Let's turn objects into weapons!(stats)

[The Shadowdove]

I'm curious as to what kind of base damages certain items may have were they used as weapons.

I think I recall the books stating somewhere that objects are simply 1d4... I could be wrong, I'm not the expert you guys are.

But let's pretend that didn't apply... What would things like .... A chain, sharpened masterwork shovels, hoes, picks, machetes, wrenches, screwdrivers, meat cleavers, benches, a rope with a horseshoe tied to the end, crowbar, flag/warstandards, typical two handed wood cutting axes, frying pans, horseshoes as a throwing weapon, rolling pins, normal hammers, wine bottles, ale mugs, sword scabbards, rocks, wagon wheels, buckets full of tar/rocks/lamp oil, a sack of bricks, things like this!!!!!!! Have as its damage, reach, special whatever stats?


Submit a few with the possible in game stats. Let's see what you come up with.

I'm excited to see.

Maybe I want a farmer background who uses a shovel or scythe as his main weapon!

Looking forward to it

-Dove

[Flashy]

Apart from the machete (which I'd probably just class as a shortsword) those are definitely all improvised weapons dealing 1d4 damage. You'll also need the tavern brawler feat to be able to add your proficiency modifier to attack rolls.

If the goal is to create a character who fights with farm tools I'd just refluff selections off the weapons table. Calling a greataxe a scythe changes nothing about the game while still letting you build the character you want.

[Thisguy_]

I was under the impression that objects as improvised weapons were up to the DM, and 1d4 if the DM couldn't determine a similar vanilla weapon. I'd personally let that chain, provided it's long enough, be used as an improvised whip with the 1d4 slashing damage.

It would be hella difficult to cut anyone with a shovel. I'd severely limit the ability of a player to cut or pierce the flesh of a creature with a shovel, but it would make an excellent improvised club (1d4 bludgeoning).

The scythe has been reported time and time again as a horrid choice of weapon, as the curve of the blade works against attempts to reach out and touch someone with the pointy end. To that effect, I'd impose a penalty for using it this way (likely disadvantage), but would still permit its use as an improvised short sword: 1d6 piercing. Ah, finally a non-1d4 for you.

Depending on whether the scythe is very small (I have used hoes and other farming tools before, provided a scythe is similar, it should be quite heavy) I would hesitate to call it a Dex or Finesse weapon. A sickle is in fact a vanilla weapon: 1d4 slashing light weapon. I would, as a player, prefer a sickle to a scythe unless I was flanking and did not expect a long fight. It's hard to swing a full-sized farming tool around.

The most immediate thought I have when you say "Pickaxe" and "Weapon" in the same sentence is "improvised War Pick." This one is an easy choice: it's a 1d8 piercing martial weapon, and the penalty of it being an improvised weapon covers the fact that it is not normally for use as a weapon.

EDIT: Ah, and as far as the rope tied to a horseshoe, I couldn't in good conscience call it a flail unless it was a hell of a horseshoe. But tie enough horseshoes to it and you can flog people silly with it: that one would certainly also be 1d8. Just one horseshoe would hurt, but I'd likely call that less than or equal to 1d4. All of this is bludgeoning damage. So I'd say the rare and clever implement is a non-1d4, possibly by RAW - I'd have to give my DMG a read.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Personally, I like the RAW (all improvised weapons are 1d4, damage type determined by DM). It's clean and simple, and ensures that having real weapons is always beneficial.

The only exception I make is that an improvised weapon wielded in two hands is d6. So, my houserules currently list these as examples:


Pitchfork: 1d4 piercing, versatile (d6)
Scythe (Civilian*): 1d6 slashing, two-handed
Sledgehammer: 1d6 bludgeoning, two-handed


* I already have War Scythe as an exotic weapon.

[EvilAnagram]

I believe the rule is that you can use any item that is similar to a weapon as that weapon. So, a pitchfork can be used as a trident. The Tavern Brawler feat allows you to use other objects as weapons for 1d4 damage.

[Thisguy_]

I believe the rule is that you can use any item that is similar to a weapon as that weapon.

I'm pretty sure that this is right, though you're not allowed to add your proficiency bonus to an improvised weapon, but again, I'd have to check.

[Once a Fool]

I'm pretty sure that this is right, though you're not allowed to add your proficiency bonus to an improvised weapon, but again, I'd have to check.

I interpret that to mean that treating an improvised weapon as a specific weapon means that a relevant proficiency does apply (because you are now treating it as a non-improvised weapon).

Also, I second the simple "1-handed = 1d4, 2-handed = 1d6" structure.

[EvilAnagram]

Also, I second the simple "1-handed = 1d4, 2-handed = 1d6" structure.

I think that should be up to DM fiat. After all, a wine bottle shouldn't be two-handable. A chair? Sure.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I interpret that to mean that treating an improvised weapon as a specific weapon means that a relevant proficiency does apply (because you are now treating it as a non-improvised weapon).


Yes, you can apply proficiency bonus if you're proficient in something similar. I wouldn't change the damage dice though, because civilian tools (and whatever else) won't be made to the same standards as proper weapons.

[Thisguy_]

Yes, you can apply proficiency bonus if you're proficient in something similar. I wouldn't change the damage dice though, because civilian tools (and whatever else) won't be made to the same standards as proper weapons.

I am not sure of the precise wording of the rules, but I think I prefer the 1d4/1d6 system and application of your bonus versus mimicking damage dice but not using proficiency bonus. After all, even with Tavern Brawler, an idiot with a chair should not be the same as a trained mace-user when it comes to level of threat.

[MrStabby]

I do think there is scope for a little more... Tavern brawler can represent as much additional skill as another feat gives.

I would like to see burning torches, poison vines etc. being used for additional damage types.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I do think there is scope for a little more... Tavern brawler can represent as much additional skill as another feat gives.

I would like to see burning torches, poison vines etc. being used for additional damage types.

You do have a point. Tavern Brawler isn't powerful enough to compete with other feats at the moment... and it's such an iconic style for an adventurer!

Torches, of course, are covered by the RAW. Your average burning branch isn't really solid enough to do even d4 damage. I would definitely allow a metal brazier-like thing or a lantern to do d4 fire damage though, with club/mace proficiency applying (which is almost everyone). Poison vines sounds like whip proficiency - and it might be suitable to give them reach as well.

[HoarsHalberd]

Pg. 147, an improvised weapon that is similar to another weapon (example table leg-club) can be treated as such. At DM. Discretion players with proficiency in the weapon may apply it. (I'd probably ask for both tavern brawler and proficiency in the weapon.)
Pg.148 an improvised weapon that is not like any statted weapon is given a d4. Thrown ones have a range of 20/60.

RAW for all to see. (Paraphrased for obvious legal reasons.)

[Dimolyth]

You do have a point. Tavern Brawler isn't powerful enough to compete with other feats at the moment... and it's such an iconic style for an adventurer!

Tavern Brawler is a great feat, and certanly one of the best half-feats in play. Crush your chear on that guys` head and have a grapple check for free... for exchange of +1 to stat? I`ll take twice, please.

[WampDiesel]

Pg. 147, an improvised weapon that is similar to another weapon (example table leg-club) can be treated as such. At DM. Discretion players with proficiency in the weapon may apply it. (I'd probably ask for both tavern brawler and proficiency in the weapon.)
Pg.148 an improvised weapon that is not like any statted weapon is given a d4. Thrown ones have a range of 20/60.

RAW for all to see. (Paraphrased for obvious legal reasons.)

What if you are using a humanoid as your improvised weapon? I am currently playing a goliath barbarian (nicknamed "Innbreaker") who will be picking up tavern brawler for her first feat. We rolled stats so after the feat I will have a 20 STR. I can lift up 1200 lbs above my head as a goliath (30 * 20 * 2) and I am carrying less than 150 lbs of gear. Therefore I can lift anything up to 1050 pounds.

The way I see it going down is first round hit with unarmed strike and establish grapple as a bonus action. The second round toss (or just swing if they are close enough) the unfortunate enemy at their friend (since I can use anything as an improvised weapon) and if I hit, move and establish a new grapple as a bonus action.

So I have two questions about this:

If I pick up someone and use them as a throwing weapon, does the enemy being thrown get damage as well? They are flying up to 60 feet (RAW) after all (and I can cancel the disadvantage by attacking recklessly).

Also if I pick up a lightly armored halfling and toss them at their friend I can see it doing only 1d4+STR damage. However if I pick up that human fighter in full plate (who still should not weigh more than 400 pounds with gear) should it not do more damage by falling on something than the tiny halfling? I could see a full-plate armored human being used in a similar fashion to a greatmaul (hit your enemies with something heavy really hard) giving it up to 2d6+STR damage bludgeoning?

I don't care if I get optimal damage out of this scenario or not, I just enjoy the fact that my character will be proficient in "dwarf-tossing." Unfortunately there are no dwarves in our party. I guess I will just have to find one so I can toss it.

Also I have already posed this question to our DM and he told me he would "give it some thought" as the scenario has yet to come up in the game but it will very soon. Therefore I figured I would ask what the playground thought about this scenario.

[Slipperychicken]

I believe the 1d4 and 20/60 range is intended for items such as books and chairs, which bear no resemblance to weapons and are ineffective when used that way. A table leg is explicitly called out as using the stats of a club (1d6) and is treated as such for proficiencies and other spells and features. Torches are similar, but deal 1+strength fire damage by default. A thrown stone, similarly, would surely have a range greater than 20/60.

[Ninja_Prawn]

A thrown stone, similarly, would surely have a range greater than 20/60.

For reference, a Magic Stone, when thrown, has a range of 60/60.

The internet reckons an average person can throw a baseball 250 to 300 feet (though presumably the range at which you could hurt someone with it is much shorter).

[Safety Sword]

...but deal 1+strength fire damage by default.

This one always seemed odd to me.

It always struck me (pun intended) that it should do 1 fire damage and the rest in bludgeoning...

It burns more because you are stronger?

[WampDiesel]

This one always seemed odd to me.

It always struck me (pun intended) that it should do 1 fire damage and the rest in bludgeoning...

It burns more because you are stronger?

You are able to shove the burning torch harder into the enemies skin thus making them contact the hot sticky tar keeping the torch lit longer?


However this brings up the question re: above about using other humanoids as improvised weapons...

If I toss a willing halfling with a lit torch into an enemy does he do 1d4+STR (mine) bludgeoning damage and then 1d4+STR (halfling) fire damage, assuming both attacks hit (my throw and the halflings torch swing)?

I think I might have just developed an amazing clown car ambush tactic. Now where does one go about finding a caravan of acrobatic (and slightly suicidal) halflings?