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View Full Version : LA +0 and Wis bonus?! Impossible!



Vazzaroth
2007-04-30, 10:38 PM
At the risk of being called a munchkin, :smallbiggrin:, I have been looking for some race that gives a Wis bonus as wella s having a +0 LA and have come up with nothing. Is Wis really that good, or is it just a coincidence?

I want it for a Soulbow who will have Zen archery.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-30, 10:50 PM
its not that good....just coincidence

Zagreen
2007-04-30, 10:50 PM
I think the anthropomorphic races in Savage Species tend to get WIS bonuses and many of them are LA +0 (although I think this is mostly the smaller ones). On the other hand, if you break out Savage Species then you ARE a munchkin, no questions about it.

Arguably WIS really is "that good". There's an aversion to giving bonuses to mental stats for LA +0 races because of how much of an advantage they give for primary spellcasters. There ARE some LA +0 WotC races with INT or CHA bonuses, but as far as I'm aware these are pretty much always balanced by -2 CON which makes them really painful for arcane spellcasters to take, because you need all the CON you can get with those d4 HD. But CoDzillas with their d8s don't care quite as much, so there's no easy way to balance a WIS bonus.

Ramza00
2007-04-30, 10:53 PM
The lesser aasimiar should give you +2 wis +2 cha and 0 LA. You are not an outsider though, and you are planetouched (and thus subject to all the nasty outsider only spells)

F.L.
2007-04-30, 11:31 PM
The Vanara of Oriental Adventures had +2 int and wis, -2 str. Also quite cheesy.

Hamster_Ninja
2007-04-30, 11:38 PM
Anthropormorphic bat has +6 Wis but -4 strength and -2 charisma.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-30, 11:40 PM
The Vanara of Oriental Adventures had +2 int and wis, -2 str. Also quite cheesy.

The inverse of a half-orc.

Armads
2007-04-30, 11:41 PM
buomman have LA +0, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, but an annoying racial vow of silence.

Penguinsushi
2007-04-30, 11:50 PM
Yeah, i've run into that problem too. There's nothing that fits that description in any of the books that I own.

Several people have mentioned things I've not heard of... ...sources? I'm curious...

~PS

edit: @A (below): Thanks! :smallsmile:

Armads
2007-05-01, 12:07 AM
Buomman are from the Planar Handbook.

Hamster_Ninja
2007-05-01, 12:16 AM
Anthropormorphic animals are from Savage Cheese

Vazzaroth
2007-05-01, 12:24 AM
buomman have LA +0, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, but an annoying racial vow of silence.

... really? Weird! I was actually considering makeing that character a mute! Hmm... I will look into this. :smallcool:

Edit: Manual of the Planes? I can't find them in it. Or is it a whole diffrent book called Planar Handbook?

Aximili
2007-05-01, 12:27 AM
It is a whole different book called Planar Handbook. ;-)

deadseashoals
2007-05-01, 02:09 AM
Jermlaine from the Monster Manual II. +6 wis and dex, tiny size, and penalties to pretty much every other ability score.

ZeroNumerous
2007-05-01, 02:19 AM
If you're doing it for spellcasting, making a buomman is a bad idea. Verbal components.

You're better off going lesser assimar, especially if this is for a cleric(+2 CHA!).

Borogove
2007-05-01, 02:31 AM
If you're doing it for spellcasting, making a buomman is a bad idea. Verbal components.There's a feat in the same book that gets around that, if I remember correctly.

Leon
2007-05-01, 03:48 AM
If you're doing it for spellcasting, making a buomman is a bad idea. Verbal components.


Soulbow has no need for spell casting

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-01, 05:17 AM
Lesser Aasimar=bad design. When converting races to "monster class", you should never front-load them(eg. Paladin, for normal base classes. Remove Disease is also so situational, practically every other substitution listing trades it for more useful powers).

Vanara are now empty, as far as ability score bonuses/penalties are concerned, as of the Dragon Magazine update to Oriental Adventures(The one with the Asian-looking Ninja-chick on the cover).

Armads
2007-05-01, 05:22 AM
Lesser Aasimar = broken
It has unbalanced ability scores, minor resistances (which don't matter), and some other stuff.

WotC apparently can't follow it's own rules regarding race creation (e.g. unbalanced ability scores warrant an LA and stuff like that)

Hazkali
2007-05-01, 05:52 AM
Could I insert a plug here for one of my own creations, the Gronkyn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37092)?

Penguinsushi
2007-05-01, 02:54 PM
Could I insert a plug here for one of my own creations, the Gronkyn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37092)?

I could do likewise with one of the races i made for my Earth setting (http://www.penguinsushi.com/index.php?page=Forum&thread=27#reply87) called the Dragonborn (+2 dex, +2 wis). That gets confusing though, sense WOTC's 'races of the dragon' now has its own race with that name (which is totally different from the one i made).

...though honestly most people think my custom races are a tad overpowered for ecl 0. I justify it by way of the fact that they all have significant (if limited) drawbacks...

Hazkali - the Gronkyn look pretty interesting, btw. Nice work.

~PS

brian c
2007-05-01, 03:15 PM
A lesser Aasimar Monk/Paladin... mmmmm. Monk/Paladin (or vice versa) is my favorite multiclass combo but the MAD really does you in. +2 to wis and cha though would help out a lot...

Slightly off-topic, but I've heard there's some feat that lets Paladins base their abilities off of Wis instead of Cha, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone know?

brian c
2007-05-01, 03:16 PM
A lesser Aasimar Monk/Paladin... mmmmm. Monk/Paladin (or vice versa) is my favorite multiclass combo but the MAD really does you in. +2 to wis and cha though would help out a lot...

Slightly off-topic, but I've heard there's some feat that lets Paladins base their abilities off of Wis instead of Cha, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone know? A monk/pally with Wis added to AC and saves sounds awesomely fun.

Lord Tataraus
2007-05-01, 03:44 PM
I think there was a turtle-creature with +2 Wis & Con, -something dex from a dragon magazine.

Arbitrarity
2007-05-01, 04:11 PM
Arcane Affinity (su): Parisian Elves have an intuitive ability to work with magic. A Parisian Elf who can cast arcane spells knows and casts arcane spells as if he or she were one level higher.
- Arcane Potency (su): Spells cast by Parisian Elves are more difficult to resist than those cast by other races. The save dc's of any arcane spells cast by a Parisian Elf are 2 points higher than normal.

Sounds kinda broken to me...

Amphimir Míriel
2007-05-01, 04:22 PM
At the risk of being called a munchkin...

You munchkin! :smalltongue:

But seriously, the Vanara from Oriental Adventures might fit your idea both crunch and fluff-wise

A Hanuman-like character with zen archery is a cool idea.

Penguinsushi
2007-05-01, 07:00 PM
Sounds kinda broken to me...

Yeah, it kinda does. We could probably discuss this in the homebrew forum eventually (if I ever get around to posting stuff there), but just for now: I think that gets at least *partially* balanced by the fact that they also have a harder time resisting arcane spells, don't get the normal elven immunities to paralysis and sleep and have a -2 str, +2 cha (in addition to the normal elven ability mods), which isn't really a fair trade.

I've had several pc's play them as a race, and its yet to cause *any* sort of balance problem.

Bottom line: you're probably right, but it works for me for now... :smallsmile:

~PS

Rimx
2007-05-01, 07:02 PM
I think there was a turtle-creature with +2 Wis & Con, -something dex from a dragon magazine.

Tortles I believe, updated to 3.5e in dragon 315. The second ed version is available in the Red Steel/Savage Coast campaign setting. The campaign setting available for free at WOTC previous edition (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads) page. It's also available as a pdf or html (http://pandius.com/svgecst.html) on pandius.com. In that edition they get +1 Wis, +1 Con, -2 Dex.

Yvian
2007-05-01, 07:22 PM
Jermlaine from the Monster Manual II. +6 wis and dex, tiny size, and penalties to pretty much every other ability score.

Where are you getting the level adjustment for Jermlanine? I am not seeing it in the MMII.

Vazzaroth
2007-05-01, 07:29 PM
I found them. They are nasty little rat spawn things. :smallyuk:

I was looking for something much more human-like. Medium size,at least.

Penguinsushi
2007-05-01, 07:38 PM
Where are you getting the level adjustment for Jermlanine? I am not seeing it in the MMII.

The MMII (as a 3.0 book) didn't have LA's - but wizards' site has some pdf's that essentially tell you the things that would be changed in each book. According to the 3.5 upgrade for MMII, jermlaine do have an LA of +0.

~PS