Sorcerer 5 Mage of the Arcane Order 5. Just hit 10th level. (Spell selection time.)

[Metahuman1]

Hello Playground. Been a while since I posted one of these.


Anyway, my IRL game the party just hit 10th level. Party is a Multy-class Urban Ranger/Barbarian/Fighter (dip for feats.) with a level in Horizon Walker who TWF's with one handed weapons. A Pixie Swordsage/Factotum who may or may not be playing with us much longer (He's moving soon due to work. Might be skypeing in to join the game with us, will see. ) A Cat Hegiyokai Rogue/Swordsage, a Straight Class Dhamphere Ranger with the LA bought off doing Archery, a Cloistered Cleric (1 level dip for Turn Undead + Travel Devotion + Knowledge Devotion.) Scout/Ranger with Swift Hunter doing Archery, a Homebrewed LA 0 Gargoyle Wizard/Warblade/Swift Blade who's focusing on being a self buffing Gish, and my character, as described in the thread title.

We also have one NPC regularly occurring Allie who's a Werewolf Lord with Warblade levels. The DM gave him to the party initally cause he wanted a fail safe encase he screwed up the challenge of the encounter so that he could avoid total party wipe with out too much of a Deus Ex Machina.

Anyway, So, I'm now at 10th level sorcerer Casting. I'm looking at 5th level spells, and could use some suggestions on spells to pick up for my now open 5th level slots.

I currently have

1st Level: Grease, Benign Transposition, Sun Stroke, Know Protections, Nybor's Gentle Reminder.

2nd: Dimension Leap, Glitter Dust, Wings of Cover, Mirror's Image.

3rd: Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes, Fly,

4th: Polymorph. Solid Fog.

Known. Also, the DM is considering letting the Mage of The Arcane Orders extra spell class feature apply to me, but has not decided yet.

So, 5th level spells. Right now, Teleport Looks good, what else can you guys recommend?



Also, If anyone knows any good creatures to Polymorph into either for utility or Combat with 10 HD, I'd love to know about them! Thanks!

[Brova]

cloudkill is one of the better options at 5th level. Bonus points for synergy with solid fog. Any particular reason your party needs teleport?

[Metahuman1]

The only other serious-ish Caster is the Swiftblade who's focused heavily on self buffing and Gishing. This is the first chance I've had to take teleport, so we've been doing pretty much all our travel, particularly long distance travel, the old fashioned way.


Cloud Kill is possible. Though, I should mention were spending a fair bit of time fighting constructs, so, maybe that shouldn't be my first pick up.

[Brova]

The only other serious-ish Caster is the Swiftblade who's focused heavily on self buffing and Gishing. This is the first chance I've had to take teleport, so we've been doing pretty much all our travel, particularly long distance travel, the old fashioned way.


Cloud Kill is possible. Though, I should mention were spending a fair bit of time fighting constructs, so, maybe that shouldn't be my first pick up.

I wouldn't pick a utility spell as your first choice at 5th level, especially given your lack of metamagic. You're not going to be teleporting five times a day, so those slots aren't doing a whole lot of good. Here (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=31962) is a list of combat spells sorted by level.

[Metahuman1]

List looks helpful. Though, I can't help but note it's missing Disintegrate or Plane Shift. There, what, 6th level spells?

[erok0809]

Disintegrate is 6th, plane shift is 7th (for a wiz/sorc, its 5th for clerics but that's not relevant now)

[Metahuman1]

Ah, alright then. But there not on the list in any of those levels.

So, that said, 5th level, other suggestions?




And any suggestions for forms to Polymorph into with 10 HD? Anything good opened up at this stage?

[Jack_Simth]

So, 5th level spells. Right now, Teleport Looks good, what else can you guys recommend? As a Mage of the Arcane Order, Teleport isn't a good idea. You won't need it more than a few times per day, and when you do, you can get it from the Spell Pool without a problem.

Likewise, most utility spells aren't a good idea. Anything that you'll need only occasionally, you just grab from the spellpool. Your spells known should be the ones you'll use often. Big combat spells and such.

If you had the supporting spells for it, I might suggest something in the Planar Binding line (a well-built Wizard can prepare the perfect spell for the job; a well-built Sorcerer can Call the perfect Outsider for the job).

[Lerondiel]

For a spell you'll want to cast over and over, with defensive capabilities and constant but versatile energy damage with no save?

Fire Shield, Mass - Annoying DMs with every melee hit since 2005 :)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hire an NPC Psion to use a Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) on you, which at the standard rate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) will cost 280 gp plus an extra 125 gp and 25 xp for every level you repick, minimum one, max ten. This allows you to repick your skills, feats, and (with magic/psionics transparency) spells for your most recent level gained and back as far as you pay for, all the way to what you picked at 1st level if you want. Put Wings of Flurry on your spells known, and I would even pick up Empower Spell and Practical Metamagic to spend your 5th level slots on that, and even Residual Magic to empower it from a 4th level slot the next round.

Get the Ancestral Relic Runestaff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) trick, which easily more than doubles your number of spells known. Make it an Elvencraft (RotW) Composite Longbow, which counts as both a quarterstaff and a bow. You'll need to buy Masterwork three times, but you can also put three Wand Chambers from Dungeonscape into it. Whenever you're holding that you can activate any of the three wands it contains as though you were holding each one. Per the Rules Compendium any wand, staff, or scroll takes the same action to activate as the casting time of the spell being used from it, so an immediate action spell like Wings of Cover or Nerveskitter is still an immediate action to use from a wand.

Put 1/day long-duration buffs and utility spells on your Runestaff, such as Shrink Item, (Greater) Mage/Luminous Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire, Endure Elements, Greater/Superior Resistance, Arcane Turmoil, Overland Flight, Command Undead, Protection From/Magic Circle Against Evil, Teleport, etc. Get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend for hour/level buffs, and a Circlet of Rapid Casting for low-level crowd controls like Web and Glitterdust.

You can make all three portions of that weapon +1 Defending, and put Greater Magic Weapon on each and keep all three benefiting your AC, since Defending stacks with all other bonuses which would include other defending bonuses. You can even put non-Sorcerer spells in that Runestaff and make a DC 21 UMD check to emulate the spell list class feature of a class that can use that spell when you attune to it in the morning, and for the rest of the day you can cast that spell using your Sorcerer spell slots just like it was any other spell on the Runestaff.

[Metahuman1]

As a Mage of the Arcane Order, Teleport isn't a good idea. You won't need it more than a few times per day, and when you do, you can get it from the Spell Pool without a problem.

Likewise, most utility spells aren't a good idea. Anything that you'll need only occasionally, you just grab from the spellpool. Your spells known should be the ones you'll use often. Big combat spells and such.

If you had the supporting spells for it, I might suggest something in the Planar Binding line (a well-built Wizard can prepare the perfect spell for the job; a well-built Sorcerer can Call the perfect Outsider for the job).

What are the supporting spells?

As for Wings of Flurry, I'm honestly not sure I'd be casting that much when there's save or Suck/Loose/Die spells and Polymorph to cast.

[Brova]

What are the supporting spells?

magic circle against whatever, possibly dimensional anchor. If you have a base of operations, a scroll should work fine. Otherwise you will need to be able to set up magic circles on the go.

lesser planar binding is very much playing with fire though. It can be anywhere from bad to insane. I recommend using primarily utility monsters, with some stuff to fill niches the party lacks. One creature I'm particularly fond of is the mirror mephit, mostly for 1/day simulacrum (ask how your DM evaluates half - potentially very good with PrCs). There's a lot of options here, with something for essentially any spell you could want.


As for Wings of Flurry, I'm honestly not sure I'd be casting that much when there's save or Suck/Loose/Die spells and Polymorph to cast.

wings of flurry is a reasonable save or die (reflex against one round daze), but the real power is that it's a blast spell without a caster level cap. Nothing obscene, but it's a niche.

[Jack_Simth]

What are the supporting spells?

As for Wings of Flurry, I'm honestly not sure I'd be casting that much when there's save or Suck/Loose/Die spells and Polymorph to cast.

Brova gave a partial list.

Magic Circle Against [alignment]. You actually want two of those: One for Law, one for Chaos. For Chaotic marks, you use Magic Circle Against Chaos. For Lawful marks, you use Magic Circle Against Law. For Neutral marks, you can use either. Very handy if you want to bind an Archon or Angel, as you can avoid casting an [Evil] spell.

Dimensional Anchor: Only needed if your mark comes with telportation or plane-shifting abilities. You can skip this if you're Binding elemental meatshields. However, most of the stronger outsiders (angels, devils, archons, demons, et cetera) come with these abilities, so you'll need it.

Dismissal: In case your mark busts loose, you have a handy 'go away' button to help clean up.

Also useful: Anything that boosts your Charisma, anything that boosts charisma checks (Moment of Prescience is VERY good for this, but also take a look at the Circlet of Persuasion), anything that permits the occasional reroll of a nat-1 (luckblade).

[Metahuman1]

Alright. So, quick update.

The DM has ruled a few things.

1: That I can still get an extra spell known, up to the highest level spell I may actually cast, (in this case up to 5th level.), from my mage of the Arcane Order level up. So, I need to select 2 5th level spells known.

2: He's gonna have the party do a Respeck and a Time Skip, so, that actually gives me a few extra options. =)


Toward that end, I am wide open to any additional suggestions.

(Though 5th level spells and again, Creatures I can transform into with Polymorph that have 10 HD and are useful for something are certainly tops on my list.)

[Sagetim]

I think you should take Firebrand because it's ****ing awesome and can be used to hit huge areas for damage comparable to, then better than fireball. With proper burst placement, you can even avoid your allies while surrounding them in fire that engulfs your enemies. Energy Substitution (Sonic) and you now have Soundbrand, the hip new way to cast firebrand while ignoring a lot of immunities and resistances.

Yes, my suggestion is to take a spell that you can commit genocide with. Use Spellpool for things like teleport and planar blah blah blah.

Oh, and overland flight is pretty sweet. I know I'd be casting it at least once a day if I were a sorcerer. And a ring of feather fall to go with that spell.

Also, with Soundbrand you can describe it as that Inception Bwaaan. You know, just Bwaaan, things die. Gimauld's Greymantle (or just Greymantle when they rip the wizard's name off it) is a great 5th level spell. Attach it to a +1 throwing and returning wounding bone dagger and you have a means of really ****ting on someone's day. Because they can't heal, through magic or anything else, while the greymantle affects them. Alternatively, put it on a bone +1 throwing and returning disruption club for pesky undead.

[DrMartin]

I'd pick arcane fusion - you are free to choose the level of aging on your gouda since you get a free re-speck and can go heavy on metamagic reducers, but even without them it's a great spell

greater blink is another solid pick

[Sagetim]

I'd pick arcane fusion - you are free to choose the level of aging on your gouda since you get a free re-speck and can go heavy on metamagic reducers, but even without them it's a great spell

greater blink is another solid pick

You would need some cool spells to combo with Arcane Fusion, but it's still a cool spell. As I recall it lets you combo a first level spell and a fourth level spell in one casting of a 5th level spell. I dunno, maybe Protection From Evil and Stone Skin? I'm sure there's more cheesy options out there. And I can't recall if you need spell components to use it or not. If not...well, free stone skins. mmmmm. Stone Skin.

[DrMartin]

yeah you got to provide the materials for the spells you're fusing - but even with the spell your current spell selection you can have some fun. benign transposition + dimension leap to get you and an ally out of danger, or benign transp + polymorph for some shock&awe, or solid fog + grease..

check with your DM if you can use it with your spell pool spells though - the wording of the spell says to pick among "spells you know", so i guess a RAW reading would say you cannot.

for polymorph, have you read this handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519.0) yet?

[Jack_Simth]

You would need some cool spells to combo with Arcane Fusion, but it's still a cool spell. As I recall it lets you combo a first level spell and a fourth level spell in one casting of a 5th level spell. I dunno, maybe Protection From Evil and Stone Skin? I'm sure there's more cheesy options out there. And I can't recall if you need spell components to use it or not. If not...well, free stone skins. mmmmm. Stone Skin.

The cheesiest option out there is a Sanctum Spell(Arcane Fusion) outside your sanctum. The first level spell can be anything, people are often fond of Magic Missile or one of the lesser orb spells.

[DrMartin]

The cheesiest option out there is a Sanctum Spell(Arcane Fusion) outside your sanctum. The first level spell can be anything, people are often fond of Magic Missile or one of the lesser orb spells.

yeah but is this (or any other infinite loop, for that matter) ever allowed to run in a game though? I mean, how many books can a man dodge? :smallbiggrin:

[Sagetim]

yeah but is this (or any other infinite loop, for that matter) ever allowed to run in a game though? I mean, how many books can a man dodge? :smallbiggrin:

All of them as long as he's a first level barbarian.

[Jack_Simth]

yeah but is this (or any other infinite loop, for that matter) ever allowed to run in a game though? I mean, how many books can a man dodge? :smallbiggrin:
I'm quite spry.

[Metahuman1]

I IRL know how to duel wield tower shields and have the equipment to make that work. Also, motor Cycle helmets, work boots and baseball leg protection help.

XD!


Ok, more seriously, handbook is helpful, couple of neat looking forms in there. XD!


Firebrand and Arcane Fusion sound, interesting. What books are they in? Complete Mage? Complete Arcane? Spell compendium?

[Sagetim]

Firebrand was originally printed in magic of faerun, but I'm pretty sure it got reprinted in the spell compendium.

[DrMartin]

and Arcane Fusion is from complete mage

[Metahuman1]

Ok. So, that's been helpful on the spells.

I do, however, have one other question, regarding Templates. Can anyone recommend any good none Psionic Templates that Boost Cha, and are either LA 1 or LA 2?

[Aetis]

I recommend Arcane Fusion and Channeled Sound Blast, both from complete mage.

[Brova]

Ok. So, that's been helpful on the spells.

I do, however, have one other question, regarding Templates. Can anyone recommend any good none Psionic Templates that Boost Cha, and are either LA 1 or LA 2?

I don't know about good but draconic is +2 Cha for +1 LA, IIRC. Are you getting the templates for free? Otherwise it's probably not worth it.

[Sagetim]

half fey is +2, nets you +4 cha, wings, and a bundle of spell like abilities. If you use as it's written in the book, it even gives charm person at will. I'm not sure if that was changed or updated or what have you though. Even if the spell like abilities are different, +2 dex, -2 con +2 wis and +4 charisma and wings at twice fastest movement speed are still part of it.

[DarkSonic1337]

If your DM allows Dragon Magazine there's Magic Blooded for -2 Wis, +2 charisma, and a handfull of spell likes. 0LA

[Endarire]

Teleport. Very, very useful.

[DrMartin]

is the template for free as part of the respeck?

there are probably more optimal things out there, but one fun option would be going necropolitan, and pick up the evolved undead template twice. for 1000xp and +2 LA this would give you +4 str, +4 cha, the undead type with fat d12hp, its resistances and stuff (like the option to ignore constitution with your point buy), two spell like abilities 1/day (even stuff you couldn't have yet, like greater dispel and creeping doom) and fast healing (3 or 6, depending if it stacks with itself - the way the template is written implies it does stack). it's all in the book of terrible latin libris mortis.

[Metahuman1]

Yes, the template is a freebee in in the Respeck. The DM typo'd his post on the group's facebook page, so I'm unclear on weather it's LA 1 that's free, or LA 2 that's free, but everyone's getting either the one, or everyone's getting the other.


Thus, I need to have a couple of options open for both.

Alright, so, Draconic, Half Fey, any other options?

[Brova]

Thus, I need to have a couple of options open for both.

Alright, so, Draconic, Half Fey, any other options?

Half-vampire is pretty good. You get a gaze that drops charm monster on people, some fast healing, and DR you don't care about. Not super powerful, but better than being draconic. The most powerful option is probably Saint, although I'm convinced I'm missing something (probably encouragements for your DM to screw you over with the alignment system). Right off the bat you get +2 to the DCs of all your spells, which is basically worth it all on its own. You also get +4 Cha, some immunities (notably, petrification), you have an aura of both magic circle against evil and lesser globe of invulnerability, fast healing, and some other minor abilities.

Also, back to the subject of spells, being a Mage of the Arcane Order basically means that you never want to learn a downtime spell. So lesser planar binding, while an awesome spell to cast is a terrible spell to learn, because you will basically never need to cast it even twice a day. Similarly teleport. If you're picking two 5th level spells, I'd go with arcane fusion and baleful polymorph, cloudkill, magic jar or some other combat spell. Maybe swap polymorph for something else and grab draconic polymorph.

[DrMartin]

Saint has a host of requirements - among them three exhalted feats, having to be not just good, but exhalted good, and having to make an extraordinary sacrifice for the good of other people, which is up to the DM's alley.

About Half vampire : please note that that doesn't give you the undead subtype, and that the charm monster is not a real gaze attack, it's more like a spell-like ability. Still, at-will charm monster is nice.

I'd still rather go with half-fey or necropolitan and 2x evolved undead though

Shame for the no psionics, 'cos a free phrenic + magic in the blood is hard to beat

[Brova]

Yah, I figured Saint was too good to be true.

Anyway, one spell you should totally re-spec into is ray of stupidity. It's a very situational spell (being as it is basically not worth casting on anything with more than 3 Int), but completely insane when it works (as it kills all animals forever, as well as a wide assortment of high level "environmental hazard" monsters). Since ability scores don't really track to level at all, any of the ability damage spells are good, but ray of stupidity hits a pretty sweet combination of low level, being ranged, and hitting a fairly wide selection of stuff.