often less effective in the long run and nice for a burst, but buffs tend to be commonly cast.



Ranger --

Like druids, rangers run a nature theme and some archery themed spells. Like paladins, they run partial progression. Like bards, they mix skills with magic and combat but heavier on the combat and lighter on the skills and magic.

As far as spell casters go, rangers have some useful options but are defensive the low end without cantrips, rituals, spell preparation, bonus spells, etc. They know less spells than eldritch knights or arcane tricksters, and don't have the short rest recovery of elemental or shadow monks so are closer to that level of caster (and they all get cantrips) where paladins gravitated more towards higher casters.

Ranger advantage over those other lesser casters is faster advancement and 5th-level spells. Definitely a lower-scale caster.



Rogue (arcane trickster) --

Similar to the eldritch knight, this option is slow progression and has school limitations. Arcane tricksters typically have illusions and enchantments with some additional choices. Like bards, arcane tricksters combine magic, skills,and combat but with more skills and combat.

Arcane tricksters focus on using the magehand cantrip and have additional benefits with that cantrip.



Sorcerer --

Sorcerers do have a similar but smaller class list than wizards but the list does include options not available to wizards (notably, enhance ability and earthquake).

The big selling feature on the class is metamagic and it is a nice feature. Font of magic also means sorcerers can cast more spells per day than arcane or natural renewal provide and still have a meta, and without needing a short rest.

The drawback is less spells known than other major spell casters (and paladins) so they may use a more mundane approach to versatility at times.



Warlock --

Pact magic renews one short rest and runs at the highest spell level listed. The standard expectation is 2 short rests per adventuring day, but DM's can vary this often if they choose.

Between spells known, arcanum, and invocations warlocks know about the same number of spells a bard knows or paladin prepares, and given the 2 short rests plus arcanum they aren't far behind in spells per day. They give up a few lower level slots for higher level slots up to 5th-level spell slots and are competitive that way.

The main draw to the class is in the eldritch blast and invocations as a spell damage at-will option. The invocations also include more at-will spell-like abilities, and the class tends to make use of at-will magic more than other spell casters.

Some people will consider arcanum as restrictive but these include options like mass suggestion, forcecage, dominate monster, foresight, and true polymorph so are good options. The fact is, 6th to 9th-level spells are highly restricted for any spell caster so being a bit more restricted is minor, especially in comparison to some of the available options.



Wizard --

Wizards are a high utility class with a very large spell list once the spells are acquired. These aren't as effective as in the past given the 5e approach to spells and ability checks, or alternatives like wildshape or invocations. Wizards don't match up with the spell preparation of clerics or land circle druids, have the same recovery method as land circle druids and cannot match font of magic (if applied), and don't have the punch of metamagic or eldritch blast.

What wizards do have is a strong spell list, recovery options to back it up, a strong ritual mechanic (it's essentially the feat but spells acquired while leveling up facilitates the use), and some good tradition abilities.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-12, 03:08 AM
Wizard --

Wizards are a high utility class with a very large spell list once the spells are acquired. These aren't as effective as in the past given the 5e approach to spells and ability checks, or alternatives like wildshape or invocations. Wizards don't match up with the spell preparation of clerics or land circle druids, have the same recovery method as land circle druids and cannot match font of magic (if applied), and don't have the punch of metamagic or eldritch blast.

What wizards do have is a strong spell list, recovery options to back it up, a strong ritual mechanic (it's essentially the feat but spells acquired while leveling up facilitates the use), and some good tradition abilities.

Most of what you say is fairly accurate, but this one is way off the mark in my humble opinion.

"Wizards don't match up with the spell preparation of clerics or land circle druids": Wizards do not need to prepare ritual spells. Clerics and Druids do. That means that a 20th level Wizard who has all of the ritual spells has a maximum 44 possible different spells they can cast any given day, out of a potential list of nearly 200 spells, vs a maximum possible 35 different spells they can cast as a Cleric, or 33 as a Land Circle Druid, out of lists that are each roughly 100 spells.

"have the same recovery method as land circle druids" for much of the game, yes. You say that like it's a bad thing :smallsmile: At 20th level that provides the equivalent of 14 sorcery points worth of spells, just from that one ability. However it should be noted that at 18th level the Wizard gains an at will first and second level spell, and at 20th level 2 additional 3rd level spell slots (effectively), while the Land Druid does not.

"and cannot match font of magic (if applied)". Until 18th level, no they cannot. However, keeping up with the Wizard would require anywhere between 100% (up until 6th level) and 70% (10 onwards) of the Sorcerer's sorcery points, leaving a maximum of 6 remaining points to spend on metamagic throughout the day.

"and don't have the punch of metamagic or eldritch blast" not much punch if the sorcerer is wasting all their points on spell slots to keep up with the Wizard's recovery mechanic :smallsmile: Keep in mind that, as an example, the Evoker wizard gets +Int bonus to damage with all Evocation spells (something a Sorcerer only gets with the Draconic Bloodline, which means he only has 15 spells known instead of the 25 of the favored soul), gets the equivalent to Careful Spell on *every* evocation spell (which is potentially more than 20 sorcery points worth of metamagic right there), and can, instead of rerolling dice with empowered spell, outright maximize the damage of the spell. Note too that since they get +Int on all evocation spells, that applies to Eldritch Blast as well, something which is not true of the Sorcerer's draconic bloodline (there's no dragons currently that deal force damage), making the Wizard the second best class in the game at dealing damage using Eldritch Blast. Of course that any class can acquire Eldritch Blast through magic initiate, but no other class can deal as much damage with it. Finally, keep in mind that Distant Spell is essentially the same benefit granted by the abilities of a familiar, which are readily available through a ritual on the Wizard spell list.

Put another way, Wizards have the best spell preparation in the game, assuming you know enough spells. They have the second best recovery mechanic in the game, behind only the Warlock and tied with the land druid. They have less flexibility in the applications of the special abilities of their spells (being tied to a particular school), but those abilities are easily as powerful as the effects granted by metamagic. They have the second highest potential at will damage of any caster (behind only the warlock). They have the greatest possible number of spells known of any class, nearly double that of any other classes. They and the Warlock are the only classes to gain at will spellcasting. All of this is complemented by a spellcasting system in 5e that is the first edition ever where characters naturally get *worse* at saving throws as the levels progress (for 4/6 saves, they never rise at all, unless the ability scores themselves are raised, while the save DCs naturally rise at the exact same rate that the saves rise for the other 2) and provides by far the greatest versatility in spells prepared for a Wizard (effectively they have the same spellcasting system Sorcerers had in 3.5, while having more spells *prepared* than Sorcerers had known in that edition), to make what might possibly be the most versatile caster of any edition, albeit with fewer spells cast per day than was previously possible.

Slarg
2015-07-13, 02:09 AM
Sweet, thanks guys, this has helped a ton.

I might have to dabble in some sorcerous characters later, probably a Warlock since they seem to be the Glass Cannons of spellcasting.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-07-13, 03:38 AM
I might have to dabble in some sorcerous characters later, probably a Warlock since they seem to be the Glass Cannons of spellcasting.

Depends what you man by 'glass cannon'... To me, a glass cannon is something with lots of attack and no defense, like wild mages.

I would describe warlocks as more like laser batteries.

PoeticDwarf
2015-07-13, 06:19 AM
GiantOctopodes
"Wizards don't match up with the spell preparation of clerics or land circle druids": Wizards do not need to prepare ritual spells. Clerics and Druids do. That means that a 20th level Wizard who has all of the ritual spells has a maximum 44 possible different spells they can cast any given day, out of a potential list of nearly 200 spells, vs a maximum possible 35 different spells they can cast as a Cleric, or 33 as a Land Circle Druid, out of lists that are each roughly 100 spells.

As you said, but the wizard can choose his spells from a way bigger list AND they can write spells in their spellbook...