Ranger player really wants a beast pet

[Nonah_Me]

...but the problem is she's already level nine Hunter Ranger.

I see a couple of solutions to this, and have given her the option of a couple of them:

- Allow her to replace her archetype this one time (we're at a six month time skip, so it's more plausible than it happening in the middle of a tense crisis.)
Q about this: She got excited about the idea of riding her companion. She's a wood elf, pretty waifish. She's also an archer. Would allowing her to ride it break much?

- Allow her to use Animal Handling to get a pet (without Beastmaster features)
Q about this one: how would she control it? Animal Handling every time she wants it to do something? With this option, I think riding a medium creature is right out. Also how do you keep your pet - who wouldn't get prof bonuses to the various things a Beastmaster companion would - alive?

She's not a terribly focused player (doesn't use her spells at all, really, mainly focusing on when to use Sharpshooter) so the addition of a pet to manage has me concerned, but she likes the idea and I'm loath to say no.

Thoughts?

[DracoKnight]

...but the problem is she's already level nine Hunter Ranger.

I see a couple of solutions to this, and have given her the option of a couple of them:

- Allow her to replace her archetype this one time (we're at a six month time skip, so it's more plausible than it happening in the middle of a tense crisis.)
Q about this: She got excited about the idea of riding her companion. She's a wood elf, pretty waifish. She's also an archer. Would allowing her to ride it break much?

- Allow her to use Animal Handling to get a pet (without Beastmaster features)
Q about this one: how would she control it? Animal Handling every time she wants it to do something? With this option, I think riding a medium creature is right out. Also how do you keep your pet - who wouldn't get prof bonuses to the various things a Beastmaster companion would - alive?

She's not a terribly focused player (doesn't use her spells at all, really, mainly focusing on when to use Sharpshooter) so the addition of a pet to manage has me concerned, but she likes the idea and I'm loath to say no.

Thoughts?

The DM has final say, but as a DM, I might POTENTIALLY allow her to take BOTH archetypes - at the cost of her spells. That's how I honestly feel the Spell-less Ranger should have been done. This might break the game, I would playtest it if I were you.

[Easy_Lee]

Archetype swap should be fine.

[DracoKnight]

Archetype swap should be fine.

Probably this would indeed be the best. I'm probably far too lenient/free with which rules can be broken at my table :P

[SharkForce]

animal friendship?

there are plenty of fairly tough beasts (at least, after you give them barding) that could survive at level 9. since you're presumably looking for something that can survive at later levels, you may wish to give a younger version of the creature that can gradually mature.

tyrannosaurus rex and mammoth are probably the most plausible ridable animals (giant apes are probably more useful and with barding more tough, though you can't use animal friendship on them because they're too high intelligence).

you can also give some degree of progression by letting him get better barding over time. especially if enchanted barding is available at some point.

the main method of keeping it alive, though, should probably come from the mounted combat feat.

(alternately, allowing the player to switch archetypes is perfectly fine as well).

[PhantomRenegade]

Make sure she knows what she's getting into if you let her change archetype, the Beastmaster is a really subpar choice and i might be jarring going from the hunter to the beastmaster.

[Once a Fool]

In your particular case, especially given the player's lack of focus, I would run the beast as an NPC and have her use Animal Handling only when she wants to give a direct command.

[Nonah_Me]

In your particular case, especially given the player's lack of focus, I would run the beast as an NPC and have her use Animal Handling only when she wants to give a direct command.

I would do this, but we've got six players (in addition to myself) already so remembering what the animal is doing at any point in time is going to be difficult.

I'm leaning towards the suggestion of giving both archetypes and subtracting spells. It'd be special for her; the goddess she follows has basically chosen to invest all of her spellcasting ability into a magical bond with a creature. Likely a raptor of some kind, with a special saddle to allow her to ride it (like an ostrich). I plan on putting in a drawback, however, in that while riding the raptor the both of them are really susceptible reflex difficulties, so they'll take disadvantage on reflex saves when she's riding him. Hopefully she'll take the opportunity cost of always ridinng him into account.

[coredump]

If she just wants a 'pet' that she can ride.... just give her one. Let her get a mount to ride (Probably CR 1/2 or so) that she develops a 'special bond' with. Sort of like horses on some westerns. It learns to understand some of her simple commands, either verbal or gestures..... and works well with her. If you dont' make it really powerful, then it can be a lot of fun, without having to worry about changing archtypes, or combining archtypes, or whatever.

[EvilAnagram]

Allow her to replace her archetype this one time (we're at a six month time skip, so it's more plausible than it happening in the middle of a tense crisis.)
I'm against this on a completely instinctual level. I haven't dedicated any time or effort toward justifying this response, so you should probably ignore it.


Q about this: She got excited about the idea of riding her companion. She's a wood elf, pretty waifish. She's also an archer. Would allowing her to ride it break much?
If you're going by Beast Master rules, it doesn't exactly break the game combat-wise, but it breaks the notion of carry weight. Also, it would kind of be ridiculous for a grown elf to be riding around on a mastiff.


- Allow her to use Animal Handling to get a pet (without Beastmaster features)
Q about this one: how would she control it? Animal Handling every time she wants it to do something? With this option, I think riding a medium creature is right out. Also how do you keep your pet - who wouldn't get prof bonuses to the various things a Beastmaster companion would - alive?
I like this option. I would have her form a more natural bond than you see with the Beast Master. DM controlled, but you can give it a command as an action. You could probably make it a higher CR animal than the Beast Master gets to make up for getting no proficiency boost.


She's not a terribly focused player (doesn't use her spells at all, really, mainly focusing on when to use Sharpshooter) so the addition of a pet to manage has me concerned, but she likes the idea and I'm loath to say no.
Sometimes, an idea that gets players excited can help to focus them. I say let her have one.

[Giant2005]

I'm leaning towards the suggestion of giving both archetypes and subtracting spells. It'd be special for her; the goddess she follows has basically chosen to invest all of her spellcasting ability into a magical bond with a creature. Likely a raptor of some kind, with a special saddle to allow her to ride it (like an ostrich). I plan on putting in a drawback, however, in that while riding the raptor the both of them are really susceptible reflex difficulties, so they'll take disadvantage on reflex saves when she's riding him. Hopefully she'll take the opportunity cost of always ridinng him into account.

If you want a Raptor (Or the dinosaur that the Jurassic Park movies based their Raptor on), I made a homebrew version which will suit her well enough. Although it would need a special saddle like you said to allow a Medium creature or mount it. Also, due to the Errata's Beastmaster nerf, she wouldn't be able to use the Multi-Attack until level 11.
Anyway, here it is:

http://s8.postimg.org/nglx4yrc5/Deinonychus.png

[Maxilian]

I don't think you should give her both archetypes, why not let her get a pet based around:

-Animal Friendship to charm it and get the feat: Magic Initiate (Beast Bond - Druid cantrip- )

Beast Bond
"You establish a telepathic link with one beast you touch that is friendly to you or charmed by you. The spell fails if the beast’s Intelligence is 4 or higher. Until the spell ends, the link is active while you and the beast are within line of sight of each other. Through the link, the beast can understand your telepathic messages to it, and it can telepathically communicate simple emotions and concepts back to you. While the link is active, the beast gains advantage on attack rolls against any creature within 5 feet of you that you can see. "

[Slipperychicken]

- Allow her to use Animal Handling to get a pet (without Beastmaster features)
Q about this one: how would she control it? Animal Handling every time she wants it to do something? With this option, I think riding a medium creature is right out. Also how do you keep your pet - who wouldn't get prof bonuses to the various things a Beastmaster companion would - alive?


Sounds about right. It should pretty quickly understand the ideas of "follow master" and "maul whatever seems to be hurting the master", but anything more nuanced than that (or controlling when either of those things happens) should require checks.

Commands like "wait here" or "find this scent" would probably be DC 10, "follow someone else without mauling him" or "be quiet" should be like DC 15, "stop mauling him" is probably DC 20, and "take him down without mauling him" is probably DC 25. If he casts Speak with Animals or has a similar effect, then it shouldn't require a check. These checks would probably have disadvantage in combat or a similarly chaotic or life-threatening situation, or advantage when the ranger is within range to physically handle the creature. Simple commands ("kill this specific enemy", or "use your claws") would probably be a bonus action, complex commands an action or more, and without orders the animal will default to "follow master, menace anything that seems suspicious, maul hostiles, drag master out of danger if he's KO'd".

Also, I'd be inclined to make him roleplay the process of seeking out an animal companion, perhaps rescuing one from some danger (i.e. lion being bitten by a snake, as in Sir Ywain and the Lion), or similarly endearing himself to the beast before it can follow him. Obviously, failing to endear himself to the beast means that animal won't be his companion.

[The Shadowdove]

I don't see the problem with finding an animal and creating a bond with it over time.

Through both experiences and the animal handling related skills.

It wouldn't get any of the beast master bonuses to it's stats, likely, but it'd be a good addition/role play bonus.

The same way someone can buy a horse and just... Have a horse. Likely you can take some of your rest or downtime to see to their needs and have them recognize you as a master/and or friend.

Also, some animals are smarter than others.. Some have wisdom higher than others. I imagine the dm may consider incorporating this into how they act/perceive things.

The dm may even incorporate a way to have them learn basic "tricks" or "commands" over time.
Perhaps they begin gaining experience as a party member and level alongside you guys?

I may even say I'd use some of the loyalty rules from the dungeon masters guide and apply it to an animal.


What do you guys think?

[SharkForce]

Sounds about right. It should pretty quickly understand the ideas of "follow master" and "maul whatever seems to be hurting the master", but anything more nuanced than that (or controlling when either of those things happens) should require checks.

Commands like "wait here" or "find this scent" would probably be DC 10, "follow someone else without mauling him" or "be quiet" should be like DC 15, "stop mauling him" is probably DC 20, and "take him down without mauling him" is probably DC 25. If he casts Speak with Animals or has a similar effect, then it shouldn't require a check. These checks would probably have disadvantage in combat or a similarly chaotic or life-threatening situation, or advantage when the ranger is within range to physically handle the creature. Simple commands ("kill this specific enemy", or "use your claws") would probably be a bonus action, complex commands an action or more, and without orders the animal will default to "follow master, menace anything that seems suspicious, maul hostiles, drag master out of danger if he's KO'd".

Also, I'd be inclined to make him roleplay the process of seeking out an animal companion, perhaps rescuing one from some danger (i.e. lion being bitten by a snake, as in Sir Ywain and the Lion), or similarly endearing himself to the beast before it can follow him. Obviously, failing to endear himself to the beast means that animal won't be his companion.

DC 25 to get a trained animal to attack but not kill is ridiculous. a level 17 ranger with maxed attribute would need a 14 or better to succeed. clearly too high.

the starting point for DC at 10 is fine, but you should not progress the DCs up by 5 at a time like that. it should not take a world-class expert to get the animal to do something it has been trained to do.

[EvilAnagram]

DC 25 to get a trained animal to attack but not kill is ridiculous. a level 17 ranger with maxed attribute would need a 14 or better to succeed. clearly too high.

the starting point for DC at 10 is fine, but you should not progress the DCs up by 5 at a time like that. it should not take a world-class expert to get the animal to do something it has been trained to do.

I would probably start it out with a DC 15, then lower it as the animal becomes better trained over time. Obviously, more difficult tasks or newer commands would have higher DCs.

[SharkForce]

I would probably start it out with a DC 15, then lower it as the animal becomes better trained over time. Obviously, more difficult tasks or newer commands would have higher DCs.

a difficult DC for training isn't too bad. a difficult DC for getting the animal to follow a command you've trained it to do is silly, unless you've been treating the animal badly or it otherwise doesn't want to do what you want it to do.

[ruy343]

Were I in your shoes, I would approach it like the Find Familiar spell, but I would refluff it as a 2nd or 3rd level spell to allow for a more powerful familiar. The familiar would take no bonuses like AC or save boosts based on proficiency this way, which isn't a bad choice.

Find familiar on its own could be the solution as well; how large of a beast do they want? Is a hawk acceptable? If so, then there's no need to make any severe changes to rules; just give them the find familiar spell!

[foobar1969]

If you're going by Beast Master rules, it doesn't exactly break the game combat-wise, but it breaks the notion of carry weight. Also, it would kind of be ridiculous for a grown elf to be riding around on a mastiff.
Well of course that would be ridiculous. Everyone knows that elves ride wolves!
http://elfquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Elfquest-group.jpg


Sometimes, an idea that gets players excited can help to focus them. I say let her have one.
Agree.

[Slipperychicken]

DC 25 to get a trained animal to attack but not kill is ridiculous. a level 17 ranger with maxed attribute would need a 14 or better to succeed. clearly too high.

the starting point for DC at 10 is fine, but you should not progress the DCs up by 5 at a time like that. it should not take a world-class expert to get the animal to do something it has been trained to do.

Yeah that makes sense, perhaps we could drop nonlethal takedowns to DC 20, and have sufficient training in a task reduce relevant DCs by 5.

[PoeticDwarf]

...but the problem is she's already level nine Hunter Ranger.

I see a couple of solutions to this, and have given her the option of a couple of them:

- Allow her to replace her archetype this one time (we're at a six month time skip, so it's more plausible than it happening in the middle of a tense crisis.)
Q about this: She got excited about the idea of riding her companion. She's a wood elf, pretty waifish. She's also an archer. Would allowing her to ride it break much?

- Allow her to use Animal Handling to get a pet (without Beastmaster features)
Q about this one: how would she control it? Animal Handling every time she wants it to do something? With this option, I think riding a medium creature is right out. Also how do you keep your pet - who wouldn't get prof bonuses to the various things a Beastmaster companion would - alive?

She's not a terribly focused player (doesn't use her spells at all, really, mainly focusing on when to use Sharpshooter) so the addition of a pet to manage has me concerned, but she likes the idea and I'm loath to say no.

Thoughts?
Let her replace her archetype, and give her a constricer snake where she can ride on.

[Tenmujiin]

One option is to just give her the paladin's summon mount spell.

I would give her the options in this thread to choose from:

Swap archetype

Swap spells to get both archetypes (this is probably the best option for this specific player based on the information you've given, and it shouldn't be overpowered, the spell-less ranger gains a similar amount of power to the battle-master fighter archetype at the cost of spells and beast-master is generally considered quite weak).

Give her the paladin spell with a custom mount, anything CR 1/2 or less should be fine.

Give her a companion she can control with handle animal/spells.

Regardless of which option is chosen you should probably build the companion as a custom creature using the CR rules in the DMG to make sure it is something she is happy with (I would do this for beast-master and custom paladin mounts regardless)

[Steampunkette]

Kill the spells, give her both Archetypes. It's a similar power level, overall, and more interesting to her.

[Tenmujiin]

Kill the spells, give her both Archetypes. It's a similar power level, overall, and more interesting to her.

Basically this, from the sounds of it she doesn't care about the spells so this is just bringing her up to the power level of the other players. I would still let her chose to swap archetypes if she prefers though.

[Inevitability]

Realize that for 200 GP you can purchase a friggin' elephant. It shouldn't be too hard to just find a place where the ranger can get herself a nice pet, especially if it's happening during a 6-month skip.

[Whyrocknodie]

Have a comedy schtick where her beast companion dies in an interesting way during the prelude to each session!

Unless you like the player. Then don't do that.