Let's make an egoist! lv 5, core+completes+xph

[Svata]

So I've dabbled in psionics before (mostly with psychic rogues, a couple gestalt mind flayers, and a single PsyWar.) But never an egoist, and rarely at low levels. Any advice for stuff? BTW game is in ravenloft, and we have minimal wealth. 600 gp, mundane gear, and a single +1 item.

[Xervous]

Could you please specify the level of optimization desired? It would certainly help cut back on the number of infinite PP recharge tricks that get mentioned (if such things aren't on the table) along with similar shenanigans.

ADDITIONALLY: What stat generation method is to be used here?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Obligatory Psion Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0) link.

Do you want to make a primary caster style Psion, or more of a gish who buffs and melees? What's your starting level?

Are you allowed to use online content (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi)? The Change Shape and True Healer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) ACFs are extremely good, and you can even use Substitute Powers (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) with that Life mantle.

[Sagetim]

If you're going to be fixing people, I would suggest picking up touch of life from the life mantle through expanded knowledge as a level 3 feat, and aiming for the Sangehirn from The Mind's Eye articles from the days of yore. You can still find the mind's eye archive, including a 3.5 updated version of Sangehirn. If nothing else, it gives you something to aim for, something that includes DR/- and Fast Healing while you are psionically focused. Oh, and it's focused on healing and stuff for it's powers, so that should mesh well with your egotist build.

Depending on your stats, and how many levels the game lasts, you might go just enough in Sangehirn to get the fast healing, then take some dips into melee focused classes, like Fighter, to pick up armor and weapon proficiencies and have a decent chance of pretending to be a Tank, you know, between the fast healing, the DR, the psychic powers, and feats like Deep Strike to attack vs touch ac. Doing something like that would require picking up psychic meditation, but you would probably qualify for that well before the first level of fighter.

Now, I suggest fighter because it's Ravenloft. And I'm willing to believe that the DM for this would want you to have access to things that you bring in with you, that is: psionics would be open because you're bringing a psion with you, it's power of the mind, your own power. If you don't bring someone in who already has tome of battle stuff going on, I could see the DM just saying 'no, you have no way of learning that'. Which is completely fair in Ravenloft, it's a super closed off setting. So, depending on the DM, you could plan out your Egotist and pick up a maneuver at level 3 through the martial study feat or something, and use that as a basis for later taking levels in a tome of battle class to shore up your melee prowess. If your DM is willing to let you just do it though, then going egotist/sangehirn/(warblade or swordsage) could lead to a very survivable build.

And if you go sword sage, then 1 dip will get you 6 maneuvers to pick from. And because of the way martial maneuver classes work in 3.5, you get to count 1/2 your levels from other classes for initiator levels (which means if you go 5 egotist/3 sangehirn/1 sword sage, you could pick up sword sage stuff as a 5th level initiator). Then you could go back to Sangehirn and complete it, and if you needed more martial prowess dip a bit more into sword sage. Practiced Manifester would be your friend for this build, because if I recall correctly Sangehirn eats up some of your manifester levels on it's own.

On the subject of maneuvers: you could pick up a lot of diamond mind maneuvers to make things work off your concentration for you, which would certainly help your tankiness.

[Nifft]

A slightly different direction: Egoist / Ranger / Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm)

Either Egoist 4 / Ranger 1 / Egoist +2 / Slayer, or if you're really in a hurry to get into Slayer, then Egoist 4 / Ranger 2 / Slayer.

Why would you be in a hurry to get into Slayer?



Enemy Sense (Su)
A slayer can sense the presence of her favored enemy within 60 feet of herself, even if they are hidden by darkness or walls, but she cannot discern their exact location.

Lucid Buffer (Ex)
At 3rd level, a slayer becomes especially skilled at resisting mental attacks. She gains a +4 competence bonus on saving throws against all compulsions and mind-affecting effects. This ability is active even if the slayer is unconscious, stunned, or otherwise helpless.

Cerebral Blind (Su)
After reaching 6th level, a slayer is protected from all devices, powers, and spells that reveal location. This ability protects against information gathering by clairsentience powers or effects that reveal location.

The ability even foils bend reality, limited wish, miracle, reality revision, and wish when they are used to gain information about the slayer’s location (however, metafaculty can pierce this protective barrier). In the case of remote viewing or scrying that scans an area a slayer is in, the effect works, but the slayer simply isn’t detected. Remote viewing or scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at a slayer do not work. This ability is active as long as the slayer is psionically focused.

Cerebral Immunity (Su)
On reaching 9th level, a slayer gains protection from all devices, powers, and spells that influence the mind. This ability shields her against almost all mind-affecting powers and effects (though the slayer can selectively allow powers or spells to affect her). The ability even foils bend reality, limited wish, miracle, reality revision, and wish when they are used to mentally influence a slayer. This ability is active as long as the slayer is psionically focused.


Pick Undead as your 1st Ranger Favored Enemy.

Work with your DM to find a good Slayer Favored Enemy, which ought to be some kind of Psionic nasty that exists in Ravenloft.

You detect any Favored Enemy within 60 ft., which ought to include both your Ranger and your Slayer Favored Enemies, since they're the same class feature (in name and function).

Pose as a Ranger. You can even use some Divine magic items like wands thanks to your Ranger spell list.

If you take 2 Ranger levels, then Archery is a nice path, because you have powers like bolt which obviate running out of ammo; and because Psionic melee feats greatly favor two-handed Power Attack rather than dual-weapons -- but honestly I would try to avoid melee because I have an aversion to negative levels and paralysis and disease and ugh.

Why is Slayer so great in Ravenloft?
- Avoid detection. Scry-and-die fails at the point of scrying.
- Avoid domination. Vampires have difficulty using charm on you, and so forth, until you hit 9th level and you just become flat-out immune to everything mind-affecting.
- Access to Spot, Listen, Sense Motive and Survival. These are really nice class skills, and they act as a passive defense against sneaky bastards. 4+Int points per level means you can snag a bunch.
- High BAB. You'll have the option of going for a melee or archery build if you want. I think you won't have enough feats for both, though, and of course you'd have more raw power by focusing your feats on manifesting, but being able to pass as a relatively mundane warrior has some benefits.

[Troacctid]

Doesn't the EPH version of the Illithid Slayer only detect illithids? The prestige class was genericized for the SRD because illithids are protected content, but SRD wasn't mentioned as an allowed source, and if you're using the book version, that trick wouldn't work.

If SRD is allowed, I would go for wild shape instead of the Ranger combat style. You wouldn't be taking 5 levels, but it gives you fast movement, which is probably more useful than rapid shot.

[Nifft]

Doesn't the EPH version of the Illithid Slayer only detect illithids? The prestige class was genericized for the SRD because illithids are protected content, but SRD wasn't mentioned as an allowed source, and if you're using the book version, that trick wouldn't work. You might be correct. I honestly don't look at physical books when the SRD contains the info that I want.


If SRD is allowed, I would go for wild shape instead of the Ranger combat style. You wouldn't be taking 5 levels, but it gives you fast movement, which is probably more useful than rapid shot. That's a great idea, especially since "fast movement as Barbarian" seems to mean that you'd get it at Ranger 1, which might be the only level you ever take.

(Heh, then tell people that your Psionic Metamorphosis power is just "Wild Shape".)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

To add onto what Nifft recommended, if you're only taking one Ranger level then use this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) from UA to get Fast Movement. If you would prefer to enter Slayer earlier with two Ranger levels, consider instead using one Ranger level with Fast Movement and one level of Paragnostic Initiate (CC). You can trade Ride for Tumble as a class skill (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) to bypass the BAB prerequisite, and pick Discern Weakness (Undead) for your Tactical Combat class feature.

In any case be sure to take Practiced Manifester and Psicrystal Affinity (Nimble or Hero). Always have Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm) active on your Psicrystal so you take half damage from all sources, its Hardness 8 reduces every instance of damage it takes from Share Pain by that much regardless of the original attack's type. Keep it in a compartment on your person so opponents never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or hit it with area effects. Give it a Healing Belt (MIC) which it can use on you during combat when needed. You can share beneficial powers with it such as Body Adjustment and Vigor.

Once you get Metamorphosis you can turn into a Bladerager Troll (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20070705b&page=3) or any number of other beasties (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519.0) to become extremely potent in melee combat. Use Expanded Knowledge to pick up Energy Missile, which can target opponents' weapons, armor, shields, spell component pouches, divine focus, etc. Time Hop can be used to accomplish the same thing, though it's more useful against bruiser type opponents due to the save. You can get Expanded Knowledge for Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm) and your partitioned mind can use offensive powers like Time Hop, buffs, or just refresh your Vigor every round if you're taking a lot of damage. You can get Expanded Knowledge for Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm), use that on yourself, and use Solicit Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/solicitPsicrystal.htm) so your Psicrystal takes over control of your physical actions, using your BAB and Int bonus, and you can still take purely mental actions such as manifesting powers. That Control Body trick is less useful when you have Metamorphosis, but it's still a good way of engaging in physical combat while manifesting powers.

[Sagetim]

Illithid Slayer, the prestige class in question, also requires you to have killed an Illithid with up to 6 other people before you can take levels in the class. This may pose some problems, especially if the gm requires the book version of the prestige class. To me, this just says that you can wander through Sangehirn in the meantime and pick up some of that tanking I mentioned before, then hunt down a squid head and start your glorious last 10 levels in the prestige class that gives full bab and if not full manifesting, close to it. Along with actual class abilities (unlike the eldritch knight, but that class doesn't require you to be a badass to enter it).

[Nifft]

Illithid Slayer, the prestige class in question, also requires you to have killed an Illithid with up to 6 other people before you can take levels in the class.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm

The OGL version, which is equally official and far more accessible, has no such requirement.

[Sagetim]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm

The OGL version, which is equally official and far more accessible, has no such requirement.

If your gm lets you use it, more power to you. I just wouldn't plan around them letting you use it when the book version is more restrictive in it's entry requirements.

[Svata]

Could you please specify the level of optimization desired? It would certainly help cut back on the number of infinite PP recharge tricks that get mentioned (if such things aren't on the table) along with similar shenanigans.

ADDITIONALLY: What stat generation method is to be used here?
*cringes* sorry! Mid op, 32 pb. Been out of the game for a while.



Obligatory Psion Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0) link.

Do you want to make a primary caster style Psion, or more of a gish who buffs and melees? What's your starting level?

Are you allowed to use online content (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi)? The Change Shape and True Healer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) ACFs are extremely good, and you can even use Substitute Powers (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) with that Life mantle.

Thanks. Level is in the thread title. Mostly gish, maybe a little healing on the side because, well, ravenloft. But no online content. DM said so.

Slayer is super nice, DM will allow SRD one. Thanks for the advice, all but UA, ToB, and such aren't core + completes + xph. Would gladly use them otherwise. Really would.

[Sagetim]

Well, if you're limited to completes, core, and expanded psionics handbook, then slayer is probably your best bet for a prc. Thrallherd could be funny, but I doubt you would want what Ravenloft would supply and I don't think your dm would appreciate a class that basically gets 'super leadership' as some of it's main abilities.

Going straight Slayer as much as you can is my suggestion, you'll only lose one manifester level that way, though you'll need to sink a feat into track, and I may be misremembering, but I think that requires you to have ranks in survival. Since Sangehirn is out, pick up Touch of Healing (Touch of Life?) at level 3 through expanded knowledge (the power is listed in the life mantle in complete psionic). At level 12, you'll want to pick up the improved one as well, so you can heal people for big chunks of damage with greater efficiency. I can't think of any good reason to jump slayer early at the expense of manifesting levels.

If you think you won't need touch of healing, get astral construct instead. It is super helpful for low level psions surviving combat. In one campaign (where I was finally allowed to play a psion) I was running a shaper along with a spirit shaman and a fighter. We were level 2. Because of repeated astral constructs (that went down in one hit, admittedly) we managed to survive a fight to level 3. They are super helpful, even if they're just bags of hp.

[Nifft]

*cringes* sorry! Mid op, 32 pb. Been out of the game for a while. Cool.

32 pb means...
18 (Int obviously)
14 (Con?)
14 (Dex or Wis)
10
10
8 (Str or Cha)

In terms of optimization, the one major thing I'd suggest is putting your Ranger level first. That gets you (6+Int) x4 skill points rather than (2+Int) x4, and Rangers have Concentration on their list, so you're building good skills.

Max out at level 1:
- Concentration
- Heal
- Hide, Move Silently
- Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, nature)
- Listen, Spot
- Search


Slayer is super nice, DM will allow SRD one. Thanks for the advice, all but UA, ToB, and such aren't core + completes + xph. Would gladly use them otherwise. Really would. Question about "Completes" -- are you required to use the nerfs in the Complete Psionic book?

If so, some powers like Astral Construct stop being quite as awesome.

[Svata]

No. Quoth the dm "XpH over rules Cpsi. Most of Cpsi is bad and it should feel bad."

[Nifft]

No. Quoth the dm "XpH over rules Cpsi. Most of Cpsi is bad and it should feel bad."

Good DM.

The Dimension Door buffs are kinda nice, but you won't have level 4 powers for a while if you're starting at level 5, so that's not really an urgent discussion -- and Dimension Door is great even without those buffs.

Regarding the Slayer, what's going to be your Slayer Favored Enemy? Some kind of Psionic monster which exists in Ravenloft, I'd presume?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No. Quoth the dm "XpH over rules Cpsi. Most of Cpsi is bad and it should feel bad."

In that case, definitely pick up Energy Stun as well.