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Hanuman
2015-07-12, 05:29 PM
I've been working on a balancepoint to try and make armor item necessity redundant for something similar to a melee midliner class.

I'd like some feedback and thought process around making armor items redundant, PEACH :smallsmile:

Basically, at level 1 the class gets 2 + 1/2 char level NAC that doesn't stack with armor or shield bonus, and gave them no proficiencies, and considered this mechanic to be fairly free in terms of opportunity cost and balancing.

At level 7 the class replaces NAC with an equal amount of deflection AC (still non-stacking), which is balanced as a substantial advantage.

For a small cost (gp) the class unlocks an option to reduce or negate the armor check penalties associated with armor and shields and such as long as they don't grant an advantage, making them viable to use outside of proficiency, in case you wanted to use the magic shield, ect.

Thoughts? Similar scalings?

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-12, 10:37 PM
It has to start higher. Getting +11 AC at level 20 is all well and good, but have fun surviving level 1 with an AC of 12+Dex as a melee character. Starting at 5 and adding 1 per 3 levels would be better, and ends at the same total value (+11).

Also, it shouldn't be natural armor or deflection. Both of those are provided by commonly used items, so typing it as one of those prevents the use of those items. Just make it an armor bonus.

Kamai
2015-07-13, 01:03 AM
Also, it shouldn't be natural armor or deflection. Both of those are provided by commonly used items, so typing it as one of those prevents the use of those items. Just make it an armor bonus.

As a clarification, it's fine for it to be natural armor (although weird that it doesn't stack with armor) since the item that grants natural armor grants an enhancement bonus to natural armor, not a strict natural armor bonus.

On the idea itself, bumping it up to 3 + 1/2 would put it on pace for a sensible light armor progression. Since this is supposed to be a replaced proficiency, and not much else, 5 + 1/3 might be a little inappropriate compared to actual armor wearers given that it has no penalties.

Hanuman
2015-07-13, 06:20 PM
It has to start higher. Getting +11 AC at level 20 is all well and good, but have fun surviving level 1 with an AC of 12+Dex as a melee character. Starting at 5 and adding 1 per 3 levels would be better, and ends at the same total value (+11).

Also, it shouldn't be natural armor or deflection. Both of those are provided by commonly used items, so typing it as one of those prevents the use of those items. Just make it an armor bonus.
Good peach, 1/3 progression with a higher frontload does sound better.
The idea is that it's a flat effect that replaces the necessity for armor, assuming you'd otherwise be using items, the RAI is an "or" basis because the mechanic is essentially free.


As a clarification, it's fine for it to be natural armor (although weird that it doesn't stack with armor) since the item that grants natural armor grants an enhancement bonus to natural armor, not a strict natural armor bonus.

On the idea itself, bumping it up to 3 + 1/2 would put it on pace for a sensible light armor progression. Since this is supposed to be a replaced proficiency, and not much else, 5 + 1/3 might be a little inappropriate compared to actual armor wearers given that it has no penalties.
@NA
Hm, it does state that it doesn't stack with NA granting objects now that I am re-writing it... pretty sure that was intentional. Hm.

3 + 1/2 does sound like a good balancepoint too for what is essentially a near-free mechanic that makes sure you're always armored decently to your level.
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Updated mechanic...

[ Gain bonus to NAC that doesn't stack with armor or shield bonuses, equal to 1 + your constitution modifier + 1/2 Level ]

Playtesting indicates players choose 14 or 16 cha, 14 for offense/balanced and 16 for defense, 1 + 2 + 1/2 level works for light armor, 1 + 3 + 1/2 works for med armor.

Stats keyed to ( STR =>= CHA > CON > DEX > WIS > INT ) and focus on str cha con for abilities. Instead of 14 con 12 dex you'll probably see 16 con 10 dex which works fine.

Without con invest the class relies on it's large initial HP pool for survivability and special defensive properties.

The problem with this is that when players optimize AC with this mechanic it runs into problems with them being too tanky? 23AC+ at level 6 is a bit much....

Settled on 3 + 1/2 Level, con was too swingy to remain balanced with player variance.

[ You gain a Natural Armor bonus equal to 3 + Level which does not stack with armor, shield or natural armor bonuses granted by items. ]