What caster PrCs would be viable with full casting advancement?

[Brova]

There are a lot of caster PrCs that aren't good enough, simply because they cost caster levels. It seems to me that none (or very few) of them are actually good enough to be worth the caster levels. So which PrCs turn from trash to treasure if you houserule them to be full casting?

[Andreaz]

Full or almost full, as in 4/5 and 9/10.
Losing one caster level isn't usually a big deal. Losing 3 is extreme, losing 4 is a sin. Also, caster levels lost to pre-requisites (like mystic theurge) also count.

Well, most of them, really. Arcane Archer quickly comes to mind.

[Brova]

Full or almost full, as in 4/5 and 9/10.

Full-full. I honestly can't think of a PrC that's actually better than Incantatrix, and Incantatrix is already a full casting class.


mystic theurge

Theurges live in a weird place. On the one hand, giving up more than one caster level sucks, because at that point you could just have taken leadership for a cohort with levels in whatever you were theurging with. They should probably all work like Anima Mage, where you give up one level on both classes and get some useful class features. Also, they need to advance all the way to 20th - because it sucks that your concept has an expiration date.

[Lerondiel]

Trying to find a similar thread from earlier this year...pretty sure Master Transmogrifist was the most voted.

[darksolitaire]

So which PrCs turn from trash to treasure if you houserule them to be full casting?

...all of them? Since Wizard, Sorcerer and Cleric don't have any class features, taking any full caster PrC with some features is preferable. Well, if we put all comers against Incantatrix most are still bound to fall short.

The likes of Master Transmogrifist and Mindbender would be decent enough with 9/10 or 8/10. They'd lose some raw power in exchange of tighter focus.

[Svata]

Pretty much all of them.

[Red Fel]

Well, most of them, really.

...all of them? Since Wizard, Sorcerer and Cleric don't have any class features, taking any full caster PrC with some features is preferable.

Pretty much all of them.

It is known.

Casting progression is the most powerful class ability. Full casting progression is the ability to break the game. Certain classes don't have any class features except spellcasting, and they're still Tier 1-2. Keeping their full casting progression but adding class features constitutes a strict upgrade. By this standard, every single PrC would be a strict upgrade over Cleric, Sorcerer, or Wizard.

That said, there's a wrinkle to this question - what about the classes that have class features? Druid comes to mind. Very few PrCs are needed for Druids, although certain ones are still pretty nice, simply because spellcasting isn't the only thing that makes Druids obscene.

But in terms of raw viability? Any PrC that goes from partial casting to full casting becomes immediately more viable than it was, and certainly a better option than remaining in a class with only spellcasting for features.

[Andreaz]

Full-full. I honestly can't think of a PrC that's actually better than Incantatrix, and Incantatrix is already a full casting class.Well, I'm talking about viable classes, not about the most powerful classes. Incantatrix is grossly overpowered. You could take any 1/3 of its class features and make a viable 10-levels prestige class.

[Aliek]

Swiftblade would be a very strong PrC, since it is viable with its lost caster levels already, if only a bit niche.

I'm a sucker for Windwright Captain(Eberron's Explorer's handbook), it's a fun, flavorful prc, but the way it loses two caster levels hurt.

But yeah, every casting prc would be viable with full casting advancement, really.

[Andreaz]

Swiftblade would be a very strong PrC, since it is viable with its lost caster levels already, if only a bit niche.Pretty much. The class feature that loses you the last CL is weaker than lvl 9 spells...since there's a lvl 9 spell that does that very thing.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Swiftblade would be a very strong PrC, since it is viable with its lost caster levels already, if only a bit niche.

I'm a sucker for Windwright Captain(Eberron's Explorer's handbook), it's a fun, flavorful prc, but the way it loses two caster levels hurt.

But yeah, every casting prc would be viable with full casting advancement, really.

That's not entirely true. There are some PrCs where the entry requirements would be so onerous that the PrC continues to suck.

As an example, Harper Master is a full-casting class that advances either arcane or divine casting. It also requires 8-12 ranks in six skills, including 12 in perform, two garbage (though easy to acquire) feats and a fairly specific RP requirement. It doesn't advance bardic music, and the skill requirements are tough for a Wizard to meet, much less a Cleric or Sorcerer, without a dip. So it's a full-casting PrC that has a fairly heavy feat tax for a non-Bard1, and is probably worse than continuing as a Bard. So I'd consider that a non-viable full-casting PrC.

So here's an edit to the original question: Which casting PrCs have such terrible entry requirements that they'd continue to be unviable?

1: For a Cleric to enter by level 10, for instance, you'd need to get Perform and Knowledge (Local) on your skill list. So maybe the Knowledge domain and Apprentice (Entertainer). And probably 2 skill points/level isn't going to cut it. It's easier with Cloistered Cleric, of course, but still tight.

[Morbis Meh]

Shadowcraft Mage is all you ever need for an aspiring Gnome Illusionist with visions of World Domination :smallbiggrin:

Also Anima Mage is a godsend, you really only need to lose a single caster level from pre reqs and the class is as good as incantrix due to free metamagic 3/day (can anyone say persistent spell ftw?)

[Forrestfire]

Entropomancer, for me. It's such a cool class! Gets gravity things, void magic, and the ability to control spheres of annihilation!

Then you read the casting progression and learn that it's a 5/10 caster on a PrC requiring 4th-level spells :smallfrown: