So I bought icewind dale (with heart of winter mode) and I have no idea how to play.

[Reprimand]

Anyone want to help me learn the basics?

I know it's basically 2e D&D but it's way different in terms of mechanics plus it's less turn based and more pause combat to issue new orders.

[Cespenar]

What's exactly the problem?

The attack speeds are (if I'm not mistaken) calibrated to normal D&D turns. So, if you have 2 attacks per round, your guy will make 1 attack every 3 seconds of real game time automatically after you order him to attack.

If you like, you can go into options and check "end of turn" clause for auto-pauses, for a closer similarity to a turn based system.

Combat system is classic (Your thaco) - (enemy AC) = minimum number to score a hit.

[Reprimand]

so thac0 is just bab but backwards?

and I didn't know about the auto pause thing sounds handy.

[Douglas]

so thac0 is just bab but backwards?
Sort of, yes. It determines your chance to hit, and low is better. Similarly, AC is backwards - low is better. Take the attacker's thac0 and subtract the target's AC, and that's the number the attacker needs on the die in order to hit.

Note, if you ever get a magic item that gives a luck bonus, KEEP IT! The way luck bonuses work in this game is that every individual die you roll is increased by the luck bonus, up to the die's maximum, and treated as if that was the die's natural result. Have +1 luck and roll a natural 1 on an attack? It was "actually" a natural 2 and therefore does not trigger the automatic miss rule. Roll a 19? The +1 luck makes that a 20, and it's a "natural" 20 so it's a crit. Cast a Fireball for 10d6 damage? All 10 of those d6s get increased by 1 each (up to their maximum of 6), for 8.3 more average damage. This is an extremely powerful mechanic.

[Reprimand]

Sort of, yes. It determines your chance to hit, and low is better. Similarly, AC is backwards - low is better. Take the attacker's thac0 and subtract the target's AC, and that's the number the attacker needs on the die in order to hit.

Note, if you ever get a magic item that gives a luck bonus, KEEP IT! The way luck bonuses work in this game is that every individual die you roll is increased by the luck bonus, up to the die's maximum, and treated as if that was the die's natural result. Have +1 luck and roll a natural 1 on an attack? It was "actually" a natural 2 and therefore does not trigger the automatic miss rule. Roll a 19? The +1 luck makes that a 20, and it's a "natural" 20 so it's a crit. Cast a Fireball for 10d6 damage? All 10 of those d6s get increased by 1 each (up to their maximum of 6), for 8.3 more average damage. This is an extremely powerful mechanic.

Luck bonuses sound really broken o.o

Any ideas for a first timer party?

I kind of want to run a human dual classer as one member and let him soak most of the xp

My dad introduced me to this game when I was young (I was never good at it) and he could solo heart of winter mode with a level 1 ranger

[Cheesegear]

Any ideas for a first timer party?

Humans, Half-Elves, Elves. In that order. Gnomes and Dwarfs are pretty bad.

If Human, your intent is to Dual-Class. Always.
If Elf or Half-Elf, create a Multi-Class. Always.
If you must take a Halfling, it's a Fighter/Thief.

There is more than enough XP in the game for this to be viable. The only thing not multi-classing gets you, is a slight early-game bonus, which quickly dissipates around Chapter 2-3. Since the game has linear XP, if you choose for your Humans to Dual around Level 6, and shaft them back to Level 1, they'll still be earning 'Level 6' levels of XP, and you'll quickly make your levels back in a few fights. The longer you take to Dual (say, around Level 9), the harder it is for your other characters to carry your newly-dualled class at that stage of the game.

Unless you plan on playing the game with the same party four or five times (and hitting the Level Cap of 30!), you don't need to power game, and you should probably Dual around Level 6 at the latest.

The only characters that get out of Multi-/Dual-Classing is Paladins and Bards. Always bring a Bard (Half-Elf, for the bonus to Pickpokcet). You can take or leave Paladins, but, Paladins are pretty good, even if they can't Dual-Class.

[Reprimand]

So for a full 6 person party were looking at like

two Human Fighters to class up into thief and into mage cleric via dual classing I want to max out some humans!.

What are the most optimal levels to dual class at for each class I know fighter 8 is good for 4 ranks in weapon skill other than that I'm lost. and I'd have to use cleric weapon restrictions right?

and half elf fighter/thief & cleric/mage

Elf Fighter/Mage and Fighter/Cleric?

[Cheesegear]

Human Fighter > Thief
Human Fighter > Mage or Cleric

Thief > Fighter is better.
The class you Dual to is going to be the class you're stuck with for the rest of the game, and Thiefs after Level 9, tend to start running out of good proficiencies and there's no point in levelling certain Thief Skills, so...Yeah. Go Thief > Fighter, it's better, and you should quit Thief at Level 9 or Level 12.


What are the most optimal levels to dual class at for each class I know fighter 8 is good for 4 ranks in weapon skill other than that I'm lost

And you don't even have that right, because it's Fighter 6. For Clerics, yes, you want to get out at Fighter 6 or Fighter 9.


half elf fighter/thief
Half Elf cleric/mage

The Fighter/Thief should be a full Elf, or a Halfling.
Cleric/Mages are not very good in this game. Drop this character for a Bard.


Elf Fighter/Mage
Elf Fighter/Cleric?

An Elf Fighter/Mage is one of the best characters in the game.
Drop the second Elf, make him Human, and go Ranger 6 > Cleric.

[LibraryOgre]

So, I generally don't go with a full party... I lean more towards 4 or 5 people; it spreads out the XP into smaller piles, and you're usually well enough equipped that you can handle anything a party of 6 would. I like to have a Paladin, a Ranger/Cleric, a Fighter/Thief, a Mage, and a Bard. Sometimes I'll change the Ranger/Cleric for a Fighter/Druid, giving access to Druid spells... I can't recall if Druid/Mage is valid, but it's a good choice. Because of the nature of 2e multiclassing, multiclassing usually only leaves you one level behind a single class... a bit more of a penalty for a mage, and can make it worthwhile to have your mage be a human dual class thief/mage... dump lots of points in FART and OL and make yourself a decent box-man to handle traps, then switch over to mage with more HP and better weapons.

If you want to get really cheap, create a single character, run them through the opening of Heart of Winter (up until you're going to go to the Isle of the Dead), and export them back for the main game. You'll get TONS of XP, enough to get close to 9th level sometimes, and can start the game as experienced adventurers.

[Reprimand]

And you don't even have that right

I appreciate the rest of your input but I feel this was an unnecessary jab at me.

I've never played 2E so I don't know a lot of this stuff and I was going in completely blind trying to figure out this as I went and turned to the playground for help not to be ridiculed for my lack of knowledge.

The rest of your post however was very constructive and I thank you for that.

@mark hall isn't heart of winter mode a new campaign that piggybacks off of the expirence of the previous adventure? Is the beginning harder or easier?

I can't even beat the bugs in the tavern in the main storyline with one character.

EDIT: I was also under the impression based on the rules you could continue to dual class through more than 2 class dispite what the wording implies or is that a munchkin thing?

[Calemyr]

EDIT: I was also under the impression based on the rules you could continue to dual class through more than 2 class dispite what the wording implies or is that a munchkin thing?

Half-elves can multiclass into three classes (FMT, FCT, FMC), but everyone else is limited to two.

[LibraryOgre]

@mark hall isn't heart of winter mode a new campaign that piggybacks off of the expirence of the previous adventure? Is the beginning harder or easier?

In theory, yes; the timeline gets a little muddled. However, the beginning part of the Heart of Winter module has almost no combat. You go, have a few conversations around town, then head out to the Barbarian Camp for more conversations. The fighting parts don't really start until you go out to the Island (though there may be some fights you can pick beforehand; I don't recall). In the course of this, you get hundreds of thousands of XP, taking a single 1st level character up to high levels. You can then export the character, and import them into the main game, complete with their levels.



I can't even beat the bugs in the tavern in the main storyline with one character.

Depends on your proficiencies. It's not hard, you just have to focus and get a little lucky.



EDIT: I was also under the impression based on the rules you could continue to dual class through more than 2 class dispite what the wording implies or is that a munchkin thing?

Usual 2e rules, you are correct. As implemented in the Infinity Engine, you can only dual-class into valid multiclass combos... so you can't be a Paladin/Cleric, because there are no multiclass Paladins.

You MIGHT be able to do Fighter/Mage/Thief, because that's a valid combination, or Fighter/Cleric/Mage, but I haven't tried it. Since it requires insanely good stats, it's not been worth my while.

[Cheesegear]

IIRC, best characters (not in any order);

Human
Paladin
Fighter > Druid
Fighter > Mage
Ranger > Cleric
Thief > Fighter
Thief > Mage

Half-Elf
Bard
Any Multi-Class of a good Human Dual-Class, works too (i.e; Ranger/Cleric)

Elf
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Mage
Fighter/Thief/Mage
(Basically, be a Fighter, for good Bow and Long Sword access, avoid Clerics and Druids 'cause they can't use Bows)

Halfling
Fighter/Thief

The biggest problem with making a 'Power Party' is where do you get your early-game healing from? Starting as a Human spellcaster is terrible, because you should never Dual away from a casting class, but you wont want to Dual to your healing class before Level 6 or so. That's where the Half-Elven Ranger/Cleric comes in, since that's the only character in the 'Power Party' that starts the game with healing spells.

[Calemyr]

I should point out that, if you're playing the Enhanced Edition, the Ranger/Cleric isn't nearly so awesome anymore. The major draw of it was that ranger used to unlock all druid spells (even if you never got any spell slots to use them), so a ranger/cleric got ALL divine spells. Now it only unlocks spell levels as you obtain them, meaning the very awesome druid spells the R/C used to bring to the table aren't available any more. There are work-arounds, of course. If you make your R/C in BG1EE and export it, it will start with all levels unlocked just like the good old days (BG2 has the same fix as IWD, but it doesn't matter enough in BG1). There's also (apparently) a config option that allows you to go back to the old ways, but I've only heard of it and don't know what it actually is. Of course, if you're playing old-school IWD, this isn't a factor. In IWDEE, however, a Ranger/Cleric just brings a few extra things to the table compared to the fighter (two points in TWF, access to ranger high level abilities, a couple extra spells, and the always welcome option of stealth) at the expense of a slower growth rate (ranger requires more XP per level than a fighter). Still a great trade, but nowhere near as superior as the old R/C.

I don't know if it's EE only or not, but one thing worth noting is the bard. Most people here will scoff at the idea, but bards are actually pretty cool - particularly the ones that get the normal bard song ability (true class or possibly Blade). Unlike BG/BG2, the IWD bard gets access to a number of songs that they can choose from as they level. The songs range from pretty basic to downright awesome. Even the Skald's "Five fighters worth ten" song gets one-upped in the later levels, and there's also a song that grants the party regeneration. That's right - if you can afford to stand in one place for several minutes, a bard can bring the party to full health without using any per-day assets or expendable goods, allowing you to focus on a more offensive standing. And that's on top of their other advantages such as lore, pickpocket, magic, and weapon/armor proficiency. They're not a dual or multi-class, but I wouldn't discount them instantly for that. Just be sure to focus your spells on things that take advantage of their unusually high caster levels (i.e. rogue growth rate and single-class status). Things like Melf's Minute Meteors and Chromatic Sphere and even Magic Missile are dangerous things in a bard's spellbook.

[LibraryOgre]

I have solo'd the game with a bard and a paladin. A later attempt to solo the game with a druid got cut short by boredom.